Q: can you function without internet access in today's world?

Q: can you function without internet access in today's world?

A: No

Ergo: Internet is a basic utility and must be regarded as such

Other urls found in this thread:

pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.joc.7b02232
fcc.gov/restoring-internet-freedom
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

"being inconvenienced by something" does not equal "not being able to live without it"

My parents and grandparents do very fucking well without it.

Q: Without internet will you die?

A: No

Ergo: Internet is not a basic utility and must not be regarded as such

To elaborate: An internet is as much of a basic utility to you as heroin is to a junkie.
It was your choice to make yourself dependent on it and as a result become addicted to it.

Yes, you can.

this

Q: What does ergo mean?

You can't even apply for college or federal aide or even look up their address without the internet anymore

Egonomically speaking.

Where was you when verizon/AT&T/comcast went into your city mayor and made em vote a law that forbids competition?

NN is self imposed on countries that have actual ISP competition.

hell I can't even apply for a job without the internet, so many things have abandoned paper forms and shit that they can ONLY be done online. The internet is an integral part of every day american life today. Saying that people willfully made themselves addicted is complete bullshit and a luddite philosophy that seeks to ignore human progress and advents of technology. Electricity is an integral part, running water is an integral part, the internet is an integral part of every day life.

You can't do a square shitton of things without the internet. But applying for college is not a basic utility either.

The same can be said for electricity, running water, and telephone service

I've been thinking about it, and I may have an idea.

Could we use dial-up to, at the very least, protect free speech on the web? We'll have to design websites around size, making sure that they can load quickly enough even under dial-up speeds, and we'll probably have to cut out all videos and most pictures (but on the flipside, all ads, too) but at the very last, it's a way to make sure text still gets across.

That was just an example of something very common I can't do without the internet

Without the internet, you can't have a huge array of services and products at your fingertips. You can't actively in real time monitor your credit, or even pay bills in many cases. Walmart would be the closest thing to an amazon but you aren't going to get NEARLY the selection.

>Could we use dial-up to, at the very least, protect free speech on the web?
No because dial-up is antiquated and obsolete, Many ISP's don't offer Dial-up because its an old technology from upwards of 30 years ago. It rapidly became unpopular when DSL and ADSL services were implemented

Basically another way of saying, therefore or because of the previously mentioned things this is the result.

I don't event think many webpages today would even load on dialup, its so slow. Loading a single page would probably take hours

You certainly can apply for most colleges by paper still

Can you function without your parents basement?

No.

Ergo: Get the fuck out and get a job neetfag.

Good luck applying across the country or getting forms from a school in a place that isn't driveable

the only things that would be available would be local colleges, state colleges at the farthest

Or you can just keep using the internet like you already do, nobody cares about whatever you want to say, don't worry.

No fucking company will even look at me if I don't have an email address.

Try living in a cave or hut with no electricity and plumbing. It's easy enough to make a fire, and a river or stream will provide for all your water needs. Utilities are far from necessary for survival, and all of your basic rights can still be obtained without them.

Or you know, your high school counselor

All those things you've mentioned fall under the category of "convenience" not "basic need".

Having a car is convenient and expands your opportunities in terms of living, finding a job etc etc. You don't need a car to live.
Ergo car is not a basic utility.

Dial up is available wherever there are telephone lines. It's not as fast as broadband and it's never going to be, but if isps throttle or block below dialup speeds, it might be worth it to bring it back.

If we can't make a faster internet, we'll need to make a smaller one.

1890
>You don't need indoor plubming
1900
>You don't need electricity
1930
>You don't need a telephone
1950
>Affordable healthcare is for commies
...
2017
>You don't need internet serivce

Jesus Christ conservashits are stupid

Every single one of these things is true

>gibs me dat
fuck off nigger

>convenience
Yea and water shouldn't be a utility either because having to walk out to a well is merely an inconvenience and not "basic need"

And I don't need electricity either, its just a convenience I can get by with candle light.

Therefore by your logic I don't need plumbing in my house or electricity to live. But you go ahead and be ultra minimalistic because you like to think of america and it being the number one super power as merely a conglomeration of "conveniences" and not as a standard of living.

This isn't about basic need, its about a standard of living. The standard of living here is basic electricity and water hookups, internet, advents of technology that interconnect people and the world. Living without is a disability.

Sure but if I call up verizon right now they probably won't give me a dial-up connection, they probably don't even have equipment for dialup anymore and my computer doesn't even support that type of connection because a network card for it wouldn't be compatible because there'd be no driver

>I can't stop sucking corporate dicks. I can't even do it to help myself

>>You don't need indoor plubming
You still don't. Learn what the word "need" means.

>>You don't need electricity
You didn't: in 1900.

>>You don't need a telephone
You didn't: in 1930.

>>Affordable healthcare is for commies
No one said this in as simple terms.

>>You don't need internet serivce
Well you don't. Unless you will die without it, you don't NEED it.

>Well you don't. Unless you will die without it, you don't NEED it.
more like, " you didn't: in 1990"

the internet is INTEGRAL to the standard of living today.

>If we can't make a faster internet, we'll need to make a smaller one.
We can totally make a faster internet, ISP's are just milking the fuck out of it and aren't doing and preparing the US for the next generation. The US's population is getting bigger, the demand is growing, services are expanding. Making it smaller is not an option, it won't ever work, it'll never work.

Hell, phone routing is all done over the internet now.

No one who thinks of the internet as a unnecessary luxury seems to have a problem with all these other unneeded services being regulated as a utility.

>suck corporate dick and get paid
>suck tyrone's dick and get nothing but more criminals
Not making a good case for yourself here Jamal.

no it's not you stupid fucking baby, read Industrial Society and Its Future by ted kaczynski

Water is considered a basic need because access to water is detrimental to your life and health. And I say water access not running water because running water is a convenience.

>And I don't need electricity either, its just a convenience I can get by with candle light.
Quarter of the human population lives without it.

>Therefore by your logic I don't need plumbing in my house or electricity to live. But you go ahead and be ultra minimalistic because you like to think of america and it being the number one super power as merely a conglomeration of "conveniences" and not as a standard of living.
Why are you so aggressive? I'm not an ultra miimalist you dumb shit I merely pointed the fact that your first world sissy interpretation of basic need is completely wrong.

>This isn't about basic need, its about a standard of living.
Then why the fuck did you call internet a basic need in the OP then?
There's no discussion that access to fast and reliable internet connection is an integral part of a standard of living in the western world.

It's almost like conservashits have no argument for deregulating the internet and they're unwilling to admit they're corporate cucks

I'm not saying 'we' as the isps, I'm saying 'we' as 'we'.

By smaller internet, I mean making the file sizes you need to download smaller using compression and cutting out data-heavy media. It won't allow streaming or anything like that. But it will protect text-based data and thus, free speech.

A shortening for "ergonomic", when referencing something being the cause for something else.

It wasn't integral in the 90's its integral in 2017, EVERYTHING has some sort of internet affilation in some way

A hometown business has a website, a facebook page, something to get their name out there and be relevant.

A house with a family, has an internet connection to connect to other websites that offer services, research, databases tons of stuff that you CANT access without the internet

Go ahead, tell me about a scholarly article published yesterday that you can somehow get access to at a local library without the internet

>Water is considered a basic need because access to water is detrimental to your life and health.

False. You can haul buckets from the hand dug well like humans did for hundreds of years before we had this communist public water system. Lazy fucking kids today I swear.

You don't NEED assault internet

>A hometown business has a website, a facebook page, something to get their name out there and be relevant.
there's also classifieds posted in town on the bulletin boards and at church

>A house with a family, has an internet connection to connect to other websites that offer services, research, databases tons of stuff that you CANT access without the internet
can do all that shit at a local library. and don't tell me reading scholarly articles published ONE day ago is an integral part of life.

>Quarter of the human population lives without it.
yea in shitholes, America isn't some african wasteland you mongoloid. Use your fucking brain.

>Why are you so aggressive? I'm not an ultra miimalist you dumb shit I merely pointed the fact that your first world sissy interpretation of basic need is completely wrong.

You are being extremely reductive, you missed the point by shoehorning some shit "basic need" into what is effectively a standard of living in the US

The Standard of living in the US is a minimum wage of 7.25 (probably 100 times what you'd make an hour in africa per hour.

The standard of living dictates how people live established by technology, advancement and social construct that structure our society as a whole

The closed doors, kinda hampered my attempts.

didn't stop the bomb threats at the fcc meeting

>To elaborate: An internet is as much of a basic utility to you as heroin is to a junkie.
BULLSHIT
heroin is so physically addictive that if you stop cold turkey you have a very high chance of death. even without the risk of death, the withdrawal symptoms alone will make you wish you were dead.
internet has no physical withdrawal symptoms, some may argue they can manifest from habitual issues, but that's rather irrelevant and mostly bullshit

Exactly. So act like a decent adult human being and earn your money to pay for your internet instead of demanding free stuff like a millenial.

MEGA CHALLENGE!
>GUNS

>there's also classifieds posted in town on the bulletin boards and at church
>just use this antiquated system that people from yestergeneration used because thats all we NEED
No this is dogshit. The standard of living demands instant access to advertisement and view of business offerings.

Which business is more likely to survive? Some business with no telephones, no website or anything, or any sort of modern technology because they don't "NEED IT" or a business that stays relevant and ahead of the curve by doing what is necessary to keep up with the standard of living as it demands it?

>can do all that shit at a local library.

No library is going to have the new paper on chemistry published yesterday without any sort of internet connection.

You are a fucking luddite

Lmao you're so fucking buttblasted you can't even put your sanity back together long enough to read 2 sentences in a succession before sperging out.
I clearly did precisely mention that pay water I mean water in general not running water.

Let me type it once again. Running water is a convenience not a basic need. I'm eastern European, when I was still a child my grandparents who lived in a very rural area didn't have running water. They had a well.

Then the isps shouldn't expect more money for content they didn't create.

>You don't NEED a gun, just use your fists!
>you don't NEED running water, just dig a hole!
>you don't NEED electricity, just use a candle!

people still use it in my town and it works fine.

>No library is going to have the new paper on chemistry published yesterday without any sort of internet connection.
again, see scholarly articles published ONE day ago is not an integral part of life.

Your great grandparents might have done well without electricity, but that doesn't stop electricity from being a utility

>using communist public libraries

>no indoor plumbing
no backed up sewage flooding your house, that'd be nice..
>no electricity
no fuckhuge wires at risk of snapping/falling at any moment and sending 2 thousand volts through you, or electrical fires
>no telephone
no more spying, yay privacy!
>no internet
yay, even better more privacy and no social networking spreading diseases at rates which antibiotics have now become ineffective, no more wasted lives infront of computer screens rather than excersizing/skill building..

jesus christ, this life is fucking stupid

it's funded by the church, not tax payers

>people still use it in my town and it works fine.
No it doesn't, your shit made up anecdotes don't magically displace everything that relies so heavily on the internet today.

>its not integral so that doesn't count, you don't NEED it
Its not about need you retard, its a standard of living to have access to running water, electricity, internet, telephone and all sorts of every day technological advancements.

>reading papers published YESTERDAY is INTEGRAL
no it's objectively not. I can almost guarantee you nobody in this thread has read a journal the day after it was published. you're grasping at straws.

This, you'll never find any sort of built in the last 100 years in any town that does not have a water, gas, electricity or cable hookup.

OP is an idiot, but so is everyone in this thread arguing that a utility is about a "need".

As a human being, even in the United States, you do not need access to electricity, plumbing, or the telephony network to survive, but we consider all three of those basic utilities. Similarly - but not equally - we don't need a car, but we recognize the utilitarian necessity for transportation, which is why we have public transportation systems and even why your access to transportation is considered during situations such as child custody cases; your ability to transport yourself under you own power is also a large consideration for disability ratings.

Equally to that idea, communication is not a basic need for survival - you will not die from being unable to communicate broadly to the world - but it has become so important to us socially that a severe reduction in broad communication capacity would be an unreasonable and arguably unjust burden, especially when it's being created by the desires of private corporations for the sake of making an extra dollar.

The economic impact should be considered; how many jobs will this create? How much poverty will be reduced by the increased corporate freedom? Considering that telecommunication companies have continued to grow and innovate to the tune of billions of dollars of value since net neutrality regulations were put into force by the FCC, I can't imagine the economic impact is either unreasonable to those companies nor significantly helpful enough to warrant the reduction in common access to broad-communication capabilities.

The results wait to be seen, but I personally have no faith in a government or telecom companies that have already proven they will screw you anyway they can, including outright breaching their contracts with customers and even breaking the law, just to make a few pennies more. The people who are saying this isn't something to be worried about are burying their heads in the sand.

You're retarded, go enjoy your mudhut with no water and electricity using a spear to get your food every day.

What chemistry papers published yesterday have you read today?

Fuck me it's like arguing with a child.
Internet like many other things are part of the standard of life in the developed world as you already mentioned. And there's no arguing that.
What is there to argue is your dumbfuckingly stupid attempt to change the definition of basic utility just because it fits the worldview of a drooling amoeba somewhere in United States of School Shootings who's deeply convinced that he's the shit and the rest of the planet is the sorry people. No

There are more people living without electricity than there are American Internet users. Internet is not a basic need. It's a tremendous convenience for you and the world you happen to live in.

Everything is a convenience you fucking mongoloid. Living is usually preferable to death by deprevation.

...

pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.joc.7b02232

Heres a paper I read just last week that I know you won't find in any library in the US because pub ACS is an internet only database.

No you're a child, you keep wanting to reduce everything to "needs" when no one ever called it a need, its a standard of living. Every house today will have basic hookups for every basic service that the US offers as part of its standard of living.

>dont worry nothings gonna change!
I wish I could be this blatantly, willfully ignorant of the world. These companies have been caught dozens of times just sense the NN regulations were implemented screwing customers by breaching contracts via reducing access to certain content, unreasonably throttling up- and downstreams altogether and to certain content, stacking hidden fees to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars functionally stolen from their customers, etc.

No intelligent person should have faith in the big telecommunication companies to not take advantage of this situation to the disadvantage of literally every consumer they can screw. You're either an idiot, woefully ignorant, or a corporate shill.

Q:Without electricity will you die?

A:No

Ergo: Internet is not a basic utility and must not be regarded as such

Companies work in their interest either way, removing title2 is a step in the right direction removing the costs of complying with regulations. It only helps everyone.

>There are more people living without electricity than there are American Internet users
No one gives a fuck who lives in Africa, this is an AMERICAN paradigm. You are dense as fuck.

I have no idea what you tried to achieve by posting that. And even your analogy is shit. While you could consider "fire" to be basic utility detrimental to your survival a candle was a technological advancement that allowed the convenience of having a safe, long-lasting (for the time it was used in) source of fire that could be easily stored, transported, extinguished and re-lit. But the fact that you currently don't consider candles a basic utility since it was replaced by considerably superior technological advancement like light bulbs and many other artifical sources of light that followed just proves that candle was nothing more than a convenience. A way to ensure the best possible standard of living allowed by the state of technology you have access to.

>Heroin is so physically addictive that if you stop cold turkey you have a very high chance of death.
Wrong. Benzos and alcohol are the only drugs of which withdrawal can be fatal.
Opiates will make you physically ill to the point where you can die from side effects such as dehydration, but you will not die from the withdrawals themselves.
Fuckin r/drugs kids.

>I have no idea what you tried to achieve by posting that
The "needs" argument is retarded and has no basis in modern society.

>your analogy
reducing everything to basic needs removes literally every advent of modern technology made in the last 5000 years because you don't NEED any of it to perform basic biological functions of survival and reproduction.

it's literally a physical dependancy, and yes you will die without it, dipshit.

>reducing everything to basic needs removes literally every advent of modern technology made in the last 5000 years because you don't NEED any of it to perform basic biological functions of survival and reproduction.
That's absolutely correct. Want does not equal need.

right, and that's part of why OP's argument makes no sense

Heroin no, you cant die when you stop taking it.

>the companies are going to break the laws no matter what, so why even regulate?
>criminals dont care about laws, so why even have any to begin with?
You're an idiot.
The cost of complying with regulations has not impeded the ability of the telecom companies to grow and innovate in a significant manner, unless billions of dollars of value is considered "insignificant". I would also like to see the evidence that reasonably demonstrates the lack of the regulations would have allowed the telecom companies to grow and innovate in a more significant capacity in the same time, especially when we have outstanding evidence (including testimony before Congress) that the big telecoms in the U.S. consider things like expanding or upgrading the basic infrastructure to be unreasonable burdensome as far back as the late 1980's, a position they have maintained for 30 years while the rest of the world has innovated.

Removing the regulations literally only helps the telecoms, as I've already explained the dubious nature of the idea that this will generate substantial economic capacity for the population as large, especially considering how well telecommunications has continued to grow even with the regulations. Removing title 2 is nothing but partisan cronyism.

Ajit Pai personally met local ISPs and received over two dozen letters complaining that the regulations made it hard to compete with the big guys, as they had to spend many resources studying huge regulations, worried if an investment would be not allowed and wasted. Watch his speech.

Its not even want, its all about efficiency.

These advents in technology improves human development. It improves the lives of society, makes it more efficient and promotes longer and better lives.

The same way that Telephone, plumbing and electricity all became apart of the american standard of living, the Internet is the next generation of advents that will become mandatory as apart of this paradigm. Sure while you don't NEED any of this technology it makes life and interaction with the rest of society more efficient and reduces bottlenecks. So when people often say you can't do shit without the internet today its more like a hyperbole with how society has progressed to a point of integrating the internet into every day life the same way plumbing, electricity and every single piece of human engineering is integral to this standard of living.

Denying the internet as a modern technological part of our standard of living is niave and a philosophy of being a Luddite

>It's a literal physical dependency
so is every drug...
>Yes you will die without it
no, you literally won't lmfao.
>pic related
as I said, only from side effects will you actually die.
dipshit

>a dozen "letters"

And he got 2 million "complaints" from people who have been dead for years saying how much they support removing NN.

>as they had to spend many resources studying huge regulations
Ah yes the big regulations telling you that "every packet is the same and should be given the same priority". No idea how on earth could an ISP understand that without a team of lawyers.

letters from small internet service providers

I'm sure they were as real as the complaints from dead people

Wrong pic related

Title 2 was heavy handed, read here and inform yourself.
fcc.gov/restoring-internet-freedom

the only drug I know you can't go cold turkey on is alcohol. Heroin is not one of those drugs.

>the FCC also adopted robust transparency requirements that will empower consumers as well as facilitate effective government oversight of broadband providers’ conduct. In particular, the FCC’s action restored the jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Commission to act when broadband providers engage in anticompetitive, unfair, or deceptive acts or practices.
>The framework adopted by the Commission will protect consumers at far less cost to investment than the prior rigid and wide-ranging utility rules. And restoring a favorable climate for network investment is key to closing the digital divide, spurring competition and innovation that benefits consumers.

what does reddit not understand?

The same style of regulations have existed in Europe for literally decades and has not affected the capacity of small ISP's to develop and grow. Equally, there are still dozens of small ISP's that have developed in the U.S.; the difference they cannot break into the national arena because they cannot compete with the already established major telecoms, and not because of some bullshit idea like, "It costs too much time and money to read the law or hire a lawyer."

There are almost a dozen or so local ISP's just in my city and local area, who offer competitive service to the major ISP's. The only thing that limits them is the fact that all the infrastructure is owned by ATT or Verizon or Spectrum, and the cost of expanding their own network is actually a very burdensome cost (even considering the massive capacity of the big telecom companies, the aren't expanding or updating their infrastructure in my area, citing cost as prohibitive.) In fact, the entire reason these small ISP's can even compete in this market is precisely because they exist where the big companies refuse to expand.

It's a smoke-screen. It's literally bullshit. You're either willfully ignorant or a shill.

your pic literally says heroin withdrawal can be fatal...
>via seizures, or respiratory complications
the diarrhea and sweats which lead to dehydration can also lead to seizures/death, but does not cause respiratory failure nor is it the sole cause of seizures

why do so many retarded faggots like yourself try so hard to sound stupid on the internet where it'll forever be recorded and shown to the world?

to misquote someone:
>better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt
really don't know why you'd claim i'm wrong when your image literally proves me right..

This is wrong though, they were afraid it was going to be detrimental to them, but they were later informed after pursuit of the issue that their hardware and software defaulted to the very same standards NN was founded on.

S I P B O I S 2 0 1 7