Redpill me on surface products. Are they actually that bad?

Redpill me on surface products. Are they actually that bad?

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Yes.

They're overdesigned like apple products and they actually manage to have worse specs than even the shittiest 2017 macbooks.

They really should have went all in and obliterated apple at their own game instead of trying to play "industrial design company" like sony did back in the early 2000s.

Looking at how much the price increase as you upgrade the hardware and the massive number of older surfaces you can find on sale at ridiculous prices: they're definitely bad. Almost everyone I met with one regretted buying it. Don't fall for the meme OP.

They're nice products, but they have their issues. I would only get the Surface Tablet series, not anything else. Everything else is OK at best, also for some reason Microsoft refuses to get with the times and use USB C.

Very solid construction and quality but for good specs you have to clean out your wallet.

From a hardware stand of point, they're actually pretty good.

The bad part is that they've always been notoriously riddled with bugs. Says a lot about Microsoft if they can't even optimise their own os for their own hardware.

I'm going to get either the new one or that HP knockoff.

I have a tablet I use to draw / write / read on but it's not very good. I also need a windows laptop and I want something very lightweight.

So I'm sold on the form factor I just need the right implementation.

The Surface power management schema is glitchy as FUCK. So many times I have seen my own or my mom's SP3 not wake from sleep or have the type cover stop responding after sleep. I read about fixing it and saw that it's an extremely common problem across all models. Other times I've closed mine up and put it in its bag and it didn't go to sleep, just overheated. Several times now, Microsoft has released bad driver / firmware updates (some of which were recalled) that do things like break large sections of the touch screen or reintroduce this infamous "sleep of death" issue after you've previously fixed it. The surface pen driver, for instance.

The hardware is high quality but MS can't into drivers

Canada's prices for them are fucking ridiculous.

>SP3

Found your problem.

People have the same wake-from-sleep issues with the SP4 and Surface Book

costly, can't clean dust inside

I have an SP3, it's great, but bugs in Windows 10 keep it from being a recommended buy.

Hardware is great if you get the SP4 keyboard and pen.

The Tablets are OK. The SP4 enhanced the thermal assembly for cooling (i7 is not worth it in SP3 at all) and had a better pen/type cover (bought separately). I think it's criminal that the SP5 doesn't come with a pen. The tablet kind of sucks to actually use on your lap though, don't recommend for travel.

The rest are overpriced as fuck and you're better off getting something else.

Battery bug on SP3 was hugely annoying but finally fixed. It is sad that MS can't seem to avoid these issues. And no idea why they use Marvell wifi chipsets over intel.

They decreased the base price to compensate for no longer being forced to buy the pen.

The base prices were never accurate to begin with accounting for microsoft discounting and bundles at authorized retail/online stores. It's cosmetic, as is adding Kaby Lake. Getting rid of the fan on the i5 model is a disservice IMO, I predict a lot more thermal throttling issues. Laptops with fans and similar thermals struggle. My SP3 has a fan and has thermal throttling too.

If Microsoft is going to term it a tablet that can replace a laptop, you can cut the pen (if you say it's for creative types/handwriters) or the keyboard (if you say it's primarily a tablet). Cutting both useful input devices from the base cost is disingenuous at best when you're saying it's a laptop replacement.

>Are they actually that bad?
they're fucking garbage

I mean, you're just making an additional purchase at the same net cost. At least now you have a choice of whether or not you want the pen.

Not bad, just expensive.
They're going for the apple customers, people who are willing to spend a lot of money for something shiny.
Unlike apple, their products aren't that good, though. Much too focused on gimmicks. 3:2 resolution is god tier, though.

> Much too focused on gimmicks.
>touchbar
?????

Ah yes. I forgot how terrible the 2016 macbook was. Sorry. I still use my 2015 one which was perfect.

Shame they not only had to ruin it but also make it more expensive.

Like Macs but without the benefits of a good OS.

overpriced
t. surfacebook owner who bough the second highest version.

They're not cheap. I bought the lowest spec SP4 after they knocked 15% off the price so I don't feel particularly ripped off, but I can imagine the higher spec ones being eyewatering.

No problems with it so far. One thing to bear in mind with people reporting bugs with Windows 10 is that they are updating the OS regularly so some people may be reporting issues that have been fixed. My only real complaint is the battery life not being particularly good, I'd say with normal internet browsing or writing a document you could get 4 hours max out of it if you have it on power saver with brightness at min. I'm not too bothered now but I can see it being a problem once I've had it for a while and the battery life has deteriorated.

On the whole though I'm quite happy with it and don't regret my purchase.

The Surface Book is insanely good, feels great to write on, type on, and use for presentations with annotations.

It's also insanely expensive.

Does the surface monitor thing take different inputs?

The Studio is an AIO like the iMac, it does not take external outputs for the monitor(even though people have been clamouring for MS to release such a product since it would allow them to run it with a more powerful machine).

Also did I mention it starts at $2999?

if you have oodles of money and dont mind using it as a secondary pc then go for it, otherwise there are better things that offer more value for money

Hardware is great.
Windows 10 is a problem.

4 hours max battery life? WTF???

my Dell XPS13 is over a year old and I am still getting 7-8 hours of watching japanese cartoons and shitposting on G.....

That's really just an estimate, I haven't put it through proper continuous use yet to gauge.

At the moment I've been using it for about an hour and it's only gone down 14% with power saver on so maybe 4 hours is a bit pessimistic.

I get ~6-7 hours on my SP4 with browsing, notetaking in OneNote and Drawboard PDF, TeXStudio and occasionaly some Matlab.

>2016 hardware is more outdated than 2017 hardware.

Woah.

Windows 10 is great.
Hardware is a problem.

That seems off. I get better on my SP2

Hahahaha, and here I am bought pro 2 for 250 euro and had it swapped for pro 4, best, fucking, purchase, ever!

I get around 14 on my surface book

Their imac clone is really overprices and underpowered and outdated at launch.

the laptops are just normal ultrabooks.

the tablets are good for tablets but still tablets.

none of them makes much sense if you're not someone who DRAWS a lot on the go. Handwritten notes is a meme.

I have an SP4 base model, got it on sale with a free keyboard. Would never pay full price. Otherwise, I really like it. The tablet/laptop transformation is neat and useful, is powerful enough for basic Photoshop and OneNote really shines for work. Base model has no fan and is silent. Needs a cloth as fingerprints get really noticeable.

>Redpill me
literally the equivalent of ELI5

Surface throttling is a piece of shit though and the reason I no longer use it. But if all you do is waste your life browsing the Internet and watching YouTube on Windows it really is the perfect device for casuals.

Hey, time you enjoy isn't time wasted.

Yes it is

Surface Laptop is laughable.
Surface is shit.
Surface Pro is just above acceptable.
Surface Studio is unnecessary.
Surface Book is worth the money.

>you can find on sale for ridiculous prices
In what way? Cheap or absurdly expensive?

I don't see it being worth the money unless you really want the pen, and I'm skeptical with how useful that really is for the cost.

>Surface Book is worth the money.
even if it had latest gen processor, why? $1500 starting is worth the money?

>even if it had latest gen processor, why? $1500 starting is worth the money?
whoops. for some reason I remember it being less.
never mind. entire surface line is a joke.

they're all better than macs

in every single "why this thing is awesome" marketing slide they feature the pen, its a cash grab

You remember it being less because it IS less. The guy you're replying to is full of shit. The starting price isn't $1500.

>The starting price isn't $1500.
microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/surface-book/8txj08q9lxdt/90L2

Does that not say $1499 for the i5, 128GB SSD, 8 gig RAM model? Is there something even lower specced than that?

Best buy and everyone else usually has these prices for $200-300 less.

I have 2 surface books (3 including the one I was given for work)

here's my honest review:

Surface's Overall (incl. experience with pro 3 in the past)

>Great screens (occasionally annoying screen bleeding in some models) but awesome colors and great resolutions
>battery life is always half as promised
>Pen is terrific for editing pictures and drawing
>photoshop runs great even on i3 model SP3
>speakers meh
>build quality is great on screens but occasional scratches and dings on outside
>surface connector is amazing
>windows hello cameras are very convenient
>front camera is very sharp
>back camera can be used to scan documents (dope)
>gestures from trackpad are great
>included surface app has customization options
>backlight on keyboard is meh but they keyboard travel is by far the best ive typed on
>updates to windows come first on surfaces
>you can find all sorts of accessories for these devices
>portable chargers available
>fast ssd's
>light & thin
>windows 10 pro (without bloatware)
>bitlocker & remote access built in


i5/8gb/128gb
>battery life around 7 hours (wish I had more)
>fan and cooling not much of a big deal here
>i5 is actually pretty good and runs photoshop, premiere pro no real issue
>snappy


i7/16gb/512gb w DGPU
>same great beautiful screen
>fan kinda loud at times
>batterylife around 5 hours (extreme usage)
>adobe premiere pro runs better
>annoying when you cant detach when running something that's using the GPU before closing out (switching graphics cards)
>warm to hot at times

they aren't for anyone but I cant justify spending the same amount to get something like a MacBook with far less features.

But which do you like the most

Apple just needs to go ahead and steal Panay away from Microsoft, he's too good a speaker to remain at Microsoft, honestly.

I wonder how he'd fit in at Apple, could be interesting.

He's wasting away at Microsoft, seriously.

Please write it as Sup Forums

so they can make him push apple watches and memebooks?

surface book i5 is the sweet spot

hey remember we're supposed to say that we're microsoft employees when posting reviews, its part of the practices guidelines!

Great product at probably 50% off

oh shit I got hired at Microsoft?!!! my paycheck says otherwise...

yea I'm sure he wouldn't be wasting anything at apple

>>speakers meh
this sums up literally every cellphone and tablet ever manufactured outside of the Nexus 6, Nexus 6P, and some of the HTC ones.

I still see nothing wrong with that case.
Everything else is terrible but that case is really beautiful to me. I like it better than the curved ladybug shape of other battery cases.

I also like my iPhone with a tumor

this is a realistic estimate.

Agreed, build is amazing. Won a Surface 3 at a work roadshow. Full of bugs though, I reckon it's refurbished too.

>getting portable electronics that aren't high end phones

>current year

Lemme guess you want to game on one

I've had three surface pro's, two 2s and one 3. Fans were loud, especially on 3. I'd say that n-trig is shittier than pro 1/2's wacom.. surface's warranty is top notch. Screens were quite alright. However if you broke something you couldnt fix them yourself, at all. Two of my surface pros broke within warranty period, sold the third before warranty ran out.

Switched to lenovo thinkpad yoga and paid $1500 for it. I'm regretting my choice currently, gonna get either dell xps or razer blade next.

the yoga 260, the 1st gen?

the BIOS and driver updates help a lot with the thermal throttling and the onelink+ dock is absolutely incredible with mine.

My SP3 is the best product i ever bought.

I am probably going to be buying a surface to take to clients houses since it is ultra portable and I really like the build quality on it. I'll be buying the new one when it comes out. How much can I truly do with an M3 processor? Battery life is important to me.

Tablet series is only barely worth. That being said I have a SP4 and enjoy it immensely, so if you got the spare cash go for it

Thanks, but my problems are with the hardware. My screen vibrates when cold starting it and both mouses quit working occasionally. I sent it for RMA a month ago, they shipped it back a week ago with a note which said that the unit was returned unrepaired.

I'm pretty fucking pissed, my case is pending at lenovo support.

Oh yeah and I have the actual first gen thinkpad yoga as well, with 4600u cpu. It has ghosting issues with screen.

Didnt learn from that, bought a brand new 260 with 6500u and upgraded ram to 16GiB (virtualization use).

Gonna go with dell next.

Complain to the attorney general in NC (Lenovo US HQ is there)
ncdoj.gov/Consumer/2-2-12-File-a-Complaint.aspx

and your own state attorney general's office

might take a couple weeks but it'll go to someone that gives a shit

I'm sadly yuropoor and their eu support is in some slavic country whose name I dont even recall.

the mouse issue may be driver related, they put out an update in mid-april. the prior driver version wasn't handling s3/s4 power states correctly.

In regards to the screen, that's definitely hardware.

EU consumer protection law is pretty proconsumer, you might be able to get all your money back
europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

I dual boot linux and windows, mouse freezes with both.

Thing is though that I bought the laptop for my own tiny company which probably shuts out any consumer protection laws. I already went on for over two weeks without a laptop during one of my client's project and it was really awkward.

I'm going to wait for a while for the support manager to get back to me and then consider my options.

Thanks, user.

Essentially the apple devices of the MS world with all the good and bad things that come with that.
They're pretty well built, the tech is mature enough. Design is a subjective thing so you might like it, or you might not.

They play nice with my desktop and xbox and that is a huge selling point for me since the whole "one ecosystem" thing has been pretty solid since 8.1, but your use-case might vary.

In general they are good at what they're made for, and nicely built, but come at a steep price and no USB type C for at least a year more.

I am actually wondering how powerful the m3 version would be. What is the use case for that version