Was he really a bad person?

Was he really a bad person?

How does his "kill count" compare to the millions of lives he saved, and millions of other lives he improved?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Phases_of_the_plan_and_its_implementation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
nytimes.com/2014/11/07/world/europe/russia-putin-defends-soviet-nazi-pact.html
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

If he was alive today. We all will be watching anime and jerking off all day over here. Glorious

He didn't improve anything at all, and even in private he was quite despicable. Especially since his first wife died.

Are you mentally ill?

he saved you from nazi genocide
show some fucking respect

He ordered the rape of all german women.
I guess if you hate germans he was a good guy.

I know when his son failed to kill himself Stalin said "he can't even shoot straight"

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact

I'll bet that guy didn't even exist when the nazis did
Or stalin for that matter

if not for Stalin all Poles would have been genocided by facists

He killed your grandfather
Show some fucking respect

>inb4: Grandfather was not nazi
Does not really matter on which side you were

Was he really a bad person?

How does his "holocaust" compare to the millions of lives he saved, and millions of other lives he improved?

>Was he really a bad person?

Yes.

wtf, Hitler saved no lives
I dont get why white nationalists worship him, because he killed more white people than any other guy in history

>“Jews were responsible for bringing Negroes into the Rhineland, with the ultimate idea of bastardizing the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate.”
Reminder that hitler did literally nothing wrong.
Shame about poles getting fucked over in the process but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Because they're retarded, Hitler didn't give a shit about "whites" he cared about Germans and Germanics, he would have eventually done away with the meds and Slavs if he could and destroyed them as people b-b-but muh jews.

He saved them from commies

I don't know why people like stalin either when he killed more of his own people than the """enemy"""

by "saved", you mean killed?

he actually modernized the USSR and made it a superpower
not saying he's good, and I ain't no commie

What he did about modernizing the USSR?

>What he did about modernizing the USSR?

nuffin :^)

>What he did about modernizing the USSR?
Fast Industrialization?

>All nazis were going to kill anyone that wasn't blue eyed and blonde haired!!1!!

But Hitler admired Pilsudski

His security was so afraid of him that when they heard him dying they were afraid to go in because he said not to wake him.

He told his previous security to never go in his room without permission and then started screaming as if he was being attacked, once they came in he had them killed.

Nah he just wanted to "reduce" them and keeping the rest for toilet unclogging

>Was he really a bad person?
ask all your grandmothers and grandaunties, including the ones that did not survive their rape

He did the same as Hitler but with bigger force you fucking retarded Russian NEET fuck.

Stalin was even worse than Hitler.

OP is sidestepping all the discussion about rape.
Probably because he doesn't want to talk about it.
Really makes you think....

>Stalin was even worse than Hitler.
At least under Soviet rule YOUR nation was preserved, so I really don't understand how Polish and another Eastern Europeans can say something like that.

If there are someone for whom Stalin was really bad, then it will be the nations within Soviet Union, who suffered from his repressions the most.

Is Mao worse or Stalin!??!!?????!!!

>At least under Soviet rule YOUR nation was preserved
after your little plan to divide it failed, and after you raped it first then moved it 300kms west.

funny definition of preservation you have there.

lets preserve russia by squeezing all the juice out of it and hanging it on the wall!

As any other person he had it good and had it bad, but on much larger scale.
On mu opinion 70-80% of his deeds were positive, and I think of him positively.
Another important mention, he was supreme commander during most importand, massive and bloody war in our history. So, not to underestimate roles of other commanders and ten of millions men giving their lives, his role here was one of the key factors.

here goes polish meme

>At least under Soviet rule YOUR nation was preserved
The fuck you're talking about?
There were no nations under Soviets, just Soviet people.


I know your education is fucking shit, but at least try to educate yourself alone.

>meme
You stupid fuck.
Stalin killed more Poles than Hitler ever could imagine.

Gulags were worse than concentration camps.

>Stalin was even worse than Hitler.
wow you are delusional.
Hitler planned to kill off 85% of Poles
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Phases_of_the_plan_and_its_implementation

>he literally killed P*ussia once for all
>gave us 100km to Berlińsk and short border with ze germany

what not to like?

rape happend because of lack of discipline in soviet army, and not because of orders from above
its not fair to blame stalin personally for the rapes

>Stalin did nothing wrong.
>He only killed people to killsnipe Hitler.
>He didn't believe in genetics or computers, but at least he built some dams, that counts as progress, right?

Good thread.

>there are actual communists in this thread right now

>The fuck you're talking about?
>There were no nations under Soviets, just Soviet people.

Polish wasn't part of the Soviet Union. You spoke polish, you considered yourself polish, your nation exists nowadays. No nation within Soviet Union had the priveleges like that. And if Hitler would won your land would been just central part of Grossdeutschland and your nation would not exist. So yep, go educate yourself.

>after your little plan to divide it failed, and after you raped it first then moved it 300kms west.
>funny definition of preservation you have there.

Well, at least Poland had Eastern Germany's terrytories as a compensation. And you can't say Stalin's plan has failed, he actually annexed eastern Poland which is now western part of Ukraine and delayed beginning of the war for two years.

>Thank us for not bullying you more than we already did.

Sure guys, you are saints.

>surface area before ww2 388 634 km2
>surface area after ww2 312 679 km2

wtf why didnt he shoot her?

Not necessarily.
Regarding Poland specifically, German war memoirs such as v. Manstein's Lost Victories stated Hitler might have wanted to create a Polish satellite state from what became the General Government territory.

He was allegedly willing to allow Poland to exist if the Allied allowed him since the war against Poland was because of the Danzig Question and not because of Lebensraum (Which was the Soviet Question).

You can't say the Soviet Union was a kinder evil than the Third Reich. The Third Reich was basically just a nominee replacement for the Soviet Union.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

That fucking TV in the garden... pretty sure she was not the only black person that ran away in that situation...

Hey I made that thread in /his/

that wasn't the nigger hunting season yet

literally cities for some land...

i copied it here to get some cheap (you)'s

This is overblown communist propaganda to be honest.

You could dig up the same level of "official plans" to fully exterminate Germans and Hungarians... etc. from the Allies and Soviet "think-tanks".

Hitler wanted to bully and push Poles towards the East, Stalin did the same towards the West.

They are basically the same. Reckless people given too much power. This is why we should have implemented an Intermarum cooperation and set aside our differences before the war. A divided Butthurt Belt will always be bullied.

Russia saved Eastern Europe from genocide

Russia saved Eastern Europe from capitalism

Russia saved Eastern Europe from Western imperialism

Yet they have the gall to claim "oppression"?

Hitler literally wanted to reduce the Polish population by 90%

Nice reference.

Russians are truly delusional. No wonder why Putin can get so many cheap votes with bullshit propaganda even when the economy goes down the drain.

>Well, at least we let Poland live

thats mighty big of you ivan.

Reminder the Soviet Union once considered joining the Axis.

Reminder we had a chance to save Europe and we blew it.

gee, I wonder, whome should i trust, wikipedia or some random dude on the internet

>Implying Wikipedia wasn't made by random dudes on the internet

>stalin was even worse than hitler

It's time to stop posting

>Soviet Union once considered joining the Axis.
how is molotov-ribbentrop not actually joining?

putin even thinks it was a good idea:
nytimes.com/2014/11/07/world/europe/russia-putin-defends-soviet-nazi-pact.html

It didnt work out because Hitler was against communists for ideological reasons
he hated bolshewiks even more than jews

It's a lie though.

The communists and the allies made fake documents and had many similar, obviously later rejected plans that were destroyed later. Because that's how absolute governments work, they have extremist lobby groups coming up great revenge plans, but that wouldn't amount to anything in real life.

Hitler was after the Jews and the Gyps. Nowhere did they kill more Slavs or other native pop than the Russians.

In reality Hitler would push people towards the East, exterminate the resistance and round up "slaves" to use them for malenkij robot. It's all the same.

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was limited to a division of Europe between Germany and the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union actually joining the Axis into a Quadripartite Pact would mean the SU is given far more influence over Eastern Europe, and access to warm water ports in the Baltics and Black Sea.

While both the Nationalist Socialists and Bolsheviks were showing good faith between each other (Molotov, Schnurre, v. Ribbentrop, and even Stalin himself), Hitler saw the increasing Soviet demands as a threat to the Reich.

Hitler just had to agree and Europe would have been great again.

>All the Butthurt belt flock to the thread
Like a clock

It's time to learn some real history, you stupid fatfuck nigger

Was it true you Americanos wanted to invade Mother Spain just because

>great again

Europe would be a better place and WW2 would have never happened if the Allies would have paid attention to the needs of Mitteleuropa Intermarum nations.

Like make reasonable concessions from Czechslovakia, Yugoslavia and Romania towards Poland, Hungary and Bulgaria, transfer ethnic clay and make a stronger block.

And make actual invasion plans to help out, help the rearmament of these nations, make international and supernational military cooperation, like the NATO later and ensure peace. Hungary was disarmed, Czechoslovakia had great arms productions, Skoda factories but were givern no guarantees from either the West or even Poland.

The whole bunch would've been easily a stronger military faction than Germany on her own without access to Hungarian or Romanian oil and the Czech and Slovak industrial capacity.

None of the horrors would have happened if the leaders here and there would have been competent.

Conspiracy theories, poorly reasoned guesses (key words "might be")... And these guys call Russians "delusional".

Still, I have to ask, what was with Interwar Poland?

Intermarum and all of sudden it's occupying Zaolzie. Was Poland very slowly aligning itself to the Axis?

Stalin did the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact because France and UK didn't want to make a anti Fascist pact.
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

he is faggot at least cuz he didn't completely destroy germany. he was cruel only to russians

>So what went wrong in the USSR?
tl;dr: revisionism.

1) After WWII was over, new generation of Marxists was partially wiped out (cue losses of Communist party members on the frontline).
2) On the other hand, Party was overrun by people with rudimentary understanding of Marxism (cue sources of immense amount of new members joining during WWII).
3) Post-war Bolsheviks could not present unified front and educate new people in Marxism (cue long explanation of why populists won).
4) Bureaucrats came to power and (effectively) begun transition to Capitalism. Due to built-in legal defences against this, it took 30 years and several coups to accomplish (cue long long list of shit that happened)
5) Since Capitalism doesn't actually work, Soviets were getting less and less efficient as time went on.
>How come areas, like Poland were exceptionally more poor than others?
Poland wasn't part of USSR, for starters. It was semi-independent nation ruled by their own elites. Like right now with EU/NATO. Except Communist politicians are in charge, not Liberal (Euro-Liberal, not US-Liberal, if that's not obvious). Some nations had politicians with brains, some nations didn't (Hungary went full retard, for example).
Additional factors:
1) Poland was never particularly rich (same for Hungary/Romania/Bulgaria)
2) WWII destroyed quite a lot
3) Poland went Communist kinda late and didn't get the full industrialization course under Stalinist economists, instead they've got revisionist (and politically correct) version from Khruschev-Brezhnev.

France and the UK refused the Soviet suggestion because they also refused to grant the Soviets any further influence over Eastern and Central Europe.

Other than that, the Soviet Union was in no position to wage an offensive war after the Great Purge and especially not after the Winter War.

Yeah, because Hitler made the Holocaust public, right?

People tend to forget that we know so much about the Axis crimes because we actually lost the war and Allies were free to dig up everything. And also to forge things if necessary.

Do you think if Hitler won the media wouldn't be filled with the horrors of the Soviets? Do you think he would've made his genocides public? Do you think all the people in the camps would come forward and tell about their work?

You people are absolutely delusional. Just look at the fucking Russkis. We have documented revenge cullings, extermination orders towards whole towns, villages. Ghost villages litter the whole Eastern Europe, where someone shot from the attic and they ordered the extermination of everyone there.

And yet they are still denying everything.

Do you think it'd be different with the Nazi Germany? Both of them used the same methods to leave as little evidence behind as possible. And the Russkis didn't even bother with administrating their crimes.

That's basically how I speculate the long-term aftermath of a German victory.

It would last several decades, and collapse due to its own internal instability. The states would all break up, and the newly formed Germany would get bombarded with "muh genocide".

The Third Reich would simply replace the USSR.

>Was he really a bad person?
Yes

>Implying that 1million troops wouldn't help.

see

>he hated bolshewiks even more than jews
but bolsheviks are jews

or at least were before stalin killed most of them

>t. Brazilian economist

>>Implying that 1million troops wouldn't help.
1 million men couldn't invade a totally irrelevant snow country with 300k men and a few tanks.

Do you really think they'd be able to cross the Vistula, especially when France and the UK refused to make solid moves and when the German armies weren't withered down yet?

(Then again, it would have been a great opportunity for France and the UK to have the two other evils kill each other).

Yes. A shitty human being, a shitty politician too. He only gets glorified because of "Muh WW2 saviour" even though what he did actually made Russia weaker and it was through competence of others that Russia isn't speaking kraut today.

SO?
Did you even read?
tl;dr version:
Basically, Khruschev decentralized Soviet economy (). I.e. it was no longer actually planned economy. It was simply run by bureaucrats.
Politicized Science. Actual Lysenko clusterfuck happened only during Khruschev's reign and was part of … wait for it … destalinization campaign. While 1948 is claimed as the time when Soviets "outlawed genetics", it was more of a series of budget cuts to some areas, while increased support of other - also genetic - research initiatives ("repressions" were limited to half a dozen people and even then had more to do politics than science). It was 1955 ("letter of 300") when Lysenko finally got his carte blanche due to personal Khruschev's intervention; when Lysenko was forced to retire in 1961, Khruschev intervened again and put Lysenko back; only in 1965, when Khruschev was no longer in chage, Lysenko was deposed for good). This also led to crippling of Soviet electronics (that was finished by Brezhnev).
Nationalised ~6% of Soviet economy (non-state industrial co-ops, not just minor businesses; if you had enough workers and persuaded local representative of central bank to give you a loan, you could've organized big factory). No refunds, no nothing, despite co-ops clearly being workers' property.
Crippled kolkhozs financially, by forcing them to take huge loans to privatize pieces (no-one could've afforded to buy them whole) of state agencies (MTS) that provided tractors and other expensive agrotech for anyone.

Cont.
That also led to major drop of efficiency of agrotech use.
As for Stalin - that's no minor thing. Khruschev completely destroyed credibility of USSR and split Second World in Second and Third Worlds. This bullshit about hundred gorillion executed/gulaged? It begun not with Goebbels (nobody actually believed him), but with Khruschev's antistalinist campaign. Stalinism itself was outlawed in USSR until the 90s (last case of people being sent to prison for it was in 1989, IIRC). This also led to Soviet Marxism being turned into a dogma, actual Marxist discourse being effectively forbidden on the grounds of "this might lead to Stalinism".
There is a reason why post-Stalinist USSR is often considered non-Socialist. Though, I must say it's not completely true: it took 30 years for bureacrats to be completely reborn as capitalists. Basis doesn't change superstructure in a heartbeat, after all.

Why is this thread attracting eastern european scum so much?

>implying there's anyone better than Putin in Russian politics

Thats not the point also.
People like to think that Stalin allied Hitler just for the lolz, and don't reallise that even in Mein Kampf Hitler outline that he wanted to conquer the USSR and the Slavs(slaves).

not even gonna read this thread
I already know which flags are going to post and what

>P*tin
>good

Like I said, Stalin was fully aware of Hitler's strong anti-Bolshevism, but both the German and Soviet governments were willing to maintain peace and negotiate with each other- thus the existence of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and even the Soviet Union's consideration in joining the Axis.

Whether it was because neither side wanted to go to war or because they wanted to prepare for it, we'll never know.

Regarding the possible Soviet Anti-Fascist Pact, it wasn't merely a mutual defence against the Fascists. The Soviet Union asked for influence over Eastern Europe in exchange for a guarantee for removal of fascists.

You can't exactly say the Soviet Union had purely good intentions.

Hitle wanted go to war, Stalin knew this and needed time to prepare to the Germans, and the allies wanted Hitler to destroy the USSR and prefered to give Checoslovaquia to Hitler than to form an alliance with Stalin, but that back fired in the end.

WW2 literally wouldn't have happened if Brits and Frenchies weren't so pussified by WW1 and told Hitler to go fuck himself in Munich. But MUH PEACE IN EUROPE. Czechoslovakia was ready to go and bleed the Germans for every kilometer. But the whole "Give up, we won't support you if you fight and you'll be causing the war" discouraged our politicians.

This, see.
>telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

>Since Capitalism doesn't actually work

>Implying it works
Ayy lmao

"Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions. It is only under the shelter of the civil magistrate that the owner of that valuable property, which is acquired by the labour of many years, or perhaps of many successive generations, can sleep a single night in security. He is at all times surrounded by unknown enemies, whom, though he never provoked, he can never appease, and from whose injustice he can be protected only by the powerful arm of the civil magistrate continually held up to chastise it. The acquisition of valuable and extensive property, therefore, necessarily requires the establishment of civil government. Where there is no property, or at least none that exceeds the value of two or three days' labour, civil government is not so necessary."
-Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

TIT

It worked here bretty great

Holodomor