Electrical Grid Thread

>what frequency should we use for our grid?
>Just fuck my shit up senpai
>say less

Also only 100 V

Other urls found in this thread:

environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/6/21/are-we-headed-for-a-solar-waste-crisis
blog.schneider-electric.com/energy-management-energy-efficiency/2013/03/25/how-big-are-power-line-losses/
insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/lost-in-transmission-how-much-electricity-disappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>anything below 220v
lmao voltlets

What the fuck is happening on Honshu? Are they still at war?

We SHOULD be using 24V DC and powering all homes with solar power and battery banks.

Until we wake up 120V 60Hz should be used internationally for safety and compatibility reasons.

>he fell for the solar power meme
>he doesn't know that GFCIs exist
>he doesn't know about joule heating
wew lad

We should just dump it ad go local generation. Isn't something like 40% of power generated lost on the lines? Anyway, 60hz, less need for variation with the world largest consumer.

>new technologies are less efficient than well-established ones !
woah !!!

>>he fell for the solar power meme
Each 300W solar panel averages around $200. 20 of those cost $4,000 and produce an average of 24kWhr of electricity per day or about 720kWhr per month which is more than enough for the average home.

>>he doesn't know that GFCIs exist
Installation and homeowner meddling is still pretty dangerous.

>less efficient
can't read the filename boss?

And why would we want to use inferior solar technology when nuclear exists?

You're probably more likely to die from falling off a roof working on solar panels than meddling with circuits.

Because the savings won't be passed on to you and it will more likely cost more over time than a 1-time solar panel installation.

>everything has risks
Okay, did you know there is a very small chance you could go to sleep tonight and not wake up tomorrow?

this motherfucker knows what's up

nigger

fpbp

>maintenace costs for solar installations and battery banks is less than nuclear power upkeep
Made me kek

Now show me how to solar power this?
Then why fret over 120 V?

because it provides me with energy without fucking up the planet with radioactive garbage
solar panels waste has known environnemental consequences at least
and it's nice to have a potential personnal energy production, people can't fuck me up as much by increasing my electricity bill

>build nuclear reactor
>takes 25 years
>regulations and taxes have changed so much that you're now 50% in the negative since the initial projected costs

Pretty much what happened recently in the US

"Radioactive garbage" is immobile and ends up sealed in a cask sitting in a secured nuclear facility waiting for final resting in a nuclear waste repository, it loses gamma radioactivity within 300 years

Solar waste ends up in Chinese villages and waterways

That's because sadly, the US fucked itself over.

Korea shows best practice, their construction costs follow a learning curve, and sit at around $2000/kWe

>he obviously doesn't understand how radioactivity works
lol how does it feel to be too stupid to understand physics ?
>"waste production"
it doesn't mean anything, what are these meme images

I'm pretty sure that day takes into account solar progression mandates. As far as I know, manufacturers are required to make a certain number of panels every year despite innovation, costs, etc. So there is a huge amount of inefficient older panels that were massed preduced that get thrown away because it's easier to make them and toss em then to deal with taxes

Woops, a typo on my part

The level of penetrating radiation (beta and gamma) falls to harmless levels after 300 years.

ecolo.org/documents/documents_in_english/ML-DechetsNUC-03-en.doc
environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/6/21/are-we-headed-for-a-solar-waste-crisis

Honestly it's parties like the Greens that fuck it up for us.

>I hate fossil fuels, stop using them!!!
>Ok, so here are some options. We have solar, nucl-
>STOP. NO RADIATION.
>But studies have shown it would be safe and generate much of the pow-
>REEEEEE

Fuck man.

it's really clear to me that an energy mix primarily based on nuclear but making the most of renewable sources is the best way forward. for some reason the renewable sources we are focusing on are the least efficient and productive ones, solar (photovoltaic cells) and wind, and untapped high volume sources of energy like hydroelectric are ignored - round here, if we put a dam on each stream, river and lake we could probably be energy self-reliant

We're focusing on them because of policy. Policy dictated by people who don't know science. I'm not for a technocracy but people that don't understand right from left shouldn't really be considered when making policies that might affect our future greatly.

underrated

>hydro everywhere
That would fuck up ecosystems

it would need to be decided on a case by case basis of course

>be local co op
>be eco friendly
>super left green/climate change regulation causes all my plants to not be worth their cost and residents can't afford to take the costs
>have to resort to cheaper and more destructive methods unless people don't want power

>not putting money in the most advancing tech besides hydro fuel cells

Only amerifats use 120v, so much for compatibility

Solar cell prices have plateaued now

They keep moving the goalposts until it's impossible for people to generate power at all. It's fucking ridiculous. They're not for being green at this point and are just anti-humanist.

>Isn't something like 40% of power generated lost on the lines?
I don't understand where the fuck you get those ridiculous numbers from. When we look at transmission losses from the power plant to your home, we get a loss of about 8 to 15% [1]. For the United States this varies
significantly depending on the state and they can get as low as 2.2% [2]. The losses obviously increase with distance but they decrease when we use higher voltages as we can keep the current and thus the losses
relatively small.


[1] blog.schneider-electric.com/energy-management-energy-efficiency/2013/03/25/how-big-are-power-line-losses/
[2] insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/lost-in-transmission-how-much-electricity-disappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/

Now fuck me for actually responding to your post.

>We should just dump it ad go local generation.
Just because I think your ideas are fucking stupid, have a second fucking shittily formatted post. Local power generation is a fucking retarded idea especially when coupled with renewable energy sources or even fossil ones. We often use gas power plants to offset the downtime in energy generation from solar panels when there is no or only little sunlight. While they are a relatively clean source of energy, you can't expect every neighbourhood to build their own. Both thermodynamics and waste processing make local power plants a horrible idea. Even the basic Carnot cycle tells us that a high temperature gradient means we can extract more energy. These simpler, local generators would, due to their size, not be able to reach temperatures comparable to big plants and would thus lose a fair bit of efficiency, thus necessitating more generators which would ultimately lead to more pollution. When you look at a big coal plant, they often have huge filters meant to filter many of the harmful components of their exhaust fumes. Building one big coal power plant and having one (or several) big filters is much more economical than building lots of small ones.

All of this doesn't take into account the various disadvantages of using solar or wind (batteries, upkeep and disruption of the grid). Both of these ideas are quite simply horrible and should not be pursued outside of a few select cases.

All of North America and much of South America is on 120V/60Hz, not just the US. We get along just fine with 120V and our smol cute outlets and plugs. Meanwhile bongs and friends need 2 stone 3 liter plugs and sockets to be safe, and have unnecessary switch and fuse bloat everywhere.

Is this pasta or did you really hammer that out in two minutes?

Climate change people don't know shit about the energy industry.
>sister starts barking about how she hates how we are not putting massive funding into solar and wind
>literally blow her out saying the only reason they are barely an option is because of government incentives
>innovation doesn't happen overnight and unless you're in a war you can forget about rushing things
>80% of burgerland grid is locally ran and owned because municipalities and IOU don't think it's worth it to venture out of the city
>trying to blanket regulate thousands of providers that all have different needs
If you love clean energy so much, why don't you have a solar/electrical powered car, water heater, and heating.
>muh money but the rest of the world should change
No shit that's why Europe is bending over why chinkland smokes their own crud for ez watts with no repercussions

>unnecessary switch and fuse bloat everywhere.
i mean you burgers make houses out of 4by4's and plywood , why bother w/ something stable and secure

also 230v or gtfo

I love nuclear power. It's relatively cheap and effective and you can use the waste to heat buildings.

>bongs and friends need 2 stone 3 liter plugs and sockets to be safe

That's just because their wiring is shit.

Mainland Europeans don't need that shit.

I had to butcher my stupid post because of the fucking word count limit.

b-bUT THE ENBIRONMENTTTT!!!

I fucking hate that those scum are wasting their lives not studying anything and creating anything yet have the fucking gall to cry about it. We would have had a lot more clean energy produced via nuclear if it weren't for the fuckhead policies and bullshit ideas pushed by retards like Al Gore.

True.

We could, for example, easily place solar panels in North Africa and send the electricity to all of Europe.....if only the Allah Ackbars wouldn't destroy them.

>and you can use the waste to heat buildings.

Aren't nuclear plants usually located too far from cities?

Excess heat from natural gas plants are often used for city heating.

Masonry buildings burn down too. Curtains, carpet , furniture, etc. All burn pretty well.

You can pipe steam a surprising distance, but it's probably not worth the cost. Better off using low grade waste heat for desalination or chemical refining.

user, would you please stop baiting/making these horrible posts? It would make more fucking sense to put a nuclear power plant in the desert than to use fucking solar panels. While there aren't that many cloudy or rainy days in the desert, you have sand. Fucking metric shitloads of nothing but sand. Photovoltaics in particular lose a gigantic portion of their efficiency with even the slightest bit of dust on their panels. Now for dust and sand you could easily wash it off but they'd be in the desert, where using lots of water for cleaning is not a possibility. Adding to that, while transmission isn't as much of a problem as one might think (especially with new HVDC lines) there is no existing ifrastructure that would support this kind of endeavour. Together with the costs of the panels and their maintenance this entire project is economically just not viable at all.

When electricity was introduced to Japan two different companies picked it up the north east and south west, one picked 50Hz the other picked 60Hz.

When it finally covered the nation they realized they had a problem and had to install frequency changing stations between the two grids.

It's still a problem because some appliances use the sine wave for timing, so some 50Hz appliances won't work properly in a 60Hz zone, etc but for a lot of things it just doesn't matter, especially things that convert to DC.

No, I still think Muslims are a bigger problem than sand and dust.

>some appliances use the sine wave for timing

Can you give an example?
Just curious.

Many cheap alarm clocks use mains for timekeeping.

This is why capitalism without government regulation is a terrible idea.

Things with AC motors. Possibly microwaves (my microwave is 50Hz only).

With a ageing population they dont have reason for use one hertz, the consumer are too old for understand with is important.

Hmmm...I assume the timing of the electricity grid is extremely accurate over long time spans?
ie: it's always exactly a fixed number of cycles per day/month/year/century?

>Things with AC motors.

Won't they just turn a little faster or slower?

I know the pump in my espresso machine uses the sine wave to move a piston.
So it would pump faster in 60Hz areas than in 50Hz, but that doesn't matter because the pressure is regulated by a flowback valve.

>Possibly microwaves (my microwave is 50Hz only).

Yes, makes sense because microwaves need to emit a specific frequency that excites water molecules.

>1 time cost
Nah man. Solar panels degrade to the point where they're only half as effective after 10 years. Meaning they'd have to be replaced quite often over the lifetime of a house. Inverters aint cheap either.

>24V
nigger what the fuck are you doing

>cloudy days make your entire electricity generation enterprise unstable

Mains energy distribution is absolutely essential as a fall-back system even if you generate your own power. Not having it means you're going to have to fuck with batteries and trust me you don't want to do that.

nigger

Just because something is made out of brick or stone doesn't make it invincible. Across middle America where tornado occur a brick house can still end up being unsafe to inhabit after a tornado because of cracks in the wall from being pelted at with debris. It's just make sense to use wood.

Also in the last 20 years concrete has been the main building material. Wood isn't used as much anymore and probably in another 20 years most houses will be concrete.

Second best plug coming thru

Why doesn't power go from AC on the grid to transformers at each house, then DC inside the house? We've created an immense waste of resources where every device has to convert to DC AND down the voltage at the same time.

This might also encourage the creation of DC appliances like condensers, which would be great for power a house using solar in a place like, I dunno, Florida, where the power usage peaks while the sun is fucking blazing.

200v 50w
anything else is just government ( see marine ) surveillance.

AC is still used in a number of appliances for reasonable reasons. Perhaps it would be better to convert the DC to AC instead but the major problem is doing it NOW, after everything has been set up for AC delivery.

>50w
200V 0.25A? Fuck that shit you nigger whore.

>Also only 100 V
Requiring twice the amps is a good thing? These voltlets...

Captcha: Europa perolles

>making argument to ants

THIS

WTF does it have to do with capitalism? The grid was built during a time when the main application (light bulbs) didn't give a shit about 50 or 60 Hz.

you need dams for metropolises, although even those have damaging effects
problem is nukes wont last forever, just like fossil fuels.
better battery tech and better solar absorption

>better battery tech and better solar absorption
is still required to be considered replacements... some tech looks rather promising though

Bwhaahahahaha

Yes we north Americans really want to run a line to the europoors and sync with their grid

And Oh yes sir I'll enjoy your 24vdc every 2 digit watts of it.

Gotta boil water? Got a few days? Just gotta wait till it's sunny for a week!

Omg my fuckin sides.

>fuck off fagget you have no idea what you're spewing.
>300w
>24kwh/day
Nigger wut?

Slight irregularities like this are beautiful though.

>problem is nukes wont last forever
No, but it's predicted that we have enough uranium alone to last 500-1000 years, and that excludes reprocessing.

It's something that has to be maintained by the power grid company, but most do adjustments every week or whenever it gets a certain amount off.

Most of the time when they require more power they just add more phases, and split the home into more circuits.

Like my induction stove top had a 220V breaker dedicated to it, and so did the aircon if I remember correctly, also on a separate circuit.

I want to strangle anyone who hates fossil fuels but considers Nuclear Energy a no-go boogeyman.

>implying it isn't going to be used to mine asteroids
we don't have enough of the stuff senpai
tbqh using it as a major power source on earth is such a fuckhuge waste when looking forward.

It takes a special defecit of empathy to want to strangle people of the only nation in history to have been nuke bombed, and among the few nations to have been severely irradiated by accident.

240v 50hz master race

The Japanese aren't particularly hypocritical about things, so I didn't really mean them.

I'm talking about the fucking brainlets in the USA and Europe who whine and whine about coal and oil but refuse to even accept the idea of nuclear energy.

If the Atom Bombs were that horrific to the point that it makes them not want to do nuclear energy, then they wouldn't have built nuclear power plants, and Fukushima was the product of mismanagement and poor practices, not anything inherent in Nuclear power generation.

Idiots like you who use muh fukushima and muh chernobyl as examples of Nuclear Energy being bad, and not examples of Capitalist and Communist bungling are the bottom of the barrel.

There are plenty of people in Japan who have resisted and continue to resist the use of nuclear energy in their country as a result of the horrific experiences suffered by their countrymen from the atom bombs. The presence of the plants isn't somehow proof that they don't exist. They are still people who hate fossil fuels but consider nuclear energy a no-go boogeyman.

Whatever the cause of Fukushima, which I would argue should fairly include the preceding act of God given its devastating scale relative to what anyone could have prepared for, it's still going to leave a mark on people that would take some level of empathy to understand.

I never once said that nuclear energy is bad. At most what I implied was that wanting to strangle people is bad.

Here's one final bit of food for thought: isn't it a good way to describe the "bungling" by saying that it was ultimately a lack of empathy by those in charge toward others? Don't call the person appealing for empathy blind to failures of empathy.

If the powergrid isn't in perfect sync, it collapses.

>we don't have enough of the stuff senpai
We have enough Thorium though, and there are breeder reactors.
>tbqh using it as a major power source on earth is such a fuckhuge waste when looking forward.
Burning up the oil that makes every facet of modern life possible is a good use compared to nuclear fuel that can be constantly recycled?

Why are there switches on 240v receptacles? What happens if you yank the plug without turning it off?

>low voltage DC
we don't have enough copper on this planet

50hz so that when recorded sound on ungrounded audio equipment everything has that "serial experiments lain" sound to it

Nothing?

Why are the no switches in the rest of the world?

Its so nice to just flip the switch and turn something on or off.

>Nothing?
I thought maybe it would arc.
>Why are the no switches in the rest of the world?
>Its so nice to just flip the switch and turn something on or off.
I agree with you second-worlders on this.

>nuclear fuel that can be constantly recycled?
lol not yet, probably not ever.
thorium is a pipedream and hopefuly works out as expected

It will only arc if you have something like a hair dryer on and slowly pull it out.

even then the pins are coated in plastic so you cant touch the live


RCD' are on most circuits, not just in the barroom

Happened on Long Island a few decades ago and the plant was abandoned halfway in construction. The LIPA power bill to this day still has added fees to compensate losses on their NPP

Fuck off with your persuasion techniques I won't have sex with you

Niger

Don't go there!

Europe is pretty good about nuclear. Of course if varies, but France is making 80% of their power with it.

>Why are there switches on 240v receptacles?
So you can turn off devices without unplugging them.

You forget industrial equipment, some of which wouldn't work nearly as efficiently under 50 Hz

Seawater uranium can last millenia

Even though it costs twice as much, fuel costs mean little to nuclear generation.