What is fundamentally wrong with "it just werks"? Not everyone wants to spend dozens of hours getting something to run

What is fundamentally wrong with "it just werks"? Not everyone wants to spend dozens of hours getting something to run.

because what "it works" entails is usually collecting and selling personal data. it does a lot of things out of the box, yes. but most of them you don't want. plus there is a HUGE problem with people who use technology they don't understand. like the grandparent with 3/4 of a browser that is toolbars and emojis.

Don't need to understand how a modern car works to drive to work everyday.

yes you do.
this is the worst possible example you could have picked.

do you have brain damage? are you retarded?

It only ever does for people with next to no needs as conpared to what is technically possible to begin with

Granted it'd not be wrong to provide THE one thing to do as an extremely simplified computer to that audience as such.

But then you see how companies in reality will know they are dealing with mainly very lazy idiots rather than people with exact needs and they do an extremely expensive, privacy invasive job of it because they can.
Would be to their detriment not to make use of that degree of laziness, stupidity and ignorance really.

>required to know the inner workings of a combustion engine to drive to work
Do you live in some third world country where you can't just turn the key and put your foot on the required pedals? Just werks until you need it fixed by a mechanic.

So what you're saying is that it doesn't "just work" but that you're simply delegating the lot of work that is complex to someone else?

All right, but in the end that someone else needs to be relatively easily capable of doing *a lot more* maintenance, diagnostics and spare parts replacing than you or it'll cost you.
Ideally they can also just customize / change parts or tweak some configurables out of many that something else can now "just work" for you.

And not everyone has needs as simple as you to begin with. Ultimately our society runs and produces on what's technically possible, NOT on the most simplified variant of it all.
Simple parts in some instances perhaps, but the working combination is complex.

It just werks their way.

Because sometimes it don't.

It suits most, but the problem with something "Just working" is there is no way to get it working, it "Just works".
Now, something "Just working" doesn't mean it won't stop working, all it means is that when it does work, it just works, you don't need to do anything to get it to work.

Now, if it stops working, what can you do? There is no procedure to get it to work, other than expecting it to work and it working. So then you're fucked.
Memory fucked? Need data? Well, other than it "Just working", you can't make something that doesn't work work again, so all gone.
Don't conflate "Just works" with "Always works", they're two different things.
A linux install I spend 20 minutes on when I first set it up certainly didn't "Just work", but it has been 100% reliable without faults since, hence the two year uptime. Even then, if anything goes wrong, literally anything is fixable.
An iPhone may "Just work" out of the box, but it will crash more often, and when something seriously bad happens, you're totally fucked.

Now, it's not a rule that things that just work aren't reliable, and things you have to set up are, some require setup and are still unreliable (windows), and there's no reason something can't just work AND be reliable, it's just that nothing now is both (And still, something nearly perfect but fails once in a non-recoverable way is as good as shit to me)

autism.

You sure showed him

because it just works until it does't
It just works until you want to make something different than what you're suppoised too, and then suddenly a linux distro works way better

>Linux
>reliable
lol no. I used to think that way until I needed to open a flash drive and copy a file for someone else, it was just not working, for some reason Ubuntu didn't wanted to mount drives anymore. After resetting 3 times and trying to force mount by terminal I just got fed up of it and decided to try on another Windows PC around. Guess what? It just worked. And the most strange thing is that when I got home with said flash drive it worked. That day was the day I decided to dual boot, but I had other problems before with connecting the laptop to a TV and not being able to set the resolution to anything over 640x480.

All of those things can be fixed. On the other hand, they all work on my machine.

>On the other hand, they all work on my machine.
FOSS community in a nutshell.

>So what you're saying is that it doesn't "just work" but that you're simply delegating the lot of work that is complex to someone else?
Yes. How is this even a question? It's the core principle of how an industrial civilization operates.

Which Linux filesystem did you use that wouldn't mount under Linux but would under Windows?

You mean the flash drive? It was probably fat32.

As other Anons have said, if something breaks, you don't know how to fix it (and usually can't).
If you got it to work yourself, however, you know how. Memes aside, Arch made me appreciate this aspect.
There is nothing inherently wrong with stuff that "just works" as long as you actually know what is going on under the hood. You don't have to know every single tiny detail, but a general understanding is IMHO necessary.
You'd be amazed at how little normies actually know about computers.

fat32 just werks on nearly any platform and device from the last 20 years though

Then nothing "just works".

Exactly.

But then all you need to worry about is that the thing in question is versatile and maintainable and powerful enough that one of many person(s) of your choice can do the things they need to do, according to your wishes.

'cause the only thing that can fuck you over easily is if something ISN'T versatile enough or you otherwise can't choose somewhat freely who does maintenance or adaptations.

That's what I expected when I tried to mount it, but for some reason Ubuntu decided it should not work.

Autists get angry when a simple task that takes 10 hours to configure on their hobby OS can be done with a simple click on a real system

user, oh user.
You where plugging in a flash drive, crossing your fingers, and hoping it'd "Just mount lol"
Given you eventually used the terminal, AFTER THREE RESTARTS, something tells me you hadn't done that before, so you probably fucked something up.
Eventually you gave up and used something else.
Thanks for proving my point. Systems that just work are great, untill they don't work, then you're stuck restarting and hoping for the best
(By the way, it's mount /dev/sdb1 /media/)

But when your "real system" doesn't behave as expected you're fucked, while autists know how to recover.
And if you tell me that it "always behaves as expected" you're either full of shit or have never used computers for serious work.

>So what you're saying is that it doesn't "just work" but that you're simply delegating the lot of work that is complex to someone else?
It's about choice in this regard.
I don't need to be a gearhead to simply use my car.
If i want to learn about my car, tweak it till it's part of the same model on the barest of technicalities, or just drive it to the supermarket, it should be an option.
If something goes wrong, i should be able to get my hands dirty, or just delegate it to some random mechanic.

One shouldn't be practically forced to learn the internal workings of the car's "architecture" just to use it, and have to whip out the car's manuals twice a month because the electric wiring is fucking retarded, and any complaining about this being met with people thinking you're ungrateful, and should design your own fucking electrical wiring if you believe the half-baked lighting sucks, or go full on "go back to your commercial Toyota Corolla if you don't like it, you dumb faggot."

Because yeah, a lot of people are gonna go get some Corollas that just werk for everyday use in that case.

I'm going to borrow from alienwares philosophy on this one.

They follow the "it just works" ideal because that's what they're being paid for. They're being paid more money than what the machine costs by itself for the support of getting it all set up and working out of the box. The ceo came out and said that of course it's cheaper doing it yourself. That's not what you're paying for.....

The difference between alienware and apple however, is alienware gives you the right to change your computer later. You can swap out parts, fuck with it and do whatever you desire because it's yours.

Apple on the other hand, gives a bit fat "fuck you" if you try to do anything.

That's the difference. There's nothing wrong with "it just works", there's something wrong with "you don't own the rights to what you've paid for".

Because I cant change how it works.

If the way it works is no longer what I need I have to just throw it away and buy a new thing that just werks towards my new needs.

Whats the point of having a multi-purpose tool that just works if as soon as I want to do something SLIGHTLY outside the 4 things its used to it doesnt work?

It would be like designing a flat head screwdriver that didnt work on philips heads. WHY? INCASE I GET CONFUSED? IF I WANT TO HAMMER A SCREW LET ME DO IT. A tool that cant be used as I see fit is not a tool. Its an ornament.

I dont have time to tinker with my device. I want to call, sms, and whatever other feature they advertise. If it doesnt have that feature I look for another device which has it. If nothing has it, I move on. Only if its very important for me I spend time and effort to tinker and build that feature.

And guess what, never in my life was I in situation when someone didnt offer a feature ready-made AND I really wanted that feature.

/thread

>That's the difference. There's nothing wrong with "it just works", there's something wrong with "you don't own the rights to what you've paid for".
/thread

It's been a looong time since someone "/thread"ed me. Thanks user =3

Nothing. I'm not an autist, I just want reliable stuff that I don't have to fuck with. I'm not going to install random rooms or Linux, my time is worth more than that.

Everyday I work to make sure the company I work for product just fucking works, because people don't have time to mess around with it.

But how can I be smug then if I don't spend thousands of hours making my computer even basic stuff?

Sup Forums hates things that just werk because it doesnt make them feel special for knowing how to make things work
autism essentially

>What is fundamentally wrong with "it just werks"?
It's for people who pride themselves in their laziness and ignorance.
You pay a lot of money for a black box that does a bunch of things you want and a lot of things you don't, some of those things can even be harmful.
Of course, if you chose to be a consumerist whore I won't judge you.

If you need thousands of hours making your computer do basic stuff you're a brainlet.
You don't even need that much work with things that don't "just work".

But user, that's exactly why programmers use Linux.

>One shouldn't be practically forced to learn the internal workings of the car's "architecture" just to use it
Fortunately, you aren't. Same applies to OS'.

It's only the most superficial details that you need to know to operate a gazillion lines of code and a piece of hardware so complex it exceeds what all of mankind operated in 1900.

OTOH someone -your hired expert?- will have to deal with the hardware and software at some level some times anyhow, and variants may be desired particularly because there really is a lot going on... so yea, don't bother with Apple, they're not interested in allowing any of this for you or your desired expert. It's them at ridiculous conditions in their monopolistic position (and even then they'll basically do nothing for you before you put down millions of dollars - you can get the stock thing they offer at a high price, done).

Nah, that's just every single Linux distro. And I know how to fix these things but I don't expected somebody who doesn't understand the inner workings of computer to be able to do the same. There is a reason why is Linux such a failure on desktop.

Also taking hyperbole literally is a sign of autism.

it doesn't just work

There's no problem with "it just works" if it actually did "just work".

> There is a reason why is Linux such a failure on desktop.
Why single out Linux? It's everything but Android by your standards.

That's the only thing people who don't understand shit can operate well enough, and it shows by user time and device share. Android > Everything.

Now I question if we really should bother to worship the lowest common denominator as Sup Forumsentoomen, but if anything, it'd surely be Android.

Personal computing is just utterly dominated by Android.

Everything falls apart when it doesn't work, because you don't know how to fix it.

Did everything even work like you defined it should work in the first place?

Because Apples sure as hell don't, they just convince people these overpriced rigid toys are state of the art and the best posdible, upon which a lot of easily manipulated people accept this for a fact and adapt their habits and expectations instead.

I guess I just need to use thus crazy time capsule thing, huh. I guess I just need to deal with a single usb port by getting hubs and wireless devices now, huh I guess itunes and a supported device is the only convenient way to get music files from to a player or phobe, huh. I guess this just works if I buy more stuff and change my habits and learn to deal with it, huh...

Linux is bad

This

Your a retard.

>What is fundamentally wrong with "it just werks"?
It doesn't just work

The joke isn't that things that just work are bad, the joke is that most things people claim "just work" don't work at all and are generally shitty.

"Just works" usually entails charging you out the ass for something you could do yourself. Also it means things are simplified so that the average tard, meaning you can't do what needs to be done.

I don't miss having to reboot my phone every other day when the camera or microphone stops working. IPhone ftw.

>What is fundamentally wrong with "it just werks"?
Nothing. People ridicule it because everything "just werks", whereas applel tries to sell it as something they do uniquely. In other words, it's a retarded empty marketing phrase that normies fall for.