July 2018

>It's totally great.
>Everything is sandboxed, you included.
>Nothing works without Google micro services, and everything depends on the Google app.
>Now there are many forks. Yours is the seventh.
What does it look like?

Other urls found in this thread:

github.com/littlekernel/lk/wiki/Introduction
blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2016/01/01/0/
arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-riddled-with-security-flaws-amateurishly-written/
github.com/seL4/seL4/issues/53
twitter.com/AnonBabble

A sex organ?

looks like chrome os just for my goddamn phone, the last thing i needed

>>Nothing works without Google micro services, and everything depends on the Google app.
my hacked-together attempt at making it work without being able to talk to Google. It includes a crawling horror of a DNS resolver that sometimes doesn't work when I want it to and mostly but not always doesn't work when I don't want it do, with a bunch of semi-hardcoded Google domains hardwired to fail or give fake responses. There's a webserver on localhost that exists to return errors and the occasional 204 No Content to the Google requests that get pointed at it. The driver for the GPS hardware has an option added to it to always make it return the same coordinates whenever its called.

fpbp

What is this OS for? Is it to replace android? I thought android had a solid base with the Linux kernel etc.

>What is this OS for? Is it to replace android? I thought android had a solid base with the Linux kernel etc.

If Android was solid, my Nexus 5 hammer head would be on something newer than 3.4

TBF, that's surely to do with Lineage, rather than Google at this point?

Looks like I'm sticking with my Nexus 5 until mid-2018 to see what this is. Don't want to be buying an Android now if it's going to be replaced entirely.

I'm genuinely curious what Fuchsia is going to be.

The problem with Android is that Google can't control it. Updates are controlled by carriers and Google doesn't have the leverage force the carriers to push out updates immediately. (inb4 'just root your phone' - that's certainly an option but not user friendly, especially to the normies. Google isn't trying to appeal to Sup Forums.)
There's also the fact that OEMs keep fucking with it and implementing weird-ass design languages that clash with Material Design, which leads to a lot of visual inconsistency and confusion.
Not to mention all the bloatware and lag.

Fuchsia aims to fix all of that. Fuchsia is sort of Google's 'do-over.' I don't know how they're going to implement it but essentially it's going to work like Windows Phone in a way; OEMs can manufacture phones, tablets and computers that use Fuchsia, but are not allowed to actually alter Fuchsia in any way, so every Fuchsia device works the way. They're also going to be a lot more tight-assed about bloatware and updates.
There's also a good chance Fuchsia will run on everything, which will allow Google to achieve MacBook/iPhone-like continuity where you use the same apps on your phone and computer.
I think Google is also going to try to kill JavaScript apps with Fuchsia as well.

I'm not looking forward to Fuchsia's unveiling because it's probably going to be chaotic. They're going to try to replace Android but the problem is that virtually no companies have any real reason or incentive to join in on this bandwagon. It's going to be really interesting to see what they're going to do with Android apps as well; will Fuchsia be backwards-compatible or will we just have to start over from scratch?

Why aren't you running CopperheadOS?

Do you expect Android Apps to run on Fuschia?

Nexus 5 =/= Nexus 5X

This one's up in the air. If you're going to make an entirely new OS from scratch, backwards-compatibility sort of defeats the purpose.
On the other hand, there are literally millions of Android apps in the Play Store, so if we just abandon all of them like that, Fuchsia will fall flat on its face.

Get an S8, it's on 4.4.16

> (You)
>Why aren't you running CopperheadOS?

I don't know much about copper head os. I just like TWRP backups and easy updates.

>the problem is that virtually no companies have any real reason or incentive to join in on this bandwagon.

This. No company would get in on Fuchsia if they can't tinker with it. For Fuchsia to be successful, Google would have to manufacture the hardware that comes along with the OS, sort of how Apple have done.

But for some of us, we want Google to drop Fucshia so Samsung can answer it with Tizen.

Actually I think companies are going at some point to jump in ( if it gets concrete ); better design, not having to develop a new design on your own, better overall user experience
But perhaps some companies will prefer continuing to develop their own custom android, like xiaomi with their miui for example

That logo is way too phallic. How do I send a complaint to Google?

>google fuchsia
>google fuchs ia
>google fucks you
yeah, not gonna fall for this

Android N doesn't officially support SD800, all ports are hacks. It's time to upgrade.

It's to replace both android and ChromeOS so it can run on desktop and mobile. It will basically be windows 10 just open source.

Is this going to be the ultimate botnet or what?

idiot, orchid = vagina

since when?

This is what I'm gonna be concerned about. Unfortunately unless you buy Apple's shitty hardware you don't get their actually-okay software. But if you buy the good Android hardware you get google's shitty spying software.

The consumer just cannot. win.

>Apple
>okay software
This is bait?

>yet another kernel fork by jewgle with their branding and walled garden slapped on top
>github.com/littlekernel/lk/wiki/Introduction

Of course not, OS X is great.

I said it was okay, I didn't say it was _good_.
Still have to admit the anti-fragmentation that iOS has compared with Android makes it a stronger operating system (less confused UI design, less chance of "rogue" processes and apps under a closely scrutinised walled garden), but with the App Store instead of Play it's a weaker for the diversity of apps you can use. I know it's a "muh games" thing but I can't go and buy an iPhone, get PPSSPP and play PSP games with my Dualshock 4 controller paired and clamped to the phone without a whole lot of jailbreaking. Android lets you do that easily, with the risk of not every app / mod of the OS being carefully checked for shittiness.

What was ever wrong with Symbian. It just worked with no need to constantly all home. Freakin' easy access to internet has turned software devs evil I swear.

Fork? I thought this was entirely new. Please don't tell me it's just been a linux fork this whole time.

But android is better than iOS in every way, as an OS. They even fixed the java caused lag a few years back. It's only flaws are:
>carriers have a say in updates instead of manufacturers, unless you buy the phone directly from the manufacturer
>phones come locked and unrooted. That's like using Linux without sudo, or using windows without admin privileges.
Neither of these are "android's fault". It's the fucking companies that cuck users and Apple is no different.

SailfishOS and Fuchsia look more promising than android and iOS combined.

>unless you buy the phone directly from the manufacturer
Who the fuck doesn't do this? I thought you murricans worked even this out years ago

No, it's from scratch

It's a fork of a really small, minimal kernel that's not linux.

Then why complain? No-one would worry if they brought back some dead fucking experiment from 20 years ago.

I'm not an American. And I do buy directly from the manufacturer. But most people don't.

They wrote it in about a year, huge parts of it in Go. It's not going to be pretty.

So is Fuchsia going to be a totally new thing? Will it be able to run old Android software?

In Go?
Are you fucking kidding? I thought google only bothered with go for the script kiddie tier interface
designers.
>Maybe we'll make it posix enough that we'll be able to shimmy it in with a compatibility layer underneath android?
>Oh wait, no drivers, never mind. Maybe in 20 years...

That was their goal with go. Hire as many cheap code monkeys as possible and give them the highest chance for any code that they manage to compile to not be shit. So they took an existing operating system and put a thousand code monkeys on it.

It's not Linux based, it's not android based. It will be difficult running android apps on it unless it gets a compatibility layer, but the apps would generally run worse then. Like how shit performance was on pre-Lollipop android.
Afaik sailfish comes with android compatibility despite not being an android OS. But it is still Linux based so I'm not sure if fuchsia has a chance.

Didn't they say they didn't want to replace android and had other goals for it?

They literally said it will replace both android and ChromeOS, and will be the next multiplatform OS to compete against windows 10

>but the apps would generally run worse then. Like how shit performance was on pre-Lollipop android.
How did you come up with this nonsense?

It's built around a microkernel.
Microkernels are the best systems available.
blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2016/01/01/0/
It's going to run laps around leenoks.

yeah actually, they can easily make an ART kernel module for fuchsia to ease the transition, and in the mean time give a really easy toolkit to convert apps to fuchsia native (using something like flutter, which already exists and works with android and iOS)

>not exokernels
Nah.

>falling for the exokernel meme
kek

>kernel module
They don't need kernel modules. They have a pure microkernel architecture.
>art
Is just a glorified java runtime. It could be ported to fuchsia just fine.

What nonsense?

>but the apps would generally run worse then. Like how shit performance was on pre-Lollipop android.

What's nonsensical about that statement? Emulating android apps would definitely have shit performance than a natively installed app.

>Emulating
That's what the core of the nonsense is.
How the hell did you come to believe emulation is needed?

>google switching to their own OS to avoid GPLs with using Linux for Android

Will this throw back Linux (the kernel) to "obscurity"?

>Microkernels are the best systems available.
HAHAHA! Oh wait you are serious? let me laugh even harder.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>doesn't reinforce his present beliefs
>dismisses whole article without reading
Way to go, user!

it's not. Google is not such a great contributor as people tend to think.

Microkernels are OOP of Kernels.
Everyone thinks it's great idea at first but then they realise how shit it is.

>Samsung can answer it with Tizen
>Tizen

Are you fucking kidding?
arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-riddled-with-security-flaws-amateurishly-written/

>Presenting at Kaspersky Lab's Security Analyst Summit and speaking to Motherboard, Neiderman had little positive to say about the state of Tizen's code. "It may be the worst code I've ever seen," Neiderman said. "Everything you can do wrong there, they do it."

>While much of the code is inherited from Tizen's Intel and Samsung predecessor projects, Neiderman says that most of the flaws he found were in the newer code. Buffer overflows are widespread due to issues such as the improper use of the strcpy() function in C—a notoriously dangerous function with risks that are well known to experienced C and C++ programmers. These risks lead many developers to use alternative functions entirely, but not so the Tizen developers: Neiderman says that Samsung is "using it everywhere."

>Samsung's code also failed to use SSL in a consistent way, transferring even sensitive data in the clear.

It won't be run natively, hence it's emulated.

they should have let us do the logo

I mean usage wise. A great part if not the biggest part of devices running Linux in any form are Android phones/tablets.

If that was true, nobody'd be using them.
But the article shows that's not the case.
>It won't be run natively
How is a java program more native in Linux than, say, in Windows?

>If that was true, nobody'd be using them.
Oh yea, nobody uses OOP at all, it's not most popular way to write code.
Are you retarded?

>Runs QNX RTOS microkernel
>Super stable and great battery life
>Has the ability to install Android applications
What went so wrong?

Why do you think microkernels are so popular where they are?

See dalvik vs ART. That's obviously what I meant. Stop baiting (you)s

Because they are abstract like OOP languages.
How many times do I have to say LIKE OOP for you to understand my point?

>See dalvik vs ART. That's obviously what I meant. Stop baiting (you)s
They're both glorified java runtimes.
Why do you think it's not possible to port them or to build a better one on fuchsia?

there's probably as many servers, routers, and other embedded devices running linux as their are phones/tablets

>How many times do I have to say LIKE OOP for you to understand my point?
I don't see the analogy. Analogies only work if the other party agrees to them.

Well it shows that you don't understand how Microkernels work and you should go read about them in more than one source and actually learn how do they work.

>unironically believes millions of lines of buggy code running in supervisor mode is the best we can do
>refuses to read article
>blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2016/01/01/0/
>that argues the opposite point
Way to go, user-kun.

Again, go and learn how Microkernels work, this will open you to more arguments other than what you read from that particular blog.
There is no right or wrong way of doing kernels, there is how ever wrong ways of presenting your argument, and only knowing a biased opinion is one of them

>blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2016/01/01/0/
>Microkernel hatred is a peculiar phenomenon. Sheltered users who have never had any background in much beyond Windows and some flavor of free monolithic Unix, will, despite a general apathy or ignorance in the relevant subjects, have strong opinions on the allegedly dreadful performance and impracticality of “microkernels,” however they define the term (and we shall see that a lot of people have some baffling impressions of what a microkernel is supposed to be).
Holy shit, is that article's intro accurate.

>I argue with you
>You don;t understand me
>I advice you to learn about the subject
>You go full fucking retard

Stop, you are embracing yourself.

>hating this hard on an article he hasn't read
user, you can do better than this.
>Stop, you are embracing yourself.
Much embrancing.

RIP Linux on Android.
Android's kernel will be replaced with that thing in under 2 years.

>Again, go and learn how Microkernels work, this will open you to more arguments other than what you read from that particular blog.
You have no real answer for this.
>unironically believes millions of lines of buggy code running in supervisor mode is the best we can do
Do you, user?

I didn't hate on the article, I hated on your knowledge of the subject, its very biased and not very informed.

user-kun, you seem very knowledgeable in the subject, and I'm honestly curious about this. Why do you
>unironically believes millions of lines of buggy code running in supervisor mode is the best we can do
?

So the Linux development will die before windows 10 dies. Fucking lel.

you do not understand that Monolith is and what Mico kernel is to ask question.

Unfortunately for you even micro is using buggy code running in supervisor mode.

i didnt know Fred Fuchs is developing an OS

Honestly not a bad idea for a language. Java and C# was the same idea, but they didn't really execute as well.

>Unfortunately for you even micro is using buggy code running in supervisor mode.
Great, find me a bug in the current verified version of seL4.
protip: You can't.

github.com/seL4/seL4/issues/53

Just go to their github, bug reports are everywhere. But you miss the point of why sel4 is "bug free"

again showing your lack of knowledge anything computers.

it will if all manufactures will be okay with Google fucking them in the ass.
Why the death of Android will stop Linux development? I think it will just stop Android development. And why do you compare a desktop os like win10 with Android?

>in the verified version
Try again, user-kun.

every bug in github is part of verified version today. Again showing your general lack of understanding of software.

I just want a new desktop OS that is actually good to step up its game. Something to finally remove Windows from it's throne. Also remove POSIX and UNIX/UNIX-likes.

Do you unironically believe it's not easier to keep 5k lines of code bug-free than to keep 1m lines of code bug-free?
Definitely not the code you linked to.
I do not know much about your general understanding of software, but your lack of understanding of seL4's development process runs deep and fundamental.

how do you go from fuchs to fucks ?

>Also remove POSIX and UNIX/UNIX-likes
Why? Unix-like systems are very flexible. They can be anything you want them to be.

Ch frequently makes a k sound. Chrome is a google related example.

>Has the ability to install Android applications
this feature came like right when they decided to abandon the project entirely. If they'd stuck to their guns then they would've had decent marketshare.

Sometimes you just have rest to start over.

Any system that's not trying for a niche does have to at least do POSIX.
Else it's a non-starter.
Minix3, Genode and Fuchsia all do provide some degree of POSIX compatibility.
Even HelenOS, which is trying to specifically reinvent that wheel does have some provision for actually running POSIX software.

This is what I imagined it would look like, engineered for tablets so everything is a hamburger menu and impossible to navigate with.

I also imagine it's just the beginning of the walled garden, after they con everybody into using Fuchsia it will begin to lock itself down and heavily filter everything you do and see "This pdf does not have a DRM signature, you may not read it"