Don't fall for the CS degree meme...

Don't fall for the CS degree meme. It's too much irrelevant work; you can do better studying CS by yourself if you have the discipline.

Unless you live in an underdeveloped country, there's absolutely no reason to go to university. You'll have to deal with shit like """networking""", uninteresting research, Windows users, irresponsible classmates, arrogant professors, countless assignments, coding on paper, etc. Half of this shit won't be relevant to you.

Don't fall for it, user. You're better off by yourself.

I just think you went to a shitty university.

>muh university

I've tried learning by myself numerous times but I just can't do it, I need the structure of school

Networking is the purpose of university, with a little learning on the side, you nignog

I see that you are a master in model checking then.
Please, I've forgotten the algorithm for checking bisimilarity of timed automatas.
Can you help refreshing my memory?

>0 work experience
>will graduate at 26

How fucked am I? I'm 24 and have 2 years left.

>0 experience
>0 education

and you idiots then whine about being replaced by pajeets who at least have the decency to learn the trade

Sounds like you went to a shitty uni

Having gone to mine landed me a cushy job there working on an interesting project, with short hours and plenty of time off

you're good. 25 dropout here. your diploma will be more than enough.

Was going to do CS but decided on cyber security instead. Good meme?

Eh I've found college pretty helpful. Learned a decent amount and the networking got my foot in the door. Further it was cheap as shit. Only had to take like $3k in loans out, actually gained wealth while I was here. I worked hard and I'm graduating a year early.

thank god, hope you're right

Shit its not showing up on google

This is asinine.

University was the best thing I probably ever did. If you have the discipline to study cs on your own, that combined with a teacher will make you cream of the crop. I learned a whole bunch of cool shit I never would've thought would be worth my time. Sounds like you went to a shit school.

Btw, coding on paper is useful because it makes you think about what you're writing, instead of just barfing out code and just running and changing it till it works.

ppl keep talking about "oh you went to a shitty uni" but what was i supposed to do? jump up 50 points in IQ and waltz off to MIT? fuck man, I just wanted to not get automated away by meme AI

Why are you actively trying to sabotage students from finding work after finishing school?

GET AN INTERNSHIP
SUPER FUCKING EASY SHITHEAD!
Go through your college's career services department.

The piece of paper is very important, but other than that OP is right. You'll spend more time learning liberal arts as well as non-related science and math than you will learning what you should be. The education itself is dogshit and you learn more on your own, but the paper is worth it.

>shitty university

Shitty education system, my Uni was top 10 in the US for CSE

>work for free goy, that's the only way

You and 250,000 other people all think getting the diploma will in any way help you find a job

Your due for quite the wake up call once you actually start finding work, that is unless you have friends in high places

Study something else

>Your due
His due?

darn i knew sociology was my ticket to $300k starting

paid or unpaid internship?

I mean i'll get at minimum $10 an hour right? r-right?

>not having connections to guarantee a job straight after college

I'm paid to study in my country (the equivalent of 300$ per month).
I'm studying maths at uni because i don't want to be a code monkey.
I study programming at home because programming books are better than teachers.
I also have net neutrality and free health care for students.
Burgurs are cucks.

I have to get the piece of paper because I want to work in another country that requires the piece of paper in order to receive a work permit.

If you work 2 years you will have your work permit, this is faster thant studying.

Either do a really in-depth side project or join a club on campus. Bonus points for side project if you do it with 2-4 other people

Too bad you live in a country where when you graduate you’ll be paying for arts students to get their degrees with your high shitty tax rates

>ITT:
>lazy shitposters enabled by lazy shitposters
>deluded kids paid by their communist government to accomplish nothing in their lives
>a couple of hard workers pushed aside for working hard
Sup Forums was right.

Not to bureaucratic Euros. It's degree or bust.

I am working on top of going to school, and I'm pretty sure my internship was open exclusively to students.

degree holders btfo

how work with no permit, to have permit to work

>if you have the discipline
what if I dont

Maybe you don't have the life skills for CS. Even in university you'll have to learn lots of shit by yourself.

Degree still means that you were able to successfully follow instructions and complete tasks assigned to you for at least 4 years.

Employers know you didn't learn anything that useful, but they at least know you can get work done. This is why it's a great filter for candidates.

>You and 250,000 other people all think getting the diploma will in any way help you find a job
>Your due for quite the wake up call once you actually start finding work

>Start looking for job;
>"We prioritize graduates from X, Y, Z universities";
>Have diploma from Y;
>Got hired pretty quick;

So no, it's actually useful, so this entire thread makes me laugh so much.
Of course, experience and being some really good programmer/networking is useful as fuck, but having a good paper is useful, especially when it comes to differentiating between similar candidates for something.

>You'll have to deal with shit like """networking""", uninteresting research, Windows users, irresponsible classmates, arrogant professors, countless assignments, coding on paper, etc. Half of this shit won't be relevant to you.

Sounds like the perfect way to prepare for the real world. Actually, that is easily the biggest and best reason to go to uni.

pretty fucked, I finished masters without any experience so my only option is academia

reminder

your degree means jack shit. your grades mean jack shit. your effort, your enthusiasm, your whatever... all means jack shit. only nepotism works in the real world.

if you didn't get that internship while you were young, if you don't have family or friends willing to get you, or give you a job, you are unemployable.

if you are an autistic shut in, better just kill yourself, or find something you can build by yourself.

I'm 3 years in and cruising on natural talent

So as someone who already has a useful ish bachelor's (meaning I don't need to take irrelevant bullshit classes again) how bad of an idea is going back to school to get a CS degree

Jobs in my current field are boring and depressing

If it's STEM you'll skip the math, so there's that.
I wouldn't recommend going to university just to learn CS.

Nah, not STEM. As someone else in the thread mentioned, I kind of need the structure, plus I looked at a lot of entry level jobs for programmers and a good 80% or so wanted a degree. I know basic programming but I don't see myself getting to a useful level self teaching

Brutalist redpill there is

The chads and stacies who spend all their free time partying and fucking will be infinitely more successful in life than a shut in nerd who spends all his time studying. Going to college to earn a high paying job is a meme.

>I got a degree to get a job

Found the highschool dropout

Didnt even bother with university career services, landed $9.50 an hour as a software engineer at a local technology company in the town my university is in as a sophomore
>But you live in big city
Nah senpai, backwoods Georgia. I got luckyish I suppose, but really it isn't hard to find people that want you if you can write functional code (unless you're so painfully awkward that it hurts people to talk to you)

>unless you're so painfully awkward that it hurts people to talk to you
feels bad man, every time I go to interviews I usually have no trouble with whiteboard quizzes but I keep mumbling while talking

>too much irrelevant work
Which is exactly they reason why you should go. Your degree is proof that you are capable of digging through bullshit and will thus be more likely to get hired.

...

I feel that, but when I interviewed it wasnt too bad, the president of said company did the interview which was kinda scary but he had dressed as like a budget steve jobs (black turtleneck, the glasses, hip old dude attitude) and it was all I could do to stop from laughing at him the whole thing was so ridiculous. If you get to be interviewed by a software/computer guy rather than HR or some bullshit, it makes it a much better experience

Agreed %100. If you are capable of learning on your own it's far more effective to use free/pirated resources online. I got a 2 year degree in mechanical engineering, was planning on finishing 4 yr but I realized I hated it. I dropped out, started studying on my own and got an entry level job. One year later and I have a v comfy position at one of the largest tech companies in the US. If you're a quick learner and willing to work hard, then uni isn't worth it at all

For those lurking that think OP is a troll he is NOT trolling. THIS IS TRUTH. IT WILL SAVE YIUR LIFE.

I've been studying cause for 3 and a half years and am just learning this now. School is a waste of time because they don't teach you the things you really need for industry. You realize this when you start applying for jobs. That's when you realize all the shit you really don't know but they expect you to know. The only major where they don't teach you what you need to know in order to get a job. If I could go back I wouldn't focus on my math classes and instead spend that time learning and building attractive projects for my resume. The only thing you get out of school is "networking" which is a meme. This is why Indians are doing so much better because they spend all their time doing projects and learning niche skills that businesses want. Grades and gpa is a waste of time!!

Welcome to my life brother. Im desperately trying to make my portfolio look ok but I don't have much time in between all my stuff classes. I'm running out of time personally

You just made the most sense

Nah. I don't regret it at all. School is valuable and I speak as someone who doesn't want a job in CS

This thread is literally those kids who go "when are we ever going to need this lol" in math classes

Fuck off.
Nowhere will you ever learn all the tech you need to know. Uou might study what the employers were asking only to after you get and understard that tech they are asking something else.
A good degree gives you all the foundations and methodology to be able to understand anything quickly enough.
No employer is actually looking for every single piece of tech they list on the role description, but if you show up with atitude, good fondations and knowledge of one of those technologies or related tech, you get the job.
For entry level they just interview you to see how interested you are in the area, and if you did get the degree because the college passes anyone by asking you about foundations.

I don't list github on my CV. I only list my education, publications and projects.
Was only refused once in my country, and that was mainly because it was by an outsourcer and they sent me to an interview with a role that had nothing to do with me...
Just learn CS. And I mean CS, not how technology A B or C works.
Listing github projects will only show how bad your code and practices are. Just go to interviews and show them all your algoritms knowledge and all your inteligence and passion.

I did get a degree out of it.

I don't even know how to program, but this seems intentionally bad. Is he waiting an entire day to get tomorrow's date or what?

9.50 an hour for programming seems pretty low honestly. How backwoods Georgia are we talking exactly? I live in the Metro area so I wonder if I've ever even heard of your place.

Yes. It's a joke.

If you need the structure of school to learn it, then you're going to need structure to do it, and you aren't going to get that structure at any workplace, so you're going to end up at the unemployment office.

>started uni this year
>network and it engineering bachelor
>am learning a lot and the exercises are fun and challenging
>teachers are really great, want to engage in discussions after class

>armchair philosophy

>It's too much irrelevant work
This.
I spend so much time answering emails, making meetings, doing presentations on the stuff I do, writing papers about the stuff I do, making posters about the stuff I do.
I spend about ~30% of my time on actual work and so much time on promoting it.
People keep telling me it is all good, but how the fuck would I know?

>>Too bad you live in a country where when you graduate you’ll be paying for arts students to get their degrees with your high shitty tax rates
> mfw he doesn't tax optimize

I can't work at all when I am home.
But going to work, closing the door to my office and it just happens.
Taking a break when you are home is too easy.
At work, I can barely figure out how to spend my lunchbreak without going back to work.

Is UCF one of those schools? Just graduated from there.

I think this is a good thread to ask this.
I worked for 4 years in the world electrical distribution boards, as the head engineer, project manager and CAD (started from the bottom up when I was 18 up until now)
Work is a bit stressful but satisfying to watch the end product comes to life (2500A boards, bunch of relays and controllers etc).
I left for a new place so I can start my CS degree with more time, but as I left I felt like It would be much easier to go back.
Honestly confused to what to do, the degree will take 4 years and in the new job I do nothing but back office support which feels unsatisfying compared to what I used to do.

My school is complete shit. The teachers are arrogant assholes. The only language they teach is c++ but they won't let you use any of its new features on assignments. There's only two classes focused on software engineering and it's all OO in c++. The rest is a bunch of data science stuff I have no interest in. Also despite teaching only in c++, the teachers, tutors, and TAs have zero interest the language and recommended you use any other language in your personal projects. It fucking sucks. I'd like to go some where else but there the only major university in town and my dad needs my help with his business when I'm not studying.

tell this to companies which are not going to even look at your resume if you don't have a degree, you fuckwit

Just because companies look for meme shit doesn't mean you need to chase it.
Tons of companies follow AmaGoogSoft and use their hiring practices/technologies long after they're deprecated or just outright misuse and misunderstand them.
They're easily impressed by secondary shit, you can impress them with different secondary shit.

oh I thought OP meant stuff like TCP/IP networking. I was like that sounds cool to learn about. I wasn't thinking about the "interaction with other humans" networking stack.

>get CS degree
>get hired
>female diversity hire coworker feels "uncomfortable"
>go to jail for XY chromosome disorder
>never work again

>grades and gpa is a waste of time

don't believe this. most employers require a minimum gpa just to apply.

The minimum requirement is usually a 3.0 though, which is a B average. I'm making straight B's this semester by doing jackshit.

You're literally autistic if you need university for "networking".
I skipped almost every class where attendance wasn't mandatory, still got great grades and never had problems finding jobs.

Why is it taking you so long to graduate if you never had a job?

What was it, specifically?
Btw, I sorta agree. The whole point of college is getting a fucking degree. Period.
Actual learning? Networking? None of those require going to college.

I got an IT degree years ago but I've never been able to really use it. I never feel good enough for what people want and college didn't really give much hands on experience. I feel screwed because of my anxiety issues too so there was no "networking" .

This.
I explicitly refused some internships they offered me because they were unpaid. Finding a good paid internship was hard, but I eventually did it.
Here in Italy unpaid internships, and even unpaid first JOBS right outside of college are becoming the norm. This is insane. Yet everyone does it because "muh experience".

Grades matter only for the first few jobs.
Once you have 5 years of experience or so, they don't matter. Employers who still care at that point are downright retarded and not worth working for anyway.
>inb4 2.0 GPA
Graduated with 3.9 average.

It's useful, but it's because of credentialism and the piece of paper. Not because of actually having more knowledge.

What do you think would be a good job to transition to from a desktop support role. I have plenty of basic knowledge of networking and all that and I am looking to move into the cloud/security industry. But on the short term what is a good upwards move from a desktop support role.

I never applied to internships because they were usually only looking for the really good GPA students and prob weren't even paid anyway. There's always someone so much better than me that I'll never really get my chance to learn and improve and things when they always just want such perfect people when you job search even if there is a job to search for in the first place other than retail and fast food which I know I would be horrible at not that I think it's "beneath" me I just know what I'm terrible at and that kind of thing would be one of them. Sick of people assuming everyone can do those kind of jobs and I do have more respect now for people having to work those jobs because of it.

>He thinks having a CS degree from a shitty school is worth $300k
Lmao'ing at your life

t. burger

Studied engineering. All the people I went to uni with that partied hard dropped out. Everyone else got jobs straight out of uni.

Friends of mine finishing medical school, they're also the ones who studied the hardest with the occasional parties, while the ones who partied constantly 3-4 years ago aren't there anymore.

tl;dr you're wrong.

Degree matters, but only in so far that it demonstrates that you have the willpower and intelligence to finish a 4-6 year degree, so that your employer knows you have been through hardship. Grades don't matter as long as you pass.

Lastly, the interview matters, and connections help, but that's mainly in the US. is partially right that if you're an autistic shut-in, you might as well KYS, because employers higher people based on how they fit into the work environment.

Pro-tip: go to sea if you are autistic and a shut-in. At sea no one gives a fuck, they only care if you can do you work. Off-shore, merchant, navy, etc.

I wouldn't say you're unemployable, but I agree that connections are still the most relevant thing to find jobs.
Even if you have a good degree and good experience, you just can't beat the guy who knows the right people.

Grades don't matter because of grade inflation. Grades don't even simulate how you'd do in real working conditions. Pass/fail is enough.

Bout 45 minutes west of Savannah (the nearest university roundabout there is where I'm at). For a first programming job, I'll take it even though I know I should keep an eye out for better pay. It beats minimum wage working delivery

The economy is only gonna get worse there ARE no jobs and there will be even LESS jobs.

good luck getting first job without uni

They don't, but emoloyers are dumb so they care.

I'm on my 4th job, none ever checked grades. I showed them the front page of my degree, and that was it. Also numerous interviews where I didn't get the job, no one checked grades.

Again, maybe in America, but not in Europe.

>maybe in America
I've had employers do background checks to confirm that I actually had the degree I said I do, but none of them have ever checked grades. The only place that ever gave a shit was the company I did my college internship since the program has GPA requirements.

If you list your GPA on your resume/CV you are a fucking loser.

>unpaid first JOBS
Jesus. Is that even legal?

lead software engineer here, studied for 5 months myself here and got the first job I applied to, been doing this professionally for a few years now and work on a market leading app for SMEs.

Hired 5 developers now within my time and not once have I or the CTO asked about a degree

"EXPERIENCE IS THE KEY FOR EVERYTHING"

I think that you can have great tools by taking a degree and also you can make great connections that will pay off.

At age 18 I went to the army which in my country is mandatory and while been there I really improved my web development knowledge by my own.

I personally started a CS degree, at age 23, at that time I started a student job as a junior front end developer which became a full time job.. I quit after a semester and a half.

So what's I want to say is if you are young and don't know shit about programing and what do you want to work with take a degree.

If you're having enough knowledge and you think that you can reply to job application try to learn a little bit more by yourself and try to find a job.

*You can always learn for an online degree you can be a software developer with a b.a. cs as well..

For the people that got jobs without a degree; what steps did you go through?