Arch has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible. Arch has *never* been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled at least when there's no non-bloat related cost, feature-packed/complex GNU tools, nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages, etc.
>pacman is fast but not safe, it tends to break shit and config protection is implemented in a terrible way >there is no official process to verify that a package is stable within the distro, in other distros a lot of packages are in a testing repo despite that specific package's developer claiming it to be stable on its own, because it might not be stable within the environment of a specific distro >a lot of AUR packages pull from upstream, which means they could be very unstable >(arch vs gentoo related) arch users complain about muh compile time when it comes to gentoo, while in fact they compile a lot of AUR packages themselves, namely the *-git packages that pull the source from a git repo >but it gets even better: they only compile a handful of packages, and those not being libraries mostly, the self-compiled packages get linked against precompiled libraries from a different setup (e.g. different optimization levels), which can then cause even more instability because it's a clusterfuck of unequal shit >arch uses (((systemd))) and switching to something else is hard >apparently the vim package on arch used to pull in X, so if you wanted to have a fancy terminal text editor on a headless server, you would've had to install a shit ton of GUI stuff you'd never need nor use >maintainer told the guy who complained to just symlink vi to vim (vi is inferior)
TL;DR: Despite its """minimal""" install state, Arch is actually very bloated.
Lucas Taylor
Minimalism rant:
The thing for me when it come to this is that I'm kinda disgusted by the amount of bloat in popular applications and environments.
Let's take the picture viewer as an example. What does it do? That's right! It views pictures! We have also seen picture viewers that can run with very tiny amounts of ram, and do their job pretty well. Why then should we be using a picture viewer that does the exact same practical thing as this minimal picture viewer, but is 10+ times heavier?
I've heard this a lot, the whole "lel just get a newer computer grandpa!" I'd like to let you know that I use minimal setups both on a 2012 Fagbook Pro, and a Xeon workstation being used as a desktop. Both of these have 16+ GB of memory. What you have to understand is that just because we have the resources, doesn't mean it's right to use them to the limit. Why should we artificially use more resources for the same tasks just because we have the capability to do it. That's retarded. At that point we should just rewrite the kernel in electron because clearly anyone who has a problem with that just needs to download more wam.
Another key component for me is that achieving a high level of minimalism often involves switching to a vey terminal-heavy lifestyle. This is good as it provides a universal interface. The interface used to shitpost, consume content, and whatnot, is the same interface that would be used when administering a server, when configuring my NAS, when working with Amazon EC2 installations, etc.
Why do you hate keeping things simple? Why do you want things to use more resources than they have to to complete their function?
TL;DR: /minimalism/ is a very logical way of doing things, and provides a universal interface.
Jonathan Green
General Linux question I have to be on wireless and I've always had problems with wireless adapters and Linux Any way around this problem? Using a Netgear A7000 right now
Nolan Ortiz
Is it a driver issue? Generally you want Atheros wifi cards that use the ath9k or ath9k_htc driver. Those will work on anything, even the most freetard of kernels.
Thanks. I found through that wikipedia page the driver I need. Most likely going to run try to run Debian
Isaiah Cox
I used to run debian. It was comfy. If you want to be /minimal/, read this, particularly the part about reconfiguring APT to not install extra stuff. wiki.debian.org/ReduceDebian
Jackson Gomez
I'm not good enough with linux to be /minimal/ Wish I was though
Matthew Bailey
Thats ok. Everyone starts somewhere. Are you going to use the netinstall? If you want a DE, XFCE I think is one of the lightest.
Kevin Green
I was going to CD install unless netinstall is better. Tell you the truth, I don't know much about linux. I just messed around with Debian a little years ago and liked it. I just want to get away from Windows because my i7 975 asus P6T mobo crashes with Windows 10 more times than I want.
Nathan Mitchell
Ok then, just CD install. Honestly you should hang out in the regular GNU/Linux thread. Probably much better if you're super new. Although I do highly recommend XFCE. It's probably the most /minimal/ thing to use that's still a full, complete desktop.
Also, I like you! ^.^
Benjamin Harris
Oh sorry, I've been drinking so my attention to finding other threads is a bit low. Can you please tell me at least what version I should download? There are 7 of them and I think I should either get AMD64 or ARM64. Thanks ^.^
Blake Perez
>AMD64 or ARM64 AMD64 is what you want. ARM64 is for ARM devices (Raspberry Pi, Tablets, etc)
you're welcome!
Jacob Rodriguez
Thanks! Linux is hard, but at least it's not shit like Windows!
Dylan Bennett
why does puppy not make this list? It seems pretty minimalist to my eye.
Anthony Harris
Hmm.. I heard it was supposed to be light or something, but from their site, It seems to be based off Ubuntu? and sometimes Slackware?
Anyone want to weigh in on this one?
Nicholas Sanders
You'll get used to it, then it won't be hard anymore.
Thomas Clark
Is there a way to check optional dependencies in Void?
I'm not familiar with xbps
Brody Jenkins
The newer versions are binary-compatible with Ubuntu or Slackware and are fatter than the older 4.2.1, but are still pretty light. You can also roll your own Puppy with the build system called Woof and make it leaner/fatter as you wish The entire distro can run in memory with 512MB of RAM.
Charles Cox
Whenever I open something like a browser using a minimal window manager, it opens it in another window but it's still attached to the original terminal and I can't use that terminal. What am I doing wrong here?
Gabriel Evans
my wife chino is so cute
Tyler Morales
Calm Window Manager a best!
Noah Powell
Add ' &' to the end of your command without quotes, this should detach your task from the terminal
Leo Kelly
Is that just part of using a window manager on its own or is it a result of me setting something up incorrectly?
Asher Gonzalez
you arent supposed to open things from a terminal, even dwm has dmenu
Gavin Bennett
AFAIK this is the case on any wm/de, since opening a program in a terminal means "launch this program and print its output here", much like if you were to execute something like ls. Launching a program conventionally just doesn't tether it to anything in particular
Brody Walker
>not even tiling >marketed for heavy keyboard use >is so virgin it even gives you a menu saying "do you want to use another window manager?"
This is insecure: the window manager
Jordan Turner
maybe I just haven't been looking closely enough, I didn't know there was a more conventional way of opening it. I'll look closer, thanks m8s. Cheers.
Austin Gomez
It's the wall of separation. Either you give up and eat shit or you get over it and new, beautiful, SSH-terminal-filled horizons open up to you.
If I can recommend a step from XFCE, look at i3. Probably not much use for you right now, but know that with APT, you're swimming in an ocean of choices.
Nathan Bennett
ROFI is another option (plsnoh8imnewtominimalism), I use it.
Aiden Mitchell
Can NixOS be minimal? Because it can be configured to run on a relatively small footprint and also use a minimalist tiling window manager. But its package manager and store don't function like a conventional package manager.
Cameron Reyes
I can also recommend i3. I have XFCE + i3 installed on my T420. Most of the time I use i3.
Cooper Evans
You're good senpai, I'll give it a look. Honestly I'm new to it too, I just jumped in too quick and hit some walls.
Caleb Myers
Heh, walls. Were there any windows? If not, keep hitting it and you'll break through to the penguin side :-)
Cameron Howard
Whats the most /minimal/ native terminal for this? I want to run Sway (Wayland version of i3) at some point.
Found something that kinda works, copied ARC for an okay gtk 3 theme, and set misc-fixed as my font.
Leo Nelson
Hi, what browser are you using? I can't find one that would support unicode-based Vim-like movement keys (I moved from hjkl to jklů and the ů is pure trouble in browsers). Anyone got a nice browser like that? I don't mind terminal browsers, as long as I can wrap my head around it.
Kayden Harris
Anyone?
Luke Carter
Normal chromium on arch. Probably doesn't help.
Michael Gutierrez
Well there's a few things you could try >Qutebrowser >Firefox with whatever vim extension they have now. >Palememe with Pentadactyl
If you want a terminal browser, the best one in my experience is w3m, but prepare for no javascript support (only useful for reading text on sites. can't shitpost on it, can't log in to accounts, etc.)
Christian Kelly
>systemd >minimal
Connor Turner
Yeah, that's why I put GNU GuixSD in the OP. It uses GNU Shepherd.
Michael Parker
This thread is bloat and deprecated.
Jacob Nguyen
no!
Jaxson Cox
There is nothing you discuss here that cannot be discussed in /fglt/, You simply want to be "that guy that makes new generals" for the sake of it.
>inb4 but /fglt/ is for noooooobs
m8 plenty of us discuss advanced things in there, just because sometimes some bumbling newbie comes along does not mean you can't talk about whatever GNU/Linux related thing.
Xavier Russell
>Firefox I'm on that now, it's fucking bloated as shit and 5+ tabs make my fan scream. >Qutebrowser Debian Stretch, trying to install it, but Python3 isn't installed somehow, dunno, will look into that >Palememe Might try that one.
Joseph Miller
fuck off bloatcunt /faggotgeneral/'s full of noobs who're ok with babby's first gooey tools and unironically support gnome-tier "engineering" decisions
Ryder Morris
>muh noobs Called it.
William Parker
both of you are apes kek this general certainly has a place, fglt would not like people encouraging minimalism. but this general is also apparently a haven for 14 year olds who like the "cunt" word. why don't you both just relax and talk about minimalism.
Julian James
problem's not the noobs problem's the bloatfags
Brandon Sullivan
>fglt would not like people encouraging minimalism.
Says you
You make it sound like you're some sort of marginalized group or something, give me a break. You can talk about whatever you like in /fglt as long as it's GNU/Linux related.
Andrew Cooper
So just talk about your minimalist software and don't interact with muh bloatfags
Problem solved
Luis Scott
fglt is full of beginners and people who recommend ubuntu and gnome to those beginners. minimalism would be shrugged off instantly.
Ryan Price
Except it isn't What is there to shrug off. Just start a conversation and people will respond. Most of the minimalist recommendations I've gotten have been from there, and they've helped me troubleshoot problems I've had in my st config along many other things.
Juan Green
>so just talk about your topic and don't interact with people talking about other topics why have threads at all then might as well have a single mega-thread and discuss everything there, huh? can't think of a possible downside to that
Eli Bailey
The thread is for GNU/Linux related topics That's already niche on its own, and it isn't very fast at all.
"muh minimalism in gnu/linux" fits perfectly inside a GNU/Linux general and would not even make the thread that much faster.
Read:
Hudson Barnes
What about bspwm?
James Rogers
jesus christ you're still pushing this meme thread? this is sad
Isaiah Russell
never give up op this thread matters, and provides minimalism resources that no other thread does just stop being an ape
Liam Evans
the guy who benchmarked these didn't include it because you also have to factor in the keybinding daemon. Someone in the comments said the WM itself (not including the daemon) used about 1.1.
Levi Flores
yes i am! Thank you! You're nice. I loved this thread when the original guy was making them, so i'm continuing it. I even added a new distro and a new reason to the OP, and took out Arch.
Also, why am I an ape? you're silly!
Jayden James
>I even added a new distro and a new reason to the OP, and took out Arch. What a huge contribution to the human race you've made
Eli Sanders
thanks
Josiah James
lmao
Joseph Rivera
the gnu philosophy is the opposite of minimalism, how the fuck can a distro like guixsd even make it to this list? absolutely retarded.. also, include openbsd on your list even though it's not jewish gnu trashware
Zachary Bennett
>loved this thread when the original guy was making them, so i'm continuing it thanks for doing it m8
Carter Nguyen
I'm still around. But doing different things.
Aiden Bailey
>doing different "things" >psychologist pic coke you mean doing coke, right?
Ayden Sanchez
This carl jung stuff is really enlightening. Oh and its nice to see my general isn't dead. But im moving on to different things
>the gnu philosophy is the opposite of minimalism, how the fuck can a distro like guixsd even make it to this list would you rather have another systemd distro? I put it in because it is free of poetteringware. You're welcome!
Brody Thompson
Hi daddy. I'll keep the general alive for you.
Brayden Barnes
>also, include openbsd no. I may put Slackware though.
Carter Wright
Who gives a shit about a few megs of RAM on a desktop/laptop?
Levi Scott
Autistic people aka, this general.
Grayson Martin
>pacman is fast but not safe, it tends to break shit and config protection is implemented in a terrible way >there is no official process to verify that a package is stable within the distro, in other distros a lot of packages are in a testing repo despite that specific package's developer claiming it to be stable on its own, because it might not be stable within the environment of a specific distro >a lot of AUR packages pull from upstream, which means they could be very unstable >(arch vs gentoo related) arch users complain about muh compile time when it comes to gentoo, while in fact they compile a lot of AUR packages themselves, namely the *-git packages that pull the source from a git repo >but it gets even better: they only compile a handful of packages, and those not being libraries mostly, the self-compiled packages get linked against precompiled libraries from a different setup (e.g. different optimization levels), which can then cause even more instability because it's a clusterfuck of unequal shit Okay, but this is meaningless in your "arch is not minimal" rant
>apparently the vim package on arch used to pull in X, so if you wanted to have a fancy terminal text editor on a headless server, you would've had to install a shit ton of GUI stuff you'd never need nor use >maintainer told the guy who complained to just symlink vi to vim (vi is inferior) No. The vim package in archlinux does not require X.
>TL;DR: Despite its """minimal""" install state, Arch is actually very bloated. Argue.
Xavier Sanchez
Don't worry faggy friend, you have my support ^_^
Landon Cooper
yeah, the arch pasta could use some debloating that entire greentext block is pointless but arch is still not minimal because it lacks package splitting
you failed to mention the most minimalist (albeit usable) distro: CRUX
Isaac Roberts
IRC: #Sup Forumsminimal on rizon
Angel Ward
minimalists
Alexander Turner
The truth is that despite the rants and it's egocentric user base, archlinux belongs to that list. Nowadays, installing what you want for a set of prebuilt packages is to be considered minimalist. A different kind of minimalism if you want, but still... minimal as in "you have what you want" and if you don't want systemd you do want another distro. Meme aside, bloat is something else. Let's be realistic.
Jackson Murphy
>archlinux belongs to that list even though that rant is 90% bullshit, it still doesn't >Nowadays, installing what you want for a set of prebuilt packages is to be considered minimalist no just because there's no GUI doesn't mean it's not bloated >you have what you want most people that care about minimalism don't want half the shit shoved down your throat by systemd and all that comes with it systemd is a complete clusterfuck why would a sane person want that garbage on his machine is beyond me no distro that uses systemd is can be called minimal
Jace Flores
Sup Forums, what WM should I install on my new arch linux?
Justin Bell
Yeah, the only reason why I left Debian in here is because it splits packages more than Arch, and I thought leaving a systemd distro there would make it a good option for anyone who might not yet be ready to use a completely different init. Honestly I should just replace it with Devuan, but afaik, Devuan is still hideously outdated. Even worse than Debian. Has Devuan gotten their shit together yet?
Austin Allen
>why would a sane person want that garbage on his machine is beyond me Because it won. All the systemd haters should have moved their ass as long ago, when we were still stuck with sysvinit. Now every fucking package that somewhat requires something complex has it as a dependency. Okay, those are not minimal pacakges... but still. It's too late now, systemd is the standard the facto init system (and, in fact, much more) for linux.
I don't have a minimal system, I use firefox and emacs and other "huge" softwares. I'm using gentoo so I could've used openrc, but I choose to use systemd instead of it because it's the sanest choice you can do. It will be harder and harder to use something else in the future and even if I do think openrc will live for very long time I accepted systemd as a winner and I'm just dealing with it.
>just because there's no GUI doesn't mean it's not bloated It's not about the gui, it's about the software it has when you finish the installation. If it's okay for you to use systemd, when you finish to install archlinux you have only the software you realistically want. Yeah... it has bash instead of mksh, glibc instead of musl and vim and some other stuff that you might consider "bloated", but they are the sanest choices if you're not totally autism.
Jaxson Howard
So, I am tired of bloatdistros like openSUSE, Ubuntu. What should I choose: Arch, Gentoo, or LFS? And what non-tiling (or tiling, not quite sure) WM or DE should I use for best experience?
Brayden Wood
LFS (compile the kernel yourself so you don't have unneeded drivers)
all repository-based package managers are bloated, use either slackware package manager or dpkg use Joes Window Mangager
