Wayland!!!

Wayland hype thread!

KDE! ^_^
>Plasma is KDE's flagship product, offering the most customizable desktop environment available. The KDE community has the driving goal of making it simple by default, and powerful when needed.
>Important change of policy: 5.12 is the last release which sees feature development in KWin on X11. With 5.13 onwards only new features relevant to Wayland are going to be added.
kde.org/products/
kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.11.95.php

Sway! OwO
>Sway is tiling Wayland compositor and a drop-in replacement for the i3 window manager for X11.
>We also maintain the wlroots project to provide a modular basis for Sway and other Wayland compositors to build upon, and we publish standards for interopable Wayland desktops.
swaywm.org/

GNOME! :(
>An easy and elegant way to use your computer, GNOME 3 is designed to put you in control and get things done.
>Many core X contributors are eager to see us move to the next generation display system - after all Wayland was born and raised in the X community, and has strong support there.
gnome.org/

Liri! UwU
>An OS and apps built with modern design and features
>We're leveraging the latest and greatest Linux technologies, including OSTree, Wayland, Qt 5, and much more.
liri.io/

Enlightenment! ^.^
>Enlightenment started out way back in 1996 as a project to build a Window Manager for X11. It has grown much more since then. Enlightenment still produces this Window Manager, but it has evolved to also cover Mobile, Wearable and TV UI requirements for projects such as Tizen as well as the traditional “desktop” UI.
>Work is currently underway to land a complete Wayland compositor (stand-alone, no X11 needed) into the master branch of Enlightenment. At this stage, we are undergoing heavy testing and resolving any issues.
enlightenment.org/
enlightenment.org/about-wayland

Other urls found in this thread:

github.com/libhybris/libhybris)
wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=gnome-326-x11way&num=1
archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/wayland/
archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/sway/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Gnome has crashed.

>Wayland enables features that are hard or impossible to support under X:

>input transformation
>transparent hardware overlays
>direct rendering
>isolating clients (sandboxing)
>makes it possible to reuse android drivers (github.com/libhybris/libhybris)
>per-crtc EGLSurfaces means repainting and swapping only the monitor where content changes
>smooth transition between composited desktop and fullscreen clients (no X unredirect flicker)
>eliminates lag between cursor and dragged windows (eg moving toplevels or dnd icons)
>better remote display
>...

wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland

From wikipedia:

"Wayland isolates the input and output of every window, achieving confidentiality, integrity and availability in both cases; the original X design lacks these important security features,[32][33][34] although some extensions have been developed trying to mitigate it.[35][36][37] Also, with the vast majority of the code running in the client, less code needs to run with root privileges, improving security.[32]"

How do I delete someone else's thread.

Could he have a protocol so if a window like a screen recorder/ reader of magnifier it just have to prompt the user for password (or store trusted programs so they don't have to ask every time) and by doing so it's granted the permission to see/interact with other windows?

Rawr x3 nuzzles how are you pounces on you you're so warm o3o notices you have a bulge o: someone's happy ;) nuzzles your necky wecky~ murr~ hehehe rubbies your bulgy wolgy you're so big :oooo rubbies more on your bulgy wolgy it doesn't stop growing ·///· kisses you and lickies your necky daddy likies (; nuzzles wuzzles I hope daddy really likes $: wiggles butt and squirms I want to see your big daddy meat~ wiggles butt I have a little itch o3o wags tail can you please get my itch~ puts paws on your chest nyea~ its a seven inch itch rubs your chest can you help me pwease squirms pwetty pwease sad face I need to be punished runs paws down your chest and bites lip like I need to be punished really good~ paws on your bulge as I lick my lips I'm getting thirsty. I can go for some milk unbuttons your pants as my eyes glow you smell so musky :v licks shaft mmmm~ so musky drools all over your cock your daddy meat I like fondles Mr. Fuzzy Balls hehe puts snout on balls and inhales deeply oh god im so hard~ licks balls punish me daddy~ nyea~ squirms more and wiggles butt I love your musky goodness bites lip please punish me licks lips nyea~ suckles on your tip so good licks pre of your cock salty goodness~ eyes role back and goes balls deep mmmm~ moans and suckles

I have nothing against Wayland as long as they can make it function as well or better than as X.

will this shit give me screen tearing by default or is it finally fixed?

It's meant to fix that.

It renders entire image as a whole before showing anything, so it can't screentear by design. Apps working under xwayland (gtk2, old qt, chromium) still tear though, depending on your settings.

B U T T H U R T

>it can't screentear by design
Wayland confirmed best protocol ever!

How is this different from forcing full screen repaints?

It's pronounced Quinn.

Sway is neat.

*blocks your path*

OMG that looks comfy!

what about gayming on wayland ?

But KDE will never have wayland, it's already so buggy especially on NVidia, it just can't be helped.

Plasma 5.12 releases 6.02 and will be KDE ready

Yeah but everything will still be a giant crashing-party and the bug reports will be closed as "UPSTREAM NOTMYFAULT LOL"

phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=gnome-326-x11way&num=1

Wayland will always be buggy with NVIDIA until nvidia stops being dickheads and actually supports the same kernel APIs that everyone supports.

Sway working with wlroots when?

>Wayland will always be buggy with NVIDIA until nvidia stops being dickheads and actually supports the same kernel APIs that everyone supports.
Nvidia also needs to stop being kikes and make their drivers Free Software.

I was going to try out wayland but found out it depended on a bunch of X things anyway? (ie. I cant add -X to my use flags in gentoo even though I use wayland)

>Wayland will always be buggy with NVIDIA until nvidia stops being dickheads and actually supports the same kernel APIs that everyone supports.
Yeah, in the meantime it's just going to work on other desktop environments because other people care about making it work more than sticking it up to nvidia.

When you ship crap, it's your responsibility to make it work. The hardware vendor doesn't care that your shit is horribly broken, your users do.

bumping the question

Are you stupid? I said "Wayland" not "KDE." EGL is hacky support and it's buggy on all DEs and WMs that happen to have it. I suspect most devs will drop it completely in the future. It's on NVIDIA to provide proper support. AMD and Intel do it just fine.

Yeah except it actually fucking works on GNOME of all things, because even tho it's broken they made it work.
And I'll do anything before I go back to GNOME 3.

Not true there is a beta now, and seems to be stable

>works
>implying
I'm sure it's buggy as hell.

martin pls

Could I use orbital wm or liri-shell as my window manager for xfce?

>Could I use orbital wm or liri-shell as my window manager for xfce?

pacman -Q wayland
error: package 'wayland' was not found

>making kde simple by default

well, they are failing

archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/wayland/
archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/sway/

This is what keeps me from switching to sway, I just can't get it right

top image:
output eDP-1 scale 2

bottom:
output eDP-1 scale 1

Both are shit, the bottom one is tiny unreadable (but at least the cursor, which you can't see, is the right size). The top one is huge.
Scale values between 1 and 2 don't seem to have any effect and 'fallback' to bottom situation.
I can scale up the icons in firefox config to get an inbetween situation, the font wont scale with it.
Same goes for thunar btw

I'm thinking scale=1 is right, but the UI text is somehow scaled down. In thunar icons look the right size but text is too small as well

I fucking want to get rid of Xorg, but I won't until Openbox gets ported, or there is a worth successor

LXQT will be switching from openbox to Kwin

>falling for the HiDPI meme
You'll have to wait until the wlroots port is completed. Then it should have support for HiDPI scaling.

>until Openbox gets ported
The last commit was like in 2015.

Wayland is a gnome project that is going to work best with gnome and lousy on everything else

When Gnome Team doesn't use something and removes it from gnome you are going to like it and not complain

not its not!
I wont care because I won't be using GNOME thats why I put a frowny face on it.

>Wayland is a gnome project
Nice meme.

>When Gnome Team doesn't use something and removes it from gnome you are going to like it and not complain
That's the standard operating procedure for just about everything, son.

-Q, --query
Query the package database. This operation allows you to view installed packages and their files, as well as meta-information about individual packages
(dependencies, conflicts, install date, build date, size). This can be run against the local package database or can be used on individual package
files. In the first case, if no package names are provided in the command line, all installed packages will be queried. Additionally, various filters
can be applied on the package list. See Query Options below.

Are you the same faggy op who opens minimals threads?

Yes!
I'm going to be using Sway at some point.

Nice to see you here ^_^
You should put more basic stuff like:
>how do you make screenshot
>how do you configure your keyboard layout
>what are some good terminal emulators
>how well supported are nvidia/ati drivers (what about nvidia optimus, bumblebee and all that shit)

DE and WM are something, but switching from X to Wayland require many many changes.
Honestly, I doubt we are ready to switch. When it comes to Wayland the only sane choice seems to use Gnome, Plasma or another full featured desktop environment.

This is actually an upstream bug in Firefox's Wayland support that Mozilla is actively working on.

>screenshot
"swaygrab"
>configure your keyboard layout
Use XKB_foo environment variables. I have the following env vars set:
XKB_DEFAULT_MODEL=thinkpad
XKB_DEFAULT_OPTIONS=ctrl:nocaps,compose:ralt
>terminal emulators
Termite, QTerminal
>GPU drivers
Nvidia anything is utterly unsupported except for Nouveau because Nvidia are huge fags and didn't support the standard GPU API that Wayland drivers use. Intel and AMD should Just Werkz.

Some of these are more like dirty fix than actual wayland-like solutions
>Use XKB_foo environment variables
They are Xorg variables.
>Termite
Archwiki says:
>For Wayland tiling WM users, you may want to install termite-nocsd which disable client side decorations

>Nvidia anything is utterly unsupported except for Nouveau
Ouch. It seems that I cannot really switch at the moment.

I'm unironically using Nouveau since I want to use wayland and never look back.

on plasma
>Integration features in Plasma still missing or incomplete (e.g. Pager applet)
>No Drag and Drop from X11 to Wayland windows and vice versa
>No support for primary selection (middle-click to paste)
>No support for tablet devices (e.g. wacom tablets)
>No clipboard history (e.g. klipper and clipboard plasmoid)
>XWayland older than 1.19 lacks features or has bugs, we recommend XWayland 1.19
>No focus stealing prevention for Wayland windows
>No window rules support for Wayland windows
>(Multi-)Screen configuration only partially implemented
>QtWebEngine crashes when used on Wayland Qt Bug 55384
>QtWayland: No support for animated mouse cursors Qt Bug 48181
>QtWayland: Dropdown windows closes on key presses Qt Bug 55403
>QtWayland: Missing compose key support Qt Bug 54792
>QtWayland: Key repeat settings ignored Qt Bug 55615
>QtWayland: Sub-menus may be placed incorrectly Qt Bug 50458
>GTK: windows don't have a minimize and maximize button
>GTK: windows are incorrectly placed
>GTK: latest version requires newer xdg-shell version which is not yet supported

They experimentally support KMS and DRM now.
Still isn’t really ready iirc.

Wayland based de without screen tearing on nvidia? Using cinnamon on debian i get terrible screen tearing even with force full composite pipeline

>GNOME 3 is designed to put you in control
mfw

Nice to see you too!
*hugs*
This isn't going to be a general really, so no need to make big changes to the OP.

Oh, and some random thing about Wayland for those of us who like being /minimal/, or for those who like to follow a KISS principle, launching these compositors from the TTY seems very comfy.
on X, you would have to get startx, put an exec for your DE/WM in the .xinitrc file, usually along with some other shit, and then run startx.
on Wayland, I think it's gonna be just straight up typing the name of the thing you want.
Wanna start sway? type "sway" at the TTY.
Wanna start KDE? I think it's "startplasmacompositor"

Yeah there's a special invocation for KDE, but Sway is just "sway." It feels like using DOS in a comfy way, with the GUI being contained within a program that can end and drop you right back to the shell.

Yeah that sounds like a great way of doing it.

>nvidia

It's great because you can just set up your environment variable, background daemons, etc. with systemd --user or your shell's rc files. You don't need to duplicate the effort every time you change WMs.

>Check out Liri, never heard of it, concept seems cool

>Big Buck Bunny

Fucking damn it, what the fuck is it with open source and that shitty, shitty fucking "movie".

Oh and btw fuck wayland. Fuck GNOME and Red Hat for that matter.

meanie!

>depends on systemd

No it doesn't, silly!

X11 is retarded, but Wayland isn't really any better.

wayland / vaapi / intel breaks my ability to use intel to hw accelerated video decoding.
They are in a won't fix standoff.

wayland / gnome experimental scaling for 125% 150% etc... scales up to whole number values and then re-samples back down, extremely costly and blurry due to cheap downsampeling filter.

Man, when developers aren't paid shit I use just fucking sucks and breaks because NEETS don't have 4k displays or care about hw acceleration, they just turn fans to 100% and bitbang everything on processor. I don't notice anything different as a user using wayland except extra shit is broken and all the bug reports get closed by all parties involved. fuck wayland, I was excited before it existed but now I just don't care.

>fuck wayland, I was excited before it existed but now I just don't care.
this. the hype a few years ago was insane

its been a huge letdown. this thing is a pile of shit. remove capabilities everywhere and claim it's an improvement. It's the Red Hat way.

yep, everyone knows x11 needs to go, but wayland has ended up being a sidegrade with its own issues

Most of its problem are because of shitty driver supports.
Gnome and KDE are both switching, so it's just a matter of time and it will became the new standard. Then we will shill about it like we're doing now for systemd.

Yeah from the thing in the OP, KDE is not developing on X anymore. All new developments will be for Wayland.

>its been a huge letdown. this thing is a pile of shit. remove capabilities everywhere and claim it's an improvement.

No it doesn't remove capabilities, the Wayland protocol is not supposed to have these capabilities because unlike X11 it is lean so that it can be future proof.

X11 is so full of cruft and a big mess because it adds all capabilities in itself, also it has zero security since anything with access to X (like EVERYTHING you run) can do what the hell it wants with your screen and input, screendumps/keylogging, ANYTHING.

So how do you do anything in Wayland then ? The compositor of your choice provides these features, Gnome and KDE make their own Wayland compositors which makes sense since they are full environments.

But what about the WM equivalents ? Will they all have to write their own compositors ? They can, but why would they, they can cooperatively build a compositor framework which they can all leverage, which is what is happening, cue 'wlroots'.

And why this is so much better than X is that if this wlroots solution turns out to be a non-perfect solution, you can just make another better one, it doesn't affect the top layer Wayland protocol. With X you had to continously add more features to the server making it increasingly bloated and buggy, and you had to keep old outdated shit because of compability.

Had to for certain programs.

okey

replying to pasta

>boot linux
>takes 5 seconds
>start plasma session
>takes 1 minute
ayy lmao

>NVidia
this is your problem

>When you ship crap, it's your responsibility to make it work. The hardware vendor doesn't care that your shit is horribly broken, your users do.
Nvidia is for muh gamer idiots anyway, grown ups use Intel or AMD for both graphics and CPU's

>>start plasma session
>>takes 1 minute
>ayy lmao
takes 3 seconds on my machine, stop being a poor fag and update that 15 year old computer

>10 years in development
>still works like shit
>linux desktop even more fragmented

Wayland sure is great

Thanks but apparently I screwed up myself.
I had set GTK font size to 7 as it is apparently the right font size if you set Xft.Dpi to 166 under X.
Since this setting is ignored by wayland, and sway's DPI setting is ignored by GTK, I had to manually increase font size back to sane levels (12) after with scale=1, it's okay now.

Still have to see and fix rofi (which seems not really fixable) and find a replacement for Xfce4-panel to run my applets (wifi/volume/battery)

Anyone know what's happening here?
When I close a window, for a brief moment the contents of the other windows are scaled up (?) to fill the entire new space, then the windows resize, then it goes back to normal
Driver issue?

I tried to post a webm of it but somehow it doesn't appear to happen in the swaygrab

Will wine ever support wayland? At this point, will actually anything support wayland without xwayland layer? Because it's slower than X.

I want Mir back

From what I've seen it's hard to implement some features into Wayland because of how it sandbox applications - e.g. an app can't take over the control of the mouse cursor, which is really great for security, but is shitty for basically anyone who wants to do some scripting. For example, the steam controller cannot control the mouse fully because of it.

It just seems to me that the protocol is missing many user centric features because of the focus on security. Hell, the base implementation doesn't have support for screenshots...

It's because Wayland is simply an incomplete display server protocol.
Wayland itself doesn't even have input handling, a fundamental feature of any display server.

Each compositor should just provide these features and everyone will use different APIs for it and if you want to make an app trying to use the screendump for something, you'll need to implement 30 different ways of getting to the screen.

You should be able to give apps certain rights based on the request from the compositor and then have an unified Wayland defined API for doing all of this. The way it is right now is lazy and bad for the end users.

>grown ups buy the inferior product because i need muh wayland to get work done
nice bait, m8

Good luck working with tensorflow on AMD or Intel my dude

If you use Linux and buy nvidia you are a retard.
No GPU vendor is as hostile to FOSS drivers as nvidia (unless you count ARM SoC GPUs)

werks on my machine, and I don't have to sacrifice performance. I don't care about your FOSS crusade.

Enjoy your planned obsolescence.

Enjoy your wild fantasies about shit that doesn't happen while you put up with pootech.

>Wayland itself doesn't even have input handling, a fundamental feature of any display server.
>doesn't even have INPUT handling, a fundamental feature of any DISPLAY server.
wew

But it literally did happen.
>nividia drops support for your card
>old versions of proprietary drivers stop working with latest Linux systems
>forced to use shitty reverse-engineered foss drivers that barely support your card

>A display server or window server is a program whose primary task is to coordinate the input and output of its clients to and from the rest of the operating system, the hardware, and each other. The display server communicates with its clients over the display server protocol, a communications protocol, which can be network-transparent or simply network-capable.