/bsd/ - *BSD General Thread
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I'm not sure I can figure out what that picture is meant to show..
You forgot to link freebsd.org
Me neither
So, for something to talk about, have any of you made some interesting discoveries or tried some interesting things with one (or more) of the BSDs?
I've been throwing everything barring the kitching sink at HAMMER2, trying to make it crash and subsequently filing bug reports. So far I've only found one, so that's kind of promising. Still won't be putting production data on it for another few years at least, but I really don't like the idea of mono-culture by virtue of no competition because "everyone knows X is the best", so to me it's worth putting in a few hours a week.
Give me 5 good reasons to use BSD instead of GNU/Linux. Please no bullshit reasons like licensing.
No
There really isn't. The GNU part of GNU/Linux kicks BSD's scrawny ass.
Just try using BSD sed, and all its other """utilities""", and you'll know what I mean.
I suppose there could be something particularly good about the kernels of BSD distros, but I haven't heard any arguments to that effect yet.
ZFS, ports, Jackie Chan--egad! I fucked it up!
Not really any symbolism. Just Puffers being a superhero, fighting The Man and other random stuff. Presumably RAM is his kryptonite; as in, OpenBSD is light on memory. Also, Puffy likes Thinkpads, "Crapbook" and never uses wireless.
it's meant to show that OpenBSD has no drivers
Thanks, user.
OpenBSD with syspatch is pretty nice. Source patching was my biggest gripe using OBSD in production, and while it wasn't a huge problem to have a build box and rsync from there it was still a needless chore to patch.
So is it possible to join different wireless networks automatically depending on the circumstances the way that wpasupplicant does? Or do you do everything through a shell script or whatever?
what do you mean by "join"? like a bridge?
No idea. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Joining a wireless network.
Oh, for some reason I thought you meant bridging them. You mean like use an ethernet connection if wi-fi isn't available?
No, I mean like joining a wifi connection when it is available, like at startup.
I wish there were as much as driver support for FreeBSD as Linux.
Well, if you want a default connection you can use a hostname.if file on openbsd.
man.openbsd.org
Now, I understand that OpenBSD (which I've tried briefly) is based on NetBSD. I'm on FreeBSD at the moment because OpenBSD wouldn't correctly support connecting to wifi via USB tethering on my Android phone, but I'm amused that OpenBSD by default tries to install itself to over 10 partitions, while FreeBSD installs itself (in automatic mode) to two partitions (/ and swap).
I wondered if anyone could explain what differences there are between NetBSD and OpenBSD (I've noticed OpenBSD seems sort of popular, it was a while before I found out it was based on NetBSD).
>but I'm amused that OpenBSD by default tries to install itself to over 10 partitions, while FreeBSD installs itself (in automatic mode) to two partitions (/ and swap).
it's for security reasons
>but I'm amused that OpenBSD by default tries to install itself to over 10 partitions, while FreeBSD installs itself (in automatic mode) to two partitions (/ and swap).
idiot
NetBSD : portability :: OpenBSD : security :: FreeBSD : corporate cuckoldry
FreeBSD tries to target general desktop and server usage
>target general desktop
Try harder.
It has the best driver compat of any bsd... :^)
>Crapbook
What does crapbook refer to?
Probably the fact that OpenBSD doesn't really support contemporary hardware, so, like most of the free software world, they're relegated to decade old laptops and other outdated but sufficient hardware.
That's out of necessity, not a priority.
>FreeBSD tries to target general desktop
>outdated but sufficient
doesn't matter when the best are piloting & maintaining it
I knew you couldn't handle it, but I'm your guru, who has been teaching you the spiritual truth for incarnations, And I have found you Again, this time via the internet message board Sup Forums on the honourable Sup Forums website, and tell me my brother, soon to be my disciple, what is your home address and phone number, so I may contact you and conduct you further on your spiritual paths.
Your venerable guru, Delmand Mick FizzleSwap
Is *BSD as a desktop OS worse than GNU/Linux or is all the software and hardware like newer AMD/Nivida cards available on *BSD?
OpenBSD works best on intel hardware. FreeBSD has binary drivers from NVIDIA. Things like GNOME and KDE have much less focus on BSD but it's still there.
Thanks, I have a newer AMD card and FreeBSD has shitty support for AMD.
join the /tpg/ master race
Thinkpads aren't desktops, and I don't need a laptop.
Openbsd, because it's well designed, stable, secure and low on resources.
Development maybe slow on new CPU architectures but it runs fine as a server on the average x86_64
Thanks.
Not really. If you think BSD utils are bad, it shows you aren't very good at shell scripting.
OpenBSD and NetBSD split in 1995. They were only the same project for about two years. They're not related more than both being BSDs. Also, having tons of partitions never hurts, and can help. For example, I had some damage and it was confined to /var and not the whole drive.
>NetBSD : portability
Does NetBSD even have Clang as the default compiler yet? Agreed about FreeBSD though. The bugzilla is trash, compared to OpenBSD mailing lists. You report a bug and nothing happens unless you're Dell or Netflix. Sadly it's useful for the desktop since it has the only video card drivers. Closed-source hardware sucks.
Intel graphics are not video cards, they're integrated graphics.
>Probably the fact that OpenBSD doesn't really support contemporary hardware
OpenBSD supports my desktop, which I built in 2012, sans the video card.
>Is *BSD as a desktop OS worse than GNU/Linux
No.
>or is all the software and hardware like newer AMD/Nivida cards available on *BSD?
Also no. Nvidia closed-source is available in FreeBSD, and Nouveau will be available in a future NetBSD release. Sadly, proprietary hardware means incompatibility with most free OSes.
>FreeBSD has shitty support for AMD
AMD has shitty support for FreeBSD, actually. You can't blame an open-source project for a closed-source project's problems.
>Not really. If you think BSD utils are bad, it shows you aren't very good at shell scripting.
That much is true, why the fuck does true have a switch to behave as false?
>Does NetBSD even have Clang as the default compiler yet?
I like Clang but it supports fuck all for architectures.
>I like Clang but it supports fuck all for architectures.
I know. But it'd show the C code is portable, itself, if they got NetBSD to compile with both Clang and GCC on an architecture that both support.
>That much is true, why the fuck does true have a switch to behave as false?
On which true, on which OS? Confirmed for not being a thing on GNU/Linux or OpenBSD just now.
>>FreeBSD has shitty support for AMD
>AMD has shitty support for FreeBSD, actually. You can't blame an open-source project for a closed-source project's problems.
AMD isn't a "closed-source project", the amdgpu driver on Linux is best-in-class and fully libre. It's up there with i915.
Can you show me the blueprints of the video card? The blueprints of the silicon? AMD video cards are closed source.
>>Probably the fact that OpenBSD doesn't really support contemporary hardware
>OpenBSD supports my desktop, which I built in 2012, sans the video card.
I really meant it more in a general sense. In comparison to GNU/Linux or even other BSD's, it obviously doesn't have amazing driver support, but, again, it's more than adequate.
>>Is *BSD as a desktop OS worse than GNU/Linux
>No.
It's way too broad of an assertion to have a discussion, really. I mean, the BSD's are far more different to eachother than what are essentially all respins of the same operating system, GNU/Linux. I have no shame in saying that I use Slackware for my desktop. Whether we'd like it or not, GNU/Linux is just more relevant. Not really the fault of anyone; that's just how the cards fall. But my laptop runs OpenBSD, because I don't need all that software, and I have most of my fun playing around in my non-Lignux Unix servers, vm's, whatever.
Strictly in terms of firmware, doesn't AMD need microcode in order to run? Isn't that why some people favor older Nvidia products just for noveau?
What video card are you using? No GPU on the market offers open RTL-level schematics.
But the amdgpu driver does include register-level documentation and freely redistributable firmware, which is sufficient for FSF RYF certification.
That's the best qualification we've got available as an industry (until the RISC-V team pivots into GPUs perhaps)
>No GPU on the market offers open RTL-level schematics.
Correct. No GPU is open-source, and it's very saddening.
Reposting for visibility:
Does *BSD have better support on Apple hardware in comparison to Thinkpads?
I figured like Linux they would have better support on Thinkpads but the majority of *BSD devs/users I met use Macs and the like.
Only about 10% of them used Thinkpads.
What's the deal?
On the flip side only 10% of Linux users had Apple hardware.
I also live in a really tech rich part of the the country which alternative operating systems are almost a majority.
You must mostly meet FreeBSD users.
Can you elaborate?
I'm not too fimiliar with *BSD culture.
Does FreeBSD have better hardware support on Apple hardware then?
Even compared to Dragonfly/TrueOS/OpenBSD/NetBSD ect?
>Does *BSD have better support on Apple hardware in comparison to Thinkpads?
It really depends on the piece of hardware and the operating system. Thinkpads are really popular and thus have a lot of driver support, but that's not true for all models. Apple hardware is generally supported really well in the free software world (even better than MacOS) itself because, obviously, there's a lot less models to support, although apparently the efi is annoying to work around.
>I figured like Linux they would have better support on Thinkpads but the majority of *BSD devs/users I met use Macs and the like.
GNU/Linux has equally good Apple hardware support. And the only BSD developers whom you've met who like Apple products are the ones working on FreeBSD from a VM.
>Only about 10% of them used Thinkpads.
Because they don't care. And MacOS popular among both BSD and GNU/Linux devs, really. Some of them are outsiders, enterprise, not really invested in desktop. MacOS is a crappy piece of software in my opinion, but it is UNIX.
>I also live in a really tech rich part of the the country which alternative operating systems are almost a majority.
Like hell you do.
Lurk more. An example of the average FreeBSD dev:
youtube.com
Installs FreeBSD on a VM on her Mactop, bumps oh-my-zsh and Windowmaker
youtube.com
Lectures people about the purpose of her organization, and, well, the video speaks for itself.
fuck
GNU either changed it or I'm thinking of another program, because I know for a fact that a program did something retarded like that
there is literally nothing wrong with wmaker
FreeBSD devs generally use OS X and MacBooks, the rest are much more diverseThis
Friendly age.
Didn't FreeBSD once release a version that couldn't boot outside of a VM?
Why isn't there a WinBSD? I want my Windows applications like EXCEL.EXE and calc.exe on the power of BSD already!
You mean like the GNU subsystem? Or a compatibility layer like WINE. If the former, Bash on Windows, as the name entails, really only exists for the sake of a few GNU coreutils that overshadows Window's inferior counterparts. If the latter, well, you have WINE. And I'm pretty sure another compatibility layer that lets you use old Windows drivers with kFreeBSD.
Why are these such a nightmare on laptops?
OpenBSD
>Wireless works well, but can't install because it won't detect the sets on the usb stick for some reason
Any other BSD
>Won't support a Realtek card and suggests you compile one from a windows binary (seriously)
Install OpenBSD sets over the network, doing this configures /etc/installurl, which means you don't need to configure a mirror for pkg_add after installing
Fair enough, I'll give it a shot
Was my first choice for this laptop until it started spazzing out on the install
You're thinking of Project Evil (aka the NDISulator); lists.freebsd.org
You are a cool dude. Thanks.
pro tip: choose cloud mirrors (fastly.cdn.openbsd.org), they are probably the fastest on list
Can't think of anything like that. Utils don't deviate from POSIX that much and usually it's noted what isn't posix, many flags are different from GNU and as a rule there are just short flags. But lack of seq grinds my gears. There is jot to get sequential list but it behaves so differently.
1. You like tinkering
+ 2. You want a stable system
+ 3. You don't care about "bleeding edge" and "latest trends"
+ 4. You use old machine
+ 5. You are technicaly competent & techpatient
BSD is for you
The man pages are actually useful.
I'm a Linux user (Slackware particularly), and I'm curious about BSD. What I really want to know is how easy it will be to play games. I'm sure the system is competent enough to meet all my other needs, but I have just a hand full of steam games and I want to know if I'll be able to run them. I also have a GTX 10 series gpu, are these supported?
If you're thankful, why not do it yourself? DragonFlyBSD runs fine in a vm, and as points out the manpages contain everything you need to know. Just install on UFS and set up a seperate partition for HAMMER2, then throw everything you can think of at it (all kinds of real-life workloads, not benchmarks - benchmarks are useless for anything except preformance regression testing between individual versions of a piece of software).
Why the fuck did I quote myself.
Actually, benchmarking has 1 other purpose: Seeing how close you are to hardware constraints/finding hardware botlenecks (which is ultimately the same thing).
But somehow the internet has decided that it's super useful to compare widely disperate things with benchmark and whichever gets the highest score (which is usually within the margin of error when the sample size is actually scientifically valid) is the "winner" for a given value.
Sorry 'bout the rant, but people keep treating computing as if it's some religious war when it's actually a science.
openbsd.org
Back when I was twenty
They said I wouldn't last
All that I believed in
Were the teachings of the past
All I ever wanted
Was to keep the world secure
And all the criticizing
Was something I'd endure
The changes that I've been through
And the trials along the way
The battle isn't over
And I'm living day by day
But I'm still here
Some say that I'm a hero
But I'm just being me
With my filter I can hide
My true identity
One day when I was flying
Across the open skies
I saw the bridge to freedom
Had been weakened over time
The server room was burning up
And melting the array
A little breath of cold air
Was enough to save the day
CHORUS:
But I'm still here
Better than I've ever been before
I'm still free
Close a window, open up a door
I'm still me
INSTRUMENTAL
Now that I am older
And I've been around so long
The world is ever changing
I'm still righting all the wrong
CHORUS:
OpenBSD have prboom/prboom-plus, chocolate-doom, quakespasm, speeddreams, nethack, and a plethora of emulators... i don't need any other thing, lucky me i love those games
What does the future hold for the *BSD world?
Saturday #BAOT
BSD is cute
BSD is an operating system
I love BSD
BSD!!!
*Curious GNU/Linux user*
bsd bump
I just want to play terraria and csgo mate. Maybe some xonotic too. I'm tired of dealing with linux and all of its confusing non-standards and I want a unified system. Can it be done?
heh
Sadly xonotic is not in the ports tree, but there are a lot og games openports.se
what is the linux compatibility like? i heard there were wine-like layers but with a lot less abstraction because linux isnt retarded as windows
Feel free to ask questions if you can't find an answer to them via Google.
The linux compatilibity layer was disabled in openbsd for security reasons, infoworld.com
it wasn't just security reasons afaik, it was also the fact that no one ever used it and it was never updated (much like the freebsd one)
compatibility layers are a gay band-aid solution anyway
I might just do that since I heard hammer could be ported to openbsd
won't happen because of the license
Was planning on using FreeBSD anyway. What are the reports on this working with 3D games though? Sorry for the annoying questions, but google results are all old and conflicting with one another
Whats special about hammer fs that i will want it on openbsd in favor of the currently used ffs?
HAMMER2 aims to be enterprise class. Basically it's nothing special for personal use. I don't get why FreeBSD guys force the ZFS meme so hard.
Sadly can't help you because is something i didn't use, i think if is really so important to run software in other os'es, maybe you want to use qemu virtual machines, i'll prefer that personally to any compatibility layer.
>runs on shitload of architectures
>b-but it might not be portable tho...
cucks actually believe this
>meanwhile, let's enjoy getting cucked even further
DELET!
ZFS is unironically the future. Either that or something like it. It really is amazing. I maybe biased due to me love for solaris. ZFS, KVM, Zones, and DTrace master race.
Age.
Join the IRC.
>it wasn't just security reasons afaik, it was also the fact that no one ever used it and it was never updated (much like the freebsd one)
Very true.
>compatibility layers are a gay band-aid solution Incredibly true.