Why don't other MENA countries accept kemalism...

Why don't other MENA countries accept kemalism? It's actually a great decision of most of problems for all MENA countries (and many 2nd/3rd world countries at all). I am a very big admirer of Ataturk. That guy took half-feudal state immersed in barbarism and created the most successful state of MENA without oil cheats and shit.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world
youtube.com/watch?v=4m_15G4-ics
youtube.com/watch?v=Eo9ErQdZH-o
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Wahhabi_War
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Well, maybe such a strict nationalism is disputable (and that didn't worked on 100% for Turkey, look at Kurds) but the other points are great.

чтo?

>Secularism
no thanks

Islam and sharia inshallah

you know nothing about here go away

Silence filthy infidel

...

mustafa kemal's ideology was basically secular dialectician turkish nationalism familia why would the arabs embrace it? it is also a very anti-arab ideology;
>islam created by an immoral arabs religious views is dead. Perhaps it suited the needs of some desert nomads but it does not fit the needs of a developing modern nation. A ruler who needs religion is a coward and no coward should rule. -Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Grey Wolf by H.C.Armstrong
also it worked for kurds until they started to get funded by the bloody soviets

arabs used to have their own socialist nationalist thing going on but it was replaced by the current systems

They're Turkish citizens protected by the constitution.
Ataturkish natioanalism is their best option.

Dude, of course they could use it replacing Turkish nationalism with Arabic.
>Lybia
How does it feel there now?
Ataturk was secularist, but not an atheist. He saw religion as a way of preserving traditional values, he just wanted to divide it from state so the religion wouldn't hold back the development and would just give spiritual life for citizens.

The best system of government for the especially ethnic and religiously diverse Arab states would be a monarchy, nationalism can't survive when they are so many different nationalities.

Not really. They can force "citizen nationalism" like Putin does here. Or government can forcibly convert minorities to a branch of Islam they want, change religion is way easier than ethnicity. And they don't really have many nationalities, they are mostly Arabs, ethnic minorities are pretty irrelevant there except some states like Syria or Algeria.

Islam inside the Arab realm is already their nationalism, that's pretty much how they came to be. What are they supposed to build on if you deprive them of their complete core structure?

t. I know nothing about MENA
It was not like that even in Middle Ages.
Of course Arabs are not nationalists of artificial states with artificial borders but they consider themselves Arabs first, not "just Muslims". Arab nationalism is pretty strong and has old roots. You should learn more about it.
>What are they supposed to build on if you deprive them of their complete core structure?
No one would deprive them of their Arab nationality.

Arab national identity outside of the Arabian peninsula spread with islam during the Abbasid caliphate.
It's symbiotic in their case.

M8, idk, google arab rebellion, google arab nationalism. Islam is a part of it as a religious part of nation, but it's not primal and main thing. Most of infighting inside Arabs is fight of nationalists with islamists because the latter reject concept of nationality at all.

>Definition of the Arab nation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world

These are all muslim and Arab speaking nations due to the simultaneous expansion of islam and the Arab language/ culture in the respective areas. It one bundle.

No. You judge by the last 30 years when people in MENA became disappointed in communism and nationalism and leaned to Islamism. Now Islamism is going to die: see the Egypt rejected Mursi, Algeria destroyed Al Quaeda in late 90s, Tunisia electing liberals. I guess after fall of ISIS Arabs would lean to nationalism again because Islam is proved itself total shit.

>Islam
Islamism
Fix
Of course it is. Don't mix secularism with atheism. Arabs could keep Islam as religious basis of nation. Even founder of Baath who was Christian admitted it. But the idea of kemalism is dividing state and religion fully and putting religion under control of the state and eradicating religious influence in politics.

Do you somehow equate islam with terrorism?
So you say their complete Arab history was terrorism?

>a non-Arab who actually knows something about the Middle-East

impressed desu

because they are retarded savages in thrall to a backwards and barbaric religious cult

It's historically factual that the Arab nation emerged out of the spread of islam (no need to argue against reality),
this doesn't deny them of building secular states.

I say the opposite. Is my English really so poor?
This. There is nothing thwarting Arabs from building kemalism in their states. Ataturk didn't forbidded religion, he just constrained it outside of politics.

>this
That's what I was saying throughout the whole thread.
It's simply not Kemalism since the Arab nation is pretty much synonymous with islam historically and inside their borders... now what do you want to replace it with in order to call such a model viable?

Fuck. They still have very strong Arab identity which includes Islam as religion. Turks had strong Turk identity including islam as religion too. What's wrong? It's even easier for Arabs, there are many arab Christians and it's 2016, it was 1925 for Ataturk and 100% Sunnis.

What you're saying isn't correct but nm.

Islam is the main cultural resource and historical factum of the Arabs, you would want to ask yourself wether you want to strip it off and leave them with cultures they have no vital connection to, or if some kind of reformation of their islamic views, their relation to how they treat their religion should change.

The latter of course requires more effort but also might bear the more sophisticated results and is simply more honest.

The latter is what Ataturk did and what I was talking about.

Islam is the main source of the Arab nation and the Quran is the main source of islam (not coincidentally the Quran is written in Arab, which is really a closed circle).

I don't see the connection and that's really not what Ataturk did.
He stripped Turkey of its muslim influence and strengthened essentially Turkic identity.

>He stripped Turkey of its muslim influence
He left Islam as a spiritual basis of society while dividing it from political life of the state.

No.
Most people had only very poor understanding of islam anyway.
There's a gigantic book and several other sources stating his views.

You can really stop now.

Because religion is the closest thing they have to an identity. People still define themselves in the MENA by way of sectarian lines rather than national identity. Keep in mind that a lot of these are deeply tribal societies.

They're uneducable my teacher.

HE was quite a talented guy, I have to agree.

bunun kaynagi ney?

"Bizim dinimiz en tabii ve mâkul dindir. Ve ancak bundan dolayıdır ki son din olmuştur. Bir dînin tabii olmasi için akla, fenne, ilme ve mantığa uygun olması lâzımdır. Bizim dînimiz bunlara tamamen uygundur."

Efendiler, bütün insanlığın görgü, bilgi ve düşüncede yükselip olgunlaşması, Hristiyanlığı, Müslümanlığı, Budizmi bir yana bırakarak basitleştirilmiş ve herkes için anlaşılacak duruma getirilmiş saf ve lekesiz bir dünya dininin kurulması ve insanların, şimdiye kadar kavgalar, çirkeflikler, kaba istek ve iştahlar arasında bir sefalethanede yaşamakta olduklarını kabul ederek, bütün vücutları ve zekâları zehirleyen zararlı tohumları yok etmeye karar vermesi gibi şartların gerçekleşmesini gerektiren «birleşik bir dünya devleti» kurma hayalinin tatlı olduğunu inkâr edecek değiliz.

Pic is suitable for Abrahamic religions but it's bullshit for Indian and Chinese ones.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DELETE THIS PHOTO

this looks like something I'd see on /r/bad_religion

>closest thing they have to an identity
No one cared about religion that much among Arabs even 50 years ago. Rise of political islam happened after fail in 6 day war and fail of secular governments in MENA. Arab nationalism was predominant ideology in arab world in 1850-1970. And political islam is going to be ruined in a next decade so they can go back to nationalism and accept kemalism.

Why?

don't look her eyes

it's a /tr/ meme "don't look at his eyes! he is satan!" etc

arabs can't be tamed, you can only buy them and do/think stuff

churka? or just a well educated rusky? it surprises me how much you know about that region but here we come to meme hard

what is the point in being kemalist if you elect that akp faggot who turns your country into iran 2.0?

prize Tengri mothefucker

ok i will tell somekind of backstory so listen.
the foreign people can hardly understand why turks elected an islamist authoritarian while worshipping ataturk unless you lived through in 1970-2000 in turkey.
people voted for a right-wing islamist because kemalism failed in turkey. the only thing kemalism created is a weird three-way aristocracy that included military, bureaucracy and rich.
this is not always worked like clockwork because leftists, kurds always rioted and political parties couldn't handle it most times. because of these there are total of 5 military interventions in republic of turkey history (2 coups, 3 memorandums).
kemalism continued to work until collapse of ussr. after the collapse of communism the world started to be globalized and this globalization meant that no more pseudo democracy. and since there was no evil empire nato withdraw all of their support in military and turkish bureaucracy.
this made aristocratic rich even more powerful and they start to dominate the country. this trend continued until 2010-2011 when akp finally got the power it needed to create their own aristocratic bureaucracy.
but how akp got elected? long story short aristocratic republic stopped educating it's own people around 50s. and since people are tend to be more retarded because of islam they got uneducated and this lead to akp in parliament.

so please next time if you are going to shill kemalism please don't. it is outdated ideology that not even backed by ataturk himself.

>Don't sell alcohol
Absolutely disgusting
Actually that pic is what I am talking about: so called Islamic revival turned MENA into full shithole. Kemalism (they could call it nasserism or so) could restore them.
>well educated rusky
This. Interested in MENA since Alladin cartoon and Syrian qt I dated. Also churkas know about MENA as much as Russians, they are not from MENA, but from Caucasus or Middle Asia.
That's a temporary problem and I understand you very good: Erdogan and Putin are political twins. Putin became as a breaker of Yelstyn system who installed his own elites. But as far as I believe that after Putin we will be civilized state again, I believe the same about Turkey. The main thing here is economy. Ataturk has created industry and it has created economy and economy always defines culture. It's impossible for Turkey to become Ottoman Empire again because of your economy.

yea there is a saying in country russians are orthodox turks.
our fates always somewhat similar

>russians are orthodox turks
In a some grade. Both countries are westernized non-Europeans with Byzantium heritage. We have also bug Turkish admixture and you have pretty big Slav admixture (slavery, Balkans).

>you will never live to see a secularized arab world
sucks tbqh, really wish pan-arab nationalism took off
youtube.com/watch?v=4m_15G4-ics

Just make sure that America doesn't get desecularized by this low-life scum.

youtube.com/watch?v=Eo9ErQdZH-o

>because leftists, kurds always rioted

So Kemalism would work if you crack down on commis while giving the kurds their state and ignore them after that?

blame eternal anglo, we were doing fine.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Wahhabi_War

>giving your clay because a minority is chimping out
>giving your clay like you are a charity

euros are brainwashed in every aspect

>1818, an Egyptian army led by Ibrahim Pasha (Mohammad Ali's son) completely destroyed Abdullah's forces and took their capital, Diriyah in Najd. Abdullah bin Saud was captured along with two of his Wahhabi supporters. They were then sent to prison in Constantinople. Abdullah and his two followers were publicly beheaded for their crimes against holy cities and mosques. Prior to his execution, bin Saud, a Wahhabi who was forbidden to listen to music, was forced to listen to the lute.

quality bantz tbqh :DDD

>lute
Not bad.

im bored pls help

>Tunisia electing liberals
Rip Tunisia
Liberals are just fucking terrorists wearing masks