Why is Microsoft getting away with spying on literally everything we do?
Why is the mass consumer okay with this? I don't understand, it's such a gross violation of privacy.
When XBone was first being released Microsoft had to do an entire U-turn on their DRM anti-consumer policies. How come they haven't had to do it with Windows 10? Is it mostly ignorance or do most people just not care?
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>Why is Microsoft getting away with spying on literally everything we do?
because "le nothing to hide" normalfags
>Why is the mass consumer okay with this?
because they don't have anything to hide
install gentoo
Most people live their lives without any knowledge about the botnet
Proof you're a kid.
When you buy a house and within the first month you get a million "buy our warranty" letters, then come talk to me about information selling etc. There arent enough people in the United States to spy on even 50 million people, let alone caring about your anime. You signed the EULA. Shut the fuck up.
kill yourself pajeet.
>Why is Microsoft getting away with spying on literally everything we do?
Because they're part of the NWO along with Google, Facebook, Intel and other such CIA fronts.
Well beware because Microsoft is also involved with DRM for the web.
>Why is Microsoft getting away with spying on literally everything we do?
Google got people comfortable with the idea. I mean, when you use Chrome for pretty much everything, why do you care that MS is spying on your word documents?
>Why is the mass consumer okay with this?
If you don't ask this of each and every person who uses android, you're a hypocrite.
>Is it mostly ignorance or do most people just not care?
The death of privacy will be via a thousand cuts.
They're agents of globalism. By implementing totalitarian mechanisms, they can go full botnet on everyone.
>When XBone was first being released Microsoft had to do an entire U-turn on their DRM anti-consumer policies. How come they haven't had to do it with Windows 10? Is it mostly ignorance or do most people just not care?
This, it's interesting how the "console plebs" actually has more dignity than the self titled "pc master race"
If they can't play games, they lose their superiority. So they'll sacrifice privacy in return for being able to lord how their graphics looks moderately better and their framerate is smoother. Otherwise, they spent thousands of dollars to do things that can be done with a 2010 laptop using a 1st gen i3 processor and 4GB of RAM..
It's the only option
Linux is too complicated for the mass majority, and Mac OS is too expensive since you need apple hardware.
>If you don't ask this of each and every person who uses android, you're a hypocrite.
I currently use linux and android and i also think google terms sucks. I used windows all my life but i also came to the conclusion that Microsoft's terms sucks so when a more respectful alternative became viable for me i ditched windows and android is in the same list of "waiting to be replaced" as windows was. I don't see the hypocrisy, it's just like going to the market and choose the nicer fruit.
I've found Linux Mint to be easier and more pleasant than Windows 8, 8.1, and 10. It's on par with 7, but is much lighter on resources.
You crucify Wiindows users because Windows does the same thing than Android does. Don't act like things are any different, because they aren't.
>Why is the mass consumer okay with this? I don't understand, it's such a gross violation of privacy.
Have you ever heard of cellphones?
Windows "spying" is nowhere near the amount of spying a cellphone does.
Windows doesn't even spy on you.
They just use what is more convenient for them and what it gives them less hassle. But this is not relevant to what i said, the thing is that they raised their voice against what they considered abusive so it's surprising for me that windows fans despite knowing about the abusive terms they're just trying to justify the bullshit. Oh well i guess i don't have to care about people shooting in their own foot.
Name one thing that Android does that W10 doesn't do.
I think that you forget that console owners aren't the same as PC gamers. There's some overlap, but its usually pretty limited. So while PC guys will laugh about paid online, they fail to mention the cost of free online: that they don't actually own any of their Steam library and that everything they do is reported to MS.
They are members of (((big tech))) cartel.
Most people just don't care.
Learn to read, i never said they're different, in fact i made very clear that both the terms of MS and Google sucks ass hard, in fact Google's terms most probably are even worse. If you read carefully what i said is that i ditched windows when i found something better and the same will happen to Android. Also, Sup Forums is supposed to be one person? i don't crucify windows users for using windows, don't put words in my mouth.
In terms of privacy, there is already a better option. You can also choose to go without smart phones if you're unwilling to go to apple. I literally used dumb phones until fall of last year, and I got my service for 15 dollars per month.
Is able to sense when you wake up, your body temperature, heart rate, where your eyes are looking, etc. Some of those are technically possible on windows platform but involve more money (ie buying a webcam), or simply do not have enough users to really do anything with (ie windows phone could probably do all of the above but lmao >wp).
Oh, and that's not even counting the simple fact it's google and so the entire usage of the platform is going towards supporting and building an advertising ecosystem. But hey, it's all worth it since you got that android phone for cheap right?!
I don't use Android. As I stated above, I tried my first smartphone last fall (iPhone 6S). It's ok, but I'm not really doing anything with it that I didn't also do with my Casio Ravine 2, so I might be switching back to that. The only advantages that the iPhone has that I like is all encryption based.
>In terms of privacy, there is already a better option. You can also choose to go without smart phones if you're unwilling to go to apple. I literally used dumb phones until fall of last year, and I got my service for 15 dollars per month.
Lol, no. Are you telling me that i rather don't use anything than to use android? believe me, i would still use windows if i haven't found a nicer choice, i wouldn't stop using computers completely just because i put windows in the list of "waiting to be replaced", i just kept using windows until i found something better because windows was the nicest of the choices back then but i never considered myself married to windows the same way i don't consider myself married to android so i just take what is better for me.
Ok. So what about people who think Windows 10 is the better choice? Or are you just a, "Stop liking what I don't like," kind of guy?
>Ok. So what about people who think Windows 10 is the better choice? Or are you just a, "Stop liking what I don't like," kind of guy?
Again, don't put words in my mouth. If someone considers Windows to be the better choice i don't have any problem with that. It's funny that you tell me this coming from a guy that tells me that my options are either use windows 10 and android or to not use anything if i don't want to not be an hypocrite.
Dumbass, do some math. What percentage of people buying a console play video games? Now what percentage of people using Windows play video games? Of those, how many refuse to switch to 10?
Which of the two do you think carry enough weight to force changes to the platform?
No, I said that bagging on people using Windows 10 while ignoring Android is hypocritical.
wut? read again, i'm not talking about all windows users.
Because you spend too much time on the internet and instead of doing your own research and forming your own opinion you just regurgitate whatever FUD Sup Forums and reddit feeds you.
Use what you like and be happy with it. When you are satisfied with yourself maybe then you wouldn't spend so much time caring about what "mass consumers" do.
What makes you think that all people are OK with what Windows is doing? For all you know, each and every person with any knowledge of what Win10 is doing is completely against it. But, just like you use Android, despite the complete lack of privacy, with the CEO going so far as to say, "If you have something you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it," they keep using Windows.
>No, I said that bagging on people using Windows 10 while ignoring Android is hypocritical.
Ok but what about the people that is not ignoring android because they're conscious that the terms are abusive and would ditch android when they have the chance?
A more interesting question: if you're conscious about Microsoft's terms are abusive and you don't have any argument against that why do you try to prove that everyone else is as wrong as you to justify that it's not bad to be abused if someone else id being abused too, instead of thinking about yourself and looking for way to avoid in the future to get a software provider that treats you better even if maybe at this moment you must cope with what you don't like?
If you have a dildo in your ass and someone with a dildo in their ass points to the fact that you have a dildo in your ass, disregarding what he said because he has a dildo too will take out your own dildo from your ass?
No, the fact that you use a product and that maybe you even genuinely like 99% of that product doesn't mean that you need to force yourself to like the 1% you don't like about that product. Write a letter to the company of the product to help them to improve the 1% you don't like or if you eventually find a product that you like 99.1% while the other company refuses to improve, why would be something bad to ditch the first product?
*looking for way to avoid in the future to get abused and if possible to get a software provider that treats you better
>Ok but what about the people that is not ignoring android because they're conscious that the terms are abusive and would ditch android when they have the chance?
You have just as much of a chance now as Windows 10 users do.
>A more interesting question: if you're conscious about Microsoft's terms are abusive and you don't have any argument against that why do you try to prove that everyone else is as wrong as you to justify that it's not bad to be abused if someone else id being abused too
Now who is putting words in other people's mouths? Point out where I said it wasn't bad. I use apple for my phone, and Linux Mint for my OS.
>If you have a dildo in your ass and someone with a dildo in their ass points to the fact that you have a dildo in your ass, disregarding what he said because he has a dildo too will take out your own dildo from your ass?
No, but if you try to insult someone for having a dildo in their ass while you have a lava lamp in yours, it comes off as hypocritical.
>No, the fact that you use a product and that maybe you even genuinely like 99% of that product doesn't mean that you need to force yourself to like the 1% you don't like about that product
Whether we are talking about Windows or Android, the loss of privacy is much greater than 1%.
>Write a letter to the company of the product to help them to improve the 1% you don't like or if you eventually find a product that you like 99.1% while the other company refuses to improve, why would be something bad to ditch the first product?
Those products already exist, whether it be for android or Win10. You keep acting like Android has a monopoly. They don't, and yet you keep using them.
>You have just as much of a chance now as Windows 10 users do.
Please elaborate
>Now who is putting words in other people's mouths? Point out where I said it wasn't bad. I use apple for my phone, and Linux Mint for my OS.
Ok?
>No, but if you try to insult someone for having a dildo in their ass while you have a lava lamp in yours, it comes off as hypocritical.
What i can see is that you're upset because someone insulted you for using windows 10 and you want to get even. What i perceive is that this is a tribal thing for you because you're just pointing about people insulting other people. Also your logic is still wrong, what you're saying is that if we assume the other person doesn't have anything in they ass that suddenly justifies them insulting you as long you have something in your ass? think about what you said for a moment, you're actually shooting yourself in the foot with that argument. The correct argument is that insulting is never justified but if that's what makes you upset i don't think this place is the best to be sensible. not justifying that this place is a fucking cesspool but if being trolled affects you this much better go to a properly moderated place.
>Whether we are talking about Windows or Android, the loss of privacy is much greater than 1%.
You just missed the point completely, read again and you'll grasp that the percentages are not the important thing in that statement.
>Those products already exist, whether it be for android or Win10. You keep acting like Android has a monopoly. They don't, and yet you keep using them.
Again, elaborate. I would gladly ditch android for an ubuntu phone if the project were alive of for any other effort that treats the user better as long the compromise is reasonable. The problem is that for each person that line is drawn at a different position and a different metric. That's why i said that if for someone W10 is the better option i have no problem.
>Ok but what about the people that is not ignoring android because they're conscious that the terms are abusive and would ditch android when they have the chance?
I've heard everyone and their dog use this argument but nobody ever points out that android and the current mobile platform set the precedent for this kind of spying and stripping away of user control.
Nobody ever says "just because Windows 10 spys on you now doesn't make it okay for Google to keep doing so, especially considering they are the spearhead of creating a successful business by doing this", yet when Windows wants more data to improve Bing and Cortana it's suddenly the bridge no one is willing to cross.
This hypocrisy is real. Spend a day on Sup Forums reading every windows and android thread and tell me it isn't.
Apple's privacy is immeasurably better than Android's. Keep in mind that their privacy policy is considered a legal contract.
>What I can see is that you're upset because someone insulted you for using windows 10 and you want to get even.
Well, then, you can't see shit. Pic related.
Of course that people is shooting themselves in the foot with fanboyism. what one company does doesn't justify what the other does, the second problem is when people tried to justify what THEIR company does by pointing at what other companies does. By doing this they're not fixing their own problem, they're just defending against what they perceive as an attack to their tastes.
>Apple's privacy is immeasurably better than Android's. Keep in mind that their privacy policy is considered a legal contract.
Holy god, no thanks, those guys are restrictive as hell and being based in the US just makes the things worse regarding provacy.
>Well, then, you can't see shit. Pic related.
I don't care about what you use. What i said is what i guessed but i accept i can be wrong. You can tell me you use BSD or temple OS and that doesn't change anything, that doesn't make your logic better from my point of view.
>being based in the US just makes the things worse regarding provacy.
Unlike google, right? Remember that apple can't actually give what they don't have. Don't do online backups or have an iCloud account, and set your privacy settings properly, and you're made in the shade. But that takes time and money, right? And while most Linux distros don't take money, it certainly takes time, and quite a bit of it to learn from scratch and troubleshoot without a dedicated support team.
>You can tell me you use BSD or temple OS and that doesn't change anything, that doesn't make your logic better from my point of view.
That's because your point of view is rather limited. You are throwing stones while living in a glass house.
It's market solution product. The buying public doesn't care about privacy so that's what it answers to. Use it at work if you have to. Use it for games if you want. If you want to surf and do business for yourself use something else. When you want something the masses don't care about then you have to roll up your sleeves and work for it. Otherwize pay your money and put up with it.
>Unlike google, right?
And? i already established that i don't think you can have privacy with google but you'll not convince me that apple has a good privacy just because google has bad privacy.
>Remember that apple can't actually give what they don't have. Don't do online backups or have an iCloud account, and set your privacy settings properly, and you're made in the shade.
The same can said about android and google. can you see how the only real difference between you and the people you're accusing of being hypocrite is the people you trust? all it's about a chain of trust but sadly i cannot tell you who you should trust.
>But that takes time and money, right? And while most Linux distros don't take money, it certainly takes time, and quite a bit of it to learn from scratch and troubleshoot without a dedicated support team.
Sorry but my current linux installation is working perfectly and installing ubuntu was easy. I don't see what is your point even if you manage to prove that linux takes time.
>That's because your point of view is rather limited. You are throwing stones while living in a glass house.
What i actually cannot understand is how some people is willing to say "it's ok to be fucked as long i can prove other people is as fucked as me". Let's assume you can prove my house is more fragile, what does that add ot the discussion. Also what stones? pointing to the fact that you should try to fix your own problems instead of defending those same problems by justifying them at looking other people has the same problems and pointing to them to make yourself feel better without addressing the actual problem is considered an attack?
The normie is literally the cattle of this century, you can do as you please with it, it will complain but never actually do something about it, their pack behavior is easily manipulated by enough publicity/exposure, take for example the nothing to hide argument, they are shallow, devoid of any creativity and political opinion, their whole life's meaning is to make money for someone else, After all this time, they've acknowledged what they really are.
>The same can said about android and google
Patently false. They are an advertisement company that make money off of your data. Vanilla android has shit baked into it that will tie everything you do to the user account the phone is registered to.
>Why is Microsoft getting away with spying on literally everything we do?
By not.
Sup Forums memes and reality are rarely in agreement.
>And? i already established that i don't think you can have privacy with google but you'll not convince me that apple has a good privacy just because google has bad privacy.
Their privacy policy is a legally binding contract. Feel free to read through it, and then to provide evidence to show how they are BAD with your privacy.
>The same can said about android and google. can you see how the only real difference between you and the people you're accusing of being hypocrite is the people you trust?
Not true. The burden of proof is on you, but I can disprove your claim simply by citing how UnaOS and the BlackPhone are HEAVILY modified android OSes for a reason.
>Sorry but my current linux installation is working perfectly and installing ubuntu was easy. I don't see what is your point even if you manage to prove that linux takes time.
Anecdotal evidence. Your experience does not reflect everyone else's. Your needs do not reflect everyone else's.
>What i actually cannot understand is how some people is willing to say "it's ok to be fucked as long i can prove other people is as fucked as me".
I want you to read this next part carefully, so I'm going to capitalize it for emphasis, not as a way of expressing yelling or anger: POINT OUT TO ME WHERE I SAID THAT. I will not continue this conversation until you either retract that anyone has said this, or point me to exactly where I said that, or anything similar. You being a hypocrite has nothing to do with me thinking privacy-invading tech is ok.
You just proved my point. As you can see the difference is that you trust in Apple when you don't trust Google. I don't trust Google but i also don't trust Apple and even more considering how much they lock down their devices. If you trust Apple and you consider is the better option go for it but honestly i would prefer to go for an alternative to the companies that already have a record on either being restrictive or datamining their users. I actually don't discard completely the possibility of getting an apple device, it's just that i don't trust them more than google or microsoft and that among macos vs windows and android vs ios i would prefer windows and android. No hard feelings against apple.
>Their privacy policy is a legally binding contract. Feel free to read through it, and then to provide evidence to show how they are BAD with your privacy.
Are you implying that the privacy terms of google and microsoft are not legally binding or that they're less legally binding than apple's? The same can be said about google and microsoft, they of course will not put anything in their terms that may give them problems.
>Not true. The burden of proof is on you, but I can disprove your claim simply by citing how UnaOS and the BlackPhone are HEAVILY modified android OSes for a reason.
Wait, what does this statement has to do with the statement you're replying to? Also what claim? you trust different people and companies than other people, am i wrong on that?
>Anecdotal evidence. Your experience does not reflect everyone else's. Your needs do not reflect everyone else's.
And? what you're trying to prove with this?
>POINT OUT TO ME WHERE I SAID THAT
If you're the same person: >If you don't ask this of each and every person who uses android, you're a hypocrite.
Sorry but it can be interpreted that way too.
>I will not continue this conversation until you either retract that anyone has said this, or point me to exactly where I said that, or anything similar. You being a hypocrite has nothing to do with me thinking privacy-invading tech is ok.
You're getting too upset about the random posts of a person in a cantonese pseudo-technological anime board. It's fine, disregard everything i said and let's forget this argument happened.
>Are you implying that the privacy terms of google and microsoft are not legally binding or that they're less legally binding than apple's?
Of course not.
>The same can be said about google and microsoft, they of course will not put anything in their terms that may give them problems.
You must not have bothered to read the privacy policies from Apple, Google, and MS. If you had, you would know that the privacy policies, and the promises therein, are completely different.
>Wait, what does this statement has to do with the statement you're replying to?
That you can do the same thing with android as you can with an iPhone, and have your information remain secure.
>Also what claim?
The claim: "The same can said about android and google," make here: >And? what you're trying to prove with this?
That your anecdotal evidence is not a universal truth, that Linux is not a time-free investment for all, and that one will never need to troubleshoot issues on their own, rather than calling up dedicated customer service lines from MS.
>Sorry but it can be interpreted that way too.
No, it can't. I never said whether it was good OR bad, only that you were a hypocrite if you didn't extend the same condemnation to android. Nothing more. Just because your mind whipped something that wasn't there up doesn't mean that it was there.
I'm not upset. It was just the second time you had made this accusation, and I wasn't going to let you continue making it without proof, since you didn't provide it the first time. You still haven't. Retract, and we can move forward.
Microsoft gets away with it because there is no alternative choice for most people.
That's it there's nothing else option wise for normies. So Microsoft can do whatever they fucking want.
Phone has competition...ps4 and whatever Nintendo makes...consumers have someplace to go.
With Windows there is no alternative for most people...you can't raise Hell and complain
Most people only need a web browser nowadays. There certainly are alternatives, but most people are too lazy or resigned to bother with them. In the competition between a vague unease about how much data corporations have on them, and having to do even fifteen minutes of work to attempt to avoid it, most people will pick the former. They tell pollsters they want privacy but they won't lift a finger to get it. It's kind of like how they say they want to be rich, or at least financially secure, but do they save money every month? do they avoid debt? do they put off discretionary purchases or avoid them altogether? No. The irresponsible way is easier.
>You must not have bothered to read the privacy policies from Apple, Google, and MS. If you had, you would know that the privacy policies, and the promises therein, are completely different.
I'm not interested into defending any of them, if you think Apple is better provide evidence, i'm not interested into proving that Apple is worse because i don't think they're worse.
>That you can do the same thing with android as you can with an iPhone, and have your information remain secure.
Elaborate then, i think i can? why not?
>The claim: "The same can said about android and google,"
You can disable most things on android and if you root it you can even modify it. What is the problem? The fact that you can disable most things that sends information and that if it actually stops android from sending information is a different issue, the same can be said about apple.
>That your anecdotal evidence is not a universal truth,
I never claimed it was tho.
>that Linux is not a time-free investment for all, and that one will never need to troubleshoot issues on their own, rather than calling up dedicated customer service lines from MS.
Ok, if that's my experience what is the problem? also i never compared it to the customer service of any company. My question is: what is the initial point of trying to prove that linux can have problems? My guess is that you're trying to discredit my arguments by proving that my tastes are the wrong ones. but if it's not that then what's the point?
>only that you were a hypocrite if you didn't extend the same condemnation to android.
Oh, i see. Yeah, that would be a huge problem of fanboyism. But again, what is the point of pointing to the fanboyism of other people? it just creates a loop and doesn't fixes the problem and just looks like a deflection tactic.
>You still haven't. Retract, and we can move forward.
Ahm, honestly i'm not that interested in this conversation, if you stop answering i have no problem.
Yeah, but the fact that your only option is windows doesn't mean you must force yourself to like MS's bullshit. Xbone users proved that in the past.
Bullshit. If people only need browsers Wed all have chromebooks.
There are no alternatives. Mac? Overpriced and planned obsolescence.
Linux? No games and too reliant on command line...too much to deal with.
Chrome os or android could work with offline apps...but the hardware is intentionally underpowered and no steam support.
No they have zero alternatives...nothing else normies can do but bend over and take Microsoft's big ol corporate dick.
>if you think Apple is better provide evidence
Their privacy policy is a click away, as is google's and MS's. You claiming ignorance is not an argument. I've cited my sources.
>Elaborate then, i think i can? why not?
Firstly, that's not how this works. You make a claim, YOU provide the evidence for it. Burden of proof is on the claimant, which is why I have never objected to you asking for a source for my claim that apple is inherently more secure.
>You can disable most things on android and if you root it you can even modify it
Provide evidence to that claim.
>I never claimed it was tho.
You offered it as a refutation that Linux, while free, takes quite a bit of time to learn from scratch and troubleshoot. It isn't.
>Ok, if that's my experience what is the problem?
You just admitted that your experience is not universal, and now you ask why I am objecting to it being treated as a universal experience.
>also i never compared it to the customer service of any company?
Complaining about MS's OS means that you were pushing for people to move towards an alternative. I presumed Linux, because if it was MacOS, I would have just laughed at you. People would go without before they paid such a high price for middling computer hardware.
>My guess is that you're trying to discredit my arguments by proving that my tastes are the wrong ones. but if it's not that then what's the point?
I've never said your tastes were the wrong ones. "Tastes" are opinions. There are no wrong opinions. That includes Win10.
>Oh, i see. Yeah, that would be a huge problem of fanboyism. But again, what is the point of pointing to the fanboyism of other people? it just creates a loop and doesn't fixes the problem and just looks like a deflection tactic.
Not at all, but you can't play favorites. You can't scream about what Windows is doing when Android is literally doing worse.
Wish I read your last point. Wouldn't have bothered, and won't bother again until you retract.
Xbone had alternatives to choose from. Ps4 and Wii u. Windows has no alternative.
But when xbone customers bitches there was a very real possibility the customers would leave. With Windows...where the Fuck is the customer base supposed to go? Linux isn't normie friendly...Mac is overpriced/limited and highly subject to planned obsolescence. And chrome OS is too limited.
People had power to fuck Microsoft with Xbox...they have no power with Windows.
>implying everyone gets a computer under the same circumstances and for the same needs
Not at all...Just Windows is the only one that covers all needs dumbass.
I don't assume a user's needs...and neither can you. Buy we can both damned well point out the limitations of other operating systems...that do not apply to Windows.
I don't need to presume a user's needs. Neither do they lmao. Only thing anyone needs to know is Windows doesn't limit them regardless of need.
Any their are no alternatives...so bend over and take that micro dick.
>Their privacy policy is a click away, as is google's and MS's. You claiming ignorance is not an argument. I've cited my sources.
You cited your sources but you're not telling why apple's policies are better. My sources are also their privacy policies but i don't find them much better than microsoft's or google's.
>Firstly, that's not how this works. You make a claim, YOU provide the evidence for it. Burden of proof is on the claimant, which is why I have never objected to you asking for a source for my claim that apple is inherently more secure.
The problem is that the topic itself is too wide, you claimed:
>Remember that apple can't actually give what they don't have. Don't do online backups or have an iCloud account, and set your privacy settings properly, and you're made in the shade.
The same way i don't need to have a google account to use android, i can get my software from other sources that's not the store, for example F-droid and u can root the phone to get rid of all the gapps (if we assume i trust google i can just disable the gapps without root). The same way i can disable the settings that seems to send info to google. You're the one who claimed that if you do the same on ios your privacy is guaranteed, how you can prove that?
>You offered it as a refutation that Linux, while free, takes quite a bit of time to learn from scratch and troubleshoot. It isn't.
But that was not the point of the conversation. What do you gain if you prove that? i already asked multiple times.
>and now you ask why I am objecting to it being treated as a universal experience.
This is a contradiction, you're objecting to something i didn't said? i never asked for my experience to be treated as an universal experience, then what are you objecting?
>Complaining about MS's OS means that you were pushing for people to move towards an alternative. I presumed Linux, because...
Ok, but what is the point?
>I've never said your tastes were the wrong ones. "Tastes" are opinions. There are no wrong opinions. That includes Win10.
I already made that clear here so what's the point of your argument when you mentioned linux the first time?
>Not at all, but you can't play favorites. You can't scream about what Windows is doing when Android is literally doing worse.
ok?
>Wish I read your last point. Wouldn't have bothered, and won't bother again until you retract.
o-k?
>Linux? No games
Not him but the no games argument is not true anymore. Windows is the best os for gaming mostly due to most game developers are trained into developing for it with microsoft's closed APIs, so the simple process of porting a game that was developed for windows to any other platform will affect negatively the performance of the game. This with the fact that the marketshare is small compared to windows there's hardly an incentive at the moment to optimize for linux, making look as if the platform were worse for games than windows when in fact to flip the situation you'll need to change the idiosyncrasies on the industry itself.
The fact though is that the situation on linux is not nearly the same than two years ago and now those who prefer linux over windows now can play games on it, helping to break the vicious circle, but still there's a lot of things to do for linux to compete in the gaming side. I anyone wants for this to change i recommend to play the games you can on linux when possible and ask for linux ports.
I notice some people doesn't want's for this to happen but if that the case let me ask (not directed specifically to the person i'm replying): how are any of you benefited in a meaningful way with the current situation? because i consider that keeping the statu quo just to have a tool to win an argument on what OS is better is not a meaningful thing. how having less options and practically being locked to MS products benefits you?
Some links:
steamdb.info
store.steampowered.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
>and too reliant on command line
Hmmm, in my own experience most things has a gui and honestly when i have a problem on windows sometimes i need to use the CLI or even worse, the registry too. I fail to see how user-oriented distros like ubuntu are less user friendly than windows, the amount you are obligated to use the CLI on ubuntu is around the same than on windows.
I'm not defending Microsoft...I'm lamenting their monopoly.
And no Linux does not have enough games(and that's not the real problem with Linux anyway) mind you the game situation is better...but Linux cannot touch the huge backlog of shit available for Windows.
But that's not the real issue...the real issue is the COMMAND LiNE...or terminal. As in asking a normie to go near it is an instant deal breaker...and you need it with Linux.
In addition a lack of .exe type files is a real killer too...if it's not in the software repo it's not getting installed by a normie. You cannot simply download a program in Linux click and install it, so it's not normie usable.
In addition file types between version is cannot be handled by normies. .rpm.dev.tgz.pup...ECT ad naseum...normies cannot ever be asked to handle this to use a computer. Its not doable for user...and frankly it's unfair to expect them to handle it
So no Linux isn't a replacement for Windows. At all. And it still has less games. Sadly.
And Linux likes it This way so it will never change. Sadly
So no alternative to Windows.
What's sad is that the command terminal (and their refusal to use it) is what makes them safer from viruses and exploits.
I'm not arguing anything you are saying. Just pointing out how what they want is literally cancer.
>this entire post
90% of those games are either indie garbage or shit that came out 10 years ago. Nobody cares about any of that. The Linux library available on steam is still less than 1/4th the size of the Windows library.
>but Linux cannot touch the huge backlog of shit available for Windows.
True but this is why is important to ask for availability when possible. Fortunately wine has helped me a lot when is about dx9 games, with recent version hardly anyone needs extra configurations.
>But that's not the real issue...the real issue is the COMMAND LiNE...or terminal. As in asking a normie to go near it is an instant deal breaker...and you need it with Linux.
Really? not my experience, most things has a gui but feel free to provide examples.
>In addition a lack of .exe type files is a real killer too...if it's not in the software repo it's not getting installed by a normie. You cannot simply download a program in Linux click and install it, so it's not normie usable.
Ahm, portable and self contained programs has always existed (see for example the installer of netbeans) and in the case of ubuntu the ppas are very easy to manage. There can be cases when this happens but it's not that common and with sandboxed formats like flatpak and snap it should become a lot easier.
>In addition file types between version is cannot be handled by normies.
What are you talking about? the person only needs to know what packages uses their OS and to know the version of the os. It's not that different from going to a site where you have a mac installer and a windows installer and one installer says that only works with windows xp and previous versions and the other says that it works with vista and later versions.
>So no Linux isn't a replacement for Windows. At all. And it still has less games. Sadly.
I disagree about the replacement part. But yeah, has less games.
>And Linux likes it This way so it will never change. Sadly
You don't know that. Developers actually care about bringing a good experience, at least most of the one i've talked to.
>So no alternative to Windows.
False in my opinion.
>90% of those games are either indie garbage or shit that came out 10 years ago.
It's funny, this guy says:
>but Linux cannot touch the huge backlog of shit available for Windows.
but suddenly you claim that those games doesn't count. Friendly fire?
Seriously, no need to feel bad because linux is getting more and more games and becoming a viable alternative. In what way hurts you that? you only can win if linux get's more games. I don't see the need to try to deter people from trying linux, i'm sure they'll get a nice surprise when they look the catalog. There's actually a good number of AAA games even if as you say, most of the games are indies.
>The Linux library available on steam is still less than 1/4th the size of the Windows library.
And you honestly consider this as something small? until 2013 linux gaming was not even a thing. Read this:
reddit.com
>And you honestly consider this as something small?
Yes. Having less than 1/4th the products that your competitors have is kind of a big deal.
>until 2013...
That's nice. We're still living in the present, not the future. There's no reason for gamers to switch to Linux now because you believe that Linux will be able to compete a few years down the line. They can switch when it finally happens.
They don't want cancer...they just want easy. Normies don't even like too many fucking buttons and meus on a blu ray player...nobody can expect these people to have a single ounce of patience for a command line. They will hate you for even suggesting it...I can't even say they would be wrong for it.
You just suggested a normies only needs to know a package type??? A normie is fucking insulted they should have to do any such thing. One package type or nothing.
Yes Linux wants it convoluted. There is no standard Linux executable that works on every branch of Linux with mouse clicks...hence it is unsuitable for mass use. The branches forks and distros is all you need to know They want normies to stay the Fuck away.
If Linux wants desktop share...it could beat MS any time it wants...it only needs to be able to do the following:
Be able to download any Linux file type for any version of Linux click it an run it. No exceptions. Like Windows to be blunt.
If you need to know anything beyond 'it's for linux' you've asked too much. If it requires any effort beyond download click and it works...it's too much.
It has to be Windows/osx/android easy or its too difficult. No exceptions.
>Really? not my experience, most things has a gui but feel free to provide examples.
Well this is how you install spotify.
spotify.com
I know that doing this may seem like second nature for most people in this thread, but anyone who is used to the way windows or mac works will see this as troublesome.
>the command line makes you safer from viruses
What the fuck are you talking about?
>Yes. Having less than 1/4th the products that your competitors have is kind of a big deal.
While having started to be a target for gaming a lot of years later? Linux gaming has done a lot of strides. Maybe for people whose priority are games it's not an alternative right now but the fact is that it now has a nice catalog of commercial games and that's something that people who prefers linux can be happy about.
>That's nice. We're still living in the present, not the future. There's no reason for gamers to switch to Linux now because you believe that Linux will be able to compete a few years down the line. They can switch when it finally happens.
No one is trying to convert you, relax. That's up to each one, games are not the only reason to use a computer.
That's not troublesome...that impossible for a normie. That's literal tears for a normie. An actual fucking honest to God mental breakdown.
That's take it back to the store and demand a refund kinda shit right there. Angry letters to the pc manufacturers for daring to make their laptops hard to use.
This shit has happened before. Several companies including asus and Dell tried to make Linux desktops during the vista era when people where losing their shit. There are lots of stories about screaming hysterical bitches call in customer service to curse them for linux being to hard to use.
>No one is trying to convert you
First day on internet messaging boards? There's a reason that whole "they will tell you they use Arch" meme stuck.
>You just suggested a normies only needs to know a package type??? A normie is fucking insulted they should have to do any such thing. One package type or nothing.
What is the problem? both the gnome software center and discover and i thing the one mate uses which is now distro agnostic has backends for snap and flatpak, the user will not need to know each package. Also suddenly windows becomes bad because there's .exe, .msi, the store, chocolatey, or compressed files to install things on windows?
>Yes Linux wants it convoluted.
Well this is a claim that i think is hard to prove because you'd need to ask a significant number of developers from different projects. As far i know they want their users happy, not to annoy them on purpose.
>There is no standard Linux executable that works on every branch of Linux with mouse clicks...
This is not a good argument because it assumes that linux is an OS. Linux is an internal component that happens to be used widely thanks to be freely available. Each distro is a different OS which happens to use components that are freely available. It's like argumenting that windows is bad because it cannot run .dmg or .deb directly.
>hence it is unsuitable for mass use.
I think your logic is wrong, you need to talk about specific distros, not about linux as a whole.
>The branches forks and distros is all you need to know They want normies to stay the Fuck away.
Where this claim comes from? also people generally uses what comes preinstalled and what is familiar with. For changing this you need to get a big number of computers with linux preinstalled and to overthrow the familiarity which is even harder.
The average person person either doesn't know, or doesn't care about what Microsoft does, as long as their 900$ Facebook machines are still usable.
>Be able to download any Linux file type for any version of Linux click it an run it. No exceptions. Like Windows to be blunt.
Windows cannot run every installer for every version. It's obvious that ubuntu will be able to run installers for that version of ubuntu and fedora will be able to run installers for that version of fedora, i don't see how is that different.
>If you need to know anything beyond 'it's for linux' you've asked too much. If it requires any effort beyond download click and it works...it's too much.
Are you implying that windows is problem-free? then why does technical support exists? People is literally trained from a young age to use microsoft products and yet the average joe hardly fixes their problems by itself, they thake their computer the same way a person that drives a car but doesn't know about mechanics takes it's car to be fixed by someone that knows. You're seriously not measuring linux by the same standards as windows.
>It has to be Windows/osx/android easy or its too difficult. No exceptions.
Ahm, all OS has problems. There can be exceptions but that doesn't mean an os is not easy. It's necessary to make clear how you're comparing.
oh, so... that's your argument?
Ok, but this is an indicator of the overall experience on linux? or an exception?
The fact is that if spotify wants they can provide a download to the deb directly. Yet just copying and pasting should be painless.
For counter-argumenting look at how you install google chrome:
google.com
Just download, click on the package and let a gui to install it for you. That's it, what you asked for. So as you can see linux can be as easy as windows.
Pic related. Make an effort if you want to be taken seriously.
The mass influences what affects the individual. The mass says surveillance is okay (or at least they don't care enough to worry about it), so now everyone gets it whether they like it or not.
If you have to talk about specific distros then Linux has already lost. The fact that this many distros exist is why you know they want users to stay away.
If you aren't thinking of the absolute most simple shit the you cannot be an alternative for normies. They can't handle different versions of shit.
If you say ubuntu, mint and fedora are all Linux they want to know which one is the current one...as if they are different versions of the same OS like vista co 7 and 10.
You're not getting it man...by having different distros Linux is done before it got started. A few versions maybe but we have 500 plus. It's too much.
Think of your father or mother trying to hook up a cable tv set...this is the kind of stupid were dealing with.
Oh and that whole 'Linux isn't 1 OS it's a bunch of different OS'...NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. If it's not all cross compatible it's not good enough.
I am being serious dumbass. Linux is too hard for most people. Its not normie friendly. The end.
Look if you Linux guys want to win here what you do.
Make the install wizard Windows has. Make a program to auto install any Linux software on any distro with only mouse clicks. If you pull that off you win easy as that.
Why do you need this? Easy because lazy assfucks don't always include a gui installer and can't be trusted to do so. If it EVER takes more than a few clicks to do then it's too hard.
Example is the Spotify post above
For reference. Get ahead of the programmers somehow. Make an installer as a tool. Make it so there is no excuse to not have an easy installation.
Make the Linux installation wizard.
i politely disagree with your opinion. The end.
The numbers back me up. Disagree all you want but fact don't give a shit about your opinion.
They haven't been particularly transparent about it, they tend to brush it off more or less. The general public probably doesn't live in the realm of actual reality, and as such they likely spawn the logical fallacy that the accusations thrown about are blown out of proportion. Those who are actively aware of it more often than not conclude that there is nothing for them to hide and as such they don't need to protect themselves from the spying. And until it becomes truly apparent that the power wielded by MS, Google, the NSA, and Facebook in addition to any others is being egregiously abused then there will be no legitimizable activism against the continued tracking.
They know user...there's just fuck all they can do about it.
But my mom and my dad both use Linux, both in their 60s, and my mom is on so many medications she can't drive a car anymore, sooo
>If you have to talk about specific distros then Linux has already lost. The fact that this many distros exist is why you know they want users to stay away.
Ok, let's talk about ubuntu only. Does your arguments still apply if we assume it's the only one that exists?
>They can't handle different versions of shit.
Like a lot of people is still on windows XP, 7, and 8.1 aside from W10? look at how many variants of android exists, does that hindered it in any way when we talk about adoption?
>If you say ubuntu, mint and fedora are all Linux they want to know which one is the current one...as if they are different versions of the same OS like vista co 7 and 10.
They're different operative systems like windows and mac, that's not so hard to get.
>You're not getting it man...by having different distros Linux is done before it got started. A few versions maybe but we have 500 plus. It's too much.
If, let's say ubuntu, comes preinstalled by default that's what most people will use, they don't need to bother with other distros.
>Think of your father or mother trying to hook up a cable tv set...this is the kind of stupid were dealing with.
Yet i know people who barely knows anything about computers using ubuntu happily, go figure.
>Oh and that whole 'Linux isn't 1 OS it's a bunch of different OS'...NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. If it's not all cross compatible it's not good enough.
Ok, then windows lost because it cannot run mac applications natively.
It's beyond the realm of software any more. Intel now installs hard backdoors into their new processors and you can assume the very same of all other processor manufacturers. Operating systems outside of the realm of the open source systems are compromised as well. To ignore that is to accept fate, there is no opt-out anymore, period.
Done taking your bait troll.
>The numbers back me up.
Marketshare? there's a lot more likey reasons for the low marketshare:
- Microsoft has deals with hardware companies, so most laptop and desktop computers comes bundled with their products.
- Most people uses whatever comes bundled with the hardware and i can bet a lot of them doesn't even know what is an operative system and that you can choose it. If the brand "Windows" were related to quality then WP would be the most used mobile operative system because the demand would be high.
- Microsoft has deals with schools, so people is trained from a young age to use microsoft products. For a lot of them it's a question of being a comfort zone, not even about the difficulty. I can say this because in my own experience most windows users never solve their own problems, they ask other people to solve their problems.
- Microsoft has a huge lock-in with their formats and APIs. Independently on if we can consider they products are good or bad, the fact is that they use anti-competitive measures to lock their users and developers. For example their document formats doesn't honors the "ISO standard" they supposedly issued. If they care about interoperability with competing solutions they would use the well documented version of their format. But no, they uses their dominant position to push a version of the format only they know exactly how it works (interestingly and despite this, i have gotten problems even with different versions of MSO). Most of the documents in this format are created with MSO and most people doesn't even knows about the strict version of the format, this makes their format a moving target for competitors at best. Their development tools is another good example if a lock-in, they only care about compatibility on markets where they're losing like server or mobile.
>Disagree all you want but fact don't give a shit about your opinion.
Sadly opinions can be countered by opinions the same way.
Some do, others don't and yeah, there isn't anything anyone can do to halt the increasingly diminishing rights of an individual anymore. Not alone anyways, but as a nation, or a state even. Problem being that activism is likely to get you blacklisted in the first place. The founding fathers of the US would be labeled and pursued as domestic terrorists in today's America.
>Make the install wizard Windows has. Make a program to auto install any Linux software on any distro with only mouse clicks. If you pull that off you win easy as that.
The package managers? windows cannot install mac software directly from the store so the situation is the same.
>Why do you need this? Easy because lazy assfucks don't always include a gui installer and can't be trusted to do so.
There's multiple gui installers, from this point your argument is already false.
> If it EVER takes more than a few clicks to do then it's too hard.
Honestly is a lot more painful to install or uninstall multiple programs on windows than linux and takes more click to install something from a windows installer than a gui for a package manager.
>Example is the Spotify post above
A counterexample is the chrome installer >For reference. Get ahead of the programmers somehow. Make an installer as a tool. Make it so there is no excuse to not have an easy installation.
That's up to spotify sadly, they don't even support linux properly but fortunately there's the web version.
>Make the Linux installation wizard.
That's the package manager, the only thing on windows that comes close is chocolatey and it's not comparable, it just executes installation scripts but the installers are the same as on windowsm it has no proper packaging format.
I don't mind being called a troll, i think i actually issued fair arguments. Have a nice day.
>that fucking wallpaper
Are you 15?
I meant an alternative choice in OS. They don't have one.
He's on Sup Forums... so yeah.