Is vanilla Arch really the way to go?

>will use revenge installer if you convince me
>moderately experienced, 2 years of linux now

I'm really fed up with RPM and even though openSUSE incorporates it's own package manager the distro is so fucking bloated (fucking 4gb iso)

Debian based distros are fine but nearly always have non up to date packages

Slackware, Gentoo, Void, ect. packages all randomly break (more often than other distros at least) for seemingly no fucking reason (in my personal experience)

I have questions about Arch
1. Will I have to edit some random text file to install an application? (*cough* slackware *cough*)
2. I know "instability" on Arch is mostly a meme at this point but seriously, how often does stuff REALLY break (be honest)
3. Do programs dependent on multiple dependencies break often? (I know it'll EVENTUALLY happen at some point)

Send help (posted from debian)

Other urls found in this thread:

wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_from_existing_Linux#Creating_the_chroot
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernels
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Portage/Tools
wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Manjaro_Kernels
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

You usually need to edit configs to customize your software. Not so much to install it.

The last breakage I had on Arch was trying to install shit drivers for Nvidia graphics on a 2006 Dell laptop.

What do you mean by multiple dependencies here? I've never had this.

Fucking thank you

I can't tell you how much I want to meet you in real life and give you a blowjob right now, thank you user

(i know about configuring things like IceWM using text editor, so i'll be good mostly?)

Arch is a retarded mix that gives you the worst of both worlds. It is just as bad as all the other broken distros you just named.
All its talk of "minimalism" is just excuses that make the lives of lazy devs and maintainers easier. It's still bloated as fuck and sitting on top of layers of cruft and insecure code (see systemAIDS)
You're just left with an impression of simplicity because you had to edit a bunch of config files manually during the install (hackerman!)

If you're tired of broken-by-design shit (essentially every Linux distro) just install OpenBSD already

*sigh*
I don't know what to believe now

Also, I like that the BSD kernel isn't controlled by a (i'm going to be blatant here) completely braindead fuckwit of euro nigger.

But software...can you install Krita on BSD distros? (linux software in general)

1. Nope
2. I've used it for more than a year and the only thing I've had break was a really nieche package from the aur that got fixed 4 hours later.

I'm always cautious when taking advice from the arch community because (no offense to you personally) most of them use it to act "cool"

I've also heard some xorg breakage, you've never had something randomly stop randomly working and have to edit a config file to fix it?

The Xorg issues were about four or five years ago. It was a thing, but hasn't really been a distro specific issue for a long time.

>1. Will I have to edit some random text file to install an application? (*cough* slackware *cough*)
no
>2. I know "instability" on Arch is mostly a meme at this point but seriously, how often does stuff REALLY break (be honest)
sometimes
>3. Do programs dependent on multiple dependencies break often? (I know it'll EVENTUALLY happen at some point)
no

Arch is quite nice but it's quite uncomfortable to use it with custom kernel, also sytemd is shit. Gentoo is much better from this point of view, however it lacks lot's of modern packages that are available in aur and new packages that appear in it almost immediately. I've used linux for quite a long time and the best system I came to is gentoo with arch in chroot environment. Try that.

If you want to give it a shot, go for it.

You use text commands to install Arch, follow the wiki and it will tell you just what to do.

I enjoy using arch because it wasn't too technical for me, but I learned more about Linux and how a good Linux system works in a week then I did using Ubuntu on and off for 6 years.

Thanks for the helpful advice, user.

Guess I'll see how things go after installing it in virtualbox

>I know "instability" on Arch is mostly a meme at this point
It's not
>but seriously, how often does stuff REALLY break
It's not about how often, it's about how random
The answer is: anything, anytime, anywhere

For 6 month cycle distros breakage occurs every 6 months and current breakage isn't fixed in time and after 6 months new breakage and bloat piles on top of it

Use Debian Stable, it's the only sane distro at this point.
Mild breakage occurs about every 2 years when you decide to upgrade but there are release notes and you can plan ahead to minimize or eliminate it

i've just stopped caring about systemd, i've never had any errors with it

i have heard that if it DOES break it's a huge pain in the ass to fix

Arch is the first distro where I've stopped thinking about the "distro" thing at all. I just think in package terms now.

>this is shit
>this thing sucks
>this is okay

>how often does stuff REALLY break (be honest)
After nearly a year of use on my desktop I've only had a few AUR packages fail to compile/install requiring manual intervention to fix like xboxdrv.
Depends on what you have installed, i3+XFCE goodies on top has been rock solid for me. Huge pain in the ass to configure for the first time though.
Been doing it again recently messing with a 2in1 yoga 370, haven't bumped into any major issues yet.

>Arch is quite nice but it's quite uncomfortable to use it with custom kernel
Do you mean a kernel other than vanilla or just one you compile yourself? I've used Arch with my own compiled kernel for years without a problem

How do you mean arch in chroot environment?

I mean the kernel that you comile yourself. Maybe I didn't know some tricks but updating was pain, especially rebuilding probrietary nvidia driver package and bbswitch, had to change pkgbuild a bit every time

>1. Will I have to edit some random text file to install an application? (*cough* slackware *cough*)
You don't need to edit a text file to install a package, you just "sudo pacman -S " it and that's all.
The only exception are those packages that require configuration, like Apache, Nginx, Nextcloud and so on... BUT for all those you have FULL INFORMATION about how to configure them step by step, everything explained at the Arch Wiki.
>2. I know "instability" on Arch is mostly a meme at this point but seriously, how often does stuff REALLY break (be honest)
Short answer: whenever you break it.
Long answer: packages are tested by the "trusted user" whenever they are updated. Is the user when modifies the system, the one that breaks it because of lack of knowledge mostly.
But that's the only way to learn, the only way to stop being an user and become an "advanced user", modify the system, play with it.
You don't have this limitation on Arch.
And if you need stability, just stay with the system as you want, and limit yourself to just updates.
>3. Do programs dependent on multiple dependencies break often? (I know it'll EVENTUALLY happen at some point)
Not happened to me in about 3 years using it.
BUT, that's my own experience, as you say, it MAY EVENTUALLY happen at some point.

used vanilla arch for 2 years, and then switched to manjaro when i was tired of setting shit up and fixing it. its the "just werks" version of arch, can recommend

I switched from arch to void and iv had less problems and more learning experiences in void than arch.

Used arch for 3 years and only ran in 1 or 2 updates that 'broke' my system, one of which was my fault. So it's not a bad option. Consider void tho

You mean that just modifying the PKGBUILD is a pain?
Fine I have the answer: either use an AUR manager or use the kernel from the official repos.
Complaining about extra work you decided to do is dumb.

Well you just install gentoo and install arch on second partition from running gentoo system like this wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_from_existing_Linux#Creating_the_chroot . It doesn't have the kernel (maybe I removed it), it uses the gentoo one. When I need to use something from aur, I mount arch partition, mount proc, sys and dev to it (to connect arch with running gentoo kernel) and use it as a regular arch installation. If I need to run something on xorg, I add DISPAY=:0 before terminal command.

> DISPAY
DISPLAY

well, in gentoo I can just write use flags once and they will work for all future versions of package, no need to make edits with every update

>no need to make edits with every update
How does gentoo deal with config file changes?

The pacnew stuff in arch is barely elegant and wonder how gentoo does it.

the same way, you are asked in terminal if you want to change configs, if you agree, ._cfg_config_name file is created in same directory and you can merge changes yourself or use etc-update - their tool for automatic merging

That's no fun, does it at least diff for you?

That's the scenario you wanted, most Arch Linux users use the default linux package and live happily, also if you are not happy with it, you can try other kernel:
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernels

>That's no fun
literally the same as .pacnew files. Or I don't know something about arch?
>does it at least diff for you
no, but you see what will be written to file before the question

if you decided to try gentoo, need to warn you that their package manager takes MUCH more time even if compilation time is not counted and you sometimes have to solve some problems like blocked packages. But no need to update everyday, once per week is ok

No, it's the same. I was just wondering if there was something elegant that existed for this problem.

I started using arch a few months ago and I've had three "major" issues.

>1. Tried to install LTS kernel and xorg broke.
This was right after my first install, so I wiped it clean and started over, switched to the new kernel before installing anything

>2. libc++/abi package maintainer fucked up so it broke.
Had to manually add some random gpg key before I could get it to work. Took a few days because I didn't know what the issue was at first, I just had random code that wouldn't compile.

>3. WiFi broke after reboot.
This happened yesterday. I haven't figured out the problem yet, and I've spent 3+ hours on it. I am reminded of why I still keep windows installed as a dual boot.

Everything is pretty nice when shit isn't breaking.

I have used gentoo several times before, I just have the memory span of a flea.

i've been thinking about manjaro but i always saw it as "just arch" with more repositories. it automates certain tasks?

also heard about easy kernel switching as well which I am VERY interested in

maybe i'll try, i don't really know anymore

I have both the lts and mainline kernel on my system in addition to the regular kernel, and it hasn't been too much trouble, I just had to figure out how to get rEFInd to show me different kernel boot options.

And if there is a mainline update I wait till I get home and can distcc to make it or my laptop is compiling all day and night.

if you dont install arch through cli manually then dont bother installing it at all, then the distros not for you

>cli
Fucking skiddies, I SWEAR. It's using a small magnet directly on the disk plates or bust.

forgot to tell you that package manager aks only if package manager configs are changed. wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Portage/Tools

why overcomplicate things?

>faster
>easier

0 downsides to a gui installer.

>most of them use it to act "cool"
literally every linux distro

you dont install arch because you want stuff to be easy, then you install ubuntu. you install arch because you like to tinker.

why overcomplicate things?

>no computer
>a lot faster
>a lot easier
>freedoms

You need to know some shit to use it. Installing arch with cli is currently the best known way to get this knowlede and skills. You can try an easy way but don't complain when you won't be able to fix simple problems. Also all people I know personally who installed manjaro or used some other way to escape the challange, had problems with arch in every possible place. It punishes you for not respecting challanges and cli.

>easy kernel switching
yep it's easy as fuck, a retard could do it. I was interested in it too because I needed the real time patch and I'm too dumb to do it myself
wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Manjaro_Kernels

yeah lmao copy pasting, nice skillset brah

its better that debian and ubuntu if you have a radeon gpu with xf86-video-ati as far as im concerned also pacman is fast or is it just that apt is so slow

>etc-update
has been deprecated for quite some time now. use dispatch-conf

>2. I know "instability" on Arch is mostly a meme at this point but seriously, how often does stuff REALLY break (be honest)

1 time in two years but it was 50% my fault