Perfect Programming Language

if you could build the perfect programming language, what would it be like?

Python, but faster.

People who like python don't have solid reasons to like python. They like python because that's what they know.
You hear them claim things like "it's like executable pseudo code!". Which isn't true in any way. When you look at conferences where python is discussed they never discuss any of the upsides to the languages but tend to appeal to the cultural side (it's popular, it has encouraged open source in data science, it's multiparadigm so many people can use it).
If we look at another language like C++ they all have tangible reasons for why they use it. And most of them will say that if you don't have performance concerns you're not using the right language. They celebrate individual features in context of the language and look at objective measures like 'how often did this bug we just prevented happen in real code?'.
That's what serious programmers do. I'm not a fan of sepples but they're at least serious programmers.
Python programmers are just there because people have recommended the language to them.
Ultimately declarative FP is an ideal representation of execution. As for syntax that's not well known.

how is python not close to psuedo code lmao

The perfect language is C with the sugar of D and Python/Lua/Ruby minus the OOP, the preprocessor or of Lisp and the build tools of Rust.

>Lisp preprocessor
Surely you don't mean that. You mean something that fills the role of the lisp preprocessor. The ability to modify the ast mainly.
We're looking for the perfect language.
>sugar of D/python/lua/ruby
Can't really think of where you're going that. Ranges are cool i guess?

There already is perfect language, it's C#.
It has good enough performance, if you want more you can use unsafe mode which is basically C++. It has most comfy syntax.

Only reason it's not liked is because "muh proprietary microshit", even now when m$ open sourced c# and you can run it on almost anything with .net core

Ada is pretty close to the ideal programming language
its fast, its safe, and its really readable
i'd like something of a mix between Ada and C though, to get better bit-manipulations and low-level control

You had 3 rhymes in a row senpai, good job!

JAI
Release4 will be great.

Already exists, it's called PHP

APL, but compilable.

By which I don't mean that shitty """compiler""" Perlis conjectured.

C++ with the syntax cleaned up, a standardised ABI, the undefined behaviour cases removed or at least made into compile errors, and STL streams burned in the fires of hell.

this, but unironically

Python has a ton of useful features (decorators, generators, context managers, etc.). Learning how to effectively use these gets you a step closer to mastering Python. Implementing that kind of functionality in Java/C++ is a lot more difficult and generally not worth the time unless you need that kind of functionality.

Similarly, coming into Python from a Java/C++ background might create extremely long, slow programs in Python because if there is something you can do in C++/Java in one way, there is probably a quicker way to do it in Python.

Liking Python for being "close to pseudocode" is also a fair reason.

Haskell with dependent types and no partial functions

not him but not everyone writes pseudocode the same way

C# without microsoft botnet and the ability to use a few lower level features like defining custom primitives

>need to install 34 different versions of .NET

Pic related has unironically been making steady progress towards perfection.

Java is the best language

Regards

RUST
U
S
T

My god for fuck sakes can i pls not see these retards in Sup Forums?

>hurr derr python is for chumps derr
Ofc there are people use py to learn prog. But its main use is implementation. When youre trying to implement complex algorithms or mathmatical model and have enough computational power you fucking do not want to write your first implementation in c++.

Bitorrent; youtube; twitter; etc etc were written in py.

My god you are retarded

Java with kotlin, the perfect combo

C++ with less features and options

English (or any other natural language, really).

I know about a dozen programming languages and I still like Python for its readability, ease of rapid prototyping, and its “batteries included” approach. It saves me a lot of time and typing when I just want to get something up and running as quickly as possible. You cannot deny that most languages are easily more verbose than Python. Most languages have a pretty small standard library compared to Python.

People who make stupid blanket statements like “people who like [language] aren’t serious programmers” are probably not serious programmers themselves. A serious programmer doesn’t seek validation for his programming ‘prowess’ in the fucking languages he uses lmao

C++ but better.

C# is breddy gud but it's not native.
Fuck VMs.

It would be English and you would just describe what you wanted the computer to do in high level terms.

it would be Haskell but with strings that aren't lists of chars
the compiler would perform some kind of analysis to allocate everything it can on the stack and use refcounted structs on the heap for everything else
it would also transparently use mutation behind the scenes

I can't tell if this is bait. It's straddling that line of being believable and not believable.
>context managers
Very surprising you'd bring that up. In C++ or a multitude of other languages you just open an anonymous block. It's addressing what many consider a deficiency in python.
>generator
Trivial to do in just about any language. Unless this is a special python thing I'm unaware of.
>decorators
Typical OOP functionality.
>generally not worth the time unless you need that kind of functionality
Wow user impressive observational skills. Developing unnecessary features is a waste of time. You writing this casts doubt on your understanding that other languages have features python doesn't have. And the inverse is perfectly true. It's often presumed in these discussions that everyone knows this and when discussing languages we compare them as wholes.
>an experienced programmer will default to producing long slow programs in python
Interesting. Elaborate.
>liking python for being close to pseudo code
The problem isn't that a particular individual has a style of pseudo code that's similar to python and that's 'wrong'. The problem is that it's often brought up as a GENERAL point. That's awful. There has been attempts at generalizing pseudo code and you can look at some white papers if you're interested. The only similarity to python i see myself is that it's often written in an imperative style (though declarative is also common) and it often omits a lot of braces, using BEGIN (optional, I'd say it's uncommon) and END (potentially with identifier) as symbols for starting and closing blocks.
That's generalized pseudocode. In practice people are shaped by the languages they use. Python programmers will write pseudo code that's similar to python and other language-programmers mimic their languages.
It's very poor as a general point and that it's so common reflects poorly on the python community.

Like C++ except better templates, UFCS and no distinction between nonvirtual instance member functions and static member functions with a this parameter, a difference within the type system between pointers to values of an exact type and pointers to values inheriting from that type so itables can be used instead of vtables, modules instead of header garbage,
much more consistent syntax [spoiler]and no GC, Dfags [/spoiler]

Oh, and real exception specification. Allow me to check what exceptions can be thrown at compile time, and use inference when I don't make it explicit.

>fast as C slick as Ruby
if Crystal is anything as it claims then it is up there

everything is CLR anyway nowadays.

>validation
People who assume the reasons for others to hold opinions are not serious philosophers.
Also what I said is that the sepples community is serious. I didn't say python programmers as a group aren't. I will say that my experience with these programmers is that they're not serious in the sense that they're considering their language as a language among many others with alternative features. Their motivations (again, in my experience) is that they perceive their language as the best and others as inconvenient. user here () is a prime example with his context managers. He hasn't considered where this feature fits in all languages and if it'd be a nice idea in other languages. If he did he wouldn't even mention it probably.
I'm sure there's plenty of serious python programmers but I also think that they're probably misguided in their language choice.
Python is OK for smaller things. There's plenty of languages that fill that space. So you have to be discerning.
By contrast there hasn't been serious competition to C/C++ for over a decade for their user space. And before C++ C didn't really have competition either. The competition came from the (relative) lack of the space python lived in.
They've been pretty starved.

>Stop liking what I don’t like! If you like what I don’t like then that means you’re not as capable as me reeee!

The autism levels are off the charts, here. It cant simply be that people just like Python’s syntax for what it is and want to use it, can it? No, it has to be some end-all, be-all solution that’s objectively better than every other language in every context! Everyone knows that SERIOUS programmers pick C++ to be their holy grail and never consider using anything else!

Pick a language that you like and feel comfortable with and will get the job done. Note that that last part is important and not always applicable to Python, but there are many applications for which Python is a good choice, and trying to argue that people shouldn’t like it when it works for them just makes you look like an idiot.

>can't people like python syntax
Yes they can.
>every serious programmer should pick C++
No. I actually made it plenty clear I don't like C++. Even if I was pretending to have the best opinion on what programming language to use i wouldn't recommend that.
>it has to be some end all solution
In this thread it has to.
>I miss the point of this thread
Well done.
>pick whatever you like
You don't program in a vacuum. Poor decisions in language, paradigm and even low level decisions affect others. Be it on your team or your users (especially library users).
I can't let you do that Dave.

Clean (similar to pythons use of whitespace, no semicolons)
Static types
Lambdas are 1st class objects
Immutability and const vars by defaut

>her derr look at me im a pretentious fucking retard
It works n easy to develope.there needs to be no higher meaning to that ffs

>strongly typed
>statically typed
>small enough to keep a working knowledge in your head (like Go)
>minimal "magic" or unintuitive/unexplainable behavior
>maximize feature discovery

Rust

I'd say C++ but it lacks some important features

Maybe some future C++ version, C++29 anyone

>the absolute state of windows

> Chrome
> Discord
> Dropbox

lel

Check out Rebol and Red

Have you met agda?

this senpai
cant wait for C++ to die

of course you're "not him" that coward got shredded in one post and can absolutely NOT confront user. That's why you're here in his stead.

cuck