I posted this thread earlier and I don't understand why it was deleted...

I posted this thread earlier and I don't understand why it was deleted. I'm an aging software developer in my 30s who's finding it increasingly impossible to compete with younger people in the job market. Is it time to just throw in the towel and kill myself or is there still some kind of hope left? I have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck, so if I get fired from this job I'm going to be homeless.

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get a trade job and freelance developing software on the side.

save money from the trade job.

just fucking kill yourself

How do I just "get a trade job"? I have no other valuable skills.

I feel like there is so much demand for software development that anyone with as much experience as you have should be able to get a job, at some salary level. It might take playing the numbers game, but eventually you'd get one. From what I understand, even total idiots get hired not infrequently by software companies.

I still might be able to get a job, but it's been getting more and more difficult every time. I think I'm very close to the point where I actually become unhireable. I just don't have the energy and mental acuity that people in their 20s have.

How the fuck do you reach your 30s as a software developer and still live paycheck to paycheck?

The cost of living is insanely expensive in the cities where the jobs are.

No, you're just a fucking idiot.

I make around $4k each month as an independent contractor. After taxes that's $3k. My rent is $1700, and that's in a shitty neighborhood. Health insurance is $450, food is another $300-400, utilities $200. That leaves me with less than $300 each month that always goes to random other necessities that come up.

(notice I save money by not even having a car and still barely make enough to survive)

>working as an independent contractor
Have you considered getting a real job?

>food
>300-400 usd

you done goofed

It is a real job. Have you never heard of a 6 month contract for a project?

I have no time or energy to cook ever. When I come home from work I'm completely exhausted every day. So I have to just get fast food most of the time.

Find a new profession. You're not into it if you can't keep up.

>Health insurance
LMAO might as well just flush that $500 down the toilet. Are you serious? Health insurance in 2017?
>My rent is $1700
Wtf!? Work remote from Southeast Asia, you can lease a mansion for 3 years for $1700, it's the biggest secret that every contractor and consultant except you is practicing.
>finding it increasingly impossible to compete with younger people
Literally how? IT is rife with incompetent morons and the college grads are among the worst offenders. It's true employers like youngboi slaves that they can bully into working 80 hour weeks but you should be able to pull gigs by skill alone even without that

How did you not plan for this? How do you get into software and not plan your escape route, in case this kind of thing happens and you hit the 40 wall? Why didn't you take team lead or more managerial or "architect" roles as time went on? Why didn't you pick niche jobs that are comfy because nobody else wants to do them? Where did you think the money was?

What escape route? This career has pretty much been wageslavery from day one, just like any other career. And what is the 40 wall?

>unhireable

I was a college counselor for 10 years and heard that word from a lot of "older" students returning to school after their past career fell through.

They all said they were afraid of being "unhireable", and wanted to study again. I'll tell you what I told all of those damn idiots.

No one is unhireable. A 60 year old can get hired as a chicken griller at a Mexican restaurant, and a 15 year old can get hired as a box pusher at a Chinese warehouse. Don't be afraid of starting over and working your way up a different ladder. Gonna miss sitting in a comfy chair all day? Too bad.

>BUT MUH EDUCATION

It's obviously failed you if you're saying
>I have no other valuable skills

You're not gonna learn jack shit sitting in a cold lonely office, autistically tapping away at a keyboard. You have time to learn new skills. Mid 30's with no energy posting on Sup Forums? get your ass on and DO SOMETHING about it.

Plenty of people had to start over from absolutely nothing, be grateful you at least still have a place to live, internet access, and food. Save cash and get looking for new job fields on the weekends. Anything is possible.

you sound like a huge cuck, OP

>You're not gonna learn jack shit sitting in a cold lonely office, autistically tapping away at a keyboard
yeah cause being fit gets you a job, not actually having a practical skill

>A 60 year old can get hired as a chicken griller at a Mexican restaurant
How is that preferable to suicide?

>Wtf!? Work remote from Southeast Asia, you can lease a mansion for 3 years for $1700, it's the biggest secret that every contractor and consultant except you is practicing.
Not OP, but... this is something I've thought about. However, I'm scared of living in a 3rd world country cause I imagine lots of people would want to rob me for being a white foreigner with a tech job.
What's the reality?

It is pretty important to at least lift some dumbells or something every day, I've found. If I just sit all the time in front of the screen to get work done I find that my overall energy level goes down a bit. I think maybe the body enters some sort of energy saving mode since it realizes you're not hungry and you're not about to get attacked by a tiger any time soon. You can get yourself out of this by just doing some exertion. "Get the blood flowing".

You make 48k/year... before tax... in your 30s... as a software engineer? Do you work 10 hours a week? Are you so incompetent that nobody will hire you? Do you have a mental illness that you haven't mentioned that might fill in some of the gaps here without a longer explanation?

40 is where HR looks at you as old news and pretty much no small company will hire you. Tech is notoriously ageist, so even if you weren't as incompetent as you are, people hit that wall anyway. I can't imagine how bad it's going to be for you.

Everybody plans to do something else by 40. You either dig in and become a greybeard on something the new kids hate (SQL would have been a great choice), or you become management.

> Invest into some management courses and books.
> Improve your people skills
> Ascend the ladder and start managing the fuck out of those 20 year olds.
> Profit!

Alternatively. start building a side project that you can eventually turn into a full time job or that you can at least use as backup money if you get fired.

I have lots of mental illnesses, including on and off depression and social anxiety, but I think those are caused by how shitty my life has gone, not the other way around.

I don't know if people still use this site, but it at least used to be pretty accurate and gave people a network of other remote workers doing stuff like that to discuss different places with: nomadlist.com/

You're a product of the system, a slave to the money. Elevate or conform yourself.

Lol, either this is bait or OP has some serious problems with financial planning.

>yeah cause being fit gets you a job, not actually having a practical skill

you don't even have to get fit, just exercising can get fluids moving in your body and will 100% stimulate your brain to get more active. There's a reason more active people work out BEFORE even heading into work. It works. getting more fit is like step -1, learning a new skill, technical or people skills, is like step 7. you have to put in the work.

Ok thanks, I guess now I know what age I should make sure I've committed suicide by.

>just exercising can get fluids moving in your body and will 100% stimulate your brain to get more active
is this how brainlets operate?

>muh pull yourself up by the bootstraps meme
fuck off with this garbage

>My rent is $1700, and that's in a shitty neighborhood
>utilities $200
You're paying too much.

Thanks user. Looks useful.

Oh, you're one of those guys. Just do what says and at least get your body moving. You're shaking your head thinking nope, that's fake and gay, but it'll totally work. I fucking swear it will help.

What's the alternative, giving up?

>muh silver spoon

I don't have time to exercise, even if I wanted to. And I've tried it in the past, it doesn't do anything for me, it's just a waste of time. I'm pretty sure I have some kind of undiagnosed heart condition, because sometimes if I just walk for too long, I get really out of breath and nauseous and need to rest for a few hours to get back to normal. So exercise would probably be dangerous for me regardless.

>ugh, I have to work for something?
>fuck that

the post.

>sometimes if I just walk for too long, I get really out of breath and nauseous and need to rest for a few hours to get back to normal
It's called being out of shape.

I think your biggest problem is you're a defeatist cuck who lets life push you around instead of taking any initative

Absolutely true. Get the body moving, lift some weights, and you'll get into a more confident, relaxed frame of mind. This will make you more productive and make it easier to see opportunities.
Focus on what you have, not what you don't. You're still in a position that billions of people all over the world would trade places with in an instant.
You're still young.
You have a job.
You live in a first world country.
You don't have any serious health problems (I'm assuming).

This is a great post. It's disappointing the other anons responded bitterly, but I really appreciated it. It's motivating to read for both myself and my dad who needs to find work at 60

My dad has a heart condition too, so I assume I probably have same thing. It's not something I can do anything about, how does that make me a cuck?

Just lift some dumbells for a couple minutes a day. If it feels good, do more. If it doesn't feel good, just do a couple minutes a day.

I'm not one of the retards recommending you start exercising to fix your job problems, I'm just talking about your attitude towards life in general

What heart condition? You just sound out of shape dude.

Tell me how that's supposed to help me without citing pseudoscience.

>It's called being out of shape

I was about to post the same shit
this guy is probably the generic fat neckbeard that Sup Forums is portrayed as

I don't know what it's called. I just know he has to be really careful not to overexert himself. Never really looked into it for myself, because I don't honestly care one way or another about my health.

No, I'm 160lbs at 6ft.

All I can say is that it helps me to feel better and be more productive. As I've said elsewhere, I speculate that when you don't exert your body at all for too long, your body goes into a sort of energy saving mode. This would make sense in ancient times when calories were scarce.
However, I have no scientific basis for believing my speculation is true, it's just an idea. I do know that lifting some weights whenever I start to feel lethargic helps me, and I generally feel happier and sharper when I'm doing a little bit of physical exercise each day.
I don't do a lot, I literally just lift some moderately heavy dumbbells every now and then and I walk pretty much everywhere if it's less than 3 miles or so away, rather than taking a vehicle. I don't go to the gym or do anything else super fitnessy.

>physically exerts himself
>heart beats faster
>"I-I'm gonna die!"
Have you literally never exercised or played a sport?

Have you ever heard of direct hire? Why would you work such a shitty contract job that's obviously well below median in your area if you're paying $1700 in fucking rent?

Get a real job cuck

The only way you would be losing is if instead of being a real software developer you're just some idiot who knows a few things and can't learn new ones.
Every software developer that is worth anything can learn new languages/frameworks/whatever in under a week.

It's the best I can find I guess. Like I said it's been getting more and more difficult to find work every year.

In your 30s, you become a lot slower at learning new things, so why would they hire me if there's someone 10 years younger than me who can learn a new framework twice as fast?

>In your 30s, you become a lot slower at learning new things
Hasn't been my experience so far.
t. 34

Why are you getting a new job every year? Have you been doing temp jobs your whole working career?

Were I you, and thank Christ I'm not, I'd be pumping out applications daily, talking with recruiters and requesting only consideration for direct hire, and play the numbers game. Eventually, provided you're not an actual retard, you'll find *someone* to hire you.

Real question, have you been diagnosed for depression? You might want to look into that.

ever heard of something like experience OP? it's more valuable than anything a fresh college grad can bring to the table, so unless you've been slacking off for 20 years, doing the same shit and not learning new stuff on the way, you should have a big advantage over these people.

>disappointing the other anons responded

OFF BY ONE, GG

That wasn't made up bullshit either. I was helping out at a job fair and a guy on the wrong side of 60 came up and nervously started asking about jobs. I treated him the same way I did all the other people I helped that day. Went through skills, what he was willing/able to do. It wasn't much, but he had experience as a cook and turns out he had no problem being out in the sun. By chance I had had lunch at a Mexican restaurant that afternoon where there was a help wanted sign. I drove him there and helped him talk to the manager. I used every trick I knew to get him to be confident and speak clearly. He did all the negotiating. The restaurant took him in as a temp and TLDR, they liked him and his grilling so much that they ended up putting a large grill outside the restaurant with the old guy grilling and smiling at guests and it brought in way more people. It was a win win. All it took was some confidence to go to a job fair and talk to someone.

I've worked in jobs where I was an employee, and there's literally no difference between the two. I usually get paid a slightly higher rate with contract work, so it's actually better in that regard.

is a story about a 60 year old getting a minimum wage job supposed to be inspiring

$48k isn't even median US salary user.

The difference in being a full-time employee is benefits, paid vacation, and actual job security, which you obviously need.

>working your way up a different ladder
>start at the lowest position in the company and get promotions without doing anything but just being there for a long time! This happens a lot!
This meme needs to die. For starters you assume the person has leadership skills and can manage people. Then you assume the company he works for does this kind of thing. Then you assume he will be chosen instead of some other guy that is better than him.

When I was 25 I'm pretty sure I was a lot more hireable and valuable than a 35 year old.

>I have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck, so if I get fired from this job I'm going to be homeless.
sorry OP, but you're suffering from capitalism

>software developer with actual experience
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE DO NOT QUIT! You have no idea how desperate the industry is to have more people like you!

>they liked him and his grilling
A literal retard with extra chromosomes can learn how to grill. What's the point of this story?

OP, I feel for you and I was in the doldrums just like you. Can't you just quit your job, move back in with your parents, and take a sabbatical while you readjust your bearings? Don't take your own life, you've only been in this one job and you don't like it, so move on, there are other things out there. I know it sucks that you don't have any savings, that's why you should be saving money in the first place, and I know it'll be a shot at your self-esteem moving back in, but this economy we live in is brutal and it sounds like you really need some time off. I eventually quit the industry and went back to school, so now I'm feeling a bit better and have a better bearing in life and what kind of job to look for. The software industry can be brutal for some, but there's a job out there for anybody, so I would pray about it and hopefully God will give you a position that you can enjoy and be content with. Philippians 4:11-13 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through him who gives me strength. Zechariah 4:6b Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.

What are you talking about? The industry seems to be saturated with programmers now.

amen bro

>I'm scared of living in a 3rd world country cause I imagine lots of people would want to rob me for being a white foreigner with a tech job.
I am a foreigner living in SEA, and have been living here for a very long time. For a single person, USD$1700 (OP's rent) is enough to live like a king.

>In your 30s, you become a lot slower at learning new things
See, the problem here is that you learned things instead of learning how to learn things.
The plasticity of the brain does indeed decrease as we age, but if you're off the map at 30 and your work experience is worthless, you fucked up at prioritizing what to do so the correct neurons get covered in myelin.
Also, if you're 30+, you should have accumulated soft/managerial skills so you get positions of project leader / manager / etc instead of coding by now. At least get some dumb certifications like being scrum master or some other worthless dumb shit that looks good on a CV.

with shitty ones yes. ive been working for a year now and im yet to work with someone who's been in the industry more than 6 years.

Worse without this you will eventually become brainlet yourself.

>not exercising will reduce brain function
if anything it's the other way around

Ok, so I assume it's too late for me to reverse that brain damage? I guess suicide is really looking the only viable option.

It is time to stop this type of thinking, and start exercising. You will improve your physical and mental well-being. Going to the gym will not get you a better job, but it will get you into a healthier state of mind, and THAT will help you get a job.

What part of SEA, if I may ask?

He went from jobless to $13/h faggot, it's about starting somewhere. All you fat fucks just want to land in a comfy $80k job with minimal effort. Maybe some people get that luxury, but not everyone.

>There's a reason more active people work out BEFORE even heading into work
Yes, because you have no other fucking time on the day. Who is going to go do exercise after working all day? You're tired.
I've been hitting the gym for about a year 2/3 times a week, lifting only, and I don't notice much change in my life, other than now having shoulders and my pecs being a muscle instead of non existant.

>The industry seems to be saturated with "programmers" now.
Do you mean people who attend 2-week koding bootkamps where they take selfies with HTML and coffee? Yeah, OP is going to have a pretty hard time competing with them in when it comes to selfie-taking contests.

I seriously hope you are joking right now.

Starting somewhere when you're supposed to be retired isn't inspiring, it's sad

>Is it time to just throw in the towel and kill myself or is there still some kind of hope left?
I never had a degree so I've been living paycheck to paycheck for about 10 years now.

I'd say learn something hip and new like nodejs but Sup Forums would probaby frown on that.

You learned how to write programs and you cant learn how to use a hammer and nails? or basic roofing?

>total idiots get hired not infrequently by software companies.
This is true, although normally these people have way more misplaced confidence than OP

You could try living from a truck for a few months.

Save that juicy rent.

>So I have to just get fast food most of the time.
Absolute bullshit. You can prep meals for the week ahead on weekends.
Cook bolognese, pre-marinade chicken teriaki.
It takes 10 minutes to simmer up some teriyaki and boil rice or pasta.

Its starting to sound like you are making excuses for yourself.

not that dude but Thailand is good. Checkout nomadlist dot com for more info

It works the same, it's just slower.
If you want your neurons to get good at learning, you need to actively try to learn new things every day.
And not random things, but those in that area. If you learn 5 different spoken languages it won't do shit for learning new programming languages or frameworks fast.

Nobody with an above average iq should ever have to work a minimum wage job. In fact, that kind of income should be reserved strictly for borderline retards. Even people on disability get more money than that from the government.

>I've been hitting the gym for about a year 2/3 times a week, lifting only, and I don't notice much change in my life, other than now having shoulders and my pecs being a muscle instead of non existant.
this
the 'exercise improves your mood' meme needs to die
sure it does sometimes and playing sports is fun but it's not some pick-me-up that gets depressed people out of depression

>supposed to

no one is supposed to be doing anything. all you speak of is the wheels of capitalism forcing you to be somewhere and doing something at all parts of your life "or else".

Malaysia, but do not come here based solely on my advice. I have US friends who liked Thailand and Vietnam more, and no, not because of the sex tourism. If you take a look at the site linked by user above, you find that Thailand and Vietnam are both in the top 10 list.

...obviously Malaysia is nice too, which is why I am staying here. But country-by-country comparison is not important: All of SEA is very friendly, and all of SEA (sans Singapore) is VERY VERY cheap! And even Singapore is fine, as the ultra high salaries there will make it as cheap as the rest in terms of purchasing power.

>the 'exercise improves your mood' meme needs to die
problem is, it does, but your body eventually adapts, and you need to do more. just like external drugs. it becomes a burden in a way

I think most people would rather be retired when they're old, unless they have a great career already, people don't enjoy minimum wage jobs

>problem is, it does, but your body eventually adapts, and you need to do more
it doesnt, as the OP already pointed out
making changes to the problems in your life makes you less depressed, not "LIFT SOME WEIGHTS BRUH"

>software developer
>living paycheck to paycheck

So glad I moved abroad. Fuck life back home.

>it doesnt
biochemistry says it does. works on my machine :^)