Linus Torvalds: 'I no longer feel like I can

>Linus Torvalds: 'I no longer feel like I can
trust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why.'

lkml.org/lkml/2017/7/6/577

SystemD

B T F O
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F
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Other urls found in this thread:

blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
lwn.net/Articles/576078/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

german autismo engineering strikes again

who cares

Linit released when?

systemd is based

yeah - based on shit devs and retarded coding practices

shut up JEW

>install ubuntu 17.04
>network doesn't work, DNS issue
>its systemd-resolve

not jew, just love having my uptime more than 2 days kek
>>Sup Forums

> >>Sup Forums
Newfag alert.

Explain why systemd is bad without resorting to ad hominem attacking Poeterring's character, or resting your explanation at the phrase 'unix philosophy' - if you use the phrase 'unix philosophy', please explain why unix philosophy is important in the context of what systemd fails to provide.

Never seen someone able to do this. Convinced systemd hate is a nice little meme people in the community like to subscribe to for pats on the head from peers who hold baseless opinions on things they don't understand.

Beautiful.

I've actually heard from reliable sources that GNU's not unix anyways.

blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/

phoneposter alert

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systemd_thread(n)
>people present many well-thought-out arguments against systemd

systemd_thread(n +1)
>"Okay so I've never seen anyone making good arguments against systemd because systemd haters are le dumb and have no clue and only spread FUD and ad homines... fuck these dumb idiots xDDDD"

Use the archive, nigger. Or be the first to actually say what's good about systemd that isn't "It works for me" or "Mimimi shell scripts"

Huh, looks like you couldn't explain why systemd is bad, huh bud? Weird.

SystemD is eventually going to include a Office suite next update.

we could explain it to you, but would you be able to comprehend and accept reality?

inb4 systemd gets an init system

Change always pisses off the community.

5-10 years when something replaces systemd you'll hear the same shit. Systemd will magically become great in people's mind, why did we ever switch!

A single point of failure
Built in conjunction with NSA
Multiple unresolved/ignored bugs

I don't give a fuck about the Unix philosophy, but the above are just a few layman's concerns

>Unix philosophy
>MAKE ONE THING AND DO IT WELL

Systemd is bad because it has too many dependencies and crash the whole system like windows because it is an ever growing cancer

Could you use SystemD as a attack vector?

Probably.

NSA/6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Of course. There are no privilege escalation bugs in systemd yet, give it some time. In five or 7 years there will be some bugs as well as unpatched systems, for now most ancient systems do not have systemd yet.

>unix
Make it do one thing and and work easily with others
>systemD
make it do one thing and depend on the whole systemd ecosystem

Systemd is a nice operating system - shame it misses an init system. But maybe they will include it in the next update, together with a graphic server to replace X11 and a new revolutionary centralized way to manage all system configuration, called "registry"

>Built in conjunction with NSA

Proof?

Yes, they should give it an Graphical Design Interface, some sort of user handling library and this library to access X number of abstract hardwares directly.

yeah it could also include automatic system updates, that you could only escape by paching the systemd and recompiling it.

I think systemd should take over mandatory access control next because its too hard to use and they could make it easier.

I think you are a faggot

...

If you like a username so much why don't you just shit post on reddit?

I'm not.
It would be great, systemd could load a library with your app and there could be something like /etc/systemd/security/appnamehere.mac

Go away faggot

>explain why you don't like thing within the boundaries of some arbitrary framework i came up with in the hopes of leaving you unsuccessful, so that i don't have to deal with issues regarding thing i really like

Seems legit.

>OP literally parses every LKML email looking for Linus drama

You're doing gods work OP
Please post more threads of linus ripping retards new assholes
I collect this stuff

/thread

Seems like you can't explain what's wrong with systemd there little buddy.

>little buddy
Seems like you're mad that I called you on your bullshit.

Derp met with skepticism. Fight skepticism with more derp.

All software written in C/C++ instead of Rust is fundamentally broken beyond repair.

This includes both systemd and the linux kernel.

NT access control is fundamentally better then UNIX.

>Rust
Oh, then Rust is fundamentally broken.

Yes, you got me. I'm very very mad.

Now, how about you explain what's wrong with systemd there little man? Right now it seems like you have no knowledge of the subject. Seems like I was right all along.

>completely and utterly avoids answering the question
>completely and utterly BTFOs himself

Why would I bother? I use systemd and rather like it. This doesn't mean I'm ignorant of its criticisms, and you shouldn't be, either. Of course, you're not. You know how to use Google like everyone else.

Still not sure why you're trying to hide your asshurt behind some arbitrary set of rules meant to be able to dismiss any and all criticisms of systemd. It isn't without flaws, some of them rather glaring.

So when will Linus lose his shit and start writing an init system?

>This doesn't mean I'm ignorant of its criticisms

idk bud looks like you might be from here...

How about you get to work explaining them, eh?

>Its not ME that's stupid, its the QUESTION that's stupid

Why? You're already aware of most, if not all, of them. The issue you're having is that you don't know enough about what you're doing to be able to address those criticisms to someone who actually does know their stuff. Since that's a fight you can't win, you've taken it to Sup Forums - hoping to be able to successfully argue against people you believe are as ignorant of the subject as you are.

I say keep using systemd. I plan to, at least in the foreseeable future. You're eventually going to bait someone into having the argument you're desperately looking for, but I'm not that user. No amount of shitposting and weak attempts at reverse psychology are going to change that.

Iirc that is how Git development started, he was bitching about svn and tarballs and cvs and all that

Why do you even respond to shitty old bait that's posted in every systemd thread?

Because it isn't bait. He's not actually trolling. Oh, he'll try to play it off like he's trolling if he eventually ends up losing an argument, but he's not here to troll.

linux has been a rudderless shitheap like this for it's entire life and you open sores laugh at windows users

Wasn't there that root vulnerability where if you had numbers in your username you'd get root privileges, which was reported to high heavens by everyone, but the systemd team and pottering in particular just went "Meh that's not a security vulnerability because you cannot accidentally put numbers in your username" and closed it as feature-not-a-bug and refused to actually fix it.

Windows doesn't even have anything to begin with.
It's just one big blob.

Have cancer? Might as well get AIDs to go with.

It's really just trolling at that point.
There have been countless threads with proper criticism that couldn't be refuted just for the very next thread to have this shit again.

That's what happens when someone likes Thing, and can't accept the fact that the hivemind they're desperately seeking acceptance from doesn't like Thing.

linux is replicating blobs that all attempt to outshit the last guy with poorly coded software

The motivation behind it doesn't change the fact that it's just lazy trolling and should be ignored.

>he knew what i was doing and why
>better try to play it off like i'm someone else and bury the subject

Yes let's give that retard more "(you)"s so he can convince himself he's an "epic troll".

So far you've proved you have absolutely no knowledge of the subject. Instead of proving your knowledge, you're telling me you have it.

You clearly a brainlet trying to come across like you know anything about the subject matter. No amount of trying to talk around the question is going to change that.

You've still provided no explanation. Nobody has.

I get this STRANGE feeling from all of your posts that maybe you're the sort of person who maybe, I don't know... likes to subscribe to ideas for the sole reason of getting pats on the head from peers who hold baseless opinions on things they don't understand?

>So far you've proved you have absolutely no knowledge of the subject.
I wasn't aware I needed to.

>No amount of trying to talk around the question is going to change that.
What question? What's wrong with systemd? I'm not here to answer that. Your Uncle Google already did ages ago, I'm sure.

>likes to subscribe to ideas for the sole reason of getting pats on the head from peers
Sure. That's why I'm a systemd user. Everyone else here absolutely loves it, and we have circlejerk threads about how great it is all the time here on Sup Forums. You should join us.

I'd take the advice of everyone else in the thread and stop posting mate. Seems like you're just having a meltdown now. Time to take a break.

Yeah, I'm obviously teetering on the very edge of sanity. I'll try to reign it in before it's too late.

"Do one thing and do it well"
-- Cheese Is Aitch Christ

To approve of SystemD is to go against the teachings of our LORD

And yet the guy responsible for GNU has stated, multiple times, that he has no use for the Unix Philosophy. Why would you expect anyone else involved in GNU/Linux to follow suit?

Because he's wrong.

That's great and all, but it'd probably be far easier to just migrate to a system that values the Unix Philosophy if that's what you're looking for.

That's because he's not a fucking developer, hasn't been for a long time. His last big project was emacs, and he stepped off that a long time ago. His work on emacs should be a clear indicator that he's a lisp machine guy, who used Unix as the model for GNU because it was hot shit at the time of GNU's inception.

Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that a Bazaar-style system is never going to properly align with your views on the Unix Philosophy, let alone completely embrace it. A migration is probably in order. You're fighting a long, uphill battle you have no chance of winning.

Horses for courses, mate. If it does what I want, I'll keep it until something else works better for me. However, as a programmer whose married and gets laid at least five times a week if I'm asked my opinion then I know for a fact that the unix philosophy leads to tight-ass, elegant code. RMS is after free code, not tight-ass, elegant code.

One last thing, I have Poettering down to follow Hand Reiser into the history books, either as murderer or victim.

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t.CIA Nigger

>I know for a fact that the unix philosophy leads to tight-ass, elegant code
I agree. I'm just saying that GNU/Linux is never going to embrace this philosophy, least of all in the manner you're probably hoping for.

Just because people want to write shit software doesn't mean it should be tolerated. They should be flamed and mocked.

But that isn't going to get you anywhere. You should be focused on your own computing needs, and make choices based on that. If Gadzooks/Loonix isn't doing what you need, in a way that agrees with you, then leave it behind.

I'm not hoping for linux to embrace the Unix Philosophy. It'd be great if it did, but that's not how FOSS works. If I wanted that, I'd jump to BSD

Haha yeah. I totally get what that means to me...

I do use software that suits my needs, but just because software is suitable enough for enough users, doesn't mean it's good, and we should strive for goodness in all that we do.

This is the real question.

And it makes me want to spend more time trying to grok the kernel code. Sure it's a lot of code, but most of that is drivers for specific hardware and can be safely ignored unless I need to work with that specific hardware...

That might be pretty funny.

THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING WRONG WITH SYSTEMD

what did you expect from an abusive personality like Linus?

Slackware is pretty perfect, imho, and if the systemd infection spreads, I can always move to a bsd.

You say 'move' like its a threat, but sure that could happen very easily.

The linux kernel used to use a version control application called bitkeeper until the dev withdrew the kernel project's right to use it. Since bitkeeper was proprietary and there was no suitable replacements for it in the free software community Linus wrote his own version control software that was like a clone of bitkeeper.

Honestly, I think systemd is bad just because of Poeterring himself and his gang.
Every once in a while a new bug appears and what does he do:
Blame the user.
It's becoming a pattern in systemd development.

Can you read?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

tl,dr:


Write programs that do one thing and do it well.
Write programs to work together.
Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface.

Any questions, dumbfuck?

>Write programs that do one thing and do it well
systemd does one thing: manages the userland
>work together
all systemd sub-projects work together
>text streams, universal interface
DBUS is the new universal interface

BTW, Linass, where the fuck were you while SystemCancer was metastasising?

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"I remember being severely disillusioned by this in my early days. I read some article that explained how a "spell" program can be written to report the spelling errors in a file. It uses 'tr' to split into words, then "sort" and "uniq" to get a word list, then "comm" to find the differences. "cool" I thought. Then I looked at the actual "spell" program on my university's Unix installation. It used a special 'dcomm' (or something like that) which knew about "dictionary ordering" (Which ignores case - sometimes). Suddenly the whole illusion came shattering down. Lots of separate tools only do 90% of the work. To do really complete work, you need real purpose-built tools. "do one thing and do it well" is good for prototypes, not for final products.
The thing that annoys me most about systemd is that I didn't write it first!"

- Neil Brown
lwn.net/Articles/576078/

...

>I read some article

Meme'd by a journalist. Got what he deserves.

I'll >snip< the rest of his bollocks because all of it follows from a faulty premise - that journalists tell the truth.