>be american >in 80-90% of the country your local government grants 1 or possibly 2 ISPs a total monopoly and bans all competition(or makes it extremely difficult) >these government created monopolies use their monopoly powers to fuck over consumers and throttle traffic >sperg out like insane manchildren and be incredibly confused as to why these corporations are so big and why they are doing this >demand MORE government control over the economy
>it is crony/fascism No shit but the vast majority of liberals/leftists are TOO STUPID to understand this
Sad
Jose Morales
America hasn't had a free market since before 1913.
Austin Lee
300 million phone lines is just roughly 150mbps
the entire internet could be ran off a single room of systems if people were reasonable
Jackson Johnson
Capitalism naturally trends towards monopoly.
Angel Anderson
>Capitalism naturally trends towards monopoly. t. brainlet
Monopolies only happen thanks to government intervention.
It's funny you leftist retards brainwashed yourself this much.
Jaxon Johnson
Literally wut
A monopoly can more easily exist in an unregulated economic system than not. Sure, some regulation can encourage monopolies but those are regulations generally enacted through corporate lobbying (ie not true regulations)
Of course when you let the companies set your regulations those regulations aren't going to work. But republicans know this and it works to their advantage with their "starve the beast" mentality.
Logan Rodriguez
of course it is, but that's the inevitable outcome of capitalism. it just keeps going and going and going until it becomes crony capitalism.
Austin Wright
>Monopolies only happen thanks to government intervention. pretty much. patent system is a law of government granted monopolies.
Jackson Diaz
yea and who do you think influences the government to create those monopolies. money is power, idiot, and government can be influenced by power. the only option is to literally not have a government, and then you get corporations BEING the de facto government, which is insanity.
Carter Myers
no its cyber punk
Luke Ross
>A monopoly can more easily exist in an unregulated economic system than not. Complete bullshit. Competition means there is literal competition and monopolies can never form because there are always firms competing with them.
>(ie not true regulations) How do you define "true" regulation. All regulations are to blame. Abolish them all.
Jackson Edwards
don't you enjoy your capitalism, OP?
Andrew Price
>of course it is, but that's the inevitable outcome of capitalism. But it's not. Back when we actually had free markets things like this were extremely rare.
>it just keeps going and going and going until it becomes crony capitalism. The problem is government, not capitalism.
>pretty much. patent system is a law of government granted monopolies. Finally someone that understands.
>yea and who do you think influences the government to create those monopolies Large corporations. This means we need to shrink government power back to it's constitutional roots. Back in the late 1800s there was very small amounts of government/corporate mixture of power.
>and then you get corporations BEING the de facto government, Nope, never happened during the gilded age.
Carter Sanders
>new ISP called EqualNet shows up >promises full net neutrality >has to connect to other ISPs like Comcast >Comcast isn't net neutral, EqualNet has to connect through Comcast to get to destinations like Netflix >EqualNet can't provide full net neutrality Am I wrong? How could an ISP ENSURE full net neutrality without connecting directly to all destinations?
It's true though. Bring back the laws of the gilded age, but unironically.
Tyler Martinez
you're a fucking idiot if you actually believe this crap or maybe you missed the whole point of ancapism
Liam Hill
>Competition means there is literal competition and monopolies can never form because there are always firms competing with them.
Wrong. When a single company controls the majority of the market, others can't compete because their profit margins have to be higher to be able to survive. Regulations are made to prevent that.
Justin Diaz
>When a single company controls the majority of the market This can only happen in specific situations and it doesn't last long. Look at STANDARD OIL, one of the biggest examples. They were like 60% market share near the end thanks to market competition. How is that a monopoly?
>others can't compete because their profit margins have to be higher to be able to survive. If this were magically true they would all go bankrupt whenever a company gains like 60% of the market share. This clearly never happens.
>Regulations are made to prevent that. These regulations only fuck over consumers and make people poorer.
Anti-trust laws need to be abolished.
Gavin Perez
>Who was Rockefeller
Christian Richardson
> Existing infrastructure already owned by a few companies, effectively owning the isp market where they own the cables > Competition either has to build own infrastructure or rent existing infrastructure > No competition bc of high level entry costs or market advantage of existing ISPs who own the Infrastructure.
Could anybody tell me where I am wrong here? Like I understand that ISPs want their cut, but how do people not see that goverment regulation, or a gov owned infrastructure maintained by premiums/subsidies and rented to ISPs is the better option? Compensate companies for their current infrastructure or regulate equal access & get rid of NN,
Connor Howard
you're not wrong
Joseph Brown
>>Who was Rockefeller I explained about standard oil.
Do YOU know who rockefeller was?
What is your argument?
Adrian Reed
oh, so you probably missed the part where standar oil had 90% of market share and had to be slain by anti monopoly regulations
Andrew Myers
BUT THE FREE MARKET WILL CHANGE IT. PAJEET TOLD US HE GAVE THE INTERNET FREEDOM KEEP DA GUBMINT OUT OF MY INTERNET. I HAVE ON EXAMPLES OF THE FREE MARKET ACTUALLY WORKING BUT GOD DAMNIT I'M GONNA KEEP SPOUTING ABOUT IT.
Ryder Thompson
>> No competition bc of high level entry costs or market advantage of existing ISPs who own the Infrastructure. There is no competition because the government either BANS competition or makes it extremely expensive.
A free market would mean massive competition in this industry. If comcast is being dicks and providing shit service then another company can come along, lay down lines and compete with them to lower prices. They would take their market share within a short period of time. Startup costs aren't a big deal, google fiber is already doing shit like this but they are running into the GOVERNMENT problems I am talking about.
You leftist turds are holding back technological progress.
Read this before you shit out another post wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-just-cable-companies-and-blame-local-government-for-dismal-broadband-competition/
William Brooks
lel, what example?
Samuel Watson
government involvement is what has led to bad investment by america telecom. stuff like them subsidizing fiber and they never did anything with it. you going to tell me a place like romania has better internet because of government regulations? I'd be surprised if that was the case but I probably am wrong. just felt like saying my 2 cents.
Robert Baker
it's like you didn't bother reading his post at all
Justin Ward
>oh, so you probably missed the part where standar oil had 90% of market share and had to be slain by anti monopoly regulations HAHAHAHHAHAHA That was for like a few years. After decades of free market competition their market share was like 60%. How is that a monopoly at all? They were broken up when their market share was 60% or so. This is a fact you ignore.
Why are americans so fucking brainwashed by public school propaganda?
Why do they believe whatever their government tells them?
>BUT THE FREE MARKET WILL CHANGE IT. But there is no free market you brainwashed corporate tool. Liberals are brainwashed corporate cucks that enjoy the vast comcast has a government monopoly. They LOVE comcast having these monopolies. That's why comcast donates so much money to the democratic party.
Oliver Perez
That is honestly the most retarded thing I have read in my life. There is a reason why we don't centralize these systems.
Alexander Thomas
>it's like you didn't bother reading his post at all It's like YOU didn't bother reading my previous post at all before you started blaming "muh startup costs" instead of the real reason it either costs too much or is flat out illegal
Justin Mitchell
>That was for like a few years. yeah. somewhere right before the anti monopoly hammer. rings a bell? >They were broken up when their market share was 60% or so literally google it, you dumb fuck >Why are americans so fucking brainwashed by public school propaganda? except i'm not an american. you seem to love assumptions. fits your ancap mentality
Samuel Perry
Why are redditor leftists so fucking brainwashed?
Why do they suck comcast and verizon's dick so much while at the same time pretending to be against them?
They are the ULTIMATE useful idiots.
Honestly though anyone that doesn't support free markets deserves a fucking bullet in the head. I want super fast internet and these stagnation loving cucks are against it.
Logan Gray
look, you retard. explain right here and now, in simple terms, how can you enter an environment that's already controlled by a big corporation without being a fucking genious and inventing something like time machine let it be ISP as an example
Justin Robinson
>yeah. somewhere right before the anti monopoly hammer. rings a bell? No you dumb fuck this was during the late 1800s. The anti trust laws and breaking up of standard oil happened in 1911. By this time they had like 60% market share thanks to free market competition.
>literally google it, you dumb fuck Okay lmao >Due to competition from other firms, their market share had gradually eroded to 70 percent by 1906 which was the year when the antitrust case was filed against Standard, and down to 64 percent by 1911 when Standard was ordered broken up[37] and at least 147 refining companies were competing with Standard including Gulf, Texaco, and Shell.[38] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil
Wow 64%. Truly they NEEDED to be broken up, this was super duper important for some weird reason. You fucking idiot.
>except i'm not an american Then why do you regurgitate what Americans learn in public school?
Liam Bailey
>thanks to free market competition. i said google it
Jeremiah Williams
Sup Forumstards are supporting corporate welfare just liberal tears. It is like put fire your house while you and your friends stay there just for give a good prank you him.
Blake Bailey
>how can you enter an environment that's already controlled by a big corporation WHAT THE LEGITIMATE FUCK? This happens all of the fucking time. If a company is being a shitty company and providing a shitty product or service it creates a MASSIVE profit opportunity for another company to enter the market and take their market share.
>let it be ISP as an example But this happens even now with ISPs in markets that are mostly unregulated If what you are saying is true, it would be impossible for there to be areas with 5 choices in ISPs, but they exist in unregulated areas. The answer is to ALLOW market competition, not ban it. You corporate whore.
Anti-trust laws are fucking stupid. Holy fucking shit are they ever dumb.
Hudson Walker
show vagene bitch lasagna
Josiah Peterson
>If a company is being a shitty company and providing a shitty product or service no, the company is good and provides a good service. so good that 100% of people around use it. stop moving the goalposts and answer my question
Eli Wood
I just fucking did and it linked me to the wikipedia page which proved you wrong. The wiki page links to actual historical data as well if you want to look that up yourself. Cry more you ideological brainwashed cultist fuck.
>Sup Forumstards are supporting corporate welfare just liberal tears. But we are the only ones against corporate welfare.
Tell me right fucking now why you support comcast having a total monopoly in a certain area and the government using violence to ban their competition?
Why do you brainwashed corporate cocksucking liberals support this?
Why? Answer the question right now.
Charles Ross
>If comcast is being dicks and providing shit service then another company can come along, lay down lines and compete with them to lower prices.
Cost per mile of fiber optics is huge. You can't just lay down more and more cables. On an infrastructure level I don't see much difference from fresh water pipes/sewage pipes, power grids, gas etc.
Just regulate equal access to infrastructure and compensate existing owners of said infrastructure.
Jaxon Smith
FUGGGGGGGGGGGA XDDDDDD
Jonathan Hill
>o, the company is good and provides a good service. so good that 100% of people around use it. Then what the fuck is the problem then? Also in situations where the company is incredibly good and providing good cheap products, they never have 100% market share, there is always competition. At most they could have like 70-80%.
Matthew Diaz
>using wikipedia as a source at this point i should probably end this conversation also you're becoming catatonic because i seem to ask questions to which you have trouble answering
William Taylor
>You can't just lay down more and more cables. Let large companies like google, cox and cablevision literally do this all of the time. It's incredible how ignorant you are.
>Just regulate equal access to infrastructure and compensate existing owners of said infrastructure. No, free the fucking market and allow people to compete with comcast. It's currently fucking ILLEGAL.
How can ANYTHING get solved unless you fix this issue?
You brainwashed leftist morons. Corporations LOVE you.
Tyler Hall
>Then what the fuck is the problem then? that is has monololy, did someone just removed your brain since the last post? (the real question is: was it even there to begin with)
Sebastian Sullivan
>but they exist in unregulated areas [citation needed]
Juan Butler
The only explanation is that burgerland is every bit as retarded as the rest of the world says it is. Look at who they just made leader of their country.
Ryder Gomez
>there is always competition >because i said so
Zachary Wood
Capitalist shills gonna shill forever for their fatcat masters
Ian Moore
>Tell me right fucking now why you support comcast having a total monopoly in a certain area and the government using violence to ban their competition? Stop trying rewrite history, user. Most of Sup Forumstards support a regulated market like South Korean. Second, most Sup Forumstards don't give a fuck about others regulations of FCC.
Jaxson Brown
and they're doing it for free
Luke Thompson
Good thing I have Spectrum, Verizon, and Google to choose from in my local area. Every time Google makes a move the other two are quick to adjust their prices. I only wish that Google could finish laying out the rest of their fiber, so that the rest of my city could experience this glorious competition for my dollars.
Jose Moore
> Let large companies like google, cox and cablevision literally do this all of the time. It's incredible how ignorant you are.
Again, tell me where I am wrong. Because a cable network isn't like your LAN network. In your scenario we would end up with a lot of redundancy or a few ISPs "sharing" their infrastructure restricting other from competing. The total sum of all maintenance costs would be bigger than having one highly maintained network. You can still have the private market compete on gov contracts to build & maintain said network.
Adam Myers
>>using wikipedia as a source
Please google "standard oil market share 1911". You will be utterly shocked at the fact you are horrifically wrong.
It's incredible that you people do not even know this.
Landon Gray
>that is has monololy you can't even spell monopoly You can't even answer the question why a company providing a great product or service for cheap winning in the market is a bad thing. Idiot.
>[citation needed] Look up areas in the USA with the most amount of ISP choice, their local governments interfere the least. Stop being a corporate fascist.
Why would competition magically go away? I don't understand your retarded reasoning.
Tyler Stewart
>live in anarcho-capitalism >new ISP >wants to make new infrastucture >big ISP could undermine it or tell gov to ban it >but it's bored so it's like: lel, try your luck >fuck, this is my chance! >let's start with people in my town >first thing: cables >i need to dig here and there...after i ask the owner of this land >uh...oh...it's the big ISP >okay, then maybe...no, this also belongs to big ISP >fuck, i can't physically connect my cable to these houses without going through big ISP's private land! >hear big ISP's laugh in the distance
John Wright
Those evil capitalist shills raising our living standards and giving us freedom, how horrible.
I wonder what it's like to be a brainwashed sychophantic leftist. Incredible. Go suck comcast's dick.
>Most of Sup Forumstards support a regulated market like South Korean. I'm not a Sup Forumstard. Sup Forums is fascist socialist anti-free market faggots
Juan Sanchez
>Because a cable network isn't like your LAN network. In your scenario we would end up with a lot of redundancy or a few ISPs "sharing" their infrastructure restricting other from competing. The total sum of all maintenance costs would be bigger than having one highly maintained network. You can still have the private market compete on gov contracts to build & maintain said network. Yet this entire thing is wrong and in areas where competition is actually allowed, this bullshit doesn't happen,
Jeremiah Fisher
>he actually believes that Standar Oil was the only branch of this company >he uses wikipedia that's constantly being criticised by all kinds of Sup Forumstards to be a leftist propaganda shithole >he wants me to google it aka use a company that has over 90% of a market share >It's incredible that you people do not even know this just
Julian Cook
I wonder what it's like to be a corporate cocksucking libtard that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO against allowing companies to compete with comcast.
They love Comcast SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much they will vote to use violence against comcast's competition.
It's so fucking ironic that the people that call themselves progressives or socialists are the biggest corporate cocksuckers.
Cooper Phillips
>you can't even spell monopoly and you can't even adress the point without ad homonym >You can't even answer the question why a company providing a great product or service for cheap winning in the market is a bad thing don't break your spine on that dodge >Why would competition magically go away? because, as you happily pointed out, there's no visible problem with the monopoly
Austin Rogers
>>he actually believes that Standar Oil was the only branch of this company The term "standard oil" in all of these articles and research papers includes everything rockefeller owned. The competing firms were owned by other firms, a lot of them were from Texas which was starting to boom and rockefeller had nothing down there and was losing business.
Man you're asspained as fuck.
>>he uses wikipedia that's constantly being criticised by all kinds of Sup Forumstards to be a leftist propaganda shithole No I was using it because YOU PEOPLE constantly hold it to a high regard and I was showing you that your own precious website is against you. lol wow
>>he wants me to google it aka use a company that has over 90% of a market share Yes, so you can accept the fact that standard oil had 64% market share by the time they were broken up.
I don't know why you are this asspained about an actual historical fact. I mean why are you even still responding to me. Just accept you were wrong and move on.
James Taylor
i'm a communist. no corporations allowed
Cooper Anderson
So called ‘intellectual property’ laws are government granted monopolies, that while purportedly intended to encourage creativity have exactly the opposite effect. Many examples and studies have shown the harmful effects of copyright and patents, but the reasons for this effects would be much more clear if one realizes that copyrights and patents are dramatic and arbitrary restrictions of both freedom of expression and free trade. As with any other government regulations, it is not surprising that big corporations (eg., Microsoft and Monsanto) use them to stifle competition; while others (eg., the Church of Scientology) use them to censor information that could embarrass them.
Aside from all the abuses and unintended consequences, copyright and patents are a great obstacle to creativity and innovation: the creations of all great thinkers, inventors and artists in history would never have been possible in a vacuum and always depend on a context consisting of all the preexisting works and ideas.
Carson Nguyen
>don't break your spine on that dodge What dodge? 100% market share isn't even possible and even if it WAS and they were providing a great service then what exactly is the problem? Why is them being a monopoly bad in this situation?
>because, as you happily pointed out, there's no visible problem with the monopoly There isn't in this magical world. Good thing real life doesn't work that way and companies are not perfect gods.
>The term "standard oil" in all of these articles and research papers includes everything rockefeller owned. >the article from wikipedia >No I was using it because YOU PEOPLE constantly hold it to a high regard and I was showing you that your own precious website is against you. >he is the fist to use it as a source >this much backpedaling >Yes, so you can accept the fact that standard oil had 64% market share by the time they were broken up. >standard oil >nothing else
Evan Evans
Helicopters 4U>So called ‘intellectual property’ laws are government granted monopolies, that while purportedly intended to encourage creativity have exactly the opposite effect. >Many examples and studies have shown the harmful effects of copyright and patents, but the reasons for this effects would be much more clear if one realizes that copyrights and patents are dramatic and arbitrary restrictions of both freedom of expression and free trade. >As with any other government regulations, it is not surprising that big corporations (eg., Microsoft and Monsanto) use them to stifle competition; while others (eg., the Church of Scientology) use them to censor information that could embarrass them. >Aside from all the abuses and unintended consequences, copyright and patents are a great obstacle to creativity and innovation: the creations of all great thinkers, inventors and artists in history would never have been possible in a vacuum and always depend on a context consisting of all the preexisting works and ideas. THIS GUY GETS IT
FREE THE MARKET
ABOLISH IP, PATENTS AND COPYRIGHT
Tyler Carter
>100% market share isn't even possible SiriusXM has 100% market share. eat a dick made of shit
Joseph Bell
>>the article from wikipedia and every single google link and research paper you will find. You're falling apart here.
>>he is the fist to use it as a source Yes because leftist whiners use it. Ever heard of the term "taste of your own medicine". Christ you're an idiot.
>>this much backpedaling Lol what backpedaling, I'm just correcting your stupidity.
And at the END of this you're THIS butthurt over an actual historical fact about american economic history. How fucking embarrassing.
The wikipedia article links this: Rosenbaum, David Ira. Market dominance: how firms gain, hold, or lose it and the impact on economic performance. Greenwood Publishing Group, 1998. p. 33
>>nothing else We were arguing about standard oil, you lost. Deal with it.
Xavier Hill
Test
Jason Kelly
>SiriusXM has 100% market share. eat a dick made of shit Because nobody gives a shit about satellite radio. They aren't making much profit because it's a stupid thing only boomer truckers use.
William Gonzalez
>dodging difficult questions >backpedalling >damage controlling >pretending to be retarded >contradicting his own posts >insulting left and right it was obvious that you're a retarded ancap from Sup Forums and you're not even hiding it any more i'll screencap you and use you to show your friends the real face of ancaps
Jack Hernandez
I don't get it either OP. I live in central MD which is otherwise a commie shithole, but still not corrupt enough to have granted local monopolies. I have 5 ISPs to choose from. I went with Verizon FiOS, buying my own router instead of renting theirs to save money. They increased my speed from 50/50 to 75/75 for no extra cost and no action on my part. The NN shills should direct their irate energies towards their local governments for fucking them over.
Thomas Morgan
>and every single google link and research paper you will find >he links only to those who fit his dumbass mentality >Yes because leftist whiners use it >this much hypocrisy >We were arguing about standard oil, you lost. Deal with it. >because i said so again! >i-i-i wasn't wrong, i swear! >how dare you call me out on my bullshit?!
Hudson Collins
>>dodging difficult questions But it's you that dodged the empirical fact standard oil had 64% market share by the time they were broken up and now you're raging about it desu >>backpedalling Look, you're backpedaling yourself and you can't even spell the word. >>damage controlling KEK you're doing this now by not acknowledging the fact standard oil had 64% market share by the time they were broken up and your narrative is garbage kill yourself you poverty creating piece of shit
>it was obvious that you're a retarded ancap from Sup Forums It's incredible how mad you brain damaged leftists get on this board. If you can't take the heat and deal with actual criticisms then get the fuck off Sup Forums.
>i'll screencap you Oh no I'm so scared? What are you 12 years old?
David Sanders
communism is superior to ancap in every way prove me wrong
Noah Bennett
>he still dodges the questions >he still damage controls >he still moves the goalposts >he still can't adress the point properly without ad hominems >he still uses typos as his line of defense >If you can't take the heat and deal with actual criticisms then get the fuck off Sup Forums. >layers of irony
Hunter Sullivan
Kinda true. I live in an area that there are really only two ISP I can choose. Cox or CenturyLink. They aren't that bad, better than comcast, verizon, and at&t for sure
Hudson Barnes
>Those evil capitalist shills raising our living standards and giving us freedom, how horrible.
The highest living standards are in countries that are increasingly adopting socialist economic policies and crack down on coporations, shithead. Burgerland is a sinking ship.
Ian Price
>>he links only to those who fit his dumbass mentality So now you're saying these academics who have actually taken the time to research the issue are outright LYING and academic frauds because they disagree with your "stories" you were taught in government run schools.
How fucking embarrassing for you.
lol
Brayden Wilson
why not nationalise internet
Jose Walker
doesn't even understand basic economics
Easton Myers
>communism is superior to ancap in every way Lets see, in communism or attempts at communism the average person is a slave and productivity stagnates, in ancap we get mass production, high living standards and freedom.
Freedom(free markets) are far superior.
Brody Powell
>>he still dodges the questions >projection >>he still damage controls >projection >>he still moves the goalposts >projection >>he still can't adress the point properly without ad hominems >projection >>he still uses typos as his line of defense >projection >>If you can't take the heat and deal with actual criticisms then get the fuck off Sup Forums. >projection >>layers of irony >projection
Benjamin Cruz
>the average person is a slave wrong >and productivity stagnates wrong >in ancap we get mass production waste of resources >high living standards wrong >and freedom wrong again wew... >Freedom(free markets) are far superior in being complete and utter shit. yes
Samuel Butler
>no u! ancaps, everyone
Connor Davis
>The highest living standards are in countries that are increasingly adopting socialist economic policies TOP KEK The most socialist countries are the biggest shitholes on earth. Cuba fucking sucks, north korea is a shithole.
Sweden, norway and Switzerland are some of the most economically free nations on earth and thus have the highest living standards.
How does Switzerland have extremely high living standards compared to USA when they have much freer markets? Explain this, you can't.
How can you people even live with yourselves being THIS intellectually dishonest?
Christian Lewis
thats how you end up like Australia
Charles Gray
>Freedom(free markets) are far superior.
Full-fledged communism is shitty but so are free markets, they just lead to monopolies and oligarchy. The best economic model we've had so far is mixed-market, complete with regulations and a social safety net. See: all of the countries with the highest living standards.
Elijah Cruz
because I want internet to be faster and I don't want to pay taxes for government bureaucrats
But that's EXACTLY the post you just sent to me lmao
Jose Perry
>Full-fledged communism is shitty it's not shitty. it's just utopian for today's standards
Sebastian Long
Wow an actual brainwashed bootlicking commie that wants to be enslaved.
It's absolutely incredible that you people still exist. Why has every example of socialism been totalitarian slavery while every example of economic freedom been prosperous and peaceful?
Jonathan Jenkins
>But that's EXACTLY what i've been doing all this time lmao FTFY
