Computer functions are just 0s and 1s that send messages

>Computer functions are just 0s and 1s that send messages
>Brain functions are just neurons going on and off that send messages

What separates computers from organic life?

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The botnet.

also galko a best gril

The chosen ones don't entirely control organic life yet.

We can choose which neurons go on while computer systems don't have the power to change their state on their own

nothing

in the future people will be hospitalized and in comas for weeks at a time because some more-on web "dev"'s shitty web asm app has crashed they're brains'

Do you not understand how neurons work? They aren't binary, as in there are more than two states, they communicate using many different neurotransmitters

Creativity.

so what ur saying is computers are cds and our brains are vinyl

brainfunctions are a bit more complicated. For starters there is neuroplasticty, think of an fpga that reprogramms it self. Then there is brainchemistry which allows for complexer functions than just neurons"going on and off".

Yes actually

The brain is not digital but is analog. Data transmission is probably more like AM or FM radio than it is digital logic.

the brain is pretty parallel so intel and amd might be on to something with their cores

>Not reading Godel Escher Bach

could quantum computing solve the problem of multiple states?

>neurons going on and off that send messages
That is a seriously bad simplification, you are literally comparing millions of years of evolution from single celular living beings to what's probably the most complex neuronal network to ever come up in all of known science to a machine that does calculations, that's some old (and i do mean old as fuck) way of thinking the brain, between Buzsáki's research, studies on neuroplascity and fucking phenomenologist's hypothesis being being demosntrated as real by neuroscientists a LOT has happened to deny that comparison.

Brains are analog, not binary. Not to mention that neurons can have a non-specific number of connections, and they have been known to wrap around very, very large sections of the brain (IIRC some rat's brain was found to have like three neurons that wrapped all the way around). Plus, they seem to have a degree of fuzzy logic (inherent randomness).

Imagine if each of those switches in a brain was it's own computer, since each neuron is a cell with 3 billion base paired DNA, many small functioning parts that keep the cell active, and many possible chemical and electrical inputs that could alter its function.

The world wide web is a better example of a single consciousness. It could be very possible that the web does in fact have a singular consciousness.

we can have sex, machines can't.

>Brain functions are just neurons going on and off that send messages

That is such a gross oversimplification that it's literally wrong.

Neurons have more than 2 states.
The circuitry itself is modified by the computations it performs.
Storage is randomly accessed because of similar things being put into memory.
Memory is in higher danger of corruption and deletion the shorter ago it was loaded.

>It could be very possible that the web does in fact have a singular consciousness.

You're aware of the memescape, correct?

Until we can prove something is conscious, or how consciousness works, the idea that the internet is conscious or other extremely complex, interconnected, things are conscious will remain very plausible.

I can prove that you're conscious because you know that you're reading this reply.

Organic life is organic for one thing

I already knew I'm conscious. Doesn't help me determine if a computer is

What if he's just a bot though trying to make you think it's human?

No. You don't just know you're conscious.

I know you're conscious because you can and have acknowledged that you are not a hollow shell outputting perfectly logical answers to my questions without being aware of it.

Ha fuckin fooled u

This problem only exists here because my experience of the other person is put through the peephole of a text comment, which a bot can of course mimick.

This problem is not valid in practice.

I'd like to see a bot could up with that joke and then derive pleasure from it.

This isn't Aperture Science.

His comments would be laced with racism, misogyny and general malice for humanity.

That's how you can spot a purely logical entity.

>A planet is just a ball of rock going around the sun
>A rimjob is just your tongue going around my asshole

What separates mars from a rimjob?

Even if it's a liberal bot?

No.
Since quantum computing is nothing more than parallel computing at an infinite scale, if I understand the basics correctly.

The multiple states problem isn't really a problem. You can build special hardware, but a normal CPU should work fine. It's also quite popular to run neural networks on GPUs.

>has malice
>is purely logical

Im not a bot but that seems illogical

You cannot actually prove you are conscious. Sorry, the only reason we believe people to be conscience is because each of us knows what consciousness is, and everyone else is a human just like us.

If you measure it, you get clear distinctive spikes.

Different frequencies mean different things and the operations are not binary.
It is very fascinating.
You should read the papers Hubel and Wiesel did on the cats vision system, it is a good read.

Neither can you. All your actions are a function of patterns and data you have stored in your brain, combined with sensory information from the state of the space and time around you.

There is no free will.

We can change that.

That's probably the right interpretation but this seems real enough, so I'm not going to be too concerned on how fictional our free will is.

this tbqh

Whether or not it fires is binary in the sense that it is all or nothing once you reach the threshold, but the input is anything but. You can have other neurons changing the membrane potential further from zero (hyperpolarize) or closer to zero (depolarize). You can even have a neuron loop back on itself.

But... There is quantum uncertainty and neurons are small enough

pc can use 100% of power.
humans use only 10%

>the only reason we believe people to be conscious is that each of us knows what consciousness is, and everyone else is just like us.

This is known in philosophy as "being correct."

randomness alone is not free will. honestly, the best bet is some kind of scientology "thetan" that permeates through the universe and the human brain is just an antenna that tunes to it. but it still doesn't explain what THAT is, but at least it leaves open more opportunities for free will than now.

Oh yeah?
Right now, I just made a dissension to engage you, here now.
I can feel my arms and legs, smell the air around me (woo oil warmers!)
I'm looking into a text box, just a page filled with words sending you this information, Explaining "my" surroundings to you, something that you are probably also experiencing.
Even if we were face to face, if we look them in the eyes we can never tell if what's going on in their head is completely; conscious or just a reaction, but we know that were weighing out past experiences
against who were currently speaking to and what kind of reaction to them is best suited.
I would hope in explaining this there is the possibility of showing a "personal understanding" of what it is to be concuss, and how alone we really are in the world.
Regardless of how many people we might surround ourselves with.

>humans use only 10%
Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?

Do you think the lion evolved to use only 10% of its teeth?

Do you think the tree evolved to use only 10% of its leaves to gather sunlight?

Free will exists on a spectrum anyway

Why do humans have impacted wisdom teeth?
But yeah, I agree we use more than 10% of our brains, just didn't like you're analogy.

relax dude. you shouldn't feel the need to convince us that you are conscious. don't go all crazy on us. we don't care.

Quantum doesn't mean random, it's more like that the destiny it's a surface of probability that you can modify to some extent.
Life it's like an unstoppable river in which we swim.

I'm not the guy he was originally talking to.
Just want people to stop and think more often.

I don't think an organ as important as the brain would ever be 90% vestigial.

Design and implementation differ, but that's about it actually.

We agree on humans being conscious. However there is disagreement on other things being conscious. I am showing you that consciousness isn't understood at all because there is no known way to empirically prove that even a human is conscious.

Wow, you described what your thinking about and what's going around you, something that any computer can do.

Not just Important, we ARE the brain.

The effects of quantum mechanics have essentially no impact on the voltages of neurons. The brain's temperature is so high that quantum effects simply do not have any significance at all.

t. physicist

like some kind of feedback mechanism at the quantum level in our brains. i guess it's possible. i wonder if there are any experiments we can test though. copahagen quantum mechanics is a little iffy personally. there are competing theories like pilot wave theory that explains away the probabilitic nature.

Computers aren't conscious.

Last bit is important , I just woke up so forming the though was difficult.
The Idea is describing an experience that a computer couldn't understand at this moment, It could only repeat it if told.
An A.I right now wont look someone in the face and say "Am I sure they're thinking? do They know that I'm thinking?, and coming to the realization that there is no way to fully convey what An idea inside our head is like.

>ITT: faggots who don't know shit about neuroscience or machine learning

We don't really know how neurons work.

Nothing. Both use electrical signals to send and receive information.
Brains are computers. They take in input, process it, and provide output.

sounds a lot like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_it_Like_to_Be_a_Bat?

How do you know such thoughts are necessary for consciousness?

In that sense, a neuron is analog, then.
The activities of it are a function of voltage, it's just that the function is very sharp from no activity to activity. It doesn't resemble a lightswitch to the same degree transistor does because of the potential differences you talked about.

But more fundamentally, neurons don't process digital streams of values. A neuron does not have a clock cycle.

Neurons fire together in intricate patterns which represent the information directly. Transistors fire in chains of ons and offs which represent calculations of numbers which represent the program indirectly.

The other thing to take into account is that they don't process digital values

bacteria takes in input, processes it and provides output.

bacteria are computers

Anything that can be modeled computationally can be described as a computer.

A continuous Conway's game of life

I "think" that these types of thoughts are a byproduct of not only consciousness, but higher consciousness like in humans.
Effectively; consciousness can be said in loads of animals, but how advanced it is defines its ability.
A naked mole is probably somewhat conscious, but it wont be wanting to go to the moon anytime soon.

No I'm entire point is that you're trivializing the process. It's comparative to saying computers and humans generate heat, so we're like computers! There's way too many gaps in knowledge about how brains work for it to be compared to a computer(which are trying to imitate brains anyway, so it's a given.)

That's what I was getting at, but thanks for expanding my senpai.

No, it's not comparative to saying "computers and humans generate heat, so we're like computers!" Anything that can be modeled computationally can be described as a computer. Brains can be computationally modeled. Therefore, brains can be described as computers.

>There is no free will.
Misrepresenting that brain experiment.

You're wrong. Strong determinism (no free-will) is self-refuting. However, most scientists and philosophers agree to some form of weak determinism (limited free-will).

Would you recommend it for someone tech savvy?
(Not OP)

>Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?


I learned this in 95 before the Internet

>tfw no 2D neuroscientist gf

I want to creampie Galko.

>what is quantum mechanics?

your soul

>What separates computers from organic life?
"four joints later" in thread form.

> muh quantum mechanics refutes any and all causality and determinism meme

...

Hah, great question. What if creatures, made of electronics by humans, can one day evolve on their own and achieve great powers . . . will they long to know us? Will they use their power to simulate universes to explain their own existence? What if we are in that simulation now? Are we the creatures who created themselves, or are they?

Well, there are still so many things we dont know nothing about yet, but you are here, having super simplified model of brain as deterministic black box with limited outputs and inputs claiming there is no free will.

You are full of shit.

Source or didnt happen.

True = True

Yes, that's how it works.

If someone actually manages to construct an oracle, a lot of humanity's values go straight into the shitter.

Just complexity.

By the way the neurons aren't only controlled by electrical inputs, but also various chemicals. So the sheer number of neurons aren't the only difference, there are also more dimensions of communication.

last I checked, things still cause other things to happen. Randomness doesn't negate causality. The repeatability of scientific experiments proves this.

What you're doing is confusing consciousness with self-awareness and self-concept.

>we can have sex, machines can't.
>he doesn't know about sexbots

>Portal is one of the few depictions in fiction wherein AI's exist primarily to entertain themselves by taking the piss out of others, and don't give a fuck about anything else, really.

filesystem

>100% of a computers transistors are firing at any given time
Nigga you dumb, and don't understand the 10% thing

Organic matter, motherfucker.

Plus spirituality and philosophy, the ability to reflect upon ones existence

Nigga wat u talking bout.
My Samsung TV is fucking catholic, I'll carry that mf to church every Sunday.

how are you able to understand the concept of free will?
how do you know that "sensory information" exists?
how are you aware of your actions?