Why go to college? Is programing the new factory job?

>be me
>Graduated last year, CS degree from a prestigious college
>gets software developer job
>meet the co workers
>these fags dont even know maths cause most of them didnt go to college, so they just know programing from some no name bootcamp

Why the fuck did I go to college? Whats the purpose when these fags have the same job as me and they didnt even need to pass calculus?

With so many faggots going into programming, do you guys see programming becoming the new "factory" job, as in, there's a lot of demand but also a lot of available work force meaning that the salaries will be reduced in time and that programmers will be payed in pennies in the future with this influx?

>went to a shit company wtih shit pay
>wonder why the other employees are bottom of the barrel workers who couldn't find any jobs anywhere else

>Why the fuck did I go to college?

Because a lot of companies have a degree as a minimum requirement. That's it.

>With so many faggots going into programming, do you guys see programming becoming the new "factory" job

Only the really shit work.

It's not a shit company I assure you, it's a multinational company, one of the big ones.
The reason there are so many of these dumb fags is because there is a lot of demand for programers in my country, so these companies are desperate to hire anyone that knows java, C++ or other languages.

>falling for the college meme

It's your first job. Your career prospects are much better than theirs.

Sure a lot of companies have a degree as minimum requirement, but these fags get their certifications and "trade" degrees, and they get the same job as someone that when to an engineering college. It's the demand that's causing this. And I fear it will only get worse, as time goes by and as more people get into this business. The pay is going to have to come down for us.

>they just know programing from some no name bootcamp

If your employer is hiring bottom of the barrel staff like this, it's a shit employer.

I sure fucking hope so. One of my co workers didnt even know what a sin math function was. Is this the type of caliber usually found in the tech world?

>One of my co workers didnt even know what a sin math function was.
Go and get a new job before that place permanently taints your career.

How much are you being paid?

It's not a shit employer, it's one of the big tech companies (I wont tell which but it's a HP/Microsoft/IBM type of company).
The reason for this hiring is because there is a ton of demand for code monkeys lately, so they get whatever they can find.

You don't need to know trigonometry to make website scripts.

Whats the minimum requirement for not being considered a mathlet? I know basic calculus and mathematical notation.

The pay's great for a starting job, median salary here for normies is 800€, i'm getting payed as a first job around 1400€, so it's not bad.
My fear is that this shit, sooner or later is going to come crashing down as any faggot thinks "hurr programing iz cull" and get into the job market and flood it.

That's shit. You are working for a shit company.

What do you expect? You're a web dev. You don't need to know calculus.

>My fear is that this shit, sooner or later is going to come crashing down as any faggot thinks "hurr programing iz cull" and get into the job market and flood it.
where have you been the last couple of years?

I've got a good idea which ones it might be, but I won't incriminate you.

If they've decided to lower the hiring bar to that level, then their products are eventually going to suffer in a very visible way. Get out while you can.

True, but it pisses me off that I had to stay awake overnight many times so I could get things done in college and learn complex mathematics, and these guys just with their shit courses from bootcamps are getting into the market.

Try learning some calc 2, give it a shot.

What's a good wage then? 120k USD? That's the normal for someone that doesn't know calculus and is a junior web dev in San Fran.

You are a computer scientist, they are code monkeys. You have a lot of other options.
You can work with data mining, simulations, database management, actually challenging problems in software engineering and process optimization to list some.

Pajeet, pls.

And the normal for someone who does know calculus is 200k+ right after graduation, 300k+ once he reaches a senior level. If you are working for a shit company offering shit pay, why does it surprise you that the other people there are shit? If they were better they would be working better positions at better companies.

It's not bad pay believe me, the cost of life here is different from your country probably.

I'm not a web dev, i'm a soft dev

The thing is, in my country, every tech company you go, you can find these people, I know that cause I have friends that also work in other tech companies here, and they also find these types of morons. Only solution I can find is leaving the country, but my college only has prestige in my country, in other countries I'll probably be matched with pajeets since my school is not famous outside my country. Fuck my life.

>most don't even know math
Reason enough we should drop the T from STEM and make it SEM.

It scales that way as well for people that don't know calculus. You just have to be a web dev and know some React.JS and be passionate about unit testing etc and you'll be a senior in no time with a 300k+ salary at any company.

No need for calculus. Well that's how it goes at my company anyway.

OP got his first job at a shitty company and is now gloating that his employer hires code monkeys and he gets underpaid

All right, so you say that in time, I'll eventually get promoted and they will be stuck to lower positions? How much more of this suffering will I have to take before I can work with decent people?

All the smart ones already moved abroad. You're country is the equivalent of India.

>degree as a minimum
they don't say what type of degree because all these """""""engineers""""""" have liberal arts degrees.

>The thing is, in my country, every tech company you go, you can find these people

You should still be able to find an employer who doesn't hire people who don't even know high school mathematics

I'd rather have someone experienced who knows ReactJS and how to unit test over some dumb academic who just circlejerks over his knowledge of elementary calculus all day and can't actually do any real work.

>not a shit company
>it's a multinational company, one of the big ones
yeah these are exactly the places to go if you're looking to do shitty grunt work programming

>All right, so you say that in time, I'll eventually get promoted and they will be stuck to lower positions?

If you stay at your current employer, you might be lucky enough to be responsible for these idiots and manage them with some complete fucking bullshit like agile/scrum.

you have a degree, they don't. you have bigger job prospects. if you moved to America, your starting pay would be much higher and you won't have to degrade yourself to pajeet level positions.

>if a company is big that means it's employees must be the best
I guess that means the minimum wage workers at McDonald's and Walmart are the best chefs and salesmen on the planet.

for comp sci?
type theory, homotopy theory, group theory
basically grad level algebra

shitload of measure theory, game theory, chaos theory if you want to do prob/stats for AI/ML

I agree with this as well. I was just trying to say that knowing calculus or any other academic circlejerk does not increase the salary you'll get compared to a "normie webdev reeeee".

The pay is good, my colleagues are shit.
I think I'm gonna start my own business, after I've saved some cash. Just a few more months of this shit...

You don't need to be a programmer, you know that right? If you go to data mining or process optimization a considerable amount of people will haver masters/phds.

If you went to a prestigious college and only went away with "guess I know programming" you are the one to blame.
A degree is so much more than acquiring a skill.
You network with the top of the field, you study state of the art research, you contribute to the field scientifically, you learn different contexts of applying your field and you learn to communicate your knowledge to a broader audience than your peers.
If you don't learn these things or don't see how they benifit you, college was a waste on you.

It does if you actually use it for something like the ML meme. If you are working a braindead webdev job why should an employer pay you more for having knowledge that's not relevant to your job?

What should I do then?

Fuck that shit. I just want to be an actual engineer, that's what I studied for.

>calculus is "academic circlejerk"

you people are completely clueless.
calculus is retard-level plug and chug computational engineer crap.
I studied math/cs in my undergrad and I'm doing a double M.Sc. now working on functional programming language design and type inference systems (using category theory).

i find it absolutely hilarious that you bakas think knowing the derivative of some elementary function is "academic circlejerking" when you are the type of person who is too retarded even to write an induction proof of the correctness of an algorithm. You're the type of people who write dogshit O(n^4) implementations of inane problems.

Mediocre shitstains.

>True, but it pisses me off that I had to stay awake overnight many times so I could get things done in college and learn complex mathematics, and these guys just with their shit courses from bootcamps are getting into the market.

I don't really understand where this mentality comes from. I knew a guy who took introductory Java in college that was so pissed off when he got a job and they wanted him to do something in C# instead of Java. Said the exact same kind of things
>Why did I waste all that time learning Java if I'm not even going to use it?

Meanwhile I took the same classes he did, but treated it as education instead of job training. I'm using abstract concepts I learned, even if I'm not using Java, and I'm a little relieved I'm NOT using Java. It doesn't make me feel bitter and angry that I'm not sitting here calculating the volume of a sphere with integrals for the n-th time either. That was part of the education, I'm glad I learned it, but I understand that the real world isn't like academia at all. Not everything you learn in school is going to be used in whatever job you get, but school wasn't about getting a job in the first place. School was about getting a degree.

>an actual engineer, that's what I studied for
>an actual engineer
>CS

Realistically, you can consider yourself lucky if you don't end up maintaining heaps of crap which was written for an arbitary deadline with no QA.

You're getting it wrong. I got this job offered to me while I was still studying, I was recomended by a teacher. I made a lot of contacts in college and public speaking is something I do without a problem. College was good, the problem is that the demand is so big for this type of thing that even people that didnt go to college can survive in this environment.

As a technical interviewer, when I don't see a college I am already wary, especially of the bootcamp kiddos.

dipshit at the very least engineers need to take 3 levels of calc plus diff equations plus linear algebra and stats. You methfags somehow think we are illiterate in math. Sorry I didn't take some abstract pablo picasso level of math (you fags really do sound like 2deep4u arts types when it comes to math).

you went to college to get paid more and have a future of getting promoted.. I'm hoping that's the case and you aren't getting the same pay and position as code monkeys

> I dont wanna be one of them
> Complains in Sup Forums
> Does nothing to be "better than them"
if you are a soft dev then act like one, Linus wasn't crying over the internet about all the people who knew the same shit as him. He took something and worked like a REAL SOFT DEV.

The mentality comes from the fact that even though the input was more on my part than their part, the output was the same. We have the same job. It's frustrating to say the least.

Go through Spivak's Calculus and a discrete mathematics textbook. It will teach you how to read mathematics deliberately and think logically.

Regular calculus is "asshole" calculus. It's basically like learning the functions in a library. You hardly do any real proofs, and the focus is on giving brainlet engineers the ability to plug n play. But if you want to know how the functions in the library actually work, then you need to think differently and more deliberately about them.

There are idiots that don't really know it in the machine learning sector as well. It is just a meme after all. From my experience it's all just luck and negotiating that gets you a good position and wage.

Stick with it for a while, there's no point being salty about your colleagues not going to college. Experience counts for more than a degree, and you'll still be able to list your degree on a CV to impress the HR department in your next job.

I know calculus, induction, discrete mathematics, fourier processing, complexity and computational theory like anyone other person who went through a decent CS program. I don't think I'm superior to my coworkers for it because none of it is relevant to the fucking job I'm doing. Keep on focusing on your academic circlejerking though. I wonder how much research pays compared to my cushy code monkey job.

methfags going on about 2deep4u math.
NO REAL WORLD APPLICATIONS

The input was not related to the output at all though. Your input resulted in the output of a degree. Their input resulted in the output of some certificate or other. That's where the story ends.

The input to getting a job isn't your education. It's calling people, handing out resumes, researching positions, and doing interviews.

>I'm doing a double M.Sc. now working on functional programming language design and type inference systems (using category theory).


So ivory tower bullshit that will never see any actual use? (haskell pretty much)

That's nightmarish to say the least.

It's actually the foundation of the "real" world, but whatever, brainlet engineer. When you try to apply ideas of calculus in any context outside of arbitrary problems in your asshole calc textbook, you'll wish you had a deeper mathematical understanding.

But you'll never have to do that, because painting by numbers is your current skill level. Which is fine. We need janitors and foodservice employees in the world, after all, just as we need engineers.

>highest paying jobs in STEM are engineering
>compares engies to burger flippers and Sup Forums mods
Really makes you think. But hey enjoy your grant money and live it up as the welfare queens of STEM.

A web dev monkey in SF earns more than an electrical engineer in Texas.

Yeah but if you compare the value of my degree to their certification, you reach the conclusion that in order for both of us to have the same job, it's because both the cert and the degree have the same value. The difference is that to get a cert is easier than to get a degree, which is unfair.
E.g.: If you could plant a fruit that grows in one day and sells for 1$ a fruit, why would you plant a fruit that takes 10 days to grow, but sells also at 1$ a piece? Even though one takes longer, the value ends up the same.

>living in SF
cost of living user. Cali is also the last slave state in the Union (illegals working for nothing picking grapes off the vine for shit carlo rossi wine). I rather have a good conscious and live in a morally right state, thank you very much.

You are doing the equivalent of getting a law degree and working at McDonalds. No fucking shit why the fuck would you go through law school if you just wanted to work at McDonald's?

I don't think webdev ever required a college education. If a job demanded it it was an artificially inflated expectation.

SF is going to implode when the gullible VCs realise they've been spending millions on internet companies with almost no tangible assets and no viable business plan.

It's a requirement to weed out the idiots so they don't waste employee resources interviewing.

Here's another thing to consider.

5 years down the line not a single person will ask you about your degree, they'll be looking at what companies you worked for, what technologies you know and what projects you were involved in or managed.

So someone who landed a job without any education at all through connections can easily be in the same or even better position than you.

Also search the top students from your year on linkedin and see where they ended up. I bet there's some that ended up in famous software companies.

Soft dev, not webdev

I don't think OP has ever stepped foot in a university campus.

>5 years down the line not a single person will ask you about your degree, they'll be looking at what companies you worked for, what technologies you know and what projects you were involved in or managed.

Exactly this. This is why you need to go work at a non retarded company.

>you reach the conclusion that in order for both of us to have the same job, it's because both the cert and the degree have the same value

That's not how the real world works. You've been lied to and misled into believing degree = job and pay = degree level. The degree is almost totally worthless beyond being a very, VERY loose filter on your resume. You've been taught that education is a commodity to be traded for bread, and that's fundamentally wrong.

Think of it this way: You know 15 skills. The other guy knows 4 skills. The job you're applying for only really uses 3 skills. Based on RELEVANT skills alone, you and the other guy are worth the same for that job. Which is fine and fair.

>search the top students from your year on linkedin and see where they ended up. I bet there's some that ended up in famous software companies.

I am one of those that graduated top of class. I am working in a "famous software company". This is what I've been living with. It might just be my country though.

You guys are all retarded and still in Uni. You will not be getting 200-300k in San Fran. This is creme of the crop.

You can expect 100-120k, and this is only because of the cost of living.

Go back to studying c++ in linux using Vim you fucking retards.

infosys?

Which country?

I'm from Croatia and the very top students either all go for big multinational companies abroad (many of them to US offices) or to EU offices (zurich london oslo dublin etc) in companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft etc.

The other common route for them is to go further into academic careers

Why do you think that a "famous software company" must have the best employees? Does Walmart have the best salesmen?

I would rather make 65k in Georgia than 120k in California.

All right, that sound like a good explanation. Seems like I've gotta start looking for a better job them.

Also at my first job my mentor straight out told me he personally knows people who went on to get jobs at Google etc. with just a BSc degree (which is ridiculously easy to get in Croatia) and interesting projects or winning coding competitions etc.

Don't feel too bad about the education investment either. If you keep on with that illustration, you knowing 15 skills means you are more flexible than the guy who only knows 4 skills, and can apply to a wider range of jobs.

300k is what anyone at the "senior" level (which only takes around 5 years of experience) can get at any of the big companies like Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Amazon.

Nope
Southern Europe
See

If he's from a Jewropean country his degree personally cost him only his time, not any money.

Also my experience is that people who get into programming jobs through these boot camps are much more "focused" and they often lack the fundamentals that make it easier to pick up new skills and technologies.

>Southern Europe

Portugal? That's the only southern euro country I can think of that has a 800 euro median wage.

The thing is, I think that happened in the old days. Are opportunities like that still available these days? I don't see them.
Yeah, I see. Thanks for the wisdom user.

answer is simple to socialize.

It's not a walk in the park to get a job at any of those companies you listed.

You aren't a special snowflake. If you manage getting a job at any one of those for 300k. Send me an email with proof at

[email protected]

Yep. How do you know this shit?

>it's not a walk in the park to get a job at one of 4 companies that each have around 50k devs, or a multitude of other ones like Twitter/Netflix/LinkedIn that have around 10k devs

I'm going to college in hopes that I'll meet women and because I'm not the best at teaching myself stuff on my own. It's unnecessary for a job in the industry.

>kek
>going to college to meet women
If you're going to CS, good fucking luck finding quality puss

This feels like someone who went to college for an engineering degree complaining that he's working the same plumbing job that others who did apprenticeships and went to trade schools are doing.

You could have learned all the physics in the world, but that doesn't mean you should get paid more for laying pipe. It also doesn't mean you'd be any good at it either.

I'm the Crofag, my goal is to eventually leave this shithole because the wages are shit so I often check up the average wages for all EU countries to see where it might be nice to move to.

Opportunities for developers are everywhere.
Pick a field that you would love doing, find the companies that are doing this, study up on the hiring process and just apply.

women in STEM are really weird. Like autism matched with bad fashion sense and not so good hygiene. Basically /r9k/ but with pussys.

You think some front end code monkey for google's services gets paid 300k a year?

There's a shit ton of positions at each of those companies. Management pays the best, after that comes finance, then r&d, then the system devs that do all the real work on their backend, and then the front end monkeys and HR.

math/college is not needed in the real world programming applications

>Why the fuck did I go to college?
because you wanted to be rinsed of your sheckles and to become a (((corporate))) wageslave for the rest of your existance

That's what electives are for.
I am /r9k/ with a penis so...