Do you follow the cat-v philosophy Sup Forums? Do you try to avoid harmful software?

Do you follow the cat-v philosophy Sup Forums? Do you try to avoid harmful software?

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github.com/systemd/systemd/issues?q=is:issue is:closed label:not-a-bug
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What the fuck is he basing this off of?

Cat-v and people like uriel follow UNIX Style very strictly.

>crippling yourself

>head
>sed 11q
No, no more, I'm done.

I love how it isn't "healthy alternatives" and just "less harmful alternatives"
one less BSD licence cuck LMAO

The hostile and cancerous cat-v community is the epitome of everything wrong with the so-called "UNIX way". Everything is just dismissed as "harmful" based on a completely subjective and arbitrary decision.

cat-v is the caricature of the inherently toxic BSD community. Instead of contributing upstream, people fork each others projects based on some vaguely defined ideology and not only cause but also encourage project infighting. This is why there are two hundred gorillean BSD forks, with maximum 14 developers on each project. This is why we have competing SSL implementations, competing libc implementations, competing display managers, competing BSDs, etc.

I unironically hope that the reason Uriel decided to off himself was because he came to the realisation that he had contributed nothing of value, except posting inflammatory texts on a pseudo-satirical website.

I seriously hope you're not using "toxic" unironically

>C
>less harmful
Compared to what? Brainfuck?

I agree with Uriel on some of these recommendations (Tk is awesome and completely underrated, GNU info does suck, etc.), but to recommend DjVu as a replacement for EPUB is not sane. It is also a bad and literally harmful idea to encourage people to use CSV, which developed with no spec at all and as a result countless slightly incompatible versions.
His aesthetics.

I am. If you don't see how the attitude of people like Uriel and Theo de Raadt attracts idealistic fucktards just as much as FSF does and alienates pragmatic developers and maintainers, then you are part of the problem.

You're starting to sound like an SJW, don't do that

yeah basically, won't catch me suffering xml config files or trash software when more straightforward alternatives exist

it's a joke you sensitive fanny

Simplicity is objective.

Tk is indeed awesome.

All his editor suggestions are shit

thing made by bell labs good
other thing bad

You're an idiot, and most likely an autistic one too seeing how you focus on semantics rather than content. I just fucking said that blind ideology is cancerous and leads to fragmentated and hostile communities, and you're accusing me of being an SJW (aka adhering to a blind ideology that leads to fragmentation and hostility)...

acme rules ok

I disagree with him that vim, emacs, and nano are harmful. However, sam and acme are also god tier and ed is the standard editor

Dismissing software you don't like based on disagreements on ideology is autistic. Uriel doesn't promote the software he does because they are more simple, he promotes them because of the people who made them.

Fuck off Rob

Actually, going far away from UNIX philosophy is one of the reasons why SJWs are taking over tech.

having standards is not "blind ideology"

he's not saying objectively harmful, he's saying vim's design is stupid because it implements a full programming language rather than just interfacing with all command-line text searching and editing tools in a seamless way like acme and sam do, and exporting a little interface as a virtual fileserver for writing addons

it's not ideology, it's disagreements over the fundamentals like "is this program an infernal piece of shit to use?" and "is this program buggy, constantly breaking backwards compatibility, or implemented in a really shitty way?"

simplicity of use and simplicity of implementation are objectively desirable things

>it's a joke
Hare to tell these days with the mentally deranged people these communities harbor.

>Simplicity is objective.
How do you measure it? Do you look at the simplicity of implementation or use? Former according to cat -v subhumans (more accurately, fewer lines of C code = simpler = better), this is of course entirely subjective.

what did he mean by this?

>POO EATER AND PROUD

For example, an interface of 20 functions is objectively simpler than an interface of 150 functions.

>muh UNIX philosophy
FSF is full of femnazis and SJWs, and they are the most vocal in protesting systemd for being against their perceived definition of "muh UNIX way".

Friendly reminder that "the unix way" is vague, arbitrary and subjective. Friendly reminder that software designed following the UNIX way includes shit like Go, a re-invented C without generics, without proper exception handling (returning a SECOND value you still need to check, is still using a return value for error handling) and a broken module import functionality that fucking downloads directly from Github repos without being able to specify version/commit or providing checksums or providing any form of security checking. These things are the result of using "the unix way" when inventing a programming language.

>muh 'nerics
ever time hahaha

sometimes

>For example, an interface of 20 functions is objectively simpler than an interface of 150 functions.
Yes, and?

No sane person would promote Go, unless they where adhering to a blind ideology. See

> XML
> Less harmful alternatives:
> CSV, plaintext

I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone.

No wonder you don't miss them, looking at the contributions of your average cat -v tard, it's mostly trivial toy programs that solve already solved problems.

how is he not right

>they are the most vocal in protesting systemd for being against their perceived definition of "muh UNIX way".
Good, systemd is absolute trash made by a dumbass

XML is crap, but at least it's a standard way of expressing hierarchical structured data. Saying that CSV and plaintext would be less harmful just makes him a troll.

Neither are an alternative to XML.

And the FSF are full of literal communists and femnazis that want to control your code by forcing you to sign over the copyright to the FSF.

Also, systemd is objectively good so you're just wrong.

>Also, systemd is objectively good so you're just wrong.
I've never seen a statement so wrong before. Don't you have WONT FIX to be applying to bug reports?

I guess you think the Unix philosophy was the only way computing was done back then?

how is json not an alternative to xml?
can't you encode basically the same data in a slightly different way with json?

>unironically defending the FSF
Friendly reminder that according to the FSF, making it difficult to write plugins for your software is actually a preferable approach to software design because it is the only way to ensure that people don't use GPL projects and write their own non-GPL plugins to them.

Reading comprehension is harmful too, I suppose.

:(

Exceptionsfags will be the first to go on the day of the log.Fatalf.

>broken module import functionality that fucking downloads directly from Github repos
Wrong, you just indicated that you've never used Go. If you don't have a package installed, the import directive causes an error. It doesn't download anything.

>without being able to specify version/commit
Wrong again.

>providing checksums
It's git.

>or providing any form of security checking
It's git. Set up your SSH keys and accepted hosts and you can be as secure or insecure in running "go get" as you like.

>These things are the result of using "the unix way" when inventing a programming language.
Actually the amount of shit the go command does is inherently un-Unix. It's the Perl way, you clueless twat.

You'd defend necrophilia if le cat-v man had written criticism of it on the internet.

You don't sound blinded by ideology at all.

>"systemd is shit because I don't like the person behind it"

Thank you for proving my point: >Dismissing software you don't like based on disagreements on ideology is autistic. Uriel doesn't promote the software he does because they are more simple, he promotes them because of the people who made them.

I wasn't defending the FSF, I was calling him a dumbshit for unironically defending systemd

Not necessarily. It's a very primitive metric and, while it is objective, it is not in and of itself an objective measure of a program's simplicity. For instance, those 20 functions could take dozens of flags that radically changed what they did while the 150 could do one thing each. Watch Rich Hickey's lecture "Simple Made Easy" if you haven't.

Also,
>It is better to have 100 functions operate on one data structure than 10 functions on 10 data structures. —Alan Perlis

Why are you all so angry? What's your design philosophy? What's your favored software?

>It's git. Set up your SSH keys and accepted hosts and you can be as secure or insecure in running "go get" as you like.
Why would you need SSH keys if it doesn't download anything?

>taking advice on what's harmful from a faggot that killed himself

systemd is objectively good and people only hate it because Lennart is a faggot, not because it's a bad idea or even broken by design.

Prove me wrong.

Systemd is absolute trash by design, lennart will often completely ignore bugs with a WONT FIX tag applied to them.

github.com/systemd/systemd/issues?q=is:issue is:closed label:not-a-bug

>Look, I just disagree with Lennart's project philosophy
Proving my point yet again.

You're showing your stupidity and inexperience again. You said using "import" causes your code (that is, the compiler parsing the code) to download modules. Not so, you have to manually download them using the "go get" command, or manually plop their directories under $GOPATH using "git clone" or whatever.

>For instance, those 20 functions could take dozens of flags that radically changed what they did while the 150 could do one thing each.
Yeah and I think one would have an easy time telling which is the better designed API.

>Ignoring and creating bugs is a feature you baka

>you have to hack config files and environment variables to point imports to the correct path + commit version
>good idea
Pick one.

>you should spend time arguing up and down on email lists about bugs that aren't bugs or not possible to fix because of ideology
You'll fit right in on cat-v or OpenBSD!!

>i've never used it before so it's shit and a ridiculous suggestion
anti-cat-v fags crack me up

>>without being able to specify version/commit
>Wrong again.
Last I checked the Go way was forking it for every version change lol.

Kek

>I've never used it but it was not made by rob pike so I categorically dislike it

Lennart and other devs do their shit on github and even then they fuck it up

lol are you the cuck that was molested by the evil BSD IRC channels

I don't use IRC so no.

>>you have to hack config files and environment variables to point imports to the correct path + commit version
Talking bollocks again. What config files, what environment variables? Anyone using Go already has $GOPATH and $GOROOT set.

To get a specific commit, just use git.

Forking what for every version change of what?

Relax. You're both sheltered as fuck and have never seen a significantly different computer system design.

>I've never used it but it was made by rob pike or one of the original unix authors so I categorically dislike it

UNIX is objectively a shit clone of Multics

Why are you all so angry? What's your design philosophy? What's your favored software?

Why is HTTP usage discouraged?

>shilling Go this hard
Look, if I wanted a C 2.0 with garbage collection, I would have just used D to begin with.

probably an angry lispfag

Versions? Who needs em?!

old

>the other big role of a package manager is handling multiple versions of the same package. >Go takes the most minimal and pragmatic approach of any package manager. There is no such thing as multiple versions of a Go package.
Are Rob Pike and Ken Thompson literally trapped in the past?

use git you moron

http sucks dude. have you seen the standard?

>new major versions of your package must have their own repository
>the above philosphy really doesn't have a downside, there are no version numbers to worry about. Awsome!

I would cry if I wasn't already aware that the cat-v/plan9/unix/bsd way is to fork everything you like because why contribute upstream when you can fork!!

Why would you keep multiple versions of a package? Do you like bugs and vulns?

Still correct.

>use git you moron

What do you think repository and HEAD refers to, dumbass?

>Are Rob Pike and Ken Thompson literally trapped in the past?
Of course they are. Which is why they basically re-invented C with garbage collection.

> "Go get" does not have any explicit concept of package versions.
Literally from the go-lang faq page.

>use git you moron
Are you dumb?

too complex for cat -v brainlets :((

>Why would you keep multiple versions of a package? Do you like bugs and vulns?
Known bugs are preferable to unknown bugs.

Your question is like asking why there are stable-releases at all. Why don't everyone just use a rolling release distro?

rusties getting toasty

if you want specific commits, use git

Yes, this is in fact the reason. We like bugs and vulns.

Some people are actually working on large production systems not toy web dev projects with three files user.

>http sucks dude. have you seen the standard?
It's totally adhering to the UNIX way though.

Should have gone with gopher

good thing a package doesnt change on your filesystem until you go get -u it again

stop looking for irrelevant shit to whine about

>if you want specific commits, use git
>having multiple clones of the repo checked out on different commits because Go can't handle specific commits

u wot

what are you on about?

>his code only runs on his system
Hobbyists please go.

>the whole discussion is that Go imports doesn't handle versions
>"irrelevant shit"
You sound like Lennart Poettering tbqh famalam

Why even write open source software if you're all ass blasted when somebody forks?

It's literally why we have open source licenses in the first place.

>u wot
It's simple and does one thing really well. How does it not?

>dont fork free software
holy fuck you are retarded

neither are true

What I like about uriel, cat-v, suckless, FSF, and UNIX philosphy is that mere mentioning of any will send the board into a frenzy

It's the package version of manual memory management -- without even a type system to help you. "Just don't make mistakes." Meanwhile, other languages keep track of this crap automatically and declaratively rather than imperatively.