Sup Forums loves IBM but hates Apple. How, then, does Sup Forums feel about Swift...

Sup Forums loves IBM but hates Apple. How, then, does Sup Forums feel about Swift, especially as an "enterprise" language that IBM wants it to be?

Other urls found in this thread:

theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/
learnxinyminutes.com/docs/swift/
appventure.me/2015/08/20/swift-pattern-matching-in-detail
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Why would anyone use a language designed specifically around compatibility with Obj-C outside Apple's ecosystem?

Because it isn't controlled by IBM's more direct competitors, Oracle (Java), Google (Go, Dart), and Microsoft (C#).

But why would anyone who's not an IBM employee care about it? Besides, it's basically controlled by Apple, which is even worse.

Sup Forums hates the current IBM.

Sup Forums is nostalgic for the almost excessive hardware engineering excellence from the bygone era of IBM near monopoly.

Software has always been IBM's week spot.

I don't give a shit, it's swift takes over the enterprise world that would be a good thing given how piss easy it is to do thing with swift.

>having feelings towards technology companies

swift is forced meme language btw

It's a nicer language than Java or Go, and arguably even C#. It uses ARC instead of a tracing garbage collection, which some like. Apple doesn't control Swift the way Oracle controls Java because Swift isn't a product Apple sells.

Nice language but Kotlin is better. Too bad it runs on the JVM.

it's awesome it runs in the JVM. I love the cross-platform ability

> Apple doesn't control Swift the way Oracle controls Java because Swift isn't a product Apple sells.
No one sells languages/compilers nowadays, you give the development tools for free and sell the platform instead. In this sense, Swift/iOS is exactly like Java/JVM and C#/.NET.

>specifically around compatibility with Obj-C
but that's simply wrong.

Too bad Oracle doesn't sell JVM neither

Considered simply as a language, Kotlin isn't as good as Swift, which has true pattern matching and algebraic data types. Kotlin also lacks lightweight ("real") structs and TCO because of the JVM, but running on the JVM is more of an advantage thanks to all the libraries.

Well, you can't buy standalone iOS either, it's "platform" in a wider sense. But I'm not sure what exactly Oracle's business model in regards to JVM is, how do they make money from it?

theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/

Apple mostly sells consumer hardware. Oracle mostly sells enterprise stuff. Both are "platforms", the difference is in the kind of platform.
>In this sense, Swift/iOS is exactly like Java/JVM and C#/.NET.
If they weren't different where it matters, IBM would not have invested in Swift. They have their stake in Java already.

Wtf, that sounds shitty... Why would Oracle do this? They are just helping microsoft spreading .net.

Post some highlights of the lang.

learnxinyminutes.com/docs/swift/ has a pretty good overview of the features.
appventure.me/2015/08/20/swift-pattern-matching-in-detail

bump

IBM is a glorified patent troll. It was amusing to watch them whine about trigraph removal from the C++ standard.

>Sup Forums loves IBM but hates Apple
>Sup Forums loves IBM
>not building your own computer entirely from non-proprietary parts, i.e. from parts you soldered yourself out of electrical components you cast yourself out of metal you smelted yourself out of rocks you excavated yourself out of land you own yourself
>being so much of a brainlet you can't even do that

He probably meant Thinkpads.

>building your own computer entirely from non-proprietary parts, i.e. from parts you soldered yourself out of electrical components you cast yourself out of metal you smelted yourself out of rocks you excavated yourself out of land you own yourself
>2017
>manually casting electrical components
>manually soldering them together
enjoy your slow fragile computer

Why in the world wound you whine about that?

>being so much of a lifelet you can't rebuild civilization from scratch

IBM rice was the best rice.

I feel Java overcomplicated, I don't like Java but it's only option for Android Runtime. If Kotlin is more fine for development I will use it.

Their software uses them pretty heavily. Different industrial space.

Wait until Google Fucksya. It's the future m

to be fair that shit does look reasonably tasty

Java isn't complicated, it's made for brainlets. The only thing that's simpler to get the hang of is Go.

Java is absolutely complicated. C, Lisp, Clojure, Python, Ruby, and Haskell are all much easier to get the hang of than Java.
In fact I'd argue you CAN'T get the hang of Java.
Because once you've got as much of a hang of it as the language will ever actually let you get, your software is still bad.
It's because of Java's many needless rules that are only there for the sake of familiarity and don't actually improve performance or code structure.
Rather all it does is enforce bad style.
Do you hear that? Java is so complicated it's literally impossible to use well no matter how well you know it.

>Ruby, and Haskell are all much easier to get the hang of than Java.
Oh, you're just shitposting.

Transistors are propiretary

>In fact I'd argue you CAN'T get the hang of Java.
No need to conflate "bad" or "encourages bad style" with "incomprehensible".

>he didn't actually read the post he's refuting

Realistically, what will replace Java and the JVM?

Oracle is being a patent troll with Java, so IBM has to switch languages or all their software will become in danger of being unusable

Nothing, JVM had become COBOL, C# lack strength, even if android change for fushia, web server Java still will working for long long long time, node.js,Python,ruby are unstable lack libraries,break changes, very hard to enterprise user, C++ won't become webserver language,neither rust or swift still need massive ecosystem.

Fair point. Okay, what will replace Java and the JVM for new, greenfield projects?

There's no point to abandon jvm.
swift has the whole objective-c ecosystem, so it might be ok.
I think it will be language that focuses on distributed and parallel systems like Chapel or something like that.

>There's no point to abandon jvm.
There is, though. Oracle

Who "Swift as main language" here?
Feels good. Waiting for Xcode 9 + Swift 4, 2018 will be the year I completely master it.

You really cannot tell. Could be C#, Elixir if it ever gets a JIT, Go 2.0. Dart, Pony, Swift, Crystal, ReasonML or something that doesn't exist yet. On the JVM itself Kotlin has a good chance to replace Java.

How well does it pay?

If you shit a lot of decent apps, it pays quite a lot.

Is that you speaking from experience?

I agree with most but imo apple has a giant ecosystem.

>Python
>unstable
>lacks libraries

IBM has turned to total shit more than a decade ago, friend.

Ecosystem server, Hadoop,spark,load balance,debugger, monitor,IDE, logging,cloud infrastructure,database today Apple begin focus in iOS ecosystem, swift for server need a lot lot work.

Django or any web framework broken version, change on Python just look 2 vs 3, even Python programmer say Python becomes shit on big project or still maintain Python 2.5.

Almost only Java becomes enterprise friendly.

Kotlin on LLVM

On high tech modern fashion go,erlang,node.js, but in average programmer only Microsoft tried use .Net Core, Java becomes safe bet for long long time, or change iOS developer.

I fucking hate Swift. Converting apps from Swift 2 to Swift 3 was the most abhorrent cancer I've ever experienced. Thanks Apple.

Pajeet, is that you?
>Django or any web framework broken version
Actually read the docs about how Django's version numbers work and use the LTS versions.

I've only used it for iOS. I learned the other way around from most people- my first app was Swift 3 and my second was Obj-C. I couldn't ditch Swift fast enough.
>dogshit slow builds
>unreadable!?! optional!?!.syntax!!?!
>can't directly use C code
>can hardly use C++ code at all
>makes basic shit harder for no reason. Can't have a viewcontroller without implementing initWithCoder, even if it just throws an exception, because fuck you

Obj-C has a few weird syntax and intricacies, but:
>it's simple enough overall if you know C
>it results in a very readable codebase when used well
>it compiles extremely quickly, there is lots of tooling available for it
>Apple doesn't completely rewrite it every few weeks
>you can drop C and C++ in there seamlessly

To anyone considering learning iOS dev: Don't use Swift, don't use storyboards, don't even use XIBs. Use Obj-C and write your API programmatically. It's pleasant if you follow those rules.

>Using C code is harder than C++ code
Que?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. To clarify:
>Swift can call C, but it's a pain in the arse. You have to set up a bridging header and use special types to redeclare every function and structure you want to use. With Obj-C, you can just call it directly.
>Swift cannot call C++ at all. You have to write an extern "C" wrapper for the C++ API you want to use, then use the above hacks to call /that/. Meanwhile back in the land of sanity, you can just change the file type to "Objective-C++" and use C++ code directly.

>can't directly use C code
You can. Create foo.h, include the headers you need there, compiler with -import-objc-header foo.h, link with the appropriate libraries.

>don't use storyboards, don't even use XIBs
Yeah, I do that, but with Swift.

It's true it's still very slow to compile, but it's syntax is years ahead of Objective-C user, I don't know what you're on.

IBuMp

It's not designed specifically around that, you mostly see that in the UI libraries.