Why Vikings left Finland alone?

Because they thought Finns were wizards.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oeselians
gotland.3000.BC.kvenland.org
sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Härjningen_av_Sigtuna_1187
allempires.com/article/index.php?q=Viking_Age_Finland
nordicestonia.com/tag/oeselians/
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Europe_814.svg
nordicestonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/kkkkk.jpg
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

because mongols are stronger than vikings

The mounted archers of the finngolian horde was too hard to defeat on the finnish plains. Better to just sail south, besides, the vikings had dat celt fever.

Also true.

hadn't been discovered yet

Actually binland was very well known through Sagas as the birthplace of the founder of Norway, Nor.

They must have been pretty stupid if they hadn't discovered that massive landmass in the east and instead decided to sail to west towards unknown and hostile lands.

They knew sweden was to the east so they kinda lost interest there

Nah, I'm gonna go with the Wizard-theory.

Truth

The "mythological" kings of Finland and kingdom of Kvenland

Free translation of the article publish in Kaltio 4/01 in Finnish Kaltio - Nuoren pohjolan kulttuurikuvastin (Olivatko viikinkikuninkaat suomalaisia? - Arto Pöllänen)

History is always written by the winners, not by the losers.

After the fall of Western Rome, the history of Europe has been concentrating around the Germanic peoples – as to oppose the Eastern Rome a.k.a Byzantine Empire.

During the last millennium here in the North, the history has been dominated by Vikings. The orthodoxian descendant of the Byzantine Empire – Russia, grew slowly to become an opposing power to them. Between these two powers was Finland, which was divided in two even before it had reached a level of being a nation state – or this is what we are used to think like.
But is this the truth? Confusing things are to be found from the historical writings of the winners, Germanics and Scandinavians, and considering the archeological findings.

Before the Viking Era, in the 400-700s, Finland was considerably strong and independent, for example what can be seen from the weapons and jewelry. In addition, Finland seems to have had quite direct and stable connections to the Baltic countries and Central Europe, and of course to the related tribes in the east. However, too little attention is paid to the fact why the Vikings didn’t occupy Finland even though they influenced and terrorized in almost all of Europe and controlled the Russian river routes. It is generally thought that the population of Finland was so small and the landscape difficult for travelling across that there was no bigger cities with richnesses, which made Finland less appealing target. But is this the truth? What if there was too large organized defence when compared to the amount of possible loot so it just was not worth it.

How Finland really was before it was taken under Swedish (translator's note: meaning Sweden as a nation state) power? According to the sagas and other Germanic literature, including Widsith from the 600s and Saxo Grammaticus from 1190, Finland was not an unorganized barbarian land but a realm of about the same quality as Scandinavian realms with their kings.

In the Orkeyinga and Hversu Noregr bygdistí (How Norway was inhabited) sagas in Flateyjarbókí from the 1100s it is presented that Suomi (Finland) and Kainuu (Kvenland) were a kind of basic kingdom of the whole North, from which the kingdoms of both Norway and Denmark were established, and additionally many kings and especially queens were delivered to reign in Sweden.

Finns had nothing of value to plunder.
No poorly defended monasteries filled with gold.
No reason to rob them.

The family tree of the king of Finland and Kvenland, Fornjotr (Old Jotun), is presented in its most full form in Orkneyinga saga chapter Fundinn Noreg (Finding Norway), published in Finnish in the book ‘Kvenland’ by Kyösti Julku and ‘Phases of Finland, Livland and Kurland’ by Johannes Messenius. Most of the names can be found also in Hversu Noregr bygdisti and some of the names in Historia Norwegiae from the end of 1100s. Some researchers explain these family trees to be mythical only.

However…

The Germanic literature, Widsith

The Germanic literature is mentioning Finns starting from the 600s. The oldest source, Widsith from the 600s, lists out tens of Migration period kings from the 400-500s. It mentions: Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum” * ”Caesar (translators note: emperor, not J.C) reigned Greeks and Caelic the Finns”. The well-known academic Kustaa Vilkuna thought that Caelic was gothic version from word 'Kaleva' (Gothic ending –ik).

Kalevanpoika/Kalevipoeg/Kalev’s son is an over 2000 years old tradition in the Finnish and Estonian regions. It was pointed out as early as in the 1941 by Hannes Pukki that the word ‘kalev’-‘kaleva’ meant already in proto-Finnic (1000-0 B.C.) - and still means in Estonian language, a purple fabric (translator’s note: e.g. royal mantel). This etymology has been accepted also in the later 1900s. In other words, kalevanpoika/kalevipoeg/Kalev’s son=son wearing purple fabric/mantel.

There is a juxtaposition: the sons of the Byzantine emperor were called ‘porfyrogennetos’, Purple-born. This would mean that Kalev’s sons were either a royal or an aristocratic family in Finland and Estonia living in these countries already in 1000-0 B.C.

The Finnish word for 'king', ’kuningas’ is either a Germanic word or a borrow done by the Germanic speakers from another language. This word has been borrowed to Finnish during the Bronze Age (1500-500 B.C.) or early Iron Age. But why to borrow a word that is not needed? This also refers to that there has been kings – Kalev’s sons – in Finland before the chronology and after.

Anglosaxon Beowulf

Danish researcher Gudmund Schütte thinks that the Finnish Egther Fynnens mentioned by Saxo Grammaticus is the same person as Ecgthow, the father of the hero in Beowulf. Surprisingly, the name is also to be found in the Finnish rune “The Condemnation of Väinämöinen”, in which a boy born and later to be a king is called Ehtaro or Ehtoopoika (translator’s note: Ehtoo-son,). If Päivä (=day) was a person’s name in the past, so could be Ehtoo (=evening). In other words, Ehtoo-Ehtaro from the Kalevala rune, and who was to be made king, would had been the Finnish Egther Fynnensis known by Saxo Grammaticus and Ecgtheow from Beowulf. Ecgtheow is meantioned to be from ‘waegmundingas’ family. Could this be a Scandinavian counterpart to Väinö/Väinämöinen, as Waegmund is spelled as Wäimund? Väinöläinen is a family name known in South-Western Finland still in the 1400s.

Sagas know the Finnish kings

The most rich information about the Finns are in the Islandic sagas (Orkneyinga, Historia Neorwegiae, Hversu Noregr bygdist, Egilin, Ynglinga, Kettil Haengrin and Bardr sagas) from the 1100-1300s. The sagas tell not only about the heroic actions of Scandinavians and Germanics but also about the Finns and the Finnish kings. When counting all the sources, there is something between 20 and 30 kings of Finland and Kvenland mentioned.

Orkneyinga and Hversu Noregr bygdist sagas even mention some of the Scandinavian gods deriving from the family tree of the Finnish kings. For instance, Hler, Loge and Kare, sons of one of the kings called Fornjotr. Hler went to Denmark and occupied the island of Hlersey/Laesö establishing a family of kings there. The sagas equate Hler and Aegir, the Scandinavian sea god (Finnish Ahti). Loge, on the other hand, established a family of kings in North Norway, from which Halogaland (high lights, Aurora borealis) is derived. Loge is also equated with fire or fire god (Finnish Liekkiö).

So why did they blunder equally poor farmers in the British Isles?

According to Orkneyga and Hversu Noregr bygdist sagas, also kings of Sweden derived from Finland (for example, Östen Gylf) and the kings to establish the Norwegian and Danish royalties. Additionally, some of the sagas mention Nor, a prince of Kvenland, who occupied Norway and became the first king and forefather for example to Harald Fairhair. Orkeneyinga saga even claims that the name of Norway derives from the name of prince Nor. Gor, the son of the king of Finland called Torro established a dynasty in Denmark, and his grandson Östen Gylf became the king in Sweden. A descendant to Gor was also jarl Rognvald of Norway , whose son Gange Rolf occupied Normandy and from whom the Viking Era dukes of Normandy, jarls of Rouen and Orkney Islands and even William I the Conquieror descent. Some of kings are also mentioned in Finnish runes, and also in the place names - for example Torro. Another one, Thengill, was the king of Finmark – or perhaps more accurately Kvenland, whose hinterland was Ruija/Finmark (Rutja in Kalevala?) The river Tengeliö runs in the center area of Kvenland.

In the Carta Marina by Olaus Magnus from the 1500s, there is a note on Western Finland: Finlandia-Vel-Finningia Olim Regnum, meaning ‘the ancient kingdom of Finningia. The researchers have found tombs and ancient population centers from the coast of Bothnian Bay. Kvenland is showing signs of being reality from 1000-2000 years ago in the regions it was supposed to have been.

Johannes Messenius mentions in the 1600s that the Finnish kings had laws and abilities to read and write, the same way as Scandinavian runes were used. Kalevala, the national epic of Finland, tells that Väinämöinen – during a looting trip, wrote a book/letter on a stone with his “fire blade”.

Finland-Kvenland falls down in 400 years

Starting from the 800s, Finland was between a hard place and a rock – the other side there was the Vikings, the other side there was Russians.

Howeve, Finland and Kvenland must have been existed in some form in the 1100s. Al Idrisi, who influenced in Sicily, wrote in his world atlas in 1154 for Ruija/Finmark: “The king of Finland has regions and farming land on this forementioned Norwegian region”. In other words, there still was a king in Finland and it was known even so far away as in Sicily in addition to that of knowing that he had regions in Norway.

When Finland was attached to Sweden in 1249-50 (not yet in 1155!), not much about these parts of history is heard about anymore. Even though the most famous skald of the Viking Age, Tjodolf of Hvinir was singing about Fornjotr and his sons to Harald Fairhair, the later and best known sagamaker Snorri Sturluson did not mention Fornjotr anymore in his sagas in the 1220s. Snorri used Ynglintal as a source for his own Ynglingsaga but mentions Fornjotr only when referring to a text from Tjodolv of Hvinir. Snorri is not calling the leaders of Finland and Kvenland kings either anymore, even though mentioning many of them by their name. Perhaps there was political reasons? However, even Snorri mentions Swedish kings getting a wife from Finland – they probably wouldn’t go to get only peasant girls. Fundinn Noregr, Hversu Noregr bygdist and Historia Norwegiae are older sagas than Snorris sagas and include same information as Ynglintal from the early 900s.

As Widsith from the 600s, Saxo Grammaticus in the 1190s and even Al Idrisi of Sicily in 1154 mention about the kings of Finland, perhaps there is no reason to throw this part of history to the “mythology basket” even though considering that due to the information being transferred as oral tradition it has gotten some mythological points of view to it. If it was only mythology, why would the Vikings had told about them in their sagas? And why would they place the origin of the Northern royalties exactly in Finland and Kvenland?

we

nope wrong

>Spanish March

That's the name some historians give to it nowadays, not the real name of the place in those times.

Shitty map.

...

Not an argument

WE

There were norse settlements in both in Finland and Estonia

The castle of Kainuu (Kvenland, Queenland) today.

There's no line of tourists like in Stockholm or Copenhagen. Indo-European/Northern Germanics really did a good job of destroying the Finnish heritage.

proofs

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oeselians
That's Estonia.
But for Finland all you have to do is go to school.

>I have no argument
Cool. Also thread is about Finland, not Estonia.

Schools where they tell you that Finnish history starts when the Swedish Christian crusaders invaded the country?

Oeselians were Finnic you fucking retard, Norse weren't the only ones that knew seafaring.

>• "The hunter-gatherers show the greatest similarity to the modern-day Finns", says Pontus Skoglund, an evolutionary geneticist at Uppsala University in Sweden, about ancient skeletal remains excavated in Gotland: gotland.3000.BC.kvenland.org

A Swedish wikipedia article on the destruction of your capital by Esths and Karelians:

sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Härjningen_av_Sigtuna_1187

Both Coastal Österbotten and pretty much all of southern coastal Finland had norse settlements.
Learn your own history and give back righteous Swedish clay you mongol.
Oeselians were norse and spoke norse.

Finns didn't live near the coast you two retards.
Finnic people lived inland around Karelia.

The islands of Estonia and western/south finland were mostly norse, and remained Swedish minority until WW2.

Because they had nothing of value to raid or trade for.

>Oeselians were norse and spoke norse.
You're fucking clueless
>The Oeselians, Osilians, Esths, or Ests were a historical subdivision of Estonians
>historical subdivision of Estonians

>Finns didn't live near the coast you two retards.
>Finnic people lived inland around Karelia.
Again, clueless
allempires.com/article/index.php?q=Viking_Age_Finland


>The islands of Estonia and western/south finland were mostly norse, and remained Swedish minority until WW2.
kek'd hard, svecoman tier horseshit
1.5% of our lineages can be traced to Germanics, the rest have been here for over 40,000 years

Your pic even proves what I said you fucking retard. And I obviously didn't mean literally that no fucking mongols lived near the coast.

"Oeselians were known in the Old Norse Icelandic Sagas and in Heimskringla as Víkingar frá Esthland"
Oeselia were speaking swedish all the way to WW2 were thousand fled to sweden, leaving entire towns abandoned.

>"Oeselians were known in the Old Norse Icelandic Sagas and in Heimskringla as Víkingar frá Esthland"
That was a generic Norse term for seafarers.
>Oeselia were speaking swedish all the way to WW2 were thousand fled to sweden, leaving entire towns abandoned.
Give me 1 (ONE) source stating that Oeselians were Norse. Go on.
>Your pic even proves what I said you fucking retard.
No it doesn't, the I1 at most makes up 50% in some parts of Finland and it comes from indigenous huntergatherers that were assimilated by Finns, excluding the 1.5% of Swedish lineages.

>Oeselia were speaking swedish all the way to WW2
Use your fucking brain you moron, that's due to Swedish Empire and not Vikings. Same for the Swedish-speaking minorities on Western Finnish coastline.

>Oeselians were norse and spoke norse
source: my ass

No, pretty much all of the western and southern coast settlements were renamed by the Swedish and the Roman Catholic Church when you invaded.

Well if you're already fucking there why not?

>stating that Oeselians were Norse
"All" sources about them are from norse stuff and speak of them as "like us".

Dude nobody here will read your story about historic revisionism

The Oeselians were known in the Old Norse Icelandic Sagas and in Heimskringla as Víkingr frá Esthland (English: vikings from Estonia).
The Livonian Chronicle describes the Oeselians as using two kinds of ships, the piratica and the liburna. The former was a warship, the latter mainly a merchant ship. A piratica could carry approximately 30 men and had a high prow shaped like a dragon or a snakehead as well as a quadrangular sail.

Norse ships.

Saxo Grammaticus describes the Estonians and Curonians as participating in the Battle of Bråvalla on the side of the Swedes against the Danes, who were aided by the Livonians and the Wends of Pomerania.
Fighting with the Swedes
Bros?

iking-age treasures from Estonia mostly contain silver coins and bars. Compared to its close neighbors, Saaremaa has the richest finds of Viking treasures after Gotland in Sweden. This strongly suggests that Estonia was an important transit country during the Viking era.

nordicestonia.com/tag/oeselians/

>speak of them as "like us"
That's because they were seafarers, not because they spoke Norse. Again, give me one reliable source claiming they spoke Norse.

I'm gonna stick with the wizards tho.

None of that states they were Norse. Just that they traded with people like the Norse.

"Probably around 1000, Gunnar Hámundarson from Iceland took part in a Viking raid at Eysýsla (Saaremaa). There he obtained his famous atgeir, by taking it from a man named Hallgrímur. Njáls saga tells the following:

Thence they held on south to Denmark and thence east to Smálönd and had victory wherever they went. They did not come back in autumn. The next summer they held on to Rafala (Tallinn) and fell in there with sea-rovers, and fought at once, and won the fight. After that they steered east to Eysýsla (Saaremaa) and lay there somewhile under a ness. There they saw a man coming down from the ness above them; Gunnar went on shore to meet the man, and they had a talk. Gunnar asked him his name, and he said it was Tófi. Gunnar asked again what he wanted.

"Thee I want to see," says the man. "Two warships lie on the other side under the ness, and I will tell thee who command them: two brothers are the captains — one's name is Hallgrímur, and the other's Kolskeggur. I know them to be mighty men of war; and I know too that they have such good weapons that the like are not to be had. Hallgrímur has an atgeir which he had made by seething-spells; and this is what the spells say, that no weapon shall give him his death-blow save that atgeir. That thing follows it too that it is known at once when a man is to be slain with that atgeir, for something sings in it so loudly that it may be heard a long way off — such a strong nature has that atgeir in it."

Here it descibes a man from fucking ICELAND having a conversation with a random guy in Saaremaa/Ösel/Oeselia

they were afraid of us

because the Finnish braised dengri :DDD

The west had gold, and wealth, and more women to steal.
Finland was sparsely populated, and poor.

>Here it descibes a man from fucking ICELAND having a conversation with a random guy in Saaremaa/Ösel/Oeselia
Could've been in any language or with an interpreter. Besides, seafarers and traders knew multiple languages. Again, give me a reliable source stating that Oeselians were Norse.

It specifically say one guy went to shore to talk to guy with a NORSE NAME that describe to guys whom also have NORSE NAMES.

And there are no better sources than that.
Cause of the mere fact that these people didn't write things down, except once every decade on a stone.

>It specifically say one guy went to shore to talk to guy with a NORSE NAME that describe to guys whom also have NORSE NAMES.
All names in sagas were Norseified. Again, give me a source stating they were Norse and not Finnic.

There's no source for any language about Oeselians.
By your logic they didn't have a language at all.

But fear not!
The swedes and romans describ their friendly Neighbors as Curonians. And we know they DIDN'T speak Finnic.

Curonians were Balts and Oeselians were Finnic.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Europe_814.svg

Oeselians were Finnic?
Now you're the one makig claims.
Care to prove that?

Cause the very name Oeselia is from norse meaning East.

Just as how Finn being a Germanic word doesn't make Finns Germanic, Oeselian being a Germanic word doesn't make them Germanic.

That map is highly inaccurate and you know it.
Same reason I haven't used pic related, which clearly show entire oeselia as norse.

nordicestonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/kkkkk.jpg

...

Same pic.

Just because some Norse may have settled there doesn't make Oeselians Norse, same as how Goths who lived in the vicinity of Finnic Kvens doesn't make them Finnic.

bjorn and thor wuz bearbarians n shiet whilst we finz wuz wizards nd ruled a space empire nd shiet

That map is still highly inaccurate.
It shows westen Lithuania as finnic, which it has never been.
And it shows the island of Hiiumaa which was never settled by Finns either.

And you claim the island between, is finnic?

>eleventh century
>england
DELET THIS

Even their fucking god Tharapita is based on/from Thor.

"According to several medieval chronicles, Estonians did not work on Thursdays (days of Thor) and Thursday nights were called "evenings of Tooru". "

Why are these not norse people, so very norse?

>It shows westen Lithuania as finnic, which it has never been
Ever heard of Livonians?
>And it shows the island of Hiiumaa which was never settled by Finns either.
Yes it was, by Finnic Oeselians

What of it?Novgorod was also mentioned in Sagas but it wasn't founded and predominately inhabited by Scandinavians.

>Livonians
Didn't live in Curonia which were the ones I meant. And Curonians didn't speak Finnic.

No proof they were Finnic.
While all sources about them SUGGESTS they either spoke Norse or same language as the Curonians, which wasn't Finnic.

>Variations similar to the name "Thor" are known to many peoples who speak Uralic languages. The Khants have a god named Torum, the Samis have Turms, and the Samoyeds have Tere. Finnish bishop Mikael Agricola mentions in 1551 a war god called Turisas, although this is more likely to refer to Thurisas; the Finns had also a god of harvest, luck and success called Tuuri.
Doesn't make them Norse. Thor ultimately stems from a Proto-Indo-European religion, it's not a Scandicuck-exclusive thing.

>tfw they stole all the sexy woman and only left slags for the anglos

>Fighting with the Swedes
They're related to you just because they've fought at your side?

I thought you'd only dare to plagiarize early Russian history,but this seems to be more of a national affliction than an isolated case of appropriation.

>And Curonians didn't speak Finnic
They didn't, but the people north of them did. See that little cape north of Curonia? That's Livonian territory.
>No proof they were Finnic.
No proof they were Norse either.

We're talking about the only sources about them.

There's no reason to believe they were finnic.
But they were probably Balts who could speak Norse and there where lots of Norse living there.

>Even their fucking god Tharapita is based on/from Thor
kekkity, by that logic we're Baltoslavs because Perkele is from Perkunas

So sparcity of sources and a general lack of academic interest of further researching this particular topic are the strongest elements in your argument?

Wizards as in 30 year old virgins? Yeah, sounds about right.

>There's no reason to believe they were finnic.
Yes there is, everything north of Latgalians was Finnic territory.

>1200 CE
Cause that's the Norse/viking period!


The point of all of this is whether or not there lived norse people in Estonia during the Viking period. Which they did.
There are no sources that claim they (Oeselians) where Finnic.

>Cause that's the Norse/viking period!
How's that relevant to the fact that at the time Saaremaa and even most of Sweden was Finnic?

>that at the time Saaremaa and even most of Sweden was Finnic?
Neither the name saaremaa or Sweden as a nation existed during that time.

And they are Sami.
Whom at the time had probably no difference between it and Finnic.

All of this is the germans and russia's fault for killing most natives in the Baltics.

>Neither the name saaremaa or Sweden as a nation existed during that time.
Proof on the former?
>Sami
Nop, Kvens

Saaremaa is just a literal translation of Eysysla to Estonian/Finnic.

Are you saying Vikings thought Finns were an RPG class or middle aged virgins?

It might be the other way around.

Not when it's from Gutnish Oysl.

The word saari is older than Proto-Germanic. Some dialect of Swedish having Oysl in it proves nothing.

I never see threads like this made by Swedes or Norwegians.

Why are Finns so obsessed with themselves, they're like nobody lol

By redpilling people we can bring an end to Svecoman falsification of history and their lies.

>historical revisionism finn at it again
I'm impressed the l1_Finland memage was posted all the way in the middle of the thread. Usually that's the first thing this turboautist post.

Not an argument

I don't know why Mongolmen hates us so, we left their shitty language and culture alone for 600 years.
For almost a millennium we were one.
I mean we screwed with Sami sure... But finns are not snowniggers?

Swedes founded Russia. We named Estonia.
Finns are Swedes. We were the Varangian Guard. We ruled the weak Finns for almost 1000 years.

Finns are nothing, they have accomplished nothing. This is why anything Finnic now have been Finnic since the dawn of time. And everything else have been Finnic.

But history will remember the Finns as nothing more than tinkerers of indestructible phones.

Nice psychosis.

Vana hea Rootsi aeg. For a reason my friend.
Estonia loves us more than you!

Dude, you're just making an ass of yourself.

You do know these were built starting from the 14th century?