Do you support the idea of the United States of Europe? Why or why not

Do you support the idea of the United States of Europe? Why or why not.
What do you think is the best form of government such a union would have to work the best?

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I support idea of political body that would unite nations of Europe under a single banner and assure them mutual security and prosperity while preserving their spirit and culture, and that would promote their shared interest vis-a-vis rest of the world while providing opportunity for economic competition as well as cooperation between its constituents.

If "united states of europe" would work towards this goal then yes, I support it.

fuck off and kill yourself

yes, but not before reforms make EU institutions fully democratic and limiting national influence in Brussel.

>assure them mutual security and prosperity while preserving their spirit and culture

That's exactly what doesn't happen though unless you can do it without actually creating a separate federal government or you wind up with an ever expanding federal power that exists for itself and gradually takes control away from the states and ultimately the people while forcing their own agenda and ideals which are usually those of huge globalist corporations who don't give a shit about anything or anyone other than their short term stock market gains.
You can have some half ass democratic process to supposedly choose it's leaders but even so you wind up with the huge bureaucracy they create which is filled with unelected officials who really don't answer to anyone so you can change the head but the beast stays the same. And never mind the taxes it needs to "function".
I think it's better to stick with trade and defense deals between the separate countries. Europe hasn't needed to become one united country to accomplish all it has in just the past 60 years.

No. It's more than enough that we have shitty bureaucracy on a national level, no need to add another layer in there.

Besides, there is no Europe, it's a vague geographical term at best. European Union is a wet dream of "let's all be friends" cosmpolitan liberals. The kind of people who would want to practise socialism with human face. It's only a question of time before they fuck up Europe irreperably.

I loathe and abhor the name, but I support the concept of a federalized Europe (as long as the name isn't USE).

I think the best government form for this union would be a federative parliamentary republic with an executive head of state. The central government would control foreign policy, defence, border control, and a first level of taxation and market policy. The member states would control everything else.

hmm, that sounds vaguely like another union of white states that became centralized and completely subservient to its federal government after not even a century on another continent... can't quite remember which though.

Do you support the bloated mess that is the United States of America? Do you want that for Europe? Do you want the power concentrated in one easily lobbied area? Are giant unions a mistake?

sorry to answer a question with questions

no because fuck you

No

Because I don't want to see individual Euro countries dissolve to fuel the fantasies of megalomaniac politicians.

The US isn't that centralized. The individual states are quite different in many ways in spite of 3/4 being cultural photocopies. If anything they lend weight to federalist ideas.
Besides, you seem rather spooked. Your city is already subservient to the polish government, why is being subservient to the european government any worse?
Nationalism is good, but be careful not to be memed into loyalism.

>why is being subservient to the european government any worse?
Because it's not Polish, and even worse, it's German.

No, a single federal European state is the best way to make Europe completely irrelevant.

depends on the countries included.
We also have a kanguage issue indeed.

If its like a giant switzerland Im all for it.

Yes. It is the only way for Europe to remain relevant at world stage.

They would need to change a lot of flags and values. A new union must be much more religious and military. Nobody respects this tolerance cuck union.

>Because it's not Polish
But it could be. It's only german now because half the union wants to shove its own head in the sand and ignore continental politics.
Besides, why is polish identity any better than european or cracovian/varsavian/gdanskian identity?

Yes, I support idea about United Socialistic World Republic of Communism

theregister.co.uk/2016/07/03/mri_software_bugs_could_upend_years_of_research/

Sadly my dream of changing people's values via non invasive mind altering methods might be impossible in my lifetime...

If this happens, we'll see a confederacy win this time.

Can't wait for Euro-Klux-Klan 2bh.

>Do you support the idea of the United States of Europe?
no, because my country is affected by shitty politics from other eu countries so get out

No, both because it's against the interests of Switzerland and because I think it's a shit idea in general.

Yes, now that Britain is out its the best time to do it

>What do you think is the best form of government such a union would have to work the best?
Only federation, pretty much

No, I don't support globalism. And will be so happy when the EU collapses.

Maybe it has something to do that people in power of your country are fucking bananas

>my country is affected by shitty politics from other eu countries
such as

>complains about "shitty" EU politics
>literally can't even form a functioning government
I don't even like the EU but that's just fucking rich

Yes.
I would die for it. More than I would die for France.
Long live Europe, long live European people!

No, because I don't support an union of countries which don't have anything to donwith each other. The name is false, the flag is meaningless, the currency is as globalistic as possible, there is a lot of bureaucracy, religion isn't accepted and Finland and Portugal are in the same union. Why would anybody want such union. As a Dutchman I feel connected to the higher countries, like Germany, Italy, Austria, etc. But my country doesn't have anything to do with Finland...

Jewish rabbi「Communism is false theory for Judea national liberation.」

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If there weren't a EU, who would countries blame for their terrible policies not working out?

No, it's agaisnt the laws of god.

Themselves, because they'd actually be the ones making their own policies.

I did not at first, but then I got a job working for the EU and the pay and benefits are amazing

So now I do

The idea sucks.
Different cultures, different languages, different national identity, different history, different religions, different work ethic and life styles even shared by most of the population, it'd never work.

You'll just kill Europe by turning it into one super country where all the states are artifically glued to each other like puzzles that don't fit but you force them together.

fuck you piere I don't want to live in a union where the French control anything

I thought our bureaucracy and centralization was bad, but yours is completely out of this fucking world and would make the soviets blush

yes why wouldnt you want to be ruled by (((german))) lobbyists forever lol

Yes, only globalists and peoples who only care about $$$ want it.
Don't worry mate, this guy is just a EU shill.

I do. Southern Europe fiesta and siesta erryday, Northern Europe work hard for our welfare. It's the perfect union desu.

That's basically what happened to Italy in the 19th century.
Yeah, it kinda sucked in a lot of ways, but at least it mostly stopped foreigners from fucking with us and allowed some development.
Which is exactly what Europe needs, to stop the US and Russia to fuck with states individually and keep a steady economic growth.

No.

It's inevitably a neoliberal's wetdream and will destroy any semblance of the nation-state.

Authoritarian technocracy.

But you don't understand, the EU is US puppet.
The EU can't be trusted.
We'll all be better out of it.

I did at first. But then I saw that Merkel and Juncker created a lot of unfunded liabilities to the future European generations. They just invited millions of uneducated foreigners and expect us to pay for them for decades. I guess they thought European people would not see through this scheme. But now they have already made the UK leave the EU. To add insult to injury the Chinese are buying the most promising European companies and even some of our ports. Why should I sacrifice my work and future for these selfish politicians? I hope more countries are going to leave this union. Sadly we have to start from square one in this empire building life again because of selfish and greedy leaders.

>The individual states are quite different in many ways in spite of 3/4 being cultural photocopies.

No they aren't Europoor.

That happened with a lot of nations. But it's a bit fucking different combining close and similar nations and people into a medium-sized country than it is to combine a whole fucking continent with vastly different cultures, values, environments and languages.

It's not going to happen and that's a good thing.

yes because without eu our countries totally would not become puppets to either russia or usa

Yes, but I doubt it will happen. The idea of european federation is really old, and it had a good chance to work in the 50s. At that time a european federation with France, West germany, Italy and Benelux made sense. It was basically undoing the treaty of Verdun and restoring the carolingian empire.
Since then, things are different. The UK joined and always refused a political Europe and instead wanted a purely economic union. It's pretty funny that now the Brits obtained pretty much everything they asked for, they're getting out of the EU. Germany is also at fault. Germans allied with the Brits and understood this idea of economic union would strengthen Germany. Main reason why the EU expanded so fast after the cold war, so that Germany could take back its hinterland again.

>the EU is US puppet
If that were true, we'd have a much thougher stance against Russia and TTIP would have passed out of hand instead of being in the works for years.

>No they aren't...
...Different or cultural photocopies? It's unclear.

The Bureaucrats in Brussels should have very little influence 2bh

Countries vote to accept EU policies.

I want EUSSR to be real

You've not ever been part of the USSR or EU though.

The UN Parliament is basically continuing the unfinished work of Nimrod, the infamous tyrant, who was building the Tower of Babel to defy God.

The bible tells us that there was worldwide unity and harmony, a good thing, right? Wrong. No sooner is the whole world together then they immediately plan to overthrow God and “build a tower to Heaven”. That’s the result of bringing in World Peace without the King of Peace, Jesus Christ. We all know the story, the build the tower, make some pretty good progress right up until the moment where God confounds their speech with a multiplicity of previously unknown languages., and they are scattered. It looks like the modern-day European Union is headed for the exact same fate.

What we can expect to see from the EU on this path:

-A gradual introduction of tyranny
-The elimination of the worship of God to introduce dependence on power
-All people speaking the same language and the same religion
-Rejecting God while trying to become gods

It worked for the US. And it's not like Italy was all that similar either, especially from a linguistic point of view. English nowadays is far more common in Europe than italian was in Italy in 1861.
>That happened with a lot of nations.
Which is basically my point. It's literally standard nation building, opponents are more institutional loyalists than actual nationalists/patriots.

This "unite or die" argument is such bullshit.

Venezuela has literally no allies and hates America to the point where it does the opposite of what we want. Yet we don't invade it.

Why? Because in 2016 countries don't invade each other over anything short of existential threats. Russia only invaded Ukraine after it became apparent that the junta government would try joining NATO.

I definitely support it. Potentially it's the most powerful country in economical and military sense ever existed. For that you need a strong centralised government. Each part of the USE should't have any autonomy so they stop chimping out.

That was just a meme game I had in V2, Colgate

I'm just sincere.
I am paid to do way more productive things than shitposting on the internet.

I'm sure there are plans to invade pretty much every country ready in the US, and we won't know that they exist until like 50 years from now

this.

i don't wanna be governed by French And German Bureaucracy

They weren't before WW2.

This assumption that "united we are stronger" has been proven by the EU to be a lie.

You're being stupid and you know it. It's not about military invasion, it's about economic and cultural subjugation.
The economic aspect alone should be enough to push all europeans to support the united continent idea tbqh.

>EU
>united
I agree with the rest though.

>If that were true, we'd have a much thougher stance against Russia
How could you be any tougher?

>and TTIP would have passed out of hand instead of being in the works for years.

Maybe with a few cucked countries (UK) but definitely not with Spain, Italy, and France.

TTIP is taking forever because America is pressing its advantage. The current text is literally cucking the entire EU.

All country will be enslaved by the EU.
This will only brings bad things.
Plus we are country, not state.
I think it's make sense to wanting to take order from a bunch of corrupted politicians of the EU.

>This assumption that "united we are stronger" has been proven by the EU to be a lie.
Yeah right, as shown by Switzerland and Norway becoming the EU's bitches and the massive differences in equity between trade deals negotiated by the EU compared to individual nations.

>Let's be economically subjugated by the EU so nobody else can economically subjugate us!

>Countries vote to accept EU policies.

No the people do not.

That's why USA undermined in any conceivable way European construction this whole time.
That's why they flipped out when their trojan horse ((((Great))) Britain) decide to left.

All politician are corrupt in some extent.
EU is not the problem and if there is a problem, it should be adressed in some way that don't need the "auto-destruction" button to be pressed.

At last I truly see.

what is a representative democracy

It's shit, that's what it is

Not the EU.

thank god only autists on Sup Forums that have played too many Paradox games and a handful of bureaucrats actually want this shit

>It worked for the US
Yeah because almost all of them were descendants of the British. They shared a language, culture and values.

>English nowadays is far more common in Europe than italian was in Italy in 1861
There is no way in which you could peacefully force the people of Europe to abandon their languages. Not to mention how fucking horrible the nation is to begin with. It's an affront to everything that is holy and beautiful.

Secondly, while not everyone spoke Italian they spoke something similar to it, like Sardinian.

There is no guarantee that a EU superstate would be any better of than many nations. And you'd essentially wipe out thousands of years of history to MAYBE be slightly more influential in the world. It's disgusting to even think of. You can take your neolib marxism and shove it up your ass for all I and most other Europeans care.

When was the last referendum in the US?

But we are the EU you moron, can you be subjugated to yourself? This is literally the problem here, for some reason you people consider the EU some kind of foreign power.
Actually you as a swiss have a point here, since you're literally the EU's bitch, but that's your own fault for refusing to join: all the disadvantages, none of the control.

>Maybe with a few cucked countries (UK) but definitely not with Spain, Italy, and France.
Top kek. Once you get to the few cucked ones, the market differences would force the others to accept too, else they'd be excluded.

The US supports the EU more than anybody, stop talking out of your ass you paranoid frog.

so will you give back the money given to you by the EU?

The EU apply laws we do not want.

-2005 referendum was ignored.
-Loi travail come from brussels.
-All this migrants quotas is another horrible idea.
-The EU is most likely anti-farmer
-The EU want to ban ALL GUNS.

This is just an example of shit things the EU do.

> all the disadvantages, none of the control
They're literally one the most prosperous and free countries in Europe you dumb cunt.

How much are you paid for shilling this hard, terrone?

...

if it weren't for the EU to back you up you would have already been in a debt crisis much worse than you already are.

Not at all. We don't need to endure another "migration period" for a single market. At the moment the EU exists because powerful people want to control the Euro. The closer you are to the money printing source the more influence you have (as long as the system works and enough uneducated people (migrants) enslave themselves for you)

Now the European Central Bank starts printing money and loaning it to European companies. A few unelected people actually decide which companies receive the money that actually belongs to the Eurozone population.

tl;dr Europeans are being enslaved by the EU

>All the disadvantages, none of the control
As opposed to all the disadvantages, still none of the control, and having to get rid of the swiss franc? No thanks.
And what disadvantages beyond freedom of movement of workers? Contrary to what you believe, we aren't the EU's bitch. We adopt most of its standards voluntarily, because by all accounts they're pretty good.

Makes you think..

>Once you get to the few cucked ones, the market differences would force the others to accept too, else they'd be excluded.

Tell that to China with TPP. They don't join and therefore all the countries in RCEP aren't joining TPP.

The US voting system is fucking stupid. Why not just count every vote and rid yourself of gerrymandering and less than democratic election outcomes.

Really makes you think

>Yeah because almost all of them were descendants of the British. They shared a language, culture and values.
Yeah brit americans were literally a minority by 1900. Germans, irish, italians, slavs, etc flooded in.
>Secondly, while not everyone spoke Italian they spoke something similar to it, like Sardinian.
You literally mentioned a totally non mutually intelligible language with modern italian. And the same goes for venetian, piedmontese, sicilian, neapolitan, etc. In fact, northern dialects are linguistically closer to french and catalan than they are to italian proper.
>There is no guarantee that a EU superstate would be any better of than many nations. And you'd essentially wipe out thousands of years of history to MAYBE be slightly more influential in the world.
Why the fuck would I wipe away anything? What is gonna get wiped away? Your delusions?

They still have to comply with basically any EU regulation, in spite of having no say whatsoever on EU legislation.

>having to get rid of the swiss franc
You could just not peg your currency to the euro. That way you would not be eligible to introduce the euro. That's what we've been doing ever since the euro was introduced and why we'll never introduce it.

I don't think so, we can live without the EU.

America is not a democracy.

I appreciate and am jealous of the UK.

>Lemme tell you about YOUR union

>the EU is the same thing as the UNITED STATES OF GROSSEUROPA that a bunch of teenagers on a Japanese imageboard want to create
yeah no fuck off

China is comparable to the EU as a whole, not France or Germany tho. The fact that they can influence their whole sphere against you confirms my argument that Europe needs to either grow to that level of influence, or become a puppet.

>Yeah brit americans were literally a minority by 1900. Germans, irish, italians, slavs, etc flooded in.

Guess how many states were founded by then.

>EU
>globalism

You have to take the good with the bad.
No disadvantages, no advantages.

It literally is a global identity being put ahead of the interests of national identity.