For users coddled by "settings GUIs" and "intelligent/automagic defaults" such as one coming from current-gen GNOME on current-gen Fedora (F+G), recommend a WAYLAND window manager that's actually smooth, comfy and manages to figure-out-dumb-stuff on its own.
Just tried Sway: >cannot deal with Retina/HiDPI displays like my F+G could out-of-box. You *can* configure it to scale but it's not font-scaling, it's FHD fullscreen-bitmap up-scaling and hence blurry. Cursor sizes all over the place from too tiny to humongous. >even my freaking TTYs knows about my non-US keyboard layout but Sway cannot be assed?! >if you detect a touchpad, maybe you should enable tap by default man! oh you chose not to even bother detecting it? How suckful.
Number 1 and 2 are quite the dealbreakers, do these devs still work on their vintage Thinkpads or what?
Why are you blaming the WM for all that? At least for the later two that's all Waylands job (or your job to configure it right)
Bentley Jenkins
this
Aaron Clark
The WM has to implement Wayland. It's just a protocol, not software.
Aiden Nelson
If my TTYs and GNOME-on-Wayland can figure out the layout of the ONLY keyboard that will ever exist on my laptop.. then your homebrew WM Better. Keep. Up.
Generally, anything stupid a GNOME can figure out, any WM to be competetive should as a first order of business.
Michael Collins
Fuck off with that bloated and insecure piece of shit
Hunter Ortiz
This.
Grayson King
kdrive is smaller than any comparable Wayland system
Adrian Howard
Plasma is pretty neat on wayland
Carter Hughes
Well so is GNOME. But I'm looking for a TilingWM!
Hudson Reyes
>Wayland >WM The proper Wayland term is "compositor".
Brandon Jackson
OK a "tiling compositor" then, *fine*. Any recommendations?
Jackson Brown
There's none worth using. Do you have any problems with X that you want so desperately to use wayland?
William Jones
Wayland sucks and nvidia doesn't care about xwayland support
Alexander Cooper
fuck off gnome troll
Parker Lopez
X11 Wayland isn't ready in my opinion. Maybe in 5 years when people get their shit together.
Lincoln Cruz
All I noticed is that Gnome works both via Wayland (the default Gnome in Fedora) and "via Xorg" --- but i3 didn't and from the error messages it can't figure out how to X on my system. Now sway, the i3 clone for Wayland, "works" but semi-sucks as per OP. I conclude that I need a WM for Wayland and can skip trying out the X ones. I'm just amazed how the oh-so-hated "bloated" mainstream ones (gnome, kde, etc) manage to *actually* "just-werk indeed".. in comparison, that is. But given that >There's none worth using. I'll just stick with what actually works then.
Noah Jackson
Looks like it. Impressive the speed of FLOSS! I observe it's already been 5 years since i3 was first asked about Wayland compat/support and they comfily brushed the whole notion aside as not-relevant-to-them repeatedly. Ah well, fair game
Wyatt Gonzalez
Tiling plugins for plasma? They work fine.
Ethan Lewis
Wayland was very much designed with Gnome and similar in mind.
Gabriel Young
i3 is a Window Manager. It can't support Wayland. The concept of a WM does not exist in Wayland.
Not to mention the whole thing directly uses xcb. A wayland version would mean rewriting the whole thing.
Austin Green
Nobody cares what you use.
Jeremiah Lewis
You really have no idea how any of that works. Wayland is a completely different stack and works differently. For example, there's no central server (like Xorg in X11) but every compositor (e.g. Sway) has to implement all the features it wants to support. That's why Sway doesn't have some basic features like keyboard layouts, even though Gnome has them, and every WM has them under X because they are implemented in the server. So far the solution for reinventing the wheel has been libraries that compositors use to get some base features, and right now Sway is doing a switch from wlc to wlroots in order to solve some problems and get new features.
Brandon Lopez
why even bother with switching from X?
Juan Fisher
maybe more than 5. We still don't have the basic tools we grew to love surrounding X. Because the model is different, we are going to have a much more fragmentation between desktops and it will take a long time to recover. Wayland is way more disruptive than the switch to systemd.
Nolan Gonzalez
This. code doesnt have an expiration date like its a loaf of bread.
Parker Bell
Because it makes gedit 5% faster!
Noah Diaz
>That's why Sway doesn't have some basic features like keyboard layouts, even though Gnome has them What bugs me isn't that Gnome has them, but that even the *friggin TTYs* manage to remember which keyboard layout I specified during the OS setup process!
That being said, appreciate the explanations and will check back on Sway in another couple months then, or whenever their wlroots transition is done
Nolan Bell
The virtual consoles handle keyboard layouts in a different way that hasn't changed for decades.
Gabriel Morgan
It sure looks like it! 'Different' as in, "their way works as expected"
Jace Hill
Wayland is not a framework or a set of libraries. It's a protocol that eliminates Xserver from screen rendering and input handling.
People who develop a Wayland compositor basically have to implement their own variant of X11 from scratch, adhering to certain protocols. It's insane amount of work. That's why only GNOME fully supports it right now.
There's really no place for small custom WMs in Wayland world. Even LXDE/LXQt is working on integrating with KDE because of Wayland.
Oliver Collins
They don't work on Wayland. They will soon though.
Kevin Hernandez
Source? I've been sitting on a broken custom script for ages now.
Jason Allen
I've made a tiling script for KWin and submitted an issue about it. KWin scripting API won't detect new clients on Wayland because of something security related. They have a fix pending for a future release though.
Brody Campbell
Windows Explorer duh
Juan Ward
It's pretty easy to run X as a normal user instead of root.
Austin Foster
Wayland isn't ready yet. Wait another 20 years.
Jaxon Evans
Not to mention that when it will be ready, it will be instantly declared deprecated and poorly designed, because we will have AR monitors or some other shit by that point, and that we will need to start from scratch again.
Not everyone has switched to pulseaudio yet but it's already marked as deprecated because of Wayland.
Caleb Harris
What does PulseAudio have to do with Wayland?
Austin Butler
They're designing a different audio/video pipeline for Wayland called pingas^Wpinos^Wpipewire, look it up. Main argument is that it might be problematic to always keep audio in sync with video on Wayland.
Levi Lee
>because we will have AR monitors or some other shit by that point, and that we will need to start from scratch again. Actually I think Wayland already has provisions for multi-dimensional "displays". Or was it Mir?