Why do people recommend beginners to stay away from IDEs...

Why do people recommend beginners to stay away from IDEs? Isn't it kinda convenient when you can run your script without leaving your working environment? Saving a file after editing it and running and interpreter separately gets old real fast.

WHAT ARE IDEs

Idk, teaches beginners bad habits maybe. I really like IDLE and I wish I could use it for everything, but I'm stuck with Emacs so what do I know?

Because you don't know why things are happening, the IDE does all the heavy lifting and you're left helpless and useless without your crutch

This. Everything becomes magic.

Use debugger mode to even most obvious errors,is like teach math operations with calculators inside paper and pencil.

>muh errors
do people honestly make errors?

debugging has got to be cia nigger shit. pointless timewasting bullshit.

I don't. They make a lot of things much easier. It's important to learn how to handle things like make scripts on your own, but when you're learning how to program it gets in the way of the actual programming. It's much more convenient for a beginner to have an integrated debug screen so they can actually see and understand the errors they're making too.

>have two windows opened at once, one vim one terminal
>type code in vim
>:w
>switch to another window
>python program.py
wew good thing we have ide's

I heard it makes you better at using the debugger than coding properly. But I just abuse the shit out of prints when debugging so idk what's better anymore

Ok but vim can get in the way of coding since vim is usually hard for beginners

Better use gedit or atom maybe

Ayyy you right
My java class had us working in command prompt before we even heard of any ide

it was more relevant when people were using stuff like C++. IDE's would come bundled with non compliant compilers and use weird code you couldn't use else where.

with modern stuff like Java or Python there really is no point in using CLI to build other than knowing how to do it.

The learning curve my dude, that's what has been keeping me away from vim

oh look a picture that explains everything you need to know. the rest of the process is just dicking around in your OS getting things set up...which has nothing to do with programming.

in vim I just hit one key and it runs the code in another tmux split. if I highlight a function with visual mode it will run that snippet in the split as well. don't really see what IDE can offer me that I can't already do with vim.

there is the other side to this though. i still have no idea how to use a debugger, i just use print statements.

You can use any other text editor, it was just an example. In the end, everything programming is is just writing text, you don't need all those 'features'.
Remember there are retards that use visual studio on a daily basis.

Also vim isn't that hard

What does it have to do with?

The one user that gets it. Stop worrying about tools and what laptop or OS you are on and get down to work Jesus Christ

All the features that IDE's have can be and have been implemented with plugins in minimalist editors like Sublime, Atom, VS Code, Brackets, etc. With plugins you get to CHOOSE what features you want instead of having a complicated feature set forced on you.

its an example. if someone was learning java the argument that they should use CLI instead of eclipse for example is pretty weak. the only thing you would learn by using the CLI is summed up in that picture. -use an editor to make source files -evoke javac to make some bytecode - run java to get the java runtime started.

Not that dude. The thing that bugs me the most is that all major editors (ie vim and emacs) are optimized for US keyboards. Some combos that are easy there are inefficient in other keyboard layouts, so it's either switch to a weird unfamiliar layout where your muscle memory isn't worth shit, or use in inefficiently in another layout.

you can even do this with just the vim window using :!

>minimalist
>atom

>Remember there are retards that use visual studio on a daily basis.

Good luck writing .NET without an IDE

*shrug* I've only ever used pic related(and vim.) Doesn't get in your way, but still gives you a rough idea as to why your shit ain't compiling.

geany doesnt format syntax except for indenting after braces (but not unindenting the closing brace). Not something I would want to use all day for coding.

they're partially elitist cunts and partially right. every beginner should definitely learn how to use cli and all the tools that IDE integrates sooner than later, but it's not like that's an absolute top priority. just make sure you're not hopeless without an IDE after you've gone past being a total beginner

Good to know actually, thanks
I have never made anything .net related so can't talk about that but I did c++ and I must say that downloading 10 gigabytes of stuff is totally not okay.
I can't even imagine what in the actual fuck did they menage to put in there.

I actually used IDLE and liked it but went back to vim because of transparent background.
>t. autism

>which has nothing to do with programming
are you kidding? this is half of what programming is about

you seem to confuse programming with coding

shit posting on the net about trivial bullshit is not programming. if you are talking about developing a real developer isn't going to sweat the small stuff and is going to get work done by whatever means necessary and isnt going to have autistic spasms.

Jetbrains's IDEs are the best out there desu.

Their debugger interface just works

I'm starting C, what should I use? Vi?

Use Zext, faggit.
Nice 666 get.

Y-you too...

Thanks user

Ide do lot of stuff you will never understand if you don't look at it first. If you want to be a good programmer, start without ide or very basic one is maybe better.
If you just need to code time to time, go ide directly

This is why I like modern text editors, once you set them up you can have a clean environment customized for you.

The vim learning curve is a fucking myth.
Contrary to popular belief you are actually allowed to use the mouse and arrow keys, especially if you are doing GUI stuff, or are a beginner.

there is a learning curve for "vi" not for vim.
All you need to now to get started once in vim:
i = edit/insert mode, to exit this mode press esc
:x = exit and save changes
:q! = exit and don't save changes

I prefer not using an IDE. People might not be aware what is happening if they have never left the IDE. At least let people know the superior way before they use an IDE

>developer
>isnt going to have autistic spasms.

Beginners need to just stay away from IDEs. IDEs make bad programmers. They need a text editor, and a terminal to compile. This is very simple to do, if someone just shows them how. And it teaches them to actually think about what they're writing, how to debug, get intimate with the compile process, etc.

Well, you'd be surprised how many comp sci students at my university don't even know what compiling is. They think your code is just run automatically by pressing the "start" button in an IDE.

I don't really get the IDE hate. Maybe it's because people are using shitty languages with shitty IDEs?

Programming C# with Visual Studio and Resharper and Code Contracts is fucking amazing. Resharper points out errors or just code smells, lets you refactor things, find references, constant examines the entire project for errors while you work without you having to recompile to see. The IDE lets you look up reference material, autocomplete method calls and what not as you type. Code contracts give you static analysis to verify that the code works as it should.

You don't get anything like that with a shitty text editor. I can't imagine how anyone could actually do serious professional work with something like Atom.

>brainlet lets the IDE program for him
And this is why software is so shitty nowadays.