if US does care about costs why it won't switch to 230V@50Hz like a normal first world country?
>less copper used
>2 times lower resistance
>no need to use split phase bullshit
>money made by selling new outlets and RCDs
>compatibile with Euro/chinese equipment
oh and don't get me on
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Fuck you, that's why
Short term profits > Long term profits.
Americans units are made according to EUs
this.
If you're an idiot, yeah
Because most people would rather cling to traditions and habits than accept change, even if it's for the better. Also, costs. Because again, people are too afraid of huge short-term investments to be persuaded by even the largest long-term payoff. Thank fucking god Europe got it right from the start!
In a predictable non-changing world, long term profits are better.
In an uncertain fast-changing world, short term profits are better, you reap the benefits before the situation changes and fuck up your long term plan.
If you think the future is predictable, then you're an idiot.
Governments are supposed to plan for the future, whether it's predictable or not
>Governments are supposed to
>Americans
>Trusting government
>Making sane choices about government
Good joke user.
I know, that's why their infrastructure is shit
Picrelated is Gold Standard.
Governments are pretty short-termist in all countries that vaguely resemble democracies, because elections happen every few years, and not many politicians want to vote for pain now to get gain 30 years from now, since in three years they can be voted out for it in favor of someone who'll roll back the change.
Because it wouldn't be worth the effort at this point.
The benefits wouldn't outweigh the positives, their networks are mostly private run (who hate change) and the government doesn't have enough stability to phase in changes in the long term.
And all that copper? It's already installed. A 50% saving in the long term is no use if you are replacing copper which could last another 50 years to achieve it.
You'd have to uninstall nearly all of it to change to 230v 60Hz (you wouldn't go to 50Hz because frequency is much harder to change than voltage).
You can't just double the voltage along a conductor. It needs to meet separation standards for safety.
If I was rolling out the network from scratch? Sure. But they aren't. America is almost completely electrified, and has been for many decades.
PS:
If you want to see real retardation though, look at Japan.
They have two separate power grids of 100v. One at 50Hz and one at 60Hz.
With the tsunami taking out a bunch of infrastructure, they recently had surplus power in the 60Hz grid and shortages in the 50Hz one.
They also don't earth or polarise anything.
I'd argue that Japan has the worst designed electrical network in the world.
>Governments are pretty short-termist in all countries that vaguely resemble democracies
They haven't always been, and them being short termist for a few years now is the reason we're in such deep shit
>playing video games at 50hz
>wanting to use euro/chinese trash equipment
>muh 15% efficiency
America will invent a new standard that is far better than anything yurop/china has and the rest of the world will follow us as usual.
that's the most retarded post I've read today
Because Americans are dumb. They don't even ground their plugs
Burgers.
>thank God Europe had a chance to rebuild everything after they managed to destroy each other's economy and infrastructure during WW2
>USA
>Inventing
Good one.
Every invention that mattered has either been Scandinavian, European or Asian, or Any of the previous, that just happen to be stationed on foul US soil while inventing the thing.
Oh wait, there's one thing USA have invented.
Lobbying.
Better to silence the better solution by "voting" it out of the competition with money.
It's a conspiracy
Oh, don't mind me, i'm just the master race coming through
>playing video games at 50hz
Video Games haven't been 50Hz in Europe for more than a decade.
And when they were? That was a result of lazy publishing rather than anything technical.
Games did exist at normal speeds, but most didn't bother doing proper conversions.
>America will invent a new standard
What? Like with HD Radio?
Enjoy paying your zillion dollar royalties per-receiver.
The European DAB standard has already become completely free to implement (freedom AND beer).
This is almost a universal thing, too. Americans hate open standards.
Americans don't hate open standards; their legislators, marketers and Jews hate open standards because they can't make as much, if any, money from it.
Europe used to be 220v, but slowly creeped up to 240v for the same reason. the timescale (decades) allowed for devices that couldn't handle the increased voltage to break down without raising a suspicion.
Sometimes it's closer to 250v where I live. I think they want to push it to 260v eventually because switching converters still work fine at that point
Can't do that with 110-220v without raising suspicion son.
Perhaps the most retarded thing in the world was the choice to go for AC
Sure it made more sense back in the day because DC was difficult to turn into HV..
but nowadays 99% of everything is DC and fucking everything needs an adaptor. The power wasted in the billions of adaptors is enough to power whole countries
You think high-voltage transmission is still impossible in DC? Almost all ultra-high voltage transportation lines are DC, whereas more local transportation is in AC due to lower investment (but higher losses to heat)
en.wikipedia.org
Why not give 380V to conumers as Russia does?
So you can use industial tools, charge your car etc.
Install three phase power. In Aus that's your basic upgrades from 240V.
10amp then three phase.
3-phase AC is already a thing in homes built after ~1980 in most European countries. Lots of people use 15-20kW induction cooking sets. Try doing that in 120v USA
>AC - tesla
>DC - edison
tesla won due to long distance transmission efficiency plus his amazing electric motor for performing actual work.
Nowadays
DC: Batteries, simple conversion, energy efficient, literally every household device
AC: Power conversion factor, switching noise & losses, only used for short-distance transmission, literally nothing doesn't work on DC
DC won. face it. AC is kept because of compatibility.
Only retards complain about AC/DC. Compared to modern switching power supplies, your mains AC is dogshit slow. Everything needs an adapter because of safety. Look up IEC 61140.
Switching adapters are also nearly 100% efficient. You know when converters are inefficient? When you buy cheap chink shit. You're also likely to kill yourself because China doesn't care if their consumers die from bad QA.
Long-distance transmission AC wons.
>Lobbying
I never understood how is this different from bribe.
SEV1011 (in an older revision)? Only close to master race.
IEC 60906-1 is the current master race.
One is without any demand. Meaning there's no obligation to go forth with their wants.
Give money to a security guard to get backstage, and he just takes your money and fucks off. You lobbied to go back stage.
But in the political world, that guard would end up committing suicide by shooting himself in the back.
>Switching adapters are also nearly 100% efficient
a GOOD approved adaptor is 80-90% efficient with standby power losses. Tons of knockoffs out there causing housefires.
Face it, DC is superior in any way :)
>pic
>Behind the scenes: How the debian logo was designed
DC still needs to be down-converted so you're still wasting power.
Will 230v work with 240v 60hz electric car charger
>Face it, DC is superior in any way :)
VOLTAGE DROP
50hz
top kek
Japan/Korea all use 60hz. Only Yurotrash and 3rd world countries use 50hz.
I wonder how many engineers died on the inside when they saw how people treated the seat cleaning toilet they created.
yes
you mean ZEN logo
heavier gauges and there is no drop
it would be so much easier
just having straight 5,6,9,12,15V DC jacks on your wall outlet
less space taken up
>arbitrary scale for when water freezes
???
Fuck off. A German used alcohol for the 32/212 scale.
Now Germans are cucked into base 10.
Base 10 is for limited morons.
>bu-bu-but user, base 10 is by tens
Base 12 is superior due to factors.
Everybody on earth understands base 60.
>muh computer converts bases for me so i don't have to exercise the gray matter
Your computer CANNOT calculate 0.1
>obvious reply is 1/10 calc screenshot
No, factually 0.1 is impossible in binary.
>heavier gauges and there is no drop
Going to cost more then running ac
There is always drop. You'll need half-inch thick wire for that 5V circuit just inside your house to keep the voltage drop reasonable.
You will need to run HVDC inside your walls to reduce losses while keeping your wire thicknesses reasonable. Then you'll need to use switching regulators to step-down the HVDC to reasonable levels close to the point of usage. Oh wait, switching regulators convert DC to AC in order to change voltages. Might as well stick with AC.
lol what does that have to do with anything
To switch to 240V we'll have to replace the outlets first which will not happen immediately, it will take decades. It's easier to keep 120V than it is to replace and the long term savings aren't really worth jackshit desu. 120V is only used for the stretch between the house and the utility pole anyway.
It means you're wrong
>Japan/Korea all use 60hz
How's it like being retarded?
>2017
>no IEC sockets on the walls instead
A lot.
Heavier gauges would mean we would need to install two or three poles for every pole we have now.
The cost of the network itself would be, at a minimum, 3x higher.
It would be more cost effective to just install AC to DC converters in every home and keep the existing network.
Half of Japan uses 50Hz, half uses 60Hz.
240v/50hz master race
The frequency is just how fast the generator runs/switches between poles at, higher speed generators generate 60Hz while Euros run lower speed generators for their 50Hz. I believe higher frequencies are supposed to be better anyway because it allows you to use smaller transformers.
>Americans units are made according to EUs
Fuck you're retarded. There's no such thing as EU units.
What you probably meant to say if you weren't so stupid was that imperial units are defined in terms of SI units.
Generators typically spin at:
1500/3000 for 50Hz
1800/3600 for 60Hz
The excitor or collector at the end of the steam/gas turbine train does all the heavy lifting.
>Americans
>imperial
The US uses US customary units
Natural equivalents are "imperial" based. The SI unit uses these natural equivalents to not totally fuck over everything, in a roundabout way of paraphrasing.
Best socket ever t b h
>>money made by selling new outlets
Broken window fallacy.
>and RCDs
Most homes already have them. Either in the panel or down the circuit. What we really need is to replace older non-GFCI circuit breakers with AFCIs to mitigate house fires caused by arcs but that doesn't require changing the power grid as a whole.
So its like comparing a suicide bomber and a remote bomber, still fucks up those that are in the area.
Using money to bypass a human votes value in voting is the opposite of what a voting system is meant for.
Not only that but USA is so behind that they don't even demand a unique valid ID for every single vote.
>>less copper used
times lower resistance
This isn't possible.
You can't have thinner wires and less resistance. Thinner wires + higher voltage = way more heat due to resistance
Nah
>They also don't earth or polarise anything.
The earth ground goes to the same place as regular ground, having the third prong doesn't really do much outside of dropping power tools with metal cases (which haven't been made for decades) in water.
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
>USA is so behind that they don't even demand a unique valid ID for every single vote
No so much that as a massive population with no mandatory vote allowing people to rig much easier due to uncertain counts.
But yes, money being counted as a valid form of free speech is bullshit, as it gives undue weight.
this plug is shit and you should feel bad
>designed from the start to be safe
>can't even transmit power until ground connection is made
>each plug individually fused so you don't blow the whole circuit and have to go to the RCD (or replace the fuse back in the day)
>solid metal prongs, none of this bendy shit
>very user servicable
>literally hasn't needed to be developed with extra shit over the years
>(you wouldn't go to 50Hz because frequency is much harder to change than voltage
Can you explain to a normie why?
>>designed from the start to be safe
not an argument
>>can't even transmit power until ground connection is made
also the case with schuko
>>each plug individually fused so you don't blow the whole circuit and have to go to the RCD (or replace the fuse back in the day)
Making it unnecessarily expensive, there's absolutely no reason to have a fuse in your plug
>>solid metal prongs, none of this bendy shit
Same with schuko
>>very user servicable
When would you ever need to service a plug if you don't have a dumb fuse in it
>>literally hasn't needed to be developed with extra shit over the years
not an argument
On top of that, it's bulky and doesn't have a recessed socket like schuko does
No one uses 120v single phase for proper induction stoves. And natural gas is better anyway
US doesn't even have 110V@60Hz everywhere.
Are you fucking retarded? You can innovate and undertake projects whilst maintaining a blended risk mix. It's the entire point of the the discipline of capital financing. Go read a book.
>socket isn't even recessed
lol
...
You're literally retarded
Try using your computer without an earth right after you get out of the shower
What the hell 60513863?
That dude was spot on.
You are the retarded one.
Name one falsehood in 60513144.
You can't
>Why not give 380V to conumers as Russia does?
Many places in Europe do that.
Usually the places where DIY hasn't devolved to "100+1 rubber band life hacks."
DC is better. The ONLY benefit AC currently has is the ability to use transformers in an efficient way, and even that is threatened by modern DC converters.
Millions of dollars in replacing infrastructure
We tried that, but people were fooled into thinking it was racist
Too bulky
There's a case to be made for 230v, but 50hz is potato tier.
Really though the wires are already sized and rated in buildings for 120 split phase and the benefits don't outweigh the cost of certification of all us buildings for 230.
Final voltage doesn't matter on the utility end beyond final transformer by the customer's location.
Also, if we were to switch to 230v/240v we should keep the split phase for easy 480v single phase large appliances.
/thread
As an eurofag, I love Schuko
Because voting isn't easy like TV?
>Natural equivalents are "imperial" based.
That is completely incorrect.
>The SI unit uses these natural equivalents to not totally fuck over everything, in a roundabout way of paraphrasing.
That is completely incorrect.
SI units were never "natural" in any physics sense. A "natural" unit would be something like the mass of a proton. Instead, all the SI units were originally based on arbitrary, unstable things. The meter was originally selected based on the distance from the equator to the north pole, which had no hope of any reasonable accuracy because of the fact that the earth is not perfectly spherical -- so they had to later redefine the meter as another arbitrary constant. The kilogram was originally based on the meter (itself arbitrary) and water, but it later had to be redefined based on an artificial prototype. The second was eventually based on the meter and the speed of light -- so again, it's defined in terms of the arbitrary meter. The only unit that even comes close to "natural" is the kelvin, and that's only because it was introduced later when they started understanding how important it is to base units on stable natural phenomena.
Most imperial units are now officially based on the SI units. One inch is now exactly 2.540000... cm, where the "..." means that the series of 0 digits continues without end. I.e.: You can't define the inch without first defining the meter. That conclusively shows which is based on which.
Because most imperial units are based on the SI units, the imperial units also inherit all the arbitrary constants of the SI units.
And even historically, the imperial units were never based on any well-defined natural physical phenomenon. The "foot" was originally conceived as something that was "about the length of a foot" -- how is that any more "natural" than how the meter was originally defined? Is a foot somehow more "natural" than the distance from the equator to the north pole?
I always crack up at the temperature one.
>logical scale at which zero is the base level
>base level
As someone who uses Celcius daily, that does make sense intuitively, but it has absolutely no place being in an actual comparison picture.
The only scales that use a "logical base level" as zero are Kelvin and Rankine.
freezing point of water at sea level
Are you retarded?
Those reasons are either incorrect or irrelevant.
youtube.com
e.g. Video games on your 50hz systems were slower than 60hz in the US.
literally one country in the world that uses it
Whereas the German plug is used by dozens. Get fucked.
because that would require people to invest time and money with potential downtime to actually do something which means it's a nonstarter instead of just wasting that same money keeping shit running with minimal downtime.
>United Kingdom, Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong
yea, looks like one country to me
>Not only that but USA is so behind that they don't even demand a unique valid ID for every single vote.
that should be left up to the states to decide not the federal government
all laptop computers have no earth connection. what's your point?
>not using 220V@120Hz
Not true. Quite a few do.