Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ

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i bought an i9-7900x
how fucked am i?

better keep a fire extinguisher by your computer just in case

>when you can actually see the massive throttling happen
Wew

Keep a bucket of water near you at all times.


Safety note: electricity and water might lead to adverse side affects.

Bretty good if you want a housefire and you have insurance

depends on your what you use it for but it's always going to be a house fire.
That's what you get for falling for the ((poorfag)) meme.

tomshardware.com/reviews/-intel-skylake-x-overclocking-thermal-issues,5117.html

>Skylake-X at its stock settings can barely be cooled during normal operation.
>There’s barely any room for enthusiasts to overclock.

downclock it to 4ghz and you might be fine

What are you poor can't even afford a industrial chiller

They just use the proper equipment.

are you gonna delid VRM, too?

/r/intel damage control squad already on the scene

>Anyone new to this high wattage stuff, the solution is simple: get a 40mm and 2 zipties, set it above the VRM heatsink so it's blowing air upwards, and hook it up with zipties, and your MOSFETs will drop like 20 degrees. This is all it takes.
>And, judging from this review, and all of the 7900X reviews that are using a case and not a zero airflow test bench, you won't even need to do that.

JUST TAKE OFF THE FAKE VRM COOLERS AND ZIP TIE SOME FANS BRO NO PROBLEM. XTREME PERFORMANCE!

>Staple two already-hot i7 processors together
>Wonder why everything is melting

You'll never be cold in winter again. Smart choice, user.

This is what we used to do when we were overclocking 65nm and 45nm processors on LGA775
It's not new, it's just all your fucking children have never experienced hardware that actually ran at high temperatures so shit doing this at stock is some big heinous mystery to you.

Big difference between doing that ghetto shit on overclocked consumer CPUs versus HEDT CPUs at stock.

This makes it ok does it?

You're right. Which is why this is a big step backwards back into shitville.

Not really, since most motherboards at the time had fucknormous heatsinks and active fans built into the VRM/NB/SB heatsinks.
I'm not saying it's an excusable design flaw, I'm just saying this shit isn't new.

So it's confirmed that Skylake X can use up to 378W or so from the CPU alone at 4.6Ghz, and that full power draw is up to 500W. Does the VRM really use 100W of power and it's still not enough?

That isn't even the craziest graph. The cores are hitting 100 degrees whilst the heatspreader isn't even hitting 30. That's fucking insane. The power draw would still be off the charts even with solder, but at least you might stand SOME chance of keeping them it from throttling. Instead they chose the absolute cheapest, most bottom of the barrel thermal paste they could find and it's barely transferring any heat away from the cores to the heatspreader.

Delidding is essentially mandatory to use these chips, even at stock.

Throttle-lake

Ready for some xtreme OCing.

It runs cooler than my old 8800 gt

All of this is really making a strong case that intel panicked and rushed this out to answer Ryzen and Threadripper. Power usage is terrible because they had to push clocks high or they wouldn't be able to deliver compelling performance vs AMD's much cheaper offerings.

I don't think Ryzen is what they're really afraid of though, I think they're afraid of AMD's 7nm parts.
If Global Foundries facilitates AMD bringing a 10% IPC uplift with 15% to 20% higher clocks then intel won't have any recourse. Right now pushing clocks high is all intel can do, and when AMD can do the same its not going to be good for intel in benches. AMD could have an 8c/16t part with a 4ghz base clock and still fit in a 95w TDP. They could potentially reach those clocks well under 10w per core. Kaby Lake on intel's 14nm+ process takes 12.5w per core to hit 3.6ghz.

user 7nm LP is tailored for 5ghz operation.

I wonder just how much could be fixed had they used solder and not paste.
Obvious the chip can do more, but it's being held back thermally.

>Tomshardware.de
>power consumption testing

Pick two. These guys have some serious gear for extracting all kinds of data when it comes to pc component power draw and if they are saying shits on fire yo you better believe it. Not that I personally have that problem.

Thats a target fmax they want logic to be able to reach, those clocks come at the cost of power however. 14nm LPP had a target fmax of ">3ghz" and we see exactly where Zen is most efficient at 3.3ghz and lower.
The range of 4ghz to 4.5ghz is ballpark where we'll see Zen2 land. Something like an IBM POWER9+ on 7nm would come clocked at 5ghz because power usage in that segment can be justified.

If we account for uncore drawing 15w, then Ryzen nominally pulls 10w per core underload with its 3.6ghz base clock. If, and this is an enormous if, AMD had a 7nm Zen 2 chip reach 5ghz at 10w per core then they'd be looking at 4ghz around half of that power. That'd work out to a 4ghz 8c/16t part at 55w, likely lower as lower clocks come with lower uncore draw. That would mean a 3ghz chip would easily fit into a small laptop. It would mean that their server parts would be utterly unparalleled in efficiency. It would be such a massive industry shake up that it would change the computer landscape forever.
I don't think thats quite going to happen.

We'll see.
Also Intel's 10nm node is piss.

>post

Lets run with this hypothetical of what Zen2 could me - the possibilities it opens up design wise in the console space (which are always TDP contrained) are staggering. It gets especially interesting for APUs.

>console space
Irrelevant, since margins are basically nonexistant.
What matters is laptops and datacenter.

For money sure but there is more to a modern cpu or gpu than the silicon itself. In fact the ecysystem is probably more important (see why CUDA is so dominant). With the nuances of GCN and ryzen - in this hypothetical - influencing game engine design (among other things) has some far reaching implications for the likes of Intel and Nvidia. AMD is going to take years to crack the data centre open.

>J-J-JUST WAIT FOR SKYMEME-X

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

THE ISRAEL PLANT MUST STAY OPEN!

>For money sure but there is more to a modern cpu or gpu than the silicon itself.
It's still mostly silicon. Ecosystem is important in data center, and AMD has established it for EPYC.
>AMD is going to take years to crack the data centre open.
Hoo boy 2 (TWO) hyperscalers are starting rollouts 2H 2017.
Fucking Opteron Dual Core got 25% of the data center market in ~2 years.

>throttling for continuous >0.5s intervals
wew, that's way worse than previous reports

DELID THAT IMMEDIATELY

So they watercooled the CPU, why weren't they watercooling the VRMs?

>0.5s
I just noticed that's actually minutes and not seconds!

HOLY-O-FUCK

That makes my dual X5690s look fucking amazing and I'm using stock heatsinks in a Dell T7500.

Honestly I'm sure if Intel just took Westmere, put it on a smaller process and glued two 6 cores together on a single die it would probably still perform amazingly even by today's standards.

Forget that, why wasn't the entire system suspended in mineral oil? I'll tell you why, it's because it's a paid AMD promotional piece that fuels antisemitism.

They used a fucking FRIDGE to cool it and it was still not enough.

I couldn't see the images because fuck them for not showing the images without JS, but aren't phase-change coolers strapped just to the CPU and not to any surrounding components? Were they doing what that one guy did and taking the VRM sinks off and blowing air on them?

single processor package not die. My b.

Either way, Zen2 will be significantly more efficient than Zen, and clock higher for less power. Its only a question of how high.

I think without a doubt we'll see some Zen2 based chips work their way into notebooks as small form factor mobile workstations. We already have 65w Ryzen 7 1700 with somewhat competent clocks, and that isn't too far away from 45w which is a well established bracket for mobile parts. Manufacturers well know how to design thermal solutions for 35w to 45w chips. Hell, one version of the Macbook Pro carried a "47w" Iris Pro Haswell chip that consumed 90w under full load.
The potential for a 35w Zen2 equivalent of the R7 1700 is very real, and thats the type of thing too good for an OEM to pass up.

Laptops, small form factor systems, thin client, data center, these are the areas where AMD will hit the hardest. Of course an APU will benefit in kind. Cut the core count in half and add an IGP, and you're still basically working with the same power draw. APUs however are more likely to scale down to the extreme in TDPs, to 15w and below. Ultabooks and convertible tablets would shine with that sort of hardware. Competent IGP performance is lacking in this area.

Good Jesus, what are they using? That must be as inefficient as peanut butter.

At this point, peanut butter might be more efficient. Make sure it's the extra creamy, though.

wow, it's useless.

You're not funny.

Whatever it is, they should start selling it as a thermal insulator instead.

Lipids are great heat insulators, and pb is pure fat, that HAS to be peanut butter.

You're funny.

What in the actual ever loving fuck, so much spaghetti from this terrible release. It's not like the enterprise will pick up EPYC day one when stability is a big name. Some will risk it due to the nice features, but it's not like everyone will just drop their retardedly expensive xeons overnight. TR will obliterate their HEDT market though, they have no chance when the 1700 itself is already a vastly superior buy and it's comparable to entry level TR.

End yourselves.

Intel's management is falling apart.
Executives trying to branch out into segments they have no hope of competing in, giving hundreds of millions to PR diversity nonsense, firing 12,000 American workers to replace with lower paid Indian H1Bs, not hiring enough competent engineers, investing in and buying out toy companies for billions.
They have no idea what they're doing.

This further supports my theory that Intel doesn't want people to overclock anymore.

The keep making OC unfriendly.
hard to De-lid skylale-x
Bad Tim
Bad his to chip tolerances
Vrm cooling is lacking

STOP OVERCLOCKING!

>no overclocking
>intel can sell ever increasingly segmented SKUs
>charge a premium for every added 100mhz

This does seem like something they'd think up.

They literally said to not OC their 7700k.

Would make sense if it wasn't their "enthusiast" HEDT platform. They just fucked up, that's all.

A true Enthusiast™ would pay more for a certified higher factory clocked chip to get more Performance™

We need to get a group buy of delid this case badges going.

When the fuck is TR coming out? I wanna see some buttblasted Intel fags.

Isn't it this month? I'd say August at the latest, they already showed boards and the package.

August

Ah, a member of OCN I see! Them poors shouldn't be allowed to overclock if they can't afford the best - thats why I buy Intel™

intel brand mayonnaise strikes again!

Fuck the fire extinguisher, you'd need a damn Halon system to suppress the house fire 7900x will cause.

How is this a 140W TDP part?

If you only run it for 45 seconds a 140w TDP seems reasonable.

TDP isn't actually the maximum power you can make the CPU draw for a sustained period of time, its the guideline they chose for how much power the CPU will probably draw over a sustained period for most workloads in typical conditions.

In other words TDP is basically a number they pull out of their ass that may sometimes have some vague relationship to what the CPU actually does. AMD and Nvidia do this shit too.

It's 140W TDP "under specific circumstances"

TDP definition changes for Intel every few weeks.

But you can't show that in the windowed cases anymore! Does nobody think of the appearance?

>LavaLake

Had to do it on AM3+ boards for piledriver too, my crosshair got toasty even with my average 4.5GHz OC.

TDP is a meaningless sticker for any chip manufacturer. Not relegated to Intel. They all use different, self serving definitions.

A 4ghz Ryzen R7 pulls 200w or close to it. TDP means fuckall, It's usually calculated at stock voltage and no boost clock.

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You know that OCing Ryzen over 3.6GHz gives some insane diminishing returns, right? Process limit.
That's why a 1700 uses almost half the power of a 1800X at stock but it's only some 20% slower.

>4.5ghz

This is what I was pushing on a board vastly inferior to the crosshair.

...

Remember the reports of some 4770K and 4670K throttling at stock? Intel had to improve the TIM when they released the 4790K and 4690K.

Yet they had to release this new shitter. Maybe because no one complained last time.

It's because the company is ran by bean counters who don't know shit about engineering think saving a few million in packaging cost is worth your reputation down the shitter because "only nerds and extreMEEEE overcockers care about these things"

I only had it because I managed to get it for $100 used/refurb from a warehouse sale to replace the same board you're running on, funny enough.
And for the record, I was able to get mine to 4.8 or 4.9 stable, but I didn't want the daily use voltage to be something ridiculous.

Someone on reddit used a proper toothpaste as TIM for his i7-7700k and it performed better than the stuff Intel puts in.

They've gone too far this time though. These things can't even be cooled properly at stock, let alone overclocked. They could shrug at the previous housefires and say overclocking isn't recommended (and indeed voids your warranty), but this is a whole different level of incompetent.

>And for the record, I was able to get mine to 4.8 or 4.9 stable

I never maanged to keep my little 8320e stable for more than a few minutes at 4.9ghz because the board simply could not handle the power draw. This was even with a siler arrow cooler with the front fan replaced with a 3500rpm delta fan and the TY-147 (or whatever the fuck the thermalright that shipped with the silver arrow is) blowing over the motherboard vrms to provide additional cooling. The abuse that system took from me was incredible given I was pushing both the chip and board way beyond their intended use case.

appreciate the analysis.
this post is like chemotherapy that doesn't make you sick.

Piledrivers were fucking workhorses through and through, can't agree more.

Can you run these chips on air cooling?

[audibly chortles inside]

To be fair they were designed to take way more punishment than was sensible for a desktop platform. A good chip could take 1.6v 24/7 if you kept it (and the vrms) cool enough.

Feel like catching tornadoes?

Yeah, if you have decent over-ear headphones.

Are you willing to use three-amp, 250-CFM, 65-decibel, 120x120x38 Delta fans? (fans, plural)

ever set off a wall mine in Splinter Cell?
that's how fucked you are

if they dont switch to solder this is dead on arrival.

you can tell its just a heat dissipation issue now.

I refuse to believe it's just the TIM

It's probably

>low amount of copper going into the IHS or generally shoddy IHS construction(bean counter fault)
>gaps between the IHS and die(assembly fault which no one cares to fix)
>TIM(bean counter issue)

Just TIM alone can't explain these ridiculous temps.

You're forgetting how they pushed the CPU way past its comfort zone.
The temps would be ridiculous even if nothing but clocks and amount of cores changed.