Why the fuck are chipped credit cards so slow? I used to swipe and it would be done in 3 seconds, now I'm waiting 5-15 seconds for the fucking terminal to process the thing before it starts beeping at me like a banshee telling me to remove the card.
Are chips just bad tech? Are the banks cheap and using shitty chips or something?
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I used a fast one over the weekend at like CVS or something and was very impressed
Chip is not even secure either.
If a network is compromised, you will still be fucked if you use magnetic strip or chip.
Then people can also scan your card through your paints and steal all your money.
>what is end to end encryption
Bullshit.
Chip has problems but replay attacks are not one of them (whereas that does work for magswipe).
There are severe implementation flaws in EMV that allow criminals to make fake charges that look real to the bank, but it's not as trivial as having network access:
cl.cam.ac.uk
>EMV, also known as"\Chip and PIN", is the leading system for card payments world-wide
>[...]
>We have discovered that some EMV implementers have merely used counters, timestamps or home-grown algorithms to supply this number. This exposes them to a \pre-play" attack which is indistinguishable from card cloning from the standpoint of the logs available to the card-issuing bank, and can be carried out even if it is impossible to clone a card physically (in the sense of extracting the key material and loading it into another card). Card cloning is the very type of fraud that EMV was supposed to prevent.
>[...]
>We found flaws in widely-used ATMs from the largest manufacturers. We can now explain at least some of the increasing number of frauds in which victims are refused refunds by banks which claim that EMV cards cannot be cloned and that a customer involved in a dispute must therefore be mistaken or complicit. Pre-play attacks may also be carried out by malware in an ATM or POS terminal, or by a man-in-the-middle between the terminal and the acquirer. We explore the design and implementation mistakes that enabled the flaw to evade detection until now: shortcomings of the EMV specification, of the EMV kernel certification process, of implementation testing, formal analysis, or monitoring customer complaints.
Costco is decent too, it's like 2-3 seconds to authorize and no signature required if under $200.
ameritards discovering chip cards, what year is it ? 1992?
Could someone explain why some people chip 3 times then swipe right after? Does the company get a charge back for that?
I mean we didn't get them for awhile
Sim cards are only as far as the network they connect to. Maybe if burgers didn't have third world tier cellular infrastructure
We didn't discover it, we just never used it because it's shit. But now a bunch of millennial hippy liberal faggits are jacking off "muh chip" because they think new technology is inherently better, meanwhile they're standing at the register for like 3 minutes waiting on the chip and then sometimes still having to pin or sign.
>Bullshit
It's a Sup Forums classic. It triggers the americans.
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>be europoor
>every single piece of technology cost 35% more
Small price to pay for liveable wages, free health care and free education as well as five weeks paid vacation.
>poor
>can afford to pay more due to import tariffs
What?
Also, Trump wants to have tariffs too, you know.
>The price of 500 gr (1 lb.) of boneless chicken breast in London is £4.13. This average is based on 82 price points.
Imagine a world where everything was cheap and you could afford your own personal health care and education and 5 weeks of vacation. We call that place America.
I always wonder the same thing when these threads pop up.
I'm in America and all the stores that I go to are very fast to do chip transactions.
> We didn't discover it, we just never used it because it's shit.
Assuming this isn't bait: you got it the wrong way around. It takes about 1.5 seconds for me to check out my lunch using contactless here in bongland, and this is because we actually adopted the system and got the infrastructure for it working properly.
>We didn't discover it, we just never used it because it's shit.
yeah, like the metric system or universal healthcare. ameritards pretending they're special....
> Using a credit card
Pay cash, faggots.
We aren't talking about contactless payments. Yeah if I use NFC it's fast as fuck but that's not the topic.
I don't use cash.
“free”
Chip takes about 1 extra second to actually type it in
>median US salary is $44,000
>literal millions of people can't afford health care
>US tech companies literally import thousands of pajeets every year because US workers are uneducated and incompetent
>worker rights are non-existent and Trump just made everything a little worse
>less social mobility now than 100 years ago
>wages not adjusted for inflation
The US of A is a literal hellhole unless you're the top 10%.
it's 7,50€ / kg (3.375€ /lb) in France, with 30% sales taxe included lol brexiters
That America still uses signatures for credit cards in any form is ridiculous.
>highest healthcare costs on the planet
>majority of ameriwageslaves rely on their owners to give them health insurance
lmao
I pay 27% taxes on my income. That's less than most Americans.
Many american employers still pay their employees in cheques, which is why they still call it "pay check" (and payment for stuff like rent is usually done with cheques)
Chicken breast cost $1.75 here and $3 gets you nice 93/7 ground beef in Costco.
>"Education"
>"Afford"
You what mate?
Literally did not happen all week. I know I was bumping note8 threads and this never came up.
Stupid attentionwhore animefags.
>standing at the register for like 3 minutes waiting on the chip
What kind of a mud hut village are we talking about? It takes a second. If it takes eight seconds the cashier apologizes how it has been very slow today. It has been like this for years. Saying it takes 3 minutes sounds as crazy as saying you don't have running water. Maybe you don't.
The people who don't work can't afford shit obviously. $44k/yr is easy living in America. The difference, we don't let our working class get dragged down by the lazy unemployed. Well, we do to a degree, but not nearly as badly as if we had all that socialism shit. If you think it's so bad already, how would taking money away from the earners (who in your uneducated already don't earn enough) and giving it away be better? Remember that throughout all this, the top 10% would remain completely unfazed, and any reduction in their income would only result in increasing the price of goods, making everything more expensive for all the people who now have less money.
It's a classic Sup Forums thread, and you know it. It's on par with 1.7%, woodscrews and fucking kettle posting.
>bunch of millennial hippy liberal faggits
>EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS LIBRULS
>MILENIULS
>HIPPIES
Tone down your fucking sperg output you retarded fuck. What the hell does politics and liberals have to do with fucking upgraded card payment mechanisms. Stop reaching so hard.
More than 1 decade later Americans still cannot into shit Europe has had for like 12 years.
>If you think it's so bad already, how would taking money away from the earners (who in your uneducated already don't earn enough) and giving it away be better?
I didn't say "increase taxes on everyone", I'm saying that eliminating social mobility is a bad thing. There are families in the US right now where both parents work full time jobs, and they still don't manage to make ends meet.
Most Americans do NOT have a college degree and most workers in high-paying jobs are now foreign or visa workers because of this.
Social mobility is good, it provides an incentive to work harder to better your life.
You kidding, right? The only thing that has kept up with income in burgerstan are consumer goods. Health and education costs have risen above inflation, you pay more for education and healthcare per capita than any other developed nation.
Why do Europeans have such an inferiority complex against Americans?
The chip block chain is getting too large, invest in my fork
Also, see . I pay a lower tax rate than most Americans and yet I receive a lot more.
Yeah, we don't into shit that sucks. Only liberal millennials think it's better because they, like I said earlier if you could read, think all newer technology is inherently better. They're the only ones who want it and they don't even know what the difference is but ooohh it's new and shiny I want it. They're also anti-America so they like that it's a thing other counties use that we don't. They'd repaint all the roads tomorrow if they could, just to make us all drive on the other side of the road.
Eat shit, lefty.
Any schmuck can steal magswipe data. SIM cards might not be infallible but it's not something you can steal with backyard equipment. Only in the heads of obese murricans mag stripes are better.
"Education" hasn't become more expensive though, liberal brainwashing institutions known as "universities" are what's become more expensive. You can still get a useful trade school education for very cheap and start working immediately. Isn't it ironic that the liberals are crying about "education fees" when the ones charging the exorbitant fees ARE the liberals? And the ones charging so much for health care are the Jew doctors?
what the fuck? are chips new somewhere in the world?
the hot shit is just hovering your card over the thingy and instantly pay
We actually have consumer protection here.
>You can still get a useful trade school education for very cheap and start working immediately
muh coding boot camps
history lesson
>americans create credit cards, first networked one (Diners club) that didn't belong to a single store in 1950
>1970: IBM invents the magnetic stripe to deter credit card fraud
>throughout the 90s, credit card companies mobilize the US to adopt online transaction processing via modem; the card info is sent to the network in real time and an approval/denial is issued before the sale is completewd
>from an infrastructure perspective (reliable processing/phone lines) and fraud detection, europe is far less robust. issuing chips and requiring PINs secures the transactions which are submitted in bulk offline
>move to the 2000s
>PC hardware has become commoditized. increasing ecommerce makes the knowledge transfer on how to clone magswipes and the hardware to do so at home far more accessible
>europe processes more transactions online and has been chip enabled since the 90s
>meanwhile, most US terminals just dump the info on the magnetic swipe as keystrokes and cannot handle the rate
>swipe fees (fees paid by merchants for accepting a card) are an order of magnitude higher in the US for most of europe. this means that it's cheaper for banks to pay for the fraud then upgrade their shit to chip
>fast forward to the 2010s
>retailers are getting breached, millions of account numbers stolen
>fraudsters get more sophisticated, ecommerce and the growth of gift cards makes it easier for someone to launder the money out of fake card numbers and not get caught
>it's finally cheaper for the banks to support chips than it is to pay for the fraud
>everyone sets deadlines to switch to chip.
>If the retailer doesn't support chips but the card has one, they now pay for the fraud after certain dates.
>October 2015 for most merchants.
>October 2017 for gas pumps (later postponed further). They are harder to retrofit with chip hardware.
>No deadline for ATMs.
>the deadline looms... and it's a total clusterfuck.
I don't get it, Millenials have the power to change the american banking system even though they're lazy liberals?
It's called a blue collar job. I know you don't know what those are because you just import polish guys and Muslims to do them for you, but they make up the backbone of this country. It'd blow your mind to learn what some plumbers here make. More than any Nancy in an office crunching numbers all day, for damn sure.
At least I hope so, but something tells me that guy is talking about shit like fixing acs and elder nurse care.
I'll pay you 1 btc to delete this post.
>I know you don't know what those are because you just import polish guys and Muslims to do them for you
Ouch, that hit too close to home.
Yes, and just like Sup Forums it will be the same pics you've seen for the past few years...
This sounds bad until you realize that this is how finance has operated since the beginning of the Information Age.
Shit's a constantly outdated clusterfuck because getting everyone on the same page is ridiculously hard. ACH is still a thing, for fuck's sake.
I still don't get why people call universities liberal brainwashing places.
I never in my 4 years of college got told any sort of politics or lefty shit.
Is it because it was chemistry and not some made up degree?
security>convenience
yes, liberal arts is a cesspool. STEM and hard sciences are fine
>It's called a blue collar job
Okay then,
>muh primary and secondary industry
then.
The point with social mobility is that everyone should have a shot at moving upwards, the so-called equal opportunity. The son of a plumber and a nurse should have the opportunity to work hard and become a lawyer, and not have his bloodline forever destined to work a specific trade, like in the middle ages, where people even got named after their trades (Smith, Tatcher, etc).
>the banks discover that the switch isn't as easy as they thought.
>as it turns out, there aren't THAT many suppliers of chips for cards, but there are 1.2 billion cards in circulation that need to be replaced.
>most aren't replaced by the october 2015 deadline with chipped replacements coming to cardholders sometime later.
>meanwhile retailers postpone their expensive card reader upgrade until the last minute. then they all rush.
>this means Verifone, Ingenico, et al can't supply the card readers fast enough for retailers to get them in on time.
>even for those that do eventually get them, they discover something horrifying.
>point of sale software on older versions in the American market doesn't support the complex back and forth negotiation of EMV.
>Newer versions of cash register POS software do, but you have to upgrade them... which costs money and takes time. Then you have to test the changes... costs money and take time. Then deploy the new version... costs money and takes time. This all assumes that you don't have to license an OS upgrade to run the new POS software, and also assumes that your hardware will run the new OS (more money and time).
>most stores process credit card transactions through the POS instead of on a standalone terminal with a separate receipt. so now they have these shiny new card readers with 6-7" color touchscreens and chip slots, but they CAN'T process the chip.
>gas station owners find the same problem; some newer pumps have expensive chip retrofits in short supply, while older pump models have no ability to retrofit chip
>ATM owners find the same problem.
So where does that leave you in the US at this point.
>by 2018, most of the largest retailers in the US have upgraded to chip acceptance.
>smaller retailers that process on a standalone card reader/PIN pad have largely upgraded because they just had to swap the receipt.
>most restaurants and small to medium stores that use integrated points of sale are still swipe
First thing I thought, after he is defending paying more for everything...
The vast majority of people doing a degree in the US do some sort of liberal art at a liberal arts college/university. So "college" is practically synonymous with declaring that there are 18 different pronouns and safe-spaces.
because anti-intellectualism feels good mang
millions of lazy idiots can scream in numbers, it's not that hard to figure out...
Humanities are dominated by left wing literature, but that happens everywhere. They also have a limited demand for workers which is why they're also cheaper, and cheap is what most americans can afford, being sold the illusion of a better career as long as you have any college degree.
>intellectualism
>Millenials have the power to change the american banking system
Friendly reminder that ~35-45% of all bills that pass in congress are pushed through by corporate-backed lobbyists.
here
What else...
1) Americans value convenience tremendously. Our debit cards have PIN, but our credit cards are almost entirely signature. Chips on chip-and-sig cards prevent card cloning and mass harvesting the track data like what happened at Home Depot, Target, etc, but not a stolen physical card. Our banks decided that a lot of Americans are lazy and would switch to another card as they thought entering a PIN was inconvenient.
2) Contactless is basically nowhere. Banks started in 2004 with the PayPass/Paywave shit and cheaped out. They used chips that were cloneable wirelessly. They later switched to secure chips with challenge/response, but magnetic swipe readers couldn't process the more secure part of that, and it became chicken and egg (consumers didn't want the cards with chips because they thought they were insecure and virtually nowhere accepted it, places didn't want to spend extra on the contactless readers if nobody was going to tap).
3) A lot of stores deliberately disable NFC or don't bother to keep it working because they would prefer people use apps like Walmart Pay or CVS Pay. A direct debit from a bank account is basically free, whereas contactless rates are 2-4% of transaction (with some exceptions like vending machines).
ACH is still how most americans pay bills and get paychecks, eChecking for 21st century basically allowed stores and financial institutions to convert paper checks to ACH.
see
>muh social mobility
Take your disgusting CLASS WARFARE back to whatever communist hellhole you crawled out from.
What country? You also have to keep in mind that the US has lower taxes or no taxes on some things that are often taxed in European countries.
Sales tax in the US is usually 6% or less and under 10% pretty much everywhere, certain states have none. 20% VAT is pretty common in most of Europe.
Gas taxes are a lot lower in the US than most of Europe, as well as taxes relating to automobile related things (purchase, registration, etc.)
lawyers for the most part are fucking scum
Pretty much every employer has switched to direct deposit now, you pretty much have to work for a small business with less than 50 people to not have a direct deposit (or refuse to enroll in it).
america is an embarassment
Class mobility is literally a capitalist ideology. Man you're really fucking stupid.
kk pajeet
good goy
RFID all the way
>What country?
Norway. I should mention that for my income, I'm technically in a higher tax bracket, but since I have a mortgage I can deduct this from my taxes. It should be mentioned here that unlike most of Europe (and even the rest of the world), we have a high number of home owners (people owning their own houses instead of renting, due to favourable tax deductions on property ownership for housing).
>Sales tax in the US is usually 6% or less and under 10% pretty much everywhere, certain states have none. 20% VAT is pretty common in most of Europe.
We don't have sales taxes, VAT is usually between 10-25% depending on what you buy. On food, it's ~10%.
>Gas taxes are a lot lower in the US than most of Europe, as well as taxes relating to automobile related things (purchase, registration, etc.)
Gas prices are artificially inflated here, as well as road tolls. Import tariffs on cars are also massive. This is to incentivise low-emission cars and zero-emission/hydro/electric cars (which are exempted from a bunch of taxes and fees), so Norway has the highest rate Tesla car per capita.
Still, I'm 31 years old and I don't own a car as public transport is the preferred mode of transportation in the city. If I ever need a car, I just take a bus to my parents' and borrow theirs.
That's not the point though.
I know, but the fact that some people still do it is mind blowing to me where direct deposit is virtually the only way of paying employees since the late 80s.
The effective tax on the average American household is on par with most European countries, around 30%. The reason you get much less for what you pay is that american corporations barely pay any taxes (and they're getting another tax relief so good job on that) while doing insane shit like running two wars with deficits.
Actually, corporation taxes in the US was 35% until Trump's recent tax reform, which were among the highest in the world.
In Norway, corporation tax is between 20 and 22%.
Shareholders, however, are taxed much more lax on profits.
It very much is the point. There is no shame to be had in being a plumber over a lawyer you judge mental asshole
"chicken"
>t.
Nobody in America pays that much. You have several tax loops inside the US (just look at Delaware) to cheat at the margins. Across OECD countries corporate tax accounts for 20% of GDP on average, in the US it's less than 1% even before Trump's tax reform. Corporations in the US pay nothing.
Yeah, that's nothing compared to the US.
My highest tax bracket would be 28% federal and 6.65% New York state for 34.65% effective.
But as a single filer, with no home, the standard (non-itemized) deduction, and no real special breaks, my effective federal income tax was only about 20%.
Then you have sales tax. In the US there is no federal sales tax, most states don't tax non-prepared food (grocery items) at all.
On stuff that is taxed, it's only 7.5% state sales tax with no VAT. If you purchase something online and the seller does not have any business relationship/physical location in your state, then you pay NO sales tax at the time of purchase. Amazon has warehouses in New York but tons of items are sold at the same price "Fulfilled by Amazon", where technically John Smith Inc. sold you that toothpaste but it's fulfilled from the bin at the Amazon warehouse and shipping speed/benefits of Amazon shipping applies. You are supposed to itemize this on your tax return in most states but 96% of people enter nothing in this field and it's totally unenforced.
I wasn't talking about shame, you moronic imbecile. I was talking about social mobility, as in: people can be what they want as long as they put in some effort. It should not matter what class you come from, education should be for all. Equal opportunity.
In the US, class mobility is less now than it was 100 years ago, and that even accounts for fucking segregation and Jim Crow laws.
>tfw US is finally getting chip and pin when we moved to paywave/contactless years ago.
Australia is like 20 years in front of US when it comes to banking technology, it's fucking weird AF.
Whatever you say you dumb yuropoor
Thanks for the info, I did not know.
>But as a single filer, with no home, the standard (non-itemized) deduction, and no real special breaks, my effective federal income tax was only about 20%.
I see, yeah, that's a lot less than me considering that I also have a considerable debt on my apartment.
I just use Android pay
Enjoy being a plumber the rest of your life, you good goy.
Plumbers get paid quite a bit...
Enjoy your law school debt
What exactly are you defending? That our life chances should be determined by what our parents do rather than our individual talents? That's the opposite what the american dream is about so it's weird that you're calling that leftist ideology.
>between $29k and $78k
payscale.com
Not that much, though.
I don't have debt, I come from an affluent family. Class immobility is great for people like me. :^)
I didn’t say leftist anything anywhere buddy. The Norwegian retard is flat out wrong. There is plenty of mobility in America, you just have to be good at what you do