Is it even possible to hide from the NSA? It seems they have almost unlimited resources and have backdoors in everything not open source.
I even saw something on Wikipedia about them having a backdoor in RSA itself.
(I'm not asking this because I have a reason or intention to, I'm just asking theoretically)
>unplug RJ-45
>Throw router into the trash
>???
>Profit
I think you're being a little paranoid, Jason.
Stop using technology.
...
no and if you try to hide that just makes you more suspicious Mohamed
>plugging in some random USB drive
You deserve to get cucked then
Also i live in the 2nd floor and my fans run at 100% all the time anyway cus why not?
I don't see how I'm being paranoid. I am asking theoretically.
It's incredibly difficult but it is possible.
>Not having delta fans connected directly to an analog fan controller.
Depends on what ISP you use, depends on whether you are smart enough to use anonomity services, depends on whether you are smart enough to not use social media.
Yeah you can do it but I'm guessing you are a tard OP and can't figure that out
What are the points of failure in a secure communication? Where could someone
> Humans/Physical spying
> Hardware backdoors
> Operating System backdoors
> Software/browsers backdoors/trackers
> ISP tracking and collecting data
Is there anything else? I'm a brainlet
>anonomity
You're the tard here, you don't seem to realise just how powerful they are. They have managed to completely bypass the Tor network in the past. Learn what you're fucking talking about before you speak.
won't work on me. my fans are powered by molex and regulated by thermal sensors so they're completely independent from any software
>regulated by thermal sensors
>hmm, what generates heat I wonder
>definitely not software controlled components
*where could someone intercept your communications
It's begun to really bother me that there are so many organizations and companies tracking and selling my data, and I want to take back some control. What is the most secure set-up? Public wifi + Tails + Thinkpad?
>tfw you bought a 3pin fan
you do realize the stupidity of your post, right?
because their reaction speed to increasing temperature is so slow that i'd have to leave my PC running for literally years before they could grab few KBs of data this way
No YOU are the tard. I'm a fucking infosec mgr working for an ISP. I'm pretty sure I know much more about this than you do user.
I actually made sure the Calea systems don't just magically come on in the middle of the night and start watching our user's traffic. Do you even have a fucking clue what I'm talking about or are you still drinking Code Red playing Call of Duty till 2AM?
some user mentioned bypassing Tor... they do that because the user in question is too dumb to keep the rest of their computer up to date and install a backdoor tracker that is still able to locate even though the comm is proxied.
ISPs generally see you as TCP connections, authenticated tunnels and stats in many to many NAT tables.
DMCA has probably done more to track people at the ISP level than the NSA does.
I setup monitoring/visibility every day that tracks user metadata... that is why I'm pretty sure done right the NSA will NEVER find you... cause I use the same systems they use everyday to protect my own users.
The only difference between me and them is they do it on a massive scale and their taps are the actual ISPs feeding them connection info and raw traffic feeds.
they can have all my shitposts on g and sp my guy
yes, it is. even in the most paranoid scenario, it's still possible to hide from them. very hard but possible
>Is it even possible to hide from the NSA? It seems they have almost unlimited resources and have backdoors
It's quite easy actually. Just don't be important enough for them to make use of active measures against you and keep as up to date as possible on the capabilities of their passive measures. For example, Tor is FOSS, helps protect you against the NSA's passive data collection, and there are enough people using it that it will never be enough of a qualifier for the NSA to start using active measures against you. So long as you aren't involved in Iran's nuclear program or other similar activities that the NSA can and will piss away money on endless amounts of zero days to go after you, you only have to worry about their passive measures. On a side note, you should be using at least Tor, a VPN + a locked down and secured browser, or wifi that isn't yours + a locked down and secured browser to protect against datamining by various corporations in the US anyways these days, considering the level of tracking possible with browser fingerprinting and how ISPs have already been shown to have APIs that allow the owners of any service you connect to on the web to look up your real name and address from your IP address.
Thanks for a serious response. That's a good point I hadn't really considered - they wouldn't bother going after small fry, even passively (data collection/hoarding).
>Is it even possible to hide from the NSA?
Yes.
Just get yourself Intel or AMD 486 that have NO BACKDOORS.
I am not sure, how you will live with 16 mb of RAM, but...
data collection is inevitable because it is low effort. the point is, live your fucking life instead of acting like a tinfoil
>they wouldn't bother going after small fry, even passively
They most certainly will collect data on you passively, because it's passive and in the case of many of their ways of passively collecting data would actually take more effort to not collect data from specific people, and the biggest problem with that is that they store the data for a very long time so that if an NSA agent (or an agent from any other 3 letter agency seeing as how the data is now shared) can go back and look at your web history or other information about you in varying levels of detail a year or maybe more after the fact (it was a year back when the Snowden leaks happened, but that data is years old now and their capabilities have almost certainly advanced since then). The passive data collection capabilities are important to know and understand because you very likely will have your data collected by them at which point it your worries stop being about them pissing away money on zeroday exploits and start being about if whatever random person employed by any 3 letter agency with access to the NSA's databases is looking you up be it related to an investigation or not.
holy sentence structure batman - you need some fucking periods
What I really need to do is stop writing out my posts, then going back and inserting more information.
i heard that if you write something like "i'm planning to kill president of the united states" abour 100x times, you'll get a free ride in the party van
anyway, just writing this once will be picked up by their servers and will move me up on their watch list so in a few hours some NSA agent will have to read my post and look at this gif
This user is correct. Passive data collection is a problem.
Even if you lay low or whatever it is you think you're doing to avoid active collection, it won't matter later.
They're going to use that data. The algorithms will flag you down in the future for what you're doing now.
In what world does the government not having tons of intimate information on you put you in a worse situation than them having tons of intimate information on you?
>It seems they have almost unlimited resources and have backdoors in everything not open source.
Showden complained NSA with 30,000 employees cannot analyze all those data, and they only care about his ex-girlfriends and ex-wive because bad people dont use electronic devices. Most here think NSA have magical AIs analyzing every data because all those shitty Hollywood movies use "magical AI analyzing every data": flagging facebook pictures about drunk people as potentially hazardous, but that magical AI dont exist.
Why nsa dont protect american of russian hackers ? why need collect data of 99% of world population when spying Trump, Putin and Wall Street faggots should be most interesting ?
Global surveilling is hilarious because they are spying the wrong people.
thats a bit naive dont you think. the data is being collected and it can be categorized based on various factors such as physical location, ip, fingerprint etc. It is also possible to compare data from various users. which means you can find similarities and differences between different users. If they know from previous experiences that people who like a certain twitter page or make a certain comment are more likely to commit crimes then they can flag those users. putting all these things together makes a person traceable. obviously the majority of people aren't harmful and the NSA doesnt need to analyze all that data, but the algorithms in place narrow down people that need to be looked at.
thanks doc
t. five eyes operative
>But while air-gapping computers is an effective way to protect them, it is not perfect. In recent years, computer security experts have devised various fiendish strategies for extracting information from these devices. One is to commandeer the computer’s built-in speakers and use them to send data ultrasonically to a nearby recording device, such as a mobile phone. Indeed, some security researchers claim to have seen exactly this kind of ultrasonic malware in the wild.
>The best countermeasure for this kind of attack is obvious: remove the speakers. Without speakers to generate sound, a computer cannot leak data acoustically. Or so everyone thought.
OR you just remove all other listening devices from your room.
So let's say you're some kind of politician and actually have to worry about this stuff. Then before you use your computer, you just put away your phones, smart watches, and other electronics into a separate room, like the kitchen.
That seems easier than removing the speakers and worrying about "fansmitters"
>data collection is inevitable because it is low effort. the point is, live your fucking life instead of acting like a tinfoil
that's like saying "you are black, and cops are shooting blacks left and right. who cares, just let racism happen instead of acting like a SJW"
I know it's a bad example but i couldn't think of something better in the spur of the moment. if you want a food analogy, it's like going to a restaurant, and the waiter spits in everyone's food. you notice this, and point it out to your friends. but your friends just say "dude stop acting like a tinfoil, you're not important enough for the waiter to spit in your food. and even if he does, who cares just live your life"
As far as I know they just have a spider scraping things like everything else. Certain keywords get logged and some relevant information, and if nothing with that ID (like IP address or name and the like) comes up again for ages they delete it. Can't store everything forever.
Also, blue board faggot.
We're not completely there yet but it's time to start getting used to the end of privacy.
Make pic related your motto and just treat the entire world outside of your head like a public space.
No, fuck you. I don't feel like surrendering my human rights just because submissive assholes like you think that'd be easier.
Privacy is not a human right (not that human rights aren't a meme in the first place) and crypto is just a long building honeypot that will be blown open by the next generation of computing.
Is you want to be secretive go off-grid, but the easiest thing to do is ultimately live life in a way that survives scrutiny.
People in the middle ages lived life as though God was watching. We will have to live life as though our fellow people are watching.
>race analogy
>food analogy
God's watching only affects me when I'm dead
Epicurus lived in a different time.
Nowadays you can't even walk around in your underwear in your own backyard without somebody freaking out.
>the easiest thing to do is ultimately live life in a way that survives scrutiny.
"Be my slave, because that's easier than being free"
no it's more like saying cops are shooting gangbangers, a high portion of which are black, so if you're black you might not want to dress and act like a gangbanger
it's impossible to avoid data collection, but because of the sheer volume of data, your particular data will likely never be seen by human eyes unless you go around raising red flags
Your fellow people watching only affects you once you're caught.
It's the same principle, only God's punishment lasts forever. You're getting off easy, for now. As technology proceeds the means of punishment (or probably just reprogramming) increase as well.
We're the hive spawning the sentient superorganism user.
praise Gnong, welcome to the combine
>dumbasses not knowing data collection is built in to all hardware, which means when you crypto shit, the hardware just sends the gubment the decrypt key along with your encrypted data
Our time is easier and much less strict in its rules.
Well the only way to be free from watching eyes is to leave civilisation, if you want to go the hard way.
you know data over powerline is a thing right? there's realistically no longer any such thing as an airgap
>not that human rights aren't a meme in the first place
spoken like a true american.
>>Well the only way to be free from watching eyes is to leave civilisation
You leave out the possibility of changing civilization. It's been done plenty of times before.
>oh just give up goy, it's hopeless
This is what someone says when it isn't actually hopeless.
Probably not easily in a 5 eyes country, they had a 3 day sliding window of every data packet sent back in 2008, now the price of storage has come down and storage capacity has increased they must have a month's worth to trawl through at the very least.
then why did they write that article lol
I have lived like this my entire life. My dad died when I was an infant and when I was younger I thought he would be watching me as a spirit/from heaven/whatever.
Never stopped me from being a massive degenerate though.
>not knowing that hope is the cheese that keeps you running the maze
>why did some idiot who thinks he knows what he's talking about write an article
because he's good at bullshiting and it made him a few bucks
The concept of God differs in that I may achieve redemption and forgiveness before I die. In the living world, Big Brother is able to dig up anything that occurred in my life to destroy me, regardless of what occurred afterwards.
>You leave out the possibility of changing civilization. It's been done plenty of times before.
You want to change civilisation in a way that leads to more privacy? I don't see any hope for that, information is to valuable to whoever has power.
Just being realistic. Rights are only as real as their enforcers.
Maybe if you repent and change your ways now Big Brother will forgive you your sins as well.
It's the best you can hope for.
It is sensible for Big Brother to be forgiving because it creates incentive for positive change in people. If people have nothing to lose you lose control over them because there's nothing to bargain with.
Just be a good boy from now on and get with the program.
big brother doesn't care about your sins unless you're in a position to be helpful and refuse to cooperate
I'll believe it when I see it. Look at all this Weinstein etc shit for example. Regardless of what happened since, a single event is unforgivable.
somebody has an airgapped machine up in klondike or similar out of range of GWEN running on a generator.
>information is to valuable to whoever has power.
>Rights are only as real as their enforcers.
That's why we need to deny information to those in power. We have the means to.
Well if you're an actual rapist unforgiveability might be a good thing.
Big Brother is pretty reasonable it generally just wants stability and prosperity.
So you do all your daily browsing through TOR to make a point?
Freedom is worth more than stability and prosperity.
Imagine if all internet traffic went through Tor. Imagine if being able to trace someone by an IP address just wasn't a thing you could do. Imagine if, on the internet, not only did nobody know you're a dog, but they couldn't possibly know unless you chose to tell them. Think of all the bad things that'd make impossible.
i told them that communism was a good idea but they didn't listen
>Freedom is worth more than stability and prosperity.
Which things do you want to be free to do that you feel you aren't allowed to do with the rest of society knowing you do them?
>Imagine if all internet traffic went through Tor. Imagine if being able to trace someone by an IP address just wasn't a thing you could do. Imagine if, on the internet, not only did nobody know you're a dog, but they couldn't possibly know unless you chose to tell them. Think of all the bad things that'd make impossible.
That's not going to happen though. If anything the internet is going to become more transparent and less private. We're at the end of the Wild West stage. Piracy is being replaced by subscription services, anonymous forums and chats are being replaced by social media.
Trends that serve the superorganism outcompete trends that serve the individual.
>Which things do you want to be free to do that you feel you aren't allowed to do with the rest of society knowing you do them?
You make the mistake of assuming its about some specific thing, it isn't. Its about doing things I already do, but with the peace of mind that nobody's watching. Do you shut the bathroom door when you take a crap? You don't technically need to. You're allowed to crap in a toilet, and everybody knows that's what you're doing in there. But you can and should be able to do so with the confidence that nobody can see it.
>Trends that serve the superorganism outcompete trends that serve the individual.
We aren't mindless little amoebae at the mercy of nature's forces. We're sentient beings who control our own, and our society's, destiny. If what you say were true then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. We'd be living in some hyper-collectivist ant-colony world.
>You make the mistake of assuming its about some specific thing, it isn't. Its about doing things I already do, but with the peace of mind that nobody's watching. Do you shut the bathroom door when you take a crap? You don't technically need to. You're allowed to crap in a toilet, and everybody knows that's what you're doing in there. But you can and should be able to do so with the confidence that nobody can see it.
You can also use your computer without your friends and family knowing what you're doing. But like the toilet, the door can still be kicked in when necessary.
>We aren't mindless little amoebae at the mercy of nature's forces. We're sentient beings who control our own, and our society's, destiny. If what you say were true then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. We'd be living in some hyper-collectivist ant-colony world.
We pay a lot of lip service to individualism but in reality we're extremely collectivist. You're not some solitary tiger that is self-sufficient for everything except breeding, you're a creature that would die the moment your peers stop delivering you food and water. The modern world is extremely interconnected and it moves like a shoal of fish: In shared direction but with no one at the helm.
I'd argue we are actually more collectivist than ants given the level of cooperation of our entire species on a planetary level.
How high are you right now?
freedom is a meme anyway
>You're not some solitary tiger that is self-sufficient for everything except breeding, you're a creature that would die the moment your peers stop delivering you food and water
Depending on other people is one thing. Other people having power over you, and being able to dictate how you run your life (and who you can depend on, or not depend on) is quite another.
If I can't grow all my own food, I can work for wages and buy my food at one of a number of grocery stores. Or I can go to a restaurant. That doesn't give a government the right to say "Obey us, or you starve", which is whats going on when states demand total insight into internet communications, and attempt to deny you the right to communicate in a way that they can't read.
Big Brother isn't a god, it's a guard dog. It bites everything it's been told to bite and only spares those it's master explicitly commands it to.
Prisons and fines aren't for rehabilitation, they're just punishments.
> Depending on other people is one thing. Other people having power over you, and being able to dictate how you run your life (and who you can depend on, or not depend on) is quite another.
It actually isn’t, as soon as you depend on someone to get something you want coercion is possible.
> If I can't grow all my own food, I can work for wages and buy my food at one of a number of grocery stores. Or I can go to a restaurant. That doesn't give a government the right to say "Obey us, or you starve", which is whats going on when states demand total insight into internet communications, and attempt to deny you the right to communicate in a way that they can't read.
Rights are just codified might. Anyone who had the power to say ‘cooperate or I take so and so away from you’ thereby has the ‘right’. A right is just a privilege granted by the powers that be.
Of course if enough people form a coalition that creates a powerful enough bargaining position then their might may get something done.
But I wouldn’t count on Joe Sixpack, he has too little to hide to draw a line in the sand here.
>It actually isn’t, as soon as you depend on someone to get something you want coercion is possible.
Only if you have no other options to satisfy the dependency.
>Rights are just codified might.
So if I shoot you, take your shit, and get away with it, then thats well and good because I was able to?
> Only if you have no other options to satisfy the dependency.
True, but a lot of things are monopolised by the state.
> So if I shoot you, take your shit, and get away with it, then thats well and good because I was able to?
Well I wouldn’t like it, but in reality that’s the way it goes.
Which is one of the reasons why it is not in the interest of the collective that accepts the law to give the individual the freedom to get away with breaking it. Most people value security over freedom because freedom comes with the risk to falling prey to other people’s freedom to get away with things.
>Physical
Get master locks, change your locks every now and again, hide your computers in some secret area underground.
>Hardware backdoors
Build your own PC and take it apart, alongside your mouse and keyboard every Friday
>OS
Make your own using components from other OS's that you have auditted
>Software/Browser
M A K E Y O U R O W N
>ISP tracking
VPN
ibm POWER PC cpu though
Yeah ok but what are you gonna be doing that the NSA will give a shit even if they do have the data? Does the NSA have a habit of randomly outing pervs?
moving the goalposts a bit but thats fine and its honestly a personal decision to decide whether or not you care. they don't have a habit of outing pervs right now. will that change in the future? who knows, but thats whats so scary about it and most people on here would err on the side of caution. I also don't want this to be a political/ethical discussion but I will say that what happens when the NSA decides to take a more proactive stance on crime/"crime". As in they use their algorithms to make predictions about a persons behavior. arresting people before a crime is even committed.
If i can do relatively menial task to hide what I do on the internet then why wouldn't I.
>speakerfags cucked AGAIN
lol
>let them spy
>make sure every point of data makes you look like the most normalfag pleb in existence
the best way to hide might be in the sea of data, not outside of it. if they can't single you out in the first place they can never target you with their actually advanced stuff.
or just live in a van always moving leeching off wireless data. I don't think they've caught anyone who did that, but then there are probably close to no people doing that because you would have to be the kind of autist they wouldn't be interested in.
99.99999999% of people they get are just fucking stupid, they slipped up using social media or something. they don't target individuals unless they're part of something bigger, and even then they're really just looking closer. I mean what is the point of installing spooky USB drives if achmed is living in a cave somewhere you will never reach? most of the stuff people on Sup Forums talk about in terms of NSA capability is for espionage against states and business, and even then most of it is just working prototypes. sadly most poeple can be done in by just observing their stupidity over a long enough period of time. even Sup Forums can and has done so.
they're probably more invested in data analytics now. which is scary in itself because then hiding in obscurity would become much harder. that's when it stops being the scary guys in the van and becomes 1984/minority report level.
> sadly most poeple can be done in by just observing their stupidity over a long enough period of time. even Sup Forums can and has done so.
Pls elaborate
no
years, maybe decades. they don't have to store every byte.
Just get a computer that will stay always offline, put it in a faraday cage and hide it somewhere. Nothing connected to any kind of network can be secure. Use common sense, ask yourself what is needed to have a backdoor in a system and figure out a way to prevent it.
Yeah, it is. Most people are not viable targets for NSA resources. They collect data in a blanket manner, sure, but none of it is usefully correlated into a profile until your make yourself of interest to the agency. Ironically, people will make attempts to to be invisible, but their attempts are usually shallow, such as not using proprietary software, or turning off telemetry, but this mostly doesn't affect the NSA's ability to look at you, and if they do look at you, you've elevated your conspicuousness by one grade. The trick to hiding is to do so in plain sight. Keep public profiles that would pass inspection. Use windows. Use Facebook. Use Google. In the case that you need to do something with a high level of privacy, deploy secure practices with specific intent.
You want us to die from internal bleeding?
Look at the nsa ant catalog if you dare. Goes far beyond that. Not to mention your smart tvs
This is the great contradiction isn't it
> If america wasn't doing anything wrong why would it need the NSA to defend itself in the first place?
Are you retarded? Even nsa admitted they collect too much data and that all it does is makes it harder to find real threats
Considering every spoken since dawn of humanity is 5 hexabytes and they built a facility in Utah that's close to 8hex there's no way to analyze it properly. There's just so much data being collected
>so why not?
Are you deaf or something? My PC sounds like a fucking gas generator with fans at 100%
Id only run mine at 100% unless there was some other auxiliary sound that would nullify the sound of the PC
That and you are tracking an exponentially higher rate of dust inside your system.
>So if I shoot you, take your shit, and get away with it, then thats well and good because I was able to?
Things worked that way in Middle Ages and before, isn't it? Wasn't this Oedipus who killed a stranger just because he was annoyed?
I shouldn't post this, because they know who I am, but I will disclose this much. Here are the 3 rules of computer security given to me by a colleague at NSA, not bullshitting one bit.
1) Don't own a computer.
2) If you do own a computer, don't turn it on.
3) If you do turn it on, don't use it.
Best advice ever given.
>fallacy
Sorting capabilities will, and have improved.
...