What went wrong? Was it Radical Islam that destroyed Islam?

What went wrong? Was it Radical Islam that destroyed Islam?

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*that destroy Iran

Iran is pretty ok.

It's just demonized in the Media for not being western cucks.

This.

Samefag

I can tilt my flag the other way too, Aziz

Marg bar amrika tbqhwyf (to be quite honest with you family)

brits and yanks removing secular leaders. they did it back then and they continue to do it today. How come they keep getting away with it?

Russia has to put an end to them.

trust me you don't want the kremlin leading this shitshow either

Fuck ir*n pig

I don't hate Iran very much, but we'd better side with US and Turkey.

We have big diaspora in Iran, and persian humiliated, does not allow education in mother tongue for azerbaijani turks
wanna assimilation.
but Iran when we go back 100 years turks managing. 28 million persian 35 million azerbaijan turks-turkmen living in iran. when times come iran will return turkic again.

people waking up
youtube.com/watch?v=PhwgyU7KZK0

The Government is GDR Tier but the people are pretty cool guy, from what i have seen many young people are no longer religious because islam has been coopted by their politics

You're doing the same things with Kurds. And I'm a Turkish living in Belgium, stop being an hypocrite.

thanks to Sultan Goatfondler you already share the same sets of medieval values in your government so its only a matter of time

>Islam destroyed Iran

Thankfully the Shia cucked Islam and transformed it into Zoroastrianism 2.0, if not iran would be like the other countries of the MENA.

Kardeş orospu çocuğumusun bana kürt savunuyosun burda, iflahını siktirtme amınakoyim

Ben sadece hakikati söyledim kürtlere karşı bi şeyim yok. İran'ı da savunmadım onlara ders vermeye yüzümüz yok yıllarca kürtleri asimile yapmayı çalıştık, bu iş böyle savaşmakla incirtmekle olmuyor ya onları kardeş gibi görücez ve savaş biticek ya onlar bizim götümüze k*rdistanı sokarlar. Avrupada herkes kürtleri savunuyor amına koyim bi gün avrupa savaşta onları yardım etse, Erdoğan NATO'dan çıkarsa ne olur sence? Bu savaşı bitirmeliyiz bunun başka bi yolu yok, daha fazla düşmanda almamalıyız

First the muslims came and shat on iranian culture. Then the mongols destroyed everything. Then imperialists gimped Iran's economic development. Then iranians thought Khomeini might actually save their country but he turned out to be crazy as shit.

biz açık açık destek vermeyeceğiz zaten. dünyaya karşı tarafsız bir tutumda gibi görünürken el altından iranda azerbaycan kökenli olanları örgütlemek silanladırmak ayrılıkçı propaganda yapmak lazım. bunun için devlet istihbaratından kişiler gayet kullanılabilir. 28 milyon fars var 40 milyona yakın türk var. avrupada kürt seviciliği azalıyor benim gözlemlediğim kadarıyla belçikadada almanyadada hollandada tonla akrabam var her yaz giderim. akrabalarla sohbet ettiğimiz ve gözlemlediğim kadarıyla bizim için durum o kadar kötü değil. malak adamla olucak iş değil zaten.

Always has been a shithole. Even under the shah Iran was a illiterate shithole, despite Sup Forums glorifying that cuck

Tamam diyelim ki türk kökenli iranlı'lar örgütlendi ve irandan ayrılmaya karar verdiler, bizden başka kim onları destekler? Amerika bile destek verirse rusya ayni şekilde iranı destekler, bu işin nereye varacağı belli, Azerbaycan güçlenirse iyi kürtleri rahat rahat sikeriz ama olmassa ağzımıza sıçarlar. mühim olan mesele Türkiye'nin güvenli olması, bunun için Türkiye'nin etrafında ülkeler savaş yapmamalı, yoksa beter oluruz

devletin imkanları ve müttefikleri elbetki vardır. muz cumhuriyeti değiliz. gerekli anlaşmalar konuşmalar yapılır bir sonuca varılır ona göre hareket edilir. temkinli bir şekilde yapıldığı zaman hiç bir sorun çıkmaz. israil tek başına tüm araplara kafa tuttu 1967de. isteme ve hırs meselesi bu. halkın desteğini arkaana aldığın zaman yapamayacağın şey yoktur. bunlar öyle ha dedikmi yapılacak şeyler değil, iyi bir hükümetimiz olsaydı yıllar önce bunun planlamasını yapıp işleyişe geçerdi gerekli zemin oluşturulurdu. örneğin en basitinden dibimizde bir devlet can veriyor. ve o devletin halkının yüzde 15 i türkmen, devlet ne bok yiyor türkmenler yurtdışına kaçıyor ölüyor katlediliyor, güzel politik bi zeminde sesimizi duyurabildik mi ? onları silahlandırabildik mi

Honestly I've been reading on this but how is Shia that different from Sunni besides the argument over who Muhammad left for his successor or some shit

Hangi devletten kastediyosun? Suriye deki kürdistan mı? Onlarda bi bok yapmazlar ışid ortadan gitti mi amerika destekleri keser, zaten şimdiden PYD Esed'le çatışmaya başladı, Rusya ve ABD Suriye'nin bölünmesini istemiyor. İrak'ta zaten Barzani Erdoğan'la iş birliği yapıyor, Türkiyeyle savaşı başlatırsa batarlar. Hemde İrana dikkat etmeliyiz nükleer bombalarıda var

Indeed the shias are worse than the sunnis, they hurt themself to "feel the pain of Ali". Some shia imams even allow pedophilia. It depends on the country, but I think that the ones in Iran are not that bad, Iraq is worse

Iran and the Iraqi government banned the practice of whipping yourself to feel the pain of ali

They did but the shias are fucked up they will continue this practice even if it's illegal. The governments banned this practice to give a better image for shias, but I know the things they do and they are the scum of this planet

Yeah unlike most people on this board I'm aware Shias aren't "based" and are the same or worse than sunnis in many aspects.

t. Asshurt Sunni bullshitting and acting like his terrorist sect is better

instagram.com/p/_rS6FPAIuy/

Typical shia

>instagram.com/p/_rS6FPAIuy

Muhammad married and fucked a 9 year old

Stop being such a salty Sunni fuck. You're probably one of the guys that helped hide the Sunni who bombed France and was found in Belgium.

That 1500 YEARS AGO. No doubt that it was an usual practice in Europe too. My grandmother was married at 14 years old, it's not shocking for me.

instagram.com/p/_FCEtxgIrC/

Here is another typical shia practice.

Fuck off Mahmut

If Muhammad is the PERFEVT man like Sunni shits believe, then his actions shouldn't change with the times

I never had a problem with a Shia but Sunnis are the worlds enemy

should go back to zoroastrianism

He IS the perfect man. There are not a lot of shia in Europe and America, if it was the case no doubt you will have more than one problem with them. They are the dogs of this planet.

Arabs was leaders of humanity in science and so on. And suddenly they become stupid, modern arabs. Why?

Chubek is white

Literaly.

instagram.com/p/-42GP9gIt_/

>Was it Radical Islam that destroyed Islam?
Yes, it should have stayed as folklore not serious political alternative

Better than being a shia

Your perfect man fucked a 9 year old

Your religion tells you to follow your perfect man. Muslims are indoctrinated to be pedophiles, beat their wives, kill non-Muslims, and everything immoral in the world a scheming Semite in the desert could come up with.

For fuck sakes, Muhammad was ILLITERATE. He needed Ali to write shit down for him.

piece of shit. Why do you live in Belgium? Your Muslim shithole is Muslim, go back there.

Fucking ISIS agent.

May Allah guide you my friend you seem very angry, I'm not a killer and I'm not violent, I will not beat my wife.

If I marry a muslim women, she'll know how to satisfy me and know what is her duty for being my wife.

I'm not a semite, I am Turkish but why should I move back there? I'm born and I've been raised in Belgium

You really need to calm down all this hate is not gonna help you

Stop playing the le peaceful zen Muslim

You were just saying Shias are scum of the earth

You are an ISIS sympathizing, piece of mudslime shit.

I bet you were happy when those over 300 Shias in Iraq were suicide bombed by your Sunnis brothers

But they ARE the scum if this planet. If you want I can show you thousands of shias acting like fucking animals. They want to kill every single sunni on this planet, Iran is constantly giving support to terrorist shias in Sunni countries.

instagram.com/p/BCpY4mfgIkz/

In this video they hang sunni muslims because their name was Omar and Abu Bakr, the (sunni) companions of our prophet.

And no I wasn't happy when they were dead, who could be happy for the deaths of innocent people? These people didn't do anything bad. But I'm sure you were happy when there were terrorist attacks in Istanbul and our holy city Medinah.

Leave this country, you don't belong here.

>few shias go full autism
yea sunnis are never batshit insane with thier theology, right?
you really want to play the game of who has been more oppressive to whom?

I'm not saying ISIS is good, but Shias are not better than us.

Fuck you Flemish

>but Shias are not better than us.
comparatively shia are much better
the levels of oppression shia have endured is much greater than that of sunnis

and its not just ISIS
anti-shia rhetoric is all over south asia and the middle east. Being a shia in those areas is worse than being a christian.

i'd rather have a shia than a sunni as neighbour any day, sunni are fucked up

What are the differences between Iran and Iraq?

Not defending anyone here, but the thing is this is normal in Turkey and probably most of Middle East as well. There are of course pedos in these countries (some of which are religious guys) but I kinda liked the idea of not having kids locked up with zero interaction with anyone besides their families. As far as I've observed kids play with other people without a lot of restraints and kissing a child does not make you a pedo instantly.

Oh poor shia ans christians :( the christians have oppressed the muslims all over the world for centuries stop crying. And the shia are tempting to shot the sunnis governments.

One of my teacher went to Iran fir christmas holiday, he told me that people were very nice and not that religious, so they are not crazy shias like the iraqis.

Otherwise Iraq is one of the most fucked up country in the world, the population there hate sunnis and they act like animals. Not everybody, but a good part of them. Kurds are okay.

This is NOT normal Turkey, certainly not, not at that age. Don't forget that Turkey is officialy secular, this is strictly forbidden to marry a girl that is less than 18.

Before it was widely accepted in the small villages, my family came from a village in the mountains, my grandmother has been married at 14 but it was normal, my grandfather is only 5years older than her, she wasn't rapped.

>thing is this is normal in Turkey
you would literally get murdered if you pulled shit like this in turkey

But I've seen people kiss little children. Not like passionately but like a peck on the cheek. I'm not saying pressing your face hard against a child is normal, from what I've observed kissing them on the cheek, playing with them or asking them to kiss you is pretty much okay. Which is what I thought was happening in the video.

>But Iran when we go back 10 years turks managing. 28 million persian 35 million azerbaijan turks

Turkey, is literally the worst person to be teaching against minorities being discriminated against.

You've murdered all the greeks.
You've murdered all the armenians.
You've tried to murder all the kurds (MHP with it's Operation Ergenkorn and Valley of The Wolves ((read the book))
You then banned the Kurdish language, Kurdish names and the letters x,w and j so you couldn't write Kurdish letters.
You're now back to besieging Kurdish cities (Diyarbarkir) and trying to eradicate them.

But yeah sure, Iran is the evil one here :)))

Main idea of your post remains valid but:
>You've murdered all the greeks.
Not really, it was population exchange. But they did confiscate their property I think.
>You've murdered all the armenians.
Yes.
>You've tried to murder all the kurds (MHP with it's Operation Ergenkorn and Valley of The Wolves ((read the book))
I don't think they're related. Isn't Ergenekon was something army related that were against the government?
>You then banned the Kurdish language, Kurdish names and the letters x,w and j so you couldn't write Kurdish letters.
Kurdish language was banned I think but not anymore. Letters were never banned as far as I know.
>You're now back to besieging Kurdish cities (Diyarbarkir) and trying to eradicate them.
This is the part that is really subjective. Although I'm completely against operations in urban areas, there are some valid reasons like Ankara bombing (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2016_Ankara_bombing) done by the organizations that started armed conflict in said cities. So I'm not sure.

Turkey is not the good guy definitely but neither is Iran.

Like so many other problems in this world, this is often attributed to imperialism.

The establishment of true dictators, only happened during imperialism.

You see, before imperialism, the shah/king/sultan still had to uphold some sort of standard for his citizens. Granted this was much below his own life standard, it was not uncommon for peasants to revolt if the king was too bad at providing security and a certain level of life.

I.e before imperialism the monarch had to abide to his people, constantly tending their needs.

But then came imperialism, and the true dictators. The difference between the monarchs and the dictators were, that the dictators couldn't care less about the people. They just had to abide to their Western overlords, provide them with resources and the Western overlords would help them crush any rebellion.

So all of a sudden, you have a leader, whom is acting directly against in the needs of the people. Which just created this downwards spiral.

And a thing that didn't help, was the US using Middle Eastern proxies (Iraq,Kuwait, Israel,Al Qaeda etc) in order to further enhance their own interests and at the same time shitting on the lives of the Middle Easterners.

So short answer:

The French,Britts,Americans and a few crazy arab leaders.

>Isn't Ergenekon was something army related that were against the government?
The prime minister(s) at the time knew about it, they just didn't have the exact details.

But yes, it was mostly commited by generals and other military staff. The problem is just, that most of these generals never faced any consequences (I only think 2/50-60 head planners faced trials).

And the fact, that the political party which organized all of this (The MHP) is still alive and thriving today. And many still share their views, it's the 4th or 3rd biggest party in Turkey to this day. And many of the people involved in Ergenkorn are still a part of the party.

>This is the part that is really subjective. Although I'm completely against operations in urban areas, there are some valid reasons like Ankara bombing (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2016_Ankara_bombing) done by the organizations that started armed conflict in said cities. So I'm not sure.

I completely understand, that this might be slightly subjective.

But besieging more or less 500.000 (most of which are civillianz) people for the crimes of a few, is just wrong. Imagine all of Texas being besieged for the recent sniper-incident, makes no sense.

Also, the problem isn't only the actual actions. It's also the mindset in Turkey.

Kurds consist of 1/3-4 of Turkey's total population, still the turks feel that they've GIVEN the kurds a party (HDP). Not that the kurds have a right to a party considering their size, but that they've benevolently been given one.

There's still a lot of racism towards kurds, who're to this day, regarded as 2nd hand citizens.

Oh yes of course, those are pretty normal. But in this video, what this man is doing is not normal

Correct me if I'm wrong, I just speak from wikipedia and short Turkey experience but haven't Turkey had a Kurdish president (Turgut Ozal I think) or Kurdish ministers? I mean I have a short experience but I was able to meet Kurdish people as well and it looks like Kurds who are okay with assimilating are treated okay, that being said I've never met a hardcore Kurdish nationalist.

Also doesn't HDP support Kurdish guerilla? I had read somewhere that they even had a meeting or something to honor the perpetrators of Ankara bombing. I don't think there exists a party that denies all the armed conflict and also supports Kurdish rights movement.

>But besieging more or less 500.000 (most of which are civillianz) people for the crimes of a few, is just wrong.
Completely agreed, that's why I don't support it and it's a terrible thing they're doing. But what I'm saying is they also have valid reasons given to them by the terrorist attacks carried out in different places, so this armed conflict makes it easier for high government officials to act based on the mindset you mention.

Is there a completely civilian Kurdish rights movement that unequivocally condemns the terrorist attacks and fights against the current government in the parliament?

The current government has nothing to do with the Ergenekon project. It was the deep state, when mafia had links with the MHP. The army had also a big role in the government at that time, but Erdoğan cut all the links between the army and the government. I know that they don't have been punished, but at least the government no longer have links with these terrorists mafia. MHP is currently the 4rd parti, after the kurdish party.

Finally I agree with you on this point, there is still a lot of racism against kurds, but those operations are necessary to clean the region.

>Kurds who are okay with assimilating are treated okay
This brings me back to the assimilation part. Why should the kurds assimilated, when they've existed in the Northern-Messopotamian mountains thousands of years before the turks were even in Afghanistan?

>Also doesn't HDP support Kurdish guerilla?
Depends on which guerilla you mean.

The problems with the kurds (which we're also seeing in the Iraq/Syria conflict) is that they're divided. There is no ONE Kurdish movement.

If we're talking about HDP-PKK/PYK relations, they're hostile. During the civil war it was often the "passive"-leftists who were targeted, and the old HDP
>(old HDP = the different parties which were broken up once the armed conflict turned from party vs party to state vs party ((PKK attacking a military barrack in Diyarbarkir was the start of that))

- were the ones who suffered the most.

And the whole guerilla thing is a bit problematic.

You see, the whole guerilla movement started long after the random mass-executions had started. The MHP (disguised as para-military soldiers) would take random kurds and then just drive them off to a distant location and then just shoot them. Often they would also torture or rape the women. And seeing as it was de-facto (not de-jure) illegal to even call yourself Kurdish, there was no way for the kurds to be representated. There were countless of democratic Kurdish parties (all of them socialist/communists) at that time. But because of the before-mentioned circumstances they couldn't do a thing.

Which is also why, the PKK got so much support right after their first series of attacks on military barracks and armories in Ankara.

Now sadly, the PKK has turned to attacking civillians, which I will never applaud. Despite the turks attacking civillians and constantly keeping DIyarbarkir, you should never target civillians.

>Is there a completely civilian Kurdish rights movement that unequivocally condemns the terrorist attacks and fights against the current government in the parliament?

Due to the constiution being such, as you much have a huge percentage of the population supporting you in order to even run for parliament and with the large amounts of reported "accidents" at voting polls in majority-Kurdish regions, there's only one Kurdish party.

But there are in fact a lot of independants running, who're clearly associated with different Kurdish parties, who all have different viewpoints. So I would definetly answer yes to that, although being anti-guerilla isn't nessecarily the right path.

>but those operations are necessary to clean the region.
I am talking in general. My uncle's (my uncle owns a factory in Turkey) friend was discriminated against because he wanted to get into a private school (in Istanbul, supossedly the most modernized and liberal state in the country). Before he went to the building, he was told by many of his friends not to speak Kurdish with his children there, but he did it anyways. He spoke with them in the lobby before the teacher(? I think it was a teacher) came in. They completed the test and all, but they still didn't get in. I doubt this had anything to do with anything else, really. If you complete the test, and everybody else came in, you're supossed to too.

The school didn't even come with an explanation, they didn't say "not enough space" or anything like that. Just that some "problems had occured".

I guess it's a lot more complicated than to be summarized in a wiki article. Whatever. But the question remains, is there an organization that condemns all the terrorist attacks whether they're against civilians or soldiers or para military and also has an agenda of Kurdish rights movement? I don't think answer to this is HDP because of things I've read about them being not so unequivocally against armed conflict. But I don't think there is another group in the parliament that cares about Kurdish rights movement.

In short is there an organization that proposes western style multi-culturalism?

>Due to the constiution being such, as you much have a huge percentage of the population supporting you in order to even run for parliament and with the large amounts of reported "accidents" at voting polls in majority-Kurdish regions, there's only one Kurdish party.
I don't believe this. Physical voting attacks are hardly scalable and there has to be some observer from another part during the count-transfer.

>although being anti-guerilla isn't nessecarily the right path.
Why would being anti-guerilla is a problem?

>>but those operations are necessary to clean the region.
I didn't say this. I said recent attacks probably have made it easier for government to impose its own view of things. Hence the global apathy towards curfews.

As for your example, I had met someone who studied with a government grant at a government university and he was a successful civil engineer of Kurdish origin. Individual cases can be sad or good but without solving the underlying legal issues (like as you said speaking Kurdish de facto illegal) it's hard to solve this issue. Which brings back the question that is is there an organization entirely civilian for Kurdish rights movement?

The KDP (Kurdish Democratic Party, very important to search for that, and not Kurdistan's Kommunist Party), but it is (as I said before) not a "real" party due to the huge amount of "accidents" in Kurdish-majority voting polls.

The KDP consists of a lot of the more moderate socialists from the civil war era. It has been marked as a terror organization, but never has it commited a single action (or atleast not one that has been reported). They're 100% secular and anti-war.

Also, I don't count an attack on soldiers as terrorism. This is a fair retaliation, as long as it is targeting the soldiers and para-militaries.

OBS. if you're going to search form they search for Northern KDP/KDP Turkey/PDK BAKUR otherwise PKK will pop up.

>I don't believe this. Physical voting attacks are hardly scalable and there has to be some observer from another part during the count-transfer.
This often seems obscure for my friends. But things like these are a part of everyday life in Turkey. At first glance Turkey looks very modern, very like the rest of the West. But if you study it further, you will quickly realize, it's administration is more like a banana-republic, than a civilized nation.

(washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/02/15/were-there-irregularities-in-turkeys-2015-elections-we-used-our-new-forensic-toolkit-to-check/ there are countless of articles like this.)

My Turkish friend who lives in Diyarbarkir also reported one of the lights at the voting poll suddenly turning off, and all the people who had met up had to go home.

>Also, I don't count an attack on soldiers as terrorism. This is a fair retaliation, as long as it is targeting the soldiers and para-militaries.
What? They didn't allow me to speak Kurdish so I can kill soldiers is a pretty third-world/fundamentalist Middle Eastern way of thinking. If the differences are that extreme (which honestly I have no idea about, I wasn't able to distinguish between Kurdish and Turkish anyway) something like a velvet revolution is the best way.

Sure I'll check KDP, but I was trying to find out a group in Turkey that I could get behind.

Yeah, of course I'm not denying the existence of frauds, I'm just saying it's stupid hard to scale them to affect the results of the election. Like one voting district has virtually no effect on the election results. And if there was fraud I hardly think it would be around 1-5%.

You forgot them murdering the Assyrians and trying to assimilate the Laz people.

>They didn't allow me to speak Kurdish so I can kill soldiers

Maybe you haven't read what I wrote or maybe I haven't been able to communicate in english well enough.

But there were mass-executions. Like, they would take random citizens off the streets, drive them to Diyarbarkir Prison or before that just a cave-like torture-chamber. There they would torture them untill they confessed (often they confessed things they wouldn't have done, in the hope that they would just face a short/medium long prison sentence).
(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyarbakır_Prison)

If you spoke out against it, you would be shot. It wasn't just the assimilation and the "minor" discrimination. This was a slow-paced genocide.

The only reason they allowed for the Kurdish language to be de-jure legal, was because of the EU telling them they couldn't join before they had given the kurds full rights again.

>the christians have oppressed the muslims all over the world for centuries
lmao where?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict_(1978–present)

And remember, if they weren't killed or made homeless, they often couldn't show their true identity. And those Kurdish villages that were left, were constantly forced to pay sort-of protection money to the local sergeant.

>iranian islam
>radical

Iran is Shia, Shias generally aren't the guys blowing themselves up.

Supreme leader a shit but President Rouhani seems like a pretty cool guy. Better than that angry manlet Ahmadinejad.

Really hope we start being friends with them instead of Saudi wahabbi shits. Don't want Republicans to fuck this up.

That's terrible, it's a human rights violation for sure, I'd like to see who is responsible to be punished. But that still does not justify killing soldiers who weren't even born when those things were happening. This just escalates the violence between two parties which is exactly what I'm calling third-world/fundamentalist Middle Eastern way of thinking.

It's like an Indian in US killing US soldiers for crimes the organization they're in committed. It's quite weird.

>The only reason they allowed for the Kurdish language to be de-jure legal, was because of the EU telling them they couldn't join before they had given the kurds full rights again.
This is exactly what should happen, there should be international pressure but I don't think attacks on soldiers or civilians are helping this cause.

Lol, you're right.

Today's guerilla is wrong. But the first attack I can 100% support there was no media attention before this.

What? Internet arguments can end with agreement? Weird. You're either a bot or another person from Denmark.

same here. it sadly isn't likely though, specifically with Israel and all that. I hope we ditch those fat corrupt saudis.