>“Net neutrality” isn’t what you think it is. It won’t “level the playing field.” It will introduce government regulation to a nearly flawless model of free-market growth.
>Telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon and content providers like Netflix push an almost geometrically higher amount of traffic onto broadband than they accept. As a result, the broadband providers have responded by raising rates and/or lowering speeds (aka “slow-laning”) some content.
>Essentially, monster telecoms and content providers — Netflix is the most famous example — are demanding first-class seating in a 747 while paying jump seat-in-a-Piper prices.
>And they’ve managed to convince millions of people — not to mention the Democratic Party — that they’re the proverbial little guy, standing up to the corporate fat cats.
>Having successfully played themselves into the hearts and minds of every selfie-posting hipster from Brooklyn to Berkeley, they’ve further pushed the idea that the FCC should force the broadband providers to adhere to a federally structured framework of service and fees.
>Gigantic content delivery networks (CDNs) will now be able to dictate the terms of their agreements to broadband providers upon pain of civil — or even criminal –prosecution.
>Telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon and content providers like Netflix push an almost geometrically higher amount of traffic
Telecoms were given four hundred billion in goverment funding to upgrade to fiber.
Where's the fiber?
Nathan Young
Considering that the ISPs have been trying to throttle and restrict services and being slapped down by the FCC for years.
Aiden Taylor
>telecom also pays to lobby against rural ISPs even though they refuse to provide service in those areas and are afraid of 'muh profits' >there's proof that they have throttled and blocked apps/platforms in the past to promote their own Three sheckles have been deposted into your account, Chad Lobbycuck
Hunter Nelson
>a nearly flawless model of free-market growth
If it's a flawless free-market model, then why does 50% of America have no choice of ISP, aka local monopoly?
Aaron Evans
Its flawless my dude, don't question it.
Joshua Brown
>“Net neutrality” isn’t what you think it is. It won’t “level the playing field.” It will introduce government regulation to a nearly flawless model of free-market growth.
I like how all net neutrality opponents act like we don't have it now. Net neutrality is leaving things AS THEY ARE. Introducing "fast lanes" for ISPs puts the internet in control of the powerful, just like everything else in the world, because only huge corporations will be able to afford the "fast lane" costs. New start-ups who can't afford the fees will never succeed or compete with current players because their websites will be slow as fuck.
Net neutrality guarantees innovation, ditching it just makes ISPs rich.
Dominic Perry
False. Fuck the ISPs.
Levi Gomez
Because this is not a free market, Comcast. Verizon, and friends are in bed with the government. The barrier to entry is so ridiculous even Google is struggling. Ajit Pai is actually doing something to solve the underlying problem instead of playing the regulate a monopoly game.
Ryder Watson
It's not like free market solutions work in most real world applications anyway. What is Pajeet doing to solve the underlying problem?
Blake Powell
>muh free market >ISPs have a monopoly in several areas Amerifats are this retarded.
Oliver Murphy
True
Jayden Flores
Cause we have shitty laws made to keep monopolies for ISPs
Daniel Butler
>unironically being against a regulation that prevents the jews from stealing your shekels Enjoy paying extra for accesing certain websites. Enjoy having your torrents limited to death, even if they are perfectly legal downloads. Enjoy having to use a VPN 24/7 so can evade your ISP's arbitrary limits and blocks without paying.
Michael Murphy
How much of a tool can you be.
It was not enacted until *2014*. Google, Netflix, Reddit, and all the other dumpsters advocating for it are 3 years old? Was there some surge in "innovation" since then? This is just them trying to avoid paying for their disproportionate backend usage.
Fast lanes is a moot point as they did not exist prior to the law and large players already have an advantage through things like peering agreements or Netflix open connect.
This does not at all fix the issue of bandwidth allocation. Instead you are seeing data caps springing up in areas and things like T-Mobile binge on where they throttle you to 480p in exchange for data. Would you rather Netflix subscribers pay some more for their disproportionate
>It's not like free market solutions work in most real world applications You're a complete idiot.
>Hey look a monopoly caused by government regulation, let's regulate it some more!
Grayson Ramirez
Net neutrality has always been a thing despite not being the law. The reason it was made law in both the US and EU is precisely because of rumblings within the industry that ISPs were planning to ditch it under the guise of video streaming taking up so much bandwidth (Comcast in the US and Virgin Media in the UK being the immediate examples). Instead they've invested in utilising technologies such as multicast to reduce bandwidth requirements rather than stifle competition on the web.
I don't know many specifics about the US regulation but getting rid of net neutrality would be a bad thing, user. Data caps aren't really a thing in the UK for fixed broadband connections, the ISPs just segment based on connection speed and other services like TV, cloud services, and WiFi hotspot access. Works pretty well here.
>Hey look a monopoly caused by government regulation, let's regulate it some more! Most government regulators are in the back pocket of industry lobbyists in the US anyway so the fact that the Title II change happened was pretty surprising in the first place. I am not surprised that most regulations help the ISPs become mono/duopolies rather than prevent it.
However, it's also a pretty dumb fallacy to think that because regulation A isn't good that any and all regulation will be bad.
James Rogers
>under the guise of video streaming taking up so much bandwidth And they would be 100% correct. Netflix is 35% of traffic, streaming is >70% at peak hours and rising.
But if you would rather get throttled and deal with data caps or subsidize Netflix subscribers go ahead.
>Instead they've invested in utilising technologies such as multicast No they haven't. Multicast predates this and is not really applicable to Netflix. And overall investment is down in general so I am not sure where you got this idea from.
>I don't know many specifics I've posted specifics. And this is just stuff some neet found in 5 minutes of research.
>Data caps aren't really a thing in the UK for fixed broadband connections And they weren't a thing here until recently. And for fucks sake stop comparing Europe to America. America is a larger landmass with literally half the population. No shit infrastructure is worse as it's far less economical to build it in the first place. If you want to see the path America is headed towards look at Canada.
>it's also a pretty dumb fallacy to think that because regulation A isn't good that any and all regulation will be bad Title II dates back to the 1930's and was never meant for ISPs. If this is not a bad regulation I don't know what is. Don't forget the portions I've posted above as well. Also I would like you to go ahead and show me where I said or implied all regulations are bad.
I would like to note that there are literal hundreds of shill articles focusing on a cherry picked handful of companies to somehow disprove the above studies. Even ignoring that simple growth does not show anything at all (if instead of a 10% increase we saw 5% would that be good?), this is just blatant intellectual dishonesty.
Joseph Adams
>Comcast Internet Defense Force, the post Net Neutrality is the radical notion that Comcrap and AT&Shitty aren't allowed to treat websites differently based on if the websites pay them money or not. It's literally an excuse for big ISPs to get bigger and block out little ISPs.
And quite frankly, if you've EVER had to deal with Comcast's bullshit, you'd be completely in favor of NN. I've had more problems with Comcast in the past year then I had with Wide Open West in the 5 years before that.
Andrew Bell
>Netflix is throttled to 400kb/s on your ISP >You're currently paying for 100mbit >Netflix counts against your data cap >Comcast streaming doesn't
BOY I LOVE THE FREE MARKET AND ALLOWING ME TO CHOOSE WHAT I WANT. THANKS Sup Forums FOR TELLING ME NN IS BAD IDEA. I REALLY LIKE MY CURRENT SITUATION AND I THINK NN IS A TERRIBLE IDEA. THANKS POL
Brandon Lopez
>content providers like Netflix push an almost geometrically higher amount of traffic onto broadband than they accept so fucking what? the end user pays for the amount of data consumed by them. what the content or origin of that data is, is over 9000% irrelevant. every single packet could be diffrrent content from a different site, or all of it could be the same stuff from the same site. it makes no goddamn difference in any fucking way and the end user will pay the same cost for the network capacity they occupy in either case. what kind of fucking retarded corporate cuck comes up with non-arguments like this?
you americans are as laughable as a people as you are as a country. the literal and figurative toddler country of the world, with the intelligence of a fucking fetus.
Landon Garcia
>Netflix is the most famous example — are demanding first-class seating in a 747 while paying jump seat-in-a-Piper prices. the web is a pull medium. netflix isnt demanding sufficient network capacity for the whole of their output, its consumers are. and those consumers are in fact paying for exactly that. that they all want to access the same content from the same origin is completely irrelevant in every way from the network provider's pov.
do americans just swallow anything tgeir corporate overlords throw at them without thinking for a second?
Chase Carter
>This is just them trying to avoid paying for their disproportionate backend usage. Netflix literally offered free cache servers so ease on the bandwidth usage and Comcast declined.
>This does not at all fix the issue of bandwidth allocation. That issue doesn't exist. If I, as I client, decide to spend all my bandwidth with Sup Forums or netflix or niconico, my ISP shouldn't interfere at all.
Brody Nelson
>that they all want to access the same content from the same origin is completely irrelevant in every way from the network provider's pov.
the ISP's POV is "people are willing to by netflix for shit going over out lines - how can we profit from that?"
>OP' think more money for ISPs will lead to more bandwidth and investments
Jackson Myers
*willing to pay
Brody Scott
...
Lincoln Martin
Fairly sure a seat on a Piper is more expensive than a seat on a 747?
Isaac Lee
...
Justin Hall
...
Hudson Jones
FREE MARKET DOES NOT MEAN FREE OF REGULATION OR GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION
Brayden Edwards
...
Adam Howard
...
Ethan Perry
...
Gabriel Bell
MOVE TO CANADA O V E
T O
C A N A D A
Matthew Hernandez
...
Xavier Long
Wouldn't help. Once the US does it, everyone will do it, and our internet will become nothing more than television with a different name.
Sebastian Davis
>another net nuetrality shill thread fuck this I'm adding net nuetrality to my filter.
Ethan Smith
>free-market growth there is no growth in isps because they collude with each other to monopolize areas and fuck customers as hard as possible because they have no alternatives. they don't improve their services either because of the previous reason, most customers have no alternatives and are stuck with whatever isp dominates their area.
Xavier Ramirez
That's almost the truth.
The complete story is: Netflix does also have to pay for bandwidth. They pay for the part from their servers to the internet exchange.
Consumers pay for the part from the internet exchange to their home.
This makes perfect sense and is how the internet has always been organized. But now downstream ISP's suddenly want a part of the upstream ISP's cookie. - it's like someone owning a bridge over the Mississippi river demanding toll for cars crossing over the Hudson.
Noah Nguyen
...
Owen Fisher
True and false. The unreasonable demands for transit of the massive media companies are bad. The clear price-gouging and collusion that happens in the service provider space is also bad. Net Neutrality simply keeps the status quo. It's potentially worse than that when you consider that it's the green flag for those prospective higher prices in the internet service market to become the base rate for future pricing.
Either the government regulates these providers, or customers continue getting fucked. This neutrality subject is bike-shedding.
Easton Hernandez
...
Michael Martinez
Absolutely false, this isn't some kind of resource like water that is an otherwise renewable resource or a nonrenewable resource.
Its not some supply and demand thing. The internet doesn't have to be rationed its not some shit like this.
"first class seating on a 747" what a shit metaphor
Luke Green
>This is just them trying to avoid paying for their disproportionate backend usage. It's not netflix using the backend, but the consumers wanting to access netflix. And guess what: those consumers pay for the amount of data they consume. That they all want to access the same thing has 0 effect on anything and can't be a basis for extra fees or other political bullshit. People pay to consume a certain amount of data per month. That that data is netflix videos means nothing, they paid to have your network transfer a certain amount of data, end of story. The origin or content of each packet has no technical bearing on anything.
Evan Wilson
Basically my exact fear of Title II. We've been beyond all hope for years now.
Aaron Hall
>the ISP's POV is "people are willing to by netflix for shit going over out lines - how can we profit from that?" I was talking from a should-be perspective, not from the fatcat's desired pov
Xavier Hall
If you don't fight against them, they'll win by default.
That's why corporate lobbying and shilling works so well. They can pay useful idiots to post the same thing every day to try and consensus crack whatever communities they're working in, for as long as it takes to accomplish it.
You have to fight back and inform people what net neutrality actually means.
Thomas Jackson
The EU already has laws against it, and they won't change any time soon.
Although the EU net neutrality laws aren't as strong as I would have liked, we don;t have American style censorship here.
I am actually quite excited becasue this is a huge chance for Europe to overtake America in internet businesses.
Samuel Cooper
I came to Sup Forums to talk about technology. Not politics. I WANT Sup Forums TO LEAVE.
Isaac Diaz
...
Gavin Hall
Politics effects technology
And this isn't Sup Forums doing this. The entire website - Sup Forums, Sup Forums, and Sup Forums in particular are being targeted by anti-NN shills.
It's not coming out of Sup Forums (although shills want you to believe it is); do you see the arguments I've been posting? They're all from Sup Forums.
Sup Forums is as much against repealing net neutrality as you are. Virtually the entirety of people arguing in favor of repeal are ill-informed, or genuine shills.
Elijah Lewis
>willingly comes into a thread discussing technology affected by politics >MUH Sup Forums
Landon Baker
>Essentially, monster telecoms and content providers — Netflix is the most famous example — are demanding first-class seating in a 747 while paying jump seat-in-a-Piper prices. What a load of barnacles, they pay for their internet access at the backbones, we pay for ours at our last mile, but somehow the ISPs are entitled to more money being paid to them for... what exactly? They are paid for the connections, why would we pay them per photon and electron traveling across it?
Jason Hill
I have yet to see evidence yet that this is really paid shills and for a while I thought it was just a bunch of ancap retards but some of this does seem more oragnized.
Isaac Clark
>boohooohoo why aren't all threads about desktops and mechanical watches boohoo
Hudson Ortiz
I suspect they are just dumb American brainwashed by TV ads.
Noah Watson
Samefag trying to troll
Lucas Campbell
Affect is the verb, effect is the noun.
Nolan Morris
i am not at fault for the isp over provisioning i will not accept the consequences for their stupidity i am entitled to the minimum advertised speed agreed upon for my lease
Tyler Nelson
>citizen wants access to the internet >citizen enters a contractual agreement with an isp for access to said internet >he pays monthly installments for unlimited or data capped data access to said internet, as per contract rules >isp is obliged to provide the access the installments pay for, again, as per contract rules >somehow, because said citizen and some others have a preference for site "X", isps are now mad that the have too much bandwidth going to site "X", wanting therefore to charge site "X" and trowing constant tantrums about it >somehow disregards the central fact that citizen already paid for said access to site "X" >still, isp has the gall to claim that citizen and other costumers won't be affected, won't be double charged, because if they charge sucessfully site "X", there is no way the company wont repass these costs to the citizen and other costumers (cucks) >no bussinesses hae ever repassed costs downwards, ever
Why is it so hard for jews to understand? We need a second and final holocaust asap. Take the useful goyim with the package as well.
Caleb Richardson
This, NN is fraud protection. This is necessary in a free market since fraid violates the NAP.
Angel Price
Break up the ISP's
That's the real story here. They've made it clear that they aren't going to let up on this net neutrality thing, so we have to go on the offensive and break the monopolies and destroy these companies with anti-trust lawsuits.
I'm surprised google, et al, haven't already jumpstarted this course of action with their lawyers and lobbysists.
Jacob Myers
>Netflix literally offered free cache servers so ease on the bandwidth usage and Comcast declined. Hahahahah no. I don't think many people realize just how deceptive and fucked up netflix is. For example *they* were the ones actually caught throttling: wsj.com/articles/netflix-throttles-its-videos-on-at-t-verizon-phones-1458857424
>That issue doesn't exist. If I, as I client, decide to spend all my bandwidth with Sup Forums or netflix or niconico, my ISP shouldn't interfere at all. No the issue does exist whether you like it or not. And either the costs get passed down to netflix subscribers themselves, everyone pays, or we deal with throttling/data caps. And I am definitely not dealing with the last 2.
Ethan Long
>EU beating America The only thing EU has is a bunch of black people and Muslim rapists. At least Western Europe.
Isaac Green
You have far more blacks than we do.
Gavin Jackson
Not only that. But switch services as well. Cox Cable internet here is having caps with 1tb a month with 10$ overage charges per 50gb. But CenturyLink is 20mb no caps is a better alternative even if it is a bit slower.
The less relaint we are on these huge cable companies the better we will be for it in the long-term.
Brayden Phillips
So if there's a problem with how the laws are set up now, why don't I notice it when watching Netflix? I'm not seeing any slowdown with streaming if I'm not saturating the download speed I'm paying for and Netflix doesn't seem to have any trouble uploading if they're not saturating the bandwidth they pay for. How is any of this a problem in need of change?
Christopher Bennett
Seriously, fuck Cox.
Our speeds have gone down and a data cap was added, yet the monthly bill keeps going up.
Gabriel Gray
These:
And these:
Aiden Thomas
Absolutely it has been bipolar as hell and fluctuates a ton. I pay 75$ for 100mb a month. Next month it changes though I am going to CenturyLink for their unlimited service that is only 50$ a month. It might not be that fast but there is no caps and overages. Also I am going to buy my own modem and wifi(heard default modem is terrible). I would suggest you and anyone else do the same for now. We need to send a message to these cable companies with our money.
Luke Powell
Sounds like a problem you need to bring to your local elected officials.
Brandon Brown
Who the fuck said it was?
Brayden Nguyen
>Hey look a monopoly caused by government regulation which was caused by corporations lobbying to their political bedmates to eliminate competition and weaken the free market, let's monopolize it some more! ftfy
Zachary Reed
>No the issue does exist whether you like it or not. Prove it, Chaim.
Cameron James
Won't do much, unfortunately. Local official granted them their local monopolies.
Zachary Campbell
Yeah it is, and we really need to start getting to work on this.
We left this shit alone for way too fucking long and now they're trying to completely destroy the internet because it wasn't enough.
No. We HAVE to take this back to the ISP's now. We have to start lawsuits against them, we have to start getting them broken apart. They pushed, and we need to push back, not let them push and push and push until they eventually succeed.
We need people to start working out how to FIGHT BACK. Organize, attack the ISP's. We won't win anything if we let them lobby and shill like this. It's time to lobby and shill for THEIR destruction.
Colton Peterson
Nice royal we my dude.
Brandon Long
Better than giving (((Wall Street))) complete control. I wonder who signs your paychecks? Talk abuot CLECs or kill yourself.
Leo Jackson
Lets look at the conflict of interest here. Comcast, for instance has a trifecta. They own the content, the means to produce the content and the pipe to the content. Netflix always gets picked on because they are direct competition premium content industry. Having media giants like Comcast make it extremely difficult to have a rule set on fair use since the entity that owns the pipe also is a direct competitor to everyone else producing and distributing content.
Once more and more super media conglomerates have total control (and they will, its only a matter of time) you will be paying much more for far less.
I'm not presenting the right or wrong here. But as a consumer I would be concerned if you enjoy the easy access to many things the internet has to offer.
Brandon Miller
You want me to prove that rapid increases of bandwidth utilization over a short time period of time impact quality of service?
Brody Davis
>why don't I notice it when watching Netflix Fun fact: Netflix's ISP is Amazon.
Ayden Russell
That's the ISP's problem If their customers are paying for a certain amount of bandwidth, and they can't keep up, then that's their fault for overbooking their decrepit networks and not updating it.
Jeremiah Davis
>>“Net neutrality” isn’t what you think it is. I know what it is, everyone (here) knows what it is by now. > It won’t “level the playing field.” It will introduce government regulation to a nearly flawless model of free-market growth. the "nearly flawless" is a really poor description of the current ISP situation. If they weren't doing anything, why would a regulation that says they can't be a problem anyway? >>Telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon and content providers like Netflix push an almost geometrically higher amount of traffic onto broadband than they accept. As a result, the broadband providers have responded by raising rates and/or lowering speeds (aka “slow-laning”) some content. And that is a problem. If your netflix video streaming stops stuttering and you get high quality by using a VPN to access the site, there is a problem. Data should be data. Consumers pay a monthly fee which should cover the maintenance and expansion of the network, content providers pay for a connection to deliver content to the consumers. Everybody is already paying to be on the network. >>Essentially, monster telecoms and content providers — Netflix is the most famous example — are demanding first-class seating in a 747 while paying jump seat-in-a-Piper prices. So raise the prices for netflix. >>... pushed the idea that the FCC should force the broadband providers to adhere to a federally structured framework of service and fees. What do you think the FCC should do? >>Gigantic (CDNs) will now be able to dictate the terms of their agreements to broadband providers upon pain of civil — or even criminal –prosecution. So companies shouldn't be penalized for breaking or changing the contract without the other party? They are all huge evil corporations who want to screw over the customer, I get that, but intentionally slowing down specific sites because you have a competitor is malicious too. >True or false, Sup Forums? mostly false.
Landon Baker
Yes.
What do you mean by "rapid increases of bandwidth utilization over a short time period"? What do you mean by "quality of service"? In your view, how can the service have not been already paid for, by the costumer? What does it matter the packets go to a gorillion diferent places or a single site? How is that a problem on the client side and not on the server? How does this affect your routers? If quality of service is suffering, what is that so? Could it be the case that ISP are simply selling bandwidth capabilities they cannot deliver?
Many anons already came forward with great points, yet you are just stomping your feet claiming the oposite, with no proofs to back up your claims. You're not very good at shilling Chaim, I'm going to speak to Ephraim at management about your case.
Jayden Wood
>Could it be the case that ISP are simply selling bandwidth capabilities they cannot deliver? Probably not. They can deliver. They just choose not to. It would be nice if someone would put a boot in Netflix's ass and get them to start collocating their data with ISPs, without all the collateral damage of paid prioritization which, incidentally, takes up router resources for doing things other than routing. But, being Amazon customers, Netflix already pays their muh metered shekels for the service.
Dominic Allen
You know net neutrality is fucked right? Right?
I mean, don't be reneging now that you elected Trump into office. They do not give a fuck about a few million 'I want my youtube )': )': ' letters.
This is nothing you can do at this point. If you're going to get fucked, you might as well enjoy it, and you did fuck yourselves over on this one.
Colton Lee
Government control of the internet will end in disaster and censorship. The "net neutrality" topic is a meme meant to mobilize the masses into agitating for their own censorship.
The FCC is not your friend, being unallowed to say certain words on the radio is bullshit, and the net neutrality law that Google and friends are supporting specifically OUTLAWS some types of speech online.
Net neutrality means giving the government additional control of the internet and what people can use it for.
inb4 >muh Netflix
Wyatt Brooks
It's a price we must pay to make America Great Again® :^)
Isaiah Sanchez
Agreed. To make America Great Again, we must sacrifice net neutrality
Charles Moore
Net Neutrality doesn't even apply to mobile ISP's yet it's not full of censorship there like you retards claim will happen.
Ayden Rivera
>Net neutrality means giving the government additional control forbidding tampering and opinionated meddling by ISPs != relinquishing control to the govt, you idiot. They dont get to meddle any more than the ISPs do
Matthew Long
I pay for Netflix can they not slow it down Jesus fuck
Owen Rodriguez
because right now doing so would still be political suicide for them
stop fucking taunting companies to do bad shit, so fucking sure of yourself they won't do it. They will if you let them, and everything you idiots are doing now falls under letting them, even daring them to
Leo Cox
Retards like you using Netflix 24/7 are the reason everyone else has slowdowns.
Better pay up.
Mason Baker
Actually I think mine lets me use their video service and it doesn't count against my data usage
Brody Myers
They already pay their ISP for every gigabyte. Try to keep up.
John Lewis
I like how you ignore the blatant government censorship, you cuck
Asher Nguyen
I ALREADY DID, YOU ALREADY DID, EVERYONE ALREADY DID!
You pay for a set bandwidth, and it doesn't matter what or where that data comes from, you're paying for the right to access that data at the speed you pay for.
Ryder Hughes
Because there's no Net-Neutrality with mobile ISP's.
