You must have 15 years of experience and be under 30 years old

>you must have 15 years of experience and be under 30 years old

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>You must have 5 years experience using a 3 year old language.

Job requirements are basically the company's ideal candidate.
99% won't meet everything they want.
Just apply anyways

I got hired at a place that wanted 6 years experience when I only had 2.

>Master's Degree in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, or similar
>15 years experience
>10+ years of experience with COBOL
>Compensation: $22-25/hr

One word: Pajeet

>Need to have a CS or other STEM/business degree

I fucking hate the private sector.

>you must not be an autistic Sup Forums shitposting retard

>doesnt have a real degree

No I have a CS degree. I'm tired of having to deal with faggots who know nothing about actual programming but got the job because they know calculus.

I blame HR for this, it doesn't mean you actually need to have a CS degree. Usually they are fine with equivalent education.
Here in Ireland people do just fine (well, more than fine if you consider a 500 euro a day paycheck enough) with just a higher certificate, technologist degree and all. We're in a field created by mostly college dropouts and many professionals who don't have any degree whatsoever working as software enginners.

Just know your shit, thats all they're asking.

>Just know your shit, thats all they're asking.
And don't sperg out during the interview.

I was interviewed by 3 developers, two seniors and a mid, and everything went smoothly.
Did the whiteboard no problem, chatted a bit, pleasant time really.

Then the manager walks in. Apologizes for being late, sits down, and starts asking horseshit HR questions.
I had a sperg out moment. Pretty sure my chances were tanked from there.

>HR

HR whores put engineers in a pedestal, and are a fucking waste of time.

I try to avoid interviews with HR at all costs if I can, I prefer to be filtered by someone who knows their shit.

I mean, before I went to all interviews, now that I have a job (where I was directly interviewed by the CTO twice) I can look for another job avoiding the HR bitches always that I can, if the interview isn't directly with the company I don't fucking go, that simple.

>I had a sperg out moment. Pretty sure my chances were tanked from there.
I'm going to need details, user.

I sperged once with a manager. I read an forbes article a few days before said interview criticizing some HR questions

>Why should we hire you?
>Why would you set up an interview if you don't even know why you want to hire me? To waste my time?

I was smooth and polite, I told him that with a smile on my face and a goofey tone, but I guess we're both scared of each other, he did end up offering me the job but I got a raise at my current job.

>10 years in Android and iOS deployment.
you fucking wot?

She asked if I had "agile experience."
I told her we do scrum at my current job.
She came back with "I was more interested in your experience with agile than scrum."

So I started talking about the Agile Manifesto and its tenants and how scrum was developed to have a system in place that followed all of the agile tenants.
Then I kinda started to ramble about how "agile" is just the hot new buzzword for managers and most developers couldn't care less.

>Job title requires obscure degrees not even related to it

I remember a small company wanting an app made for mobile devices their clients and workforce could use to connect, track jobs and completion dates etc. and I sent in an offer to do the app for $500 and they sent back requesting my education/past work so I went in to speak to them in person, they wanted me to have a business management bachelors and some other shit... I just left, never spoke to them again. They even sent a follow up email asking if I am still interested... wtf? I am OFFERING to do a job for them, not requesting a fucking payroll job from them. spastic fucks

>developer job doesn't require CS degree

Anyone else notice this trend?

yeah, thanks to fucking bootcamps

Its because a CS degree isnt worth the paper its written on.

9 time out of 10 a bootcamp student is better unless the CS degree is from like Stanford or Cal Tech.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

That's like asking for Electronical Engineers to repair TVs, or a Chemical Engineer to make food recipes.

All of the postings around here are "bachelor's degree or equivalent experience."
Finance companies seem to be sticklers for the degree (but the pay the highest in this area).
Logistics companies are a little more lenient, but degree gives you a sizable advantage.
Government contractors don't give a shit, they'll hire you.

This one isn't even a joke, I seriously applied for a job that required you to be a "pre-junior" in college with two years professional software development experience.

I thought they were bluffing, but they sent me a rejection letter because I didn't have two years.

Why didn't you bullshit? If you're confident you can be productive, they won't suspect

I see this a lot:
>Computer Science or similar degree such as Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, etc.
What the fuck?

I did research and had a doctor mentor me in contributing to systems level open source software during my CS degree. And it is a school I guarantee you have not heard of. And no boot camp is going to teach you systems or calculus.

Just say you have "some college." There is not really any way they can verify that. Most background checks only check for degrees. Not even sure if attendance/admittance is something that they have access to.

I did not have a professional ex-employer who would lie for me

CS teaches you all sorts of irrelevant crap that you will never use outside of an academic setting. I can see why a lot of companies would choose bootcamp grads or engineers over CS graduates.

If computer systems and calculus are what you consider irrelevant crap, I really hope you're trolling dude

>Years of experience
>No degree
>Sooo, where did you get your degree in, we didn;t see it on your resume
>I don't have a degree
>oh, ok
>Yea, I've been in the field for years and have worked on hundreds of projects throughout the years
>These are the technologies and systems I work with and manage
>Ok, can we start you off at 92k + bonuses?

Why the fuck is this the only field where this happens? We really need some kind of system like the Bar that prevents non-credentialed software engineers from becoming employed as programmers.

I'm certified out the ass.........

Just no degree

>interview goes great
>getting ready to wrap everything up and head home
>"Just one more thing before we're done user, we need to do a quick penis inspection"
>no call back
I'm so fucking sick of this shit.

When you enroll a bachelor degree, it is implied that you're interested in an academic career, not exactly to settle down on a middle job, especially on our field.
Personally, I think it's a very toxic trend american job market created, bachelor degree for everything. Plenty of countries already have more job market focused degrees that teaches the craft and trim down a little bit of the theory crap that is not useful unless you're a researcher or something. Those degrees give a generalist approach on the first two years and then closes the scope and specializes the student on a certain stuff.

In the year 2030, this will be the standard process for determing whether or not you can ask a girl on a date.

>anyone applying for a programming job should need a CS degree
yes, good goy!

The whole fucking discipline need massive reform. And they're needs to be regulation on what can be called an engineer.

theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/programmers-should-not-call-themselves-engineers/414271/

What do you think about network engineers and security engineers?

I have an associates degree and "network engineering" and I can confirm it's a bullshit field. None of those retards have any idea how anything works.

I don't know if about "security engineers" to make a comment, but if I had to take a shot in the dark they can go in the toilet too.

I really derped the fuck out on the post sorry

Can you kind of fill me in on why you think network engineers are a joke?

There might be some who aren't good but what makes the job a meme?

You do you know what a real network engineer does and the kind of solutions that they design and implement?

You sound like a MIT nigger. I'm a hacker, but I call myself a "security specialist" or "security engineer" when applying for a job. It sounds a hell of a lot better than "hacker." Programmers call themselves software engineers for the same reason.

But no sane programmer call himself an engineer.
I thought we were just fine with developer.

I work on HR
i am basically your god lmao

>I'm a hacker

You are a lamer you mean.

A coworker uses in his signature "Web engineer", it is so sad how everyone uses the word so loosely.

If you don't have an engineering degree you are not an engineer, period.

>Can you kind of fill me in on why you think network engineers are a joke?
Here is something a world famous network engineer with a PhD said on the first day of my class with him
>The people who are best with computer are not "computer scientist" but psychologist and other not tech people, because they have the open mind
This guys is world renowned. And African.

Security Specialist is a fine title. Software Developer is a fine title. There is no engineering standards organization that keeps software engineers in check. Most "software engineers" will never look at an IEEE or ISO standard in their fucking life before you bring that up. They aren't held to any standard at all.

The worse the programmer, the more likely they are to call themselves an engineer.

The education system is pretty shitty at teaching programming. Having a degree to begin with doesn't guarantee someone is a good programmer.

I've actually heard stories of COLLEGES introducing students with tools like Scratch and Alice... kid languages that shouldn't even be taught to high schoolers, let alone college students.

>I've actually heard stories of COLLEGES introducing students with tools like Scratch and Alice
My College started off with C++

The only kids language I've heard of a college teaching is Java.

Some employers count hobby projects you create in your own home as "experience", but it depends on the employer.

Developer != Engineer
Programmer != Engineer

...a software engineer does not do what a developer does.

>calls someone a lamer using reddit spacing

I don't really write software nor do the people around me, so I can't speak for devs. But the cyber security industry has rigid standards (for a good reason).

>>Sup Forums62274748

Not all colleges are THAT shitty, but most are shitty nevertheless. The ones that do teach the appropriate languages usually tech outdated methods.

apply anyway dude

don't let that stop you, you have plenty of time to look like a fool at the interview

Lucky for me, my intention is to start my own company and be my own boss, so I don't have to deal with this shit.

>falling for the tech meme
>not falling for the trades meme

shiggydiggy

Even at my community college they didn't start until with alice. Haven't used alice since my freshmen year of high school.

In high school, we had a year-long programming course. They taught us C++ there. In my freshmen year of college, we were taught Alice for a few weeks then Visual fucking Basic. Luckily, I started programming for fun when I was 13.

>muh reddit bugiieeman :(((

Is it really that hard to break into the field? I always see this board whining about the application process, but then the newspaper makes it sound like there isn't even enough people on Earth to fill all the software dev/eng positions.
What did they ask you during the technical portion?

we have more then enough people to fill all those positions,
what we lack is cheap foreign slave labor.

The problem is that the private sector wants bullshit webdevs while academia is pushing out engineers who are only really trained to handle desktop software, ancient shit like LAMP stacks, or highly esoteric/abstract stuff that no small or even medium size business actually bothers developing for themselves.

>the newspaper makes it sound like there isn't even enough people on Earth to fill all the software dev/eng positions.

Business whines about this because they want to flood the market and have lower wages for their workers.

You would too if you had to pay 60k/year for a moron web developer who didn't even go to college.

I have had multiple internships during highschool that were private sector, did multiple extracirriculars related directly to the field, and still had no response without a degree

> entry level C developer
> 5 years SQL, Javascript, Node.Js, Angular.js, Java, Android, Swift experience required
> Masters degree required
> C knowledge optional

My college started me off with Java and C++ in my first semester.

>had to pay 60k/year for a moron web developer
>had to
just hire someone else.

That's the thing. There is no one else. Everyone wants that. Only the indians on Upwork will do it for less and they are not reliable when you need to meet a deadline.

>Luckily, I started programming for fun when I was 13.
Same, except I was 12. There hasn't been a single keyword the education system taught me that I didn't already learn myself.

Yes user prostitution is a demanding profession

Do it yourself like Mark Zuckberg did, then. You'll be a billionaire and it you be your own merit.
Web development is chill and fun as fuck. And I guarantee you'll cum in delight when you look at your own, well polished and beautiful web platform.

>moron web developer who didn't even go to college
>Implying college makes someone a good developer and doesn't just tech basic and outdated shit

Those unrealistic requirements are there so they can say to daddy government "welp, we tried, let us hire Pajeet for slave wages now"

Oh no, you have to pay someone a decent wage, because the job requires skill.

Age requirement? What backwards country are you living in? Link to job description?

That's part of what you're paying for. Reliability. There is more to consider with hiring someone than just "can they do the job".

Well then, accept your fate. If you want a good job, you need to pay what the market demands.

Harvard starts with Scratch and then moves to C in the first few months

>I was more interested in your experience with agile than scrum.
???

Employment is much, much harder than starting your own business. You'll make more money and probably spend half the time, getting clients is hard but trying to play games with autistic losers going over every line of the psuedocode you wrote on the whiteboard test and expecting it to compile is just super autistic quantum bullshit.

starting your own business is easy, following all the tax and business rules and making a profit is not. unless you would kindly enlighten me, or us... please.

Job requirements are set up that way because they likely have an internal candidate lined up, but have an obligation to post the position publicly. Get to know somebody.

>not getting 250k your first year out of college

iPhone: 2007
Android: 2008

That's just on the edge of "reasonable" here. They're pretty much looking for someone who went all-in when the first iPhone was released

Cal Tech class of '04 here, it's pretty shit there too with some exceptions, maybe 4-5 solid professors you are unlikely to have a course with as undergraduates. Almost certainly worse today with the peak-social-justice shit swirl in California generally.

Bootcamps are shit though, you're wasting heaps of money to do what anyone with a 120+ IQ can do on their own for free. In my opinion internet + open source + github basically obviates post-secondary CS education except for graduate level research.

You're on Sup Forums so you should be able to get into some kind of software development. Profit margin on it is just so high since on your second sale and after you have no development cost. I can't begin to tell you all the horror stories of companies dropping well over $300K on a shitty generic CRM and $5K a month for shit tier support that they hated every step of the way. If you can find your way in for $50K a sale, you're saving them 80% and making all that yourself. Then free $1K a month for life with small maintenance. If you can do this three times you can retire.

This.

Tesla is requiring 8 years of .NET Core experience for a senior level position.

Existing .NET code will compile for .NET Core

Well I have an LLC of my own but have never been able to make any big sales. I would even use similar pricing as companies I've worked at before and instead the response was just a scoff. I have made sales, but nothing worth a damn. In the end I just gave up and went back to being a salaried slave.

>Why we should hire you?
Everytime

i feel like most people who are half-decent at programming at least played with programming in some form or another at this age

I fucked around with Assembly a lot at that age because I actually didn't understand that other programming languages existed

Those are H1B-level dev jobs. The people they bring in *barely* have what qualifies as a US high school education.

>The people who are best with computer are not "computer scientist" but psychologist and other not tech people, because they have the open mind
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. One's proficiency with computers is directly linked to their experience and education related to said computers.

>Most "software engineers" will never look at an IEEE or ISO standard in their fucking life before you bring that up. They aren't held to any standard at all.
Open source developers actually follow standards, but then they also don't call themselves engineers.

The IT field is shit, what other jobs '''require''' you to do hobby projects to show off your competence, other than perhaps art

300k math degree etc

It's impossible for most people to make this happen by cutting their normal source of income because you need to have a lot saved. Do it on the weekends or try to make the sale happen in ways where you can do the work not during business hours for example making a website. The sad part is that almost all of the interest I've gotten so far is not when I try to sell myself as a programmer but when I sell the product and pretend it's tailored towards some industry. Businesses are just this retarded. It's also fun to deal with the quantum bullshit when they ask questions like "What do you mean you can just make your own CRM as one person" because they are ignorant to frameworks existing because they have been taken for a ride this hard by whatever scummy shit generic CRM company they currently have. If they're willing to look at my portfolio and the prices I charged for each then it usually helps but they're so fucked sometimes that they both won't believe you could make it for 1/10th of the price yet pine to be in this abusive relationship of wanting to pay out the ass again for nothing.

Most real engineering jobs will prefer that you have some sort of extracurricular experience.