>Google has been accused by a number of countries of avoiding paying tens of billions of dollars of tax through a convoluted scheme of inter-company licensing agreements and transfers to tax havens.[5][6] For example, Google has used highly contrived and artificial distinctions to avoid paying billions of pounds in corporate tax owed by its UK operations.[7] On May 16, 2013, Margaret Hodge, the chair of the United Kingdom Public Accounts Committee, accused Google of being "calculated and [...] unethical" over its use of the scheme.[7] Google Chairman Eric Schmidt has claimed that this scheme of Google is "capitalism",[8] and that he was "very proud" of it.[9]
>In 2015, the UK Government introduced a new law intended to penalize Google and other large multinational corporations's artificial tax avoidance.[10]
>In January 2016, Google agreed to make a payment of £130m to the UK tax authorities.[11][12]
>Google cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the period of 2007 to 2009 using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and The Netherlands to Bermuda. Afterwards, the company started to send £8 billion in profits a year to Bermuda.[13] Google's income shifting—involving strategies known to lawyers as the "Double Irish" and the "Dutch Sandwich"—helped reduce its overseas tax rate to 2.4 percent, the lowest of the top five U.S. technology companies by market capitalization, according to regulatory filings in six countries.[14][15]
So why do we want to support NN again when a company like behind it wants more money evasion?
>So why do we want to support NN again when a company like behind it wants more money evasion? I didn't know the FCC was in charge of tax law.
Zachary Bell
Because I'd rather side with a corporation that isn't fucking me over personally than one that does.
Austin Lee
They actually were going to be taxing the internet if Title 2 didnt go away. You're technically being taxed now.
Julian Bennett
>Because I'd rather side with a corporation that isn't fucking me but they are fucking you
Lincoln King
>ISPs get tax cuts >mega conglomerates get tax cuts wow it's almost like there's a correlation
Jonathan Moore
>ISP duopolists should throttle my personal internet access because google doesn't pay taxes to the United Kingdom.
Dumbest post I've read in the past 10 minutes.
Easton Martinez
>personally You missed the key word. Google fucks people over in the grand scheme of things, ISPs want more money from me personally.
Tyler Gray
The post showed that the people backing NN aren't as anymore benevolent as the isps. NN benefits only said companies, so why keep it?
Ayden Cooper
Unlike Google, isps gave you the internet you are browsing now. Google only gives ads and makes you into a product.
Aiden Allen
Because it benefits consumers too.
Matthew Campbell
ISPs control my pipe to the Internet. Google just owns a bunch of websites I can choose to not use.
Angel Hall
>Because it benefits consumers too
It hasn't benefited consumers at all. Costs went up and your internet connection got shittier. Protip: it wasnt because of isps.
Samuel Richardson
ISPs didn't give me the internet, the millions of people around the world creating websites (a lot of which rely on Google to function) did. If I could create my own ISP for myself and myself alone, I would.
Ayden Foster
Because google's tax compliance is a total non-sequitur to whether Net Neutrality benefits me as an individual.
Wyatt Evans
>If I could create my own ISP for myself and myself alone, I would.
Even if you made your own isp, you wouldn't own the internet anymore as any other person. Cause you don't.
Jeremiah Flores
>So why do we want to support NN again when a company like behind it wants more money evasion?
Because these issues are orthogonal?
Brayden Long
False. That very notion is exactly why they are not thinking in your best interests. It's all a money campaign to keep their profits assured in the future. [Title 2] has nothing to do with consumers.
Carson Foster
Net Neutrality hasn't even gone into effect. Great job demonstrating why we need it.
Jose Martin
Any money paid to the government is money that isn't paid to me as a shareholder. Good for them.
Hunter Scott
>le epyc throttling maymay xDD They can't, fucker. Read your own laws.
Brayden Adams
Costs went up relatively due to inflation and stagnating wages. I'd rather pay $60/month for unlimited fiber to any site I want than $30/month base + $10/month each for various "packages" like this is fucking cable TV.
I own a very small portion of the internet: my own website. ISPs own only their own websites too.
Justin Ross
They are related ethically. Google's actions contradict what the doctrine of NN is for.
We've always had net neutrality. The shit we got in 2015 is a whole different thing.
Carter Campbell
>FTTC - One fibre to service a whole neighborhood >Offer the whole neighborhood 300MB/s >Blame Netflix for not properly building their infrastructure.
Why is the complaint that there isn't enough bandwidth when the US taxpayers already paid for the whole country to get fibre twice?
James Smith
>Costs went up relatively due to inflation and stagnating wages. They went up because someone had to pay for Netflix's bill. And it wasn't Netflix doing it since the government said they can't go after them.
Btw, the FTC were the ones who were suppose to judge on whether Netflix and the isps's practices between one another was considered illegal or not, but Obama moved that to the FCC, an organization controlled mostly by his yesmen. I wonder why.
Kevin Hall
I don't care whether or not google makes money or doesn't, or whether they care about my interests, because my opinion isn't based on google. You want this to matter, but it doesn't.
Anthony Morris
If your cardiologist tells you smoking and junkfood are bad for your heart while he's puffing on a cigar and eating a cheeseburger, he's still not wrong.
Carson Powell
They didnt blame Netflix for properly building their infrastructure. They blamed them for not optimizing their bandwidth usage. Netflix didnt want to do that because people will consider them a poorer service and use someone else's. That is why they did the smarter thing and got the government to "fix" that for them by lying to them about how the internet works. And being the dumbass people they are, we had politicians give the internet a Title 2 instead of having engineers come in and inform them why that's a very bad idea.
Nicholas Garcia
Okay, I just read them all and they said I'm right.
Your move.
Jaxson Cruz
Bandwidth is bandwidth, Netflix paid for a certain amount of service and made the most of it. You can't offer someone (very expensive) "unlimited service" and then go after them for using it to the fullest extent.
Owen Hughes
Then you're claiming ignorant, which is the point.
Cooper Taylor
Read your contract again. You aren't being offered unlimited service cause you have an idealist notion of what that means. I expected people on Sup Forums to know how the internet works, but most of you are just IT monkeys that believe anything hackernews or other SV sites tell you without reasearching yourself.
You DID not pay for that, nor did Netflix pay for that.
Elijah Morgan
This, why should I have to pay more for shit I already paid for?
Owen Bailey
>heres 100mb up and down >[uses internet connection fully] >wow wtf you can't do that
Jose Ramirez
>hurr durr fine print shenanigans matter more than the essence of the law If you sell someone unlimited bandwidth for $8K a month and then in the fine print you put "actually limited to 5TB/month", you should be sued into the ground.
Oliver Wright
"Up to", you little faggot.
Colton Myers
My contract doesn't have some artificial limit I'm allowed to use the internet I bought.
Hudson Hernandez
>Blamed them for streaming HD media
ISPs brought this shit on themselves when they made traditional tv service so shit, and then oversold their capacity.
Internet access should be considered a utility.
Lincoln Ramirez
Up to 100MB/s means 100MB/s is the maximum expected SPEED available to you, it has nothing at all to do with bandwidth.
Xavier Garcia
Except they said "up to", which you clearly ignored. Thats why it isnt illegal because the common man, like yourself, knows how the internet works nor ever read the contracts they are given. That isnt an isp problem. Thats a you problem.
Now if you had any sense of technology, which you dont cause this shouldnt have had to be explained to you, you can never have 24/7 100% uptime on the download speeds you purchased because technically it's impossible. It's not about costs or anything of that nature. You really cannot stay at that performance due to the nature of how connections work from your house to the data center, and to the rest of the digital network. You dumbass motherfuckers.
Sebastian Thompson
Thats the speed they can reasonably provide
If I use that to its fullest extent to as much as they can provide theres nothing wrong with that whether I only download 1tb or 1000tb
Jaxson Ortiz
You're allowed a connection to the internet you bought. You're not buying for the internet nor the bandwidth to it. You're buying to a set amount of how high you can go, but you're never allowed the speed and throughput of a connection because that would slow you and everyone else down on the network. Until quantum takes over, you're stuck with these limitations.
Carson Murphy
In the US, they can't sell me internet service "up to" any amount if they can't actually provide that in any reasonable way
TWC got in huge trouble for this years ago, they sold tons of 50mb/5mb connections but never got anywhere near 50mb
John Moore
>It's not about costs or anything of that nature. Bait thread.
Sageru goes in all fields.
Camden Hill
No, you didn't read them.
Angel Bennett
>ISPs brought this shit on themselves when they made traditional tv service so shit
Guess what. That's like your opinion. It literally is. You're literally saying
>I don't want cable, I want Netflix! even if they give just as much ads as cable, at least Im sticking it to cable!
If the internet was a utility, you'd be a lot worse off than you realize. Imagine everything you say or do on the internet restricted by the government. It's called Russia and China. You do not want that.
Jackson Scott
You're right, it doesn't. Which is why you aren't paying for bandwidth to begin with. The bigger the data you try to send down a pipe, the slower it will come. That simple fact is why you will never get 24/7 high speeds.
Brody Wilson
> Why do we respect due process and habeas corpus with burgers > One of them falsely imprisoned someone after all, these issues are morally related Guilt by association, and that criminal is wrong and immoral about everything anyhow! Even said the USA was great, time to dismantle that nation! Hurr...
Oliver Jenkins
I am paying for bandwidth. Specifically, I am paying for bandwidth with no upper bound, "unlimited".
I'm paying for X where X in my case is infinite, bandwidth at UP TO Y speed.
Daniel Williams
>Shilling level over 9000
You're literally defending their fine print and missing the point entirely.
No where in my contract does it say I can't stream media instead of subscribe to cable.
Mason Baker
Netflix PR shills must be geniuses. They somehow managed to convince the dumb normie public that it's somehow the ISPs that are throttling them and not the fact that Netflix is cheapening out on their own transit connections which is the real reason why it's so fucking slow.
Jeremiah Harris
Verizon didn't give me a bandwidth limit, they gave me 1gb up and down and didn't tell me how much I'm only allowed to download
Robert Watson
They didnt because their infrastructure was still shit and streaming services were growing real fast at this time. They literally could not keep up with the demand, and said services didn't want to pay to make them better. It was both the isp and customer's faults, but moreso the customers. The customers wanted more access to the high bandwidths services, but the isps couldnt keep up cause they would need to upgrade all their connections across the region and US. It was a matter of not being able to when the services people were browsing were becoming more expensive on internet usage.
Be advised, the isps did not ask for websites to start draining internet connections and high load times unless you have broadband. It was never their fault this occurred. Their only purpose was to offer a doorway into said internet. And now people like yourself keeping asking them to make larger and larger and make things faster when in reality, they dont control the content's creation.
This is now our generation. A bunch of stupid monkeys. I hate you all.
Sebastian King
>They didnt because their infrastructure was still shit and streaming services were growing real fast at this time. No they got in trouble because they weren't advertising a service that customers were getting.
Christopher Young
>I am paying for bandwidth No you're not. You're an idiot for thinking you were.
Carson Martin
>They didnt because their infrastructure was still shit Thats literally TWC's fault for raking in billions of profit but not actually upgrading their shit
Nolan Morris
Yes I am, you are wrong and I am right. I've read my contract in full, there's nothing that says I have an upper limit on bandwidth.
Josiah Rivera
I'm not defending isps. I'm defending broadband. I'm an engineer. I think all of you are stupid fucks who know not one thing about how you connect to the internet.
Brandon Martinez
> It's called Russia and China. You do not want that.
>Is currently considered a utility >Bill of rights not broken
What the fuck is the matter with you. Get back to Sup Forums
Jackson Brooks
Which was because customers thought they were privileged to the promised service PROVIDED by the service providers, not the isps you retard.
Lincoln Cruz
Their shit was already good. They weren't given money to make Netflix and co happy. You need to realize what isps actually provide rather than what you and normies think they provide.
Carson Sanchez
Google is a strongarm of the FCC. They are doing exactly what Russia and China are doing. And the isps nor the FTC can get on them for it because it's currently considered illegal. Line up the fucking dots, retard.
Juan Moore
>Be advised, the isps did not ask for websites to start draining internet connections and high load times unless you have broadband. It was never their fault this occurred.
What the fuck is this? It's not up to the ISPs to decide where consumer demand lies, that's for customers. If Comcast/Time Warner/Verizon actually competed they would have been falling all over themselves to meet demand. As it is they just partition their regional markets away from each other and pocket occasional government subsidies for improving their infrastructure while sitting on their thumbs.
It floors me people defend this shit on the grounds of protecting the free market.
Landon Nelson
Consumer demands for a specific service...let's say Netflix for instance...is not the isps responsibility. They can and have made their connections better for the new popular services, but that does not mean they have to 100% cater to them because the internet is not used for only streaming services. If isps listened only to customers, netflix and other "top" products would have a majority of the bandwtidth (which they already do, thanks obama), the internet would be free with them wanting the isps to take all the costs, all the sites they hate would be removed cause "popular demand", and other shit you don't want.
So yeah, listening to consumer demands is the stupidest thing in the world.
Eli Miller
You're arguing about something completely different. This is about slowing down competitors so they can better provide their own services, legally.
Thomas Ramirez
Well guess what. They can already do that legally. The only thing they cant do is bar access to a site less its criminally active. Slowing down other websites is not illegal at all for an isp, even under Title 2. So you got a lot to answer for as far as those accusations.
Leo Hernandez
Their service was shit, even at the time they were still shoehorning shitty coaxial connections that were already extremely dated at the same time verizon was pushing fiber
TWC received billions in tax cuts and subsidy to build and maintain strong infrastructure and they fucking didn't
Its the reason they're being sued now for lying (again) about their internet services. Upgrading people's service but not giving them routers able to take advantage of it along with lying about their supposed speeds again including their dumb topology that made users "share" the internet which means slow speeds during the peaks. They wouldn't install bigger better hubs so everyone just suffered and didn't get the speeds they were promised
>pay for a service >YOURE ENTITLED FOR EXPECTING IT TO WORK
Chase Reyes
The point your missing is that isps don't own whats in their pipes, nor should they. They sold their pipes to consumers and business'.
Eli Sanchez
because NN has literally nothing to do with tax evasion
Ethan Reyes
They didnt sell their pipes. They sold access to them. Big difference.
Here it is, TWC sued for blocking league of legends servers, lying to their customers, not upgrading their infrastructure leading to the poor service and outages and doing nothing about it, and upgrading people but not giving them routers able to use the service
Austin Collins
No they fucking can't, every time they tried the FCC stopped them.
That's how I was finally able to tether my verizon phone, without paying them $20 for it. I'd already subscribed to the data, it was mine. They even fucked google for it too.
Jaxson Wood
>If isps listened only to customers, netflix and other "top" products would have a majority of the bandwtidth (which they already do, thanks obama), the internet would be free with them wanting the isps to take all the costs This is disingenuous, "listening to customers" meant responding to market forces, not giving away free shit.
>all the sites they hate would be removed cause "popular demand", This is more like to happen now than ever now that NN is dead and we've stepped away from treating ISPs as dumb pipes.
Eli Carter
>whiiine, why cant I play league of legends!
William Taylor
Google might not pay enough tax in the UK. But at least they still have Net Neutrality laws there, as everywhere else in Europe. So when a search engine company doesn't pay enough tax, at least the ISPs wont be screwing you by being even more complete cunts than they were already. And if I repeat this all again 3 times veryfuckingquickly, you'd maybe even think these two things were somehow related.
Adam Baker
>every time they tried the FCC stopped them. And the FCC was only able to stop them because of the Title 2 restrictions placed on them.
Btw, the FCC did nothing prior to it because they had no case. All documented cases of isps versus services have been in the right of the isp due to the service either breaking connections or the service itself being a bad quality.
Jaxon Flores
>shill so hard you stand up for TWC illegally blocking servers you don't like
Robert Flores
>FCC owned by Dems >allow Google and Netflix to prosper while placing down every one else, both other service competitors and isps >FCC being fair judges
Logan Morgan
I dont care about the service. I care about the right for a business to manage their connections so a league of legends autists doesnt slow everyone else down in a 10K apartment building where there's already heavy traffic of data. You'd care, too, if you wanted to at least load a website in a second instead of five
Daniel James
you're fucking retarded
Carter Rivera
maybe the ISP should stop sucking dicks, breaking the law and lying to its customers instead of trying to extort Riot into paying TWC more money
Christian Powell
If Im retarded for wanting decent service for normal internet transactions, then I'm the goddammned dunce.
William Mitchell
You're retarded for thinking its not the ISP's fault for not upgrading their shit and its not their fault for the blatant fraud and extortion they're committing
Juan Ward
Online games don't use very much bandwidth, most of them don't even use TCP.
Brandon Stewart
Good thing isps dont break the law when they block leegue of crap.
Matthew Harris
They are though, thats literally illegal
William Turner
>You're retarded for thinking its not the ISP's fault for not upgrading their shit
You're right. I'm a common sense human being who understands how internet works and knows that if I'm living in a high congested populance area to begin with, I don't expect the internet to be good ever.
>its not their fault for the blatant fraud and extortion they're committing
Customers choose to pay to use the internet. They don't have to pay if they do not want to. The companies are not having men come to your door and stealing your money so you have access to their internet. Last I checked, isps weren't the mafia.
Hunter James
In ratio to what speeds are provided now across the US, that is true. Online gaming is the least of pro broadband US connections. It's the streaming shit we have to worry about. Remember, the internet is still very young. This whole business is still new and we're just flattening out the cresses.
Aaron Flores
>its just a choice you don't need it doesn't matter its fraud or they aren't getting what they're paying for
>customers only received 24-87% their advertised speeds >customers not getting upgraded to use the faster internet >extortion and fraud is ok because I have a special conniption and cognitive dissonance that makes me immune: I'll feign ignorance but pretend to know what I'm saying
David King
It's not illegal for an isp to block a service that is shutting down their connection.
another protip: title 2 was specifically to force isps to listen to certain companies so their services could thrive off the isp's and customer's dollar. They did not care about their competitors or any "freedom of market." If they cared for freedom of market, Title 2 wouldnt have been made in the first place.
Cameron Scott
>It's not illegal for an isp to block a service that is shutting down their connection. League of legends wasn't, it was because TWC wanted to extort Riot for more money thats literally it.
Bentley Walker
>cancel contract >no longer have to pay for their services.
That was easy.
Cameron Bailey
>cancel contract >must pay out contract less used
so yea, sign up for a 2 year, cancel then have to pay the rest immediately anyway, if you actually bought your own internet you would have read this
Alexander Cook
Yes it was. League was fucking up their connections city wide. Good thing Riot was a SV entity literally behind Obama, who just so happened to control the FCC at the time.
Man it's funny how things work out eh?
Justin Martin
>Yes it was. League was fucking up their connections city wide lmao you're so delusional you have no proof of this at all
>city wide this was literally the entire north east side TWC dominated
>obama wow irrelevant shit
Man I can't believe you're sticking up for extortion and fraud
Leo Morris
>Oh no, I now have an unpaid contract with a cable company I wont use again
That was easy.
Zachary Anderson
>unable to acknowledge how many tech ties there are to the Obama administration that made all the country and global wide economic changes over 8 years
Jack Ross
Man that was really stupid of you
>cancel contract >don't have to pay ever again >except you do, thats in the contract that you'd pay up for services less used >well that doesn't matter lmao just pay it
Kayden Rogers
>its obama's fault TWC was found extorting another company >thanks obongo
Thomas Harris
This. All the tech shilling stems from this >ITT: Normies think data and bandwidth are infinite