Germany

Britain won again.

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/06/france-strong-bid-banking-business-poised-to-leave-london-paris-brexit-manuel-valls
youtu.be/dWhtPByViJU
twitter.com/AnonBabble

waheyyy

...

Halve from 0,4% to 0,2%?

We have neither growth nor inflation here. We'll become the next Japan, I tell you.

Things just keep getting g better and better

Cheeky bastards

>So I asked Britain to destroy the EU's economy and he actually did it

You're telling me lad, I can't wait to get rid of these pesky wrinkles

>We'll become the next Japan, I tell you.
What? By becoming extinct?

>let's decrease our influence on the world despite holding overwhelmingly similar views with europe

China and Russia must be giddy. Bravo brits, you've done the dividing and are waiting for the conquering. You're helping the decline of the West.

>Italy pls help
other way around m8, we had to bail them out like 5 times in the war and they still turned on us

The west can't decline any further. Its already hit rock bottom you glue sniffing bowsy

Why shouldn't the UK be able to function as an independent country? The EU is a franco-german creation and its destination is a federal state. Why should the UK stop existing as a country?

I was kind of shocked when it turned out we didn't have any trade negotiators of our own because the EU did it for us

yeah but muh foreigners muh sovereignty etc.

>EU is a franco-german creation
So is the UK

>So is the UK
Nope. Maybe you mean England, but that's wrong too

At least they have growth, unlike Britain

You're our port you Dutch bastard. You're irrelevant.

>At least they have growth, unlike Britain

England was settled by Germanics and a significant chunk of our vocabulary comes from France.

ah yes british defeatism

your statement is incredibly wrong btw, whatever happened to british exceptionalism? Sad tbph.

Yeah and look at how much your economy has grown over the past 4 decades. It seemed to work well. The EU is essentially just institutionalised free trade agreements, getting rid of them is just going to put power into the hands of out of touch british technocrats instead of out of touch european (including british) ones. You can yell about muh sovereignty all you want but free trade is not transparent or democratic and never has been. Now instead of using the chance to reform the EU and making it transparent, you're reverting back to the way the rest of us do it.

What? Its the complete other way around idiot

>At least they have growth, unlike Britain
...

>The EU is essentially just institutionalised free trade agreements
Completely wrong. It's a lot more than that.

Funnily enough the main reason for our long streak of good growth was black wednesday. Its quite clear from that that the EU is holding everyone back

Never trust the Eternal Eyetie

...

>At least they have growth, unlike Britain

>At least they have growth, unlike Britain

Hmmm

>The EU is essentially just institutionalised free trade agreements

Is this a joke?

If we're going to get into a big happy free trade family with transparency, growth and all the good stuff, it should be British-led not Franco-German. Britain tried to influence the EU for example we were instrumental in the Single Market, but the institutions of the EU are geared to pushing federalism. The UK was not there at the beginning, which was a mistake. We joined too late.

well ok it's also institutionalised movement, law and monetary agreements

really it's just a way for many nations to negotiate and regulate at once, rather than having a million different agreements (which would ironically be less efficient than the EU). Like I said, you might hate it, but the EU is just normal inter-government bureaucracy in institution form. I'm not saying it's perfect and it does need reform, but all you've done with brexit is given your english nationalists some material to wank to.

I don't see why it should be british-led, or franco-german led. It should be european parliament led. Strengthening and increasing transparency in the EU parliament in EU matters should be the first lesson of the brexit.

>well ok it's also institutionalised movement, law and monetary agreements

and trade agreements, and international representation, and foreign policy, and economy, and currency, and borders, and governing body etc

The first lesson should be that they're better off without this bloated monster of an institution and that we should follow suit.

We're actually Germany's port

>It should be european parliament led.
You say this and yet you harp on about British Exceptionalism. Your posts are a contradictory mess.

If you want the European Parliament to take the lead, which has never been the case (today it's the member states which have power), what you want is the erosion of national sovereignty in favour of EU sovereignty. This is not "normal inter-government bureaucracy".

Maybe you haven't done the maths, but the Eurozone population outnumbers us by a lot. Which means in a European Parliament the Eurozone MEPs will heavily outnumber British MEPs.

You want us reduced to a helpless minority in a European federal state. That is your idea of British Exceptionalism. I don't know what you've been drinking but a lot of countries in the EU aren't as keen on free trade or economic liberalism as the UK (they sneer at the "Anglo-Saxon model") and you want us to be subjected to those, who outnumber us.

The only reason the UK stayed in the EU as long as it did was because the European Parliament was weak.

The EU is perfectly keen on free trade, not on high inequality, having a large financial sector, having a large divide between private and state education abd having your nuclear plants owned by China

yeah, which worked quite well for quite a long time

we'll see

I mentioned british exceptionalism, because there was a time that britain wanted to maximise its influence on the world stage.

I am pro european integration, if not total federalism - because I like european values, which by and large are similar to each other. Counted as one entity the EU has the largest economy in the world and has a lot of influence. Counted as separate nations you're disorganised and weak. I'm australian, and I can see that the ONLY way europe can stay relevant is to work as a bloc.

I see the Saudis spending their money on the arabisation of islam all over the world. 20 years ago almost nobody in indonesia wore head scarfs. Today it is the norm in Java and they're becoming more like arabs every day because of arab-funded schooling. We spend money on setting up secular schools in indo and other countries but it's not enough. You see China setting up institutes all over the world to spread their propaganda The EU, along with the rest of the West, should be coordinating and working together to bring rationality, secularism and Western thinking to the world. Instead, you're devolving into your petty historic conflicts instead of unifying and spreading our values.

You're selling out the future of the West for your petty pride led by old cunts who think they still live in a world that cares about europe. And it makes me mad.

>having a large financial sector
One of the warnings of Brexit was that France was going to try and take all the financial business currently done in Europe. It's not that they don't want a large financial sector it's that they don't want anybody else having a large financial sector.

>large divide between private and state education
Always will be, nothing to do with the EU. They're good because they get more money.

>having your nuclear plants owned by China
But France is ok?

>At least they have growth
i too like to ignore facts when it suits me

>the Peeropean Poonion

This is very revealing. You can barely hide your contempt for European countries, you only think we're worth something if we abandon our sovereignty and independence.

I do not accept your premise that the major European countries on their own are "weak". We have been weak because of destructive wars and the continent being split in two by two superpowers for so many years.

YOU see China "setting up institutes" all over the world but you refuse to see European countries like the UK also increasing their global footprint in a cultural, military and economic sense because you hold us in contempt. Even though exactly that is happening

You also assume that just because Europeans share values (which rightly means we should work together closely) that it would be easy for us to stop being separate nations. This is another example of how little you understand Europe.

It would be difficult for Europe to bring rationality, secularism and Western thinking into the world if it couldn't function because it was a beauracratic mess. Europe has already done those things by the way. European domination of the world did NOT happen because one state controlled Europe. You have no grasp on history either. Every time a European super state has been formed, the Continent of Europe has suffered greatly as that super state unravelled.

>I'm australian
Good for you! I'm British.

France owns its own nuclear reactors. A divide in education only leads to more inequality and is inefficient as it robs the poor of opportunity and leads to less upward mobility, which is laughable low (US-tier) in the UK.

There were essentially no people saying that France was going to take over finance, those were about Dublin, Frankfurt, Luxembourg or Amsterdam.

The reason having the financial sector constitute roughly 10% is bad is because it is risky and often creates bubbles, particularly with low interest rates which the BoE just instituted

>You're helping the decline of the West.
I don't really care.

Your economy experienced negative growth in July

Well ye Brexit isn't happening anymore.

What Brit here truly believes May is gonna absolute madman article 50? All trade negotiators know that 2 years is way too short a time for a trade deal.

>Second referendum
>Oh, guess not hahaha no hard feelings right EU :DDDD

Oh fuck off. Austria has a much larger financial sector relative to its economy than the UK, and no one ever complains about them.

>France owns its own nuclear reactors.
The Chinese reactor we're talking about is partly funded by the French which is why I said.

>Education
And again, it won't change while private gets the most money. This isn't about the EU, it's that places like Eton get a lot in donations. Oxford and Cambridge are the best because they get absolutely loads in donations. Social mobility isn't as bad as you think. It's just another case of people looking at extremes, the same thing women do when they state the number of women as CEOs in FTSE100 companies.

>Finance
theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/06/france-strong-bid-banking-business-poised-to-leave-london-paris-brexit-manuel-valls

That's not actually what I was looking for but that's good enough. It was some French minister before the vote saying they'd take it. I've heard mumblings about Frankfurt etc but that's mostly because they're already big finance cities rather than there being someone saying that they'll take it.

>BoE
Mark Carney is a fraud.

She's already said she will have she doesn't need to hold a vote in parliament for it either. Your point is basically that May is definitely going to be found out a liar rather than any sort of real argument.

Politicians lie.
Where's the 350m/week?
What makes you think May is a politician that does not lie?

I don't have contempt for europe, don't put words in my mouth and make strawman arguments. European countries are comparitively weak on their own, and diminishing all the time, purely because the rest of the world is catching up. Nukes will help keep europe somewhat relevant for a long time however.

Also I've seen very little evidence for the UK increasing their footprint in the world, having travelled through SEAsia, China and Japan.

And yeah you talk about history and european domination but that was a long time ago. The generations who lived under european colonial rule are dying, as are the leaders who fought against it - europe is becoming less and less relevant in the world's mindset.

And I didn't say it'd be easy or that you even should become one nation - just integrate more. So you can stop focussing on fighting each other and focus on fighting the rest of the world.

And I mentioned I'm australian because I've haven't really seen much european influence in this part of the world (other than historic influence). America does all the heavy lifting. Europe is just tourist destination now, but on paper it could be a superpower.

>this desparate
You are stupider than every American on here as you are trying to troll a Brit over something that hasn't happened yet and for all intents and purposes won't happen. We will know after January 2017 because the UK Government is currently working on a timetable to leave by the end of the year.

>Well ye Brexit isn't happening anymore.
t. increasingly nervous european

They don't even have nearly the amount of negotiators they need.
>My politicians speak the truth but yours don't

Mrs May has made it clear that she will not trigger Article 50 until 2017. This means that Britain could be set to go in 2019.
"But Brexit Secretary David Davis has set a timetable to end Brussels rule in Britain which could see independence achieved even earlier.

He said a “Brexit but measured approach” would allow for a “probable formal departure from the EU around December 2018”".
I don't think you get how much time this is.

t. person acting all tough but will have to get along with Europeans after becomes clear that they won't leave after all.

t. voters regret

sharters sucking britan dry because of "muh heritage" are always funny

What makes you think she does lie?

Do you have numbers on how many negotiators we have? I know we've hired a lot but I'd like to know how many you think we have.

>acting tough
The only one acting tough here though is you. Acting being a keyword here.

Because she's a politician and was initially in favour of Remain?

Last number in our news was 10% of the required amount, but might hire from an international company for 5k/person/day.

>We spend money on setting up secular schools in indo and other countries but it's not enough.

Ooooooooooor we shouldn't change other cultures and leave it as it is. If I visit Indonesia, I want to see Indonesian culture, not my own.

Why doesn't Britain just make a economic union with its former commonwealth's?

They already have the queen on their money.

It could be called
Eternal Anglo dollaroos

So? She's appointed a number of leave favouring people to her cabinet. Would she do that if she was going to sabotage it?

10% of the required amount isn't a good statistic unless you can tell me how many the required amount is.

Australia are chalked up to be our first trade deal, India have expressed an interest already too

because we fucked them over by joining the EU and trading much more heavily with Europe than with the Commonwealth. If they take us back it's only out of the kindness of their hearts and a willingness to shrink their economies in the short-term at least. They all have new trade partners now, and we just can't butt in and demand first priority for goods and services.

Canada needed 300 to negotiate a deal in 8 years (assuming it's signed next year). UK probably needs about 400-500, or 600 to match the EU.

And she would appoint a brexit cabinet to please the brexit hardliners in the short term. Above everything she just enjoys the power she currently has, as would anyone.

Well as someone said, there's no way to know for sure what her intentions are until Britain does one thing or the other, but this woman breathes Machiavelli.

>shrink their economies
trade does not shrink an economy.

A federalised EU would necessitate the destruction and amalgamation of 90% of the unique cultures/languages that exist there. It simply isn't feasible in this century. However military blocs like NATO, and trading blocs like what the EU used to be are definitely possible and already exist.

I understand that time frame, I am not saying my politicians don't lie you just lack valid reason to assume that she will outright just never activate article 50. There is valid reason to assume she will delay a lot which will cause maximum pain for the EU because she wants to get the Scots on board but not just completely ignore the vote.

You do have contempt because your "European countries have to get weaker" narrative is based on no research at all. Your only evidence is your own anecdotal evidence of travelling through some of Asia, and "the world's mindset". You also make the heroic assumption that "just integrating more" would stop us fighting each other. Again I refer you to all of European history which contradicts that point.

Actual evidence for the UK increasing their footprint in the world:

- new overseas military bases East of Suez and in Central America, and bolstering the existing British military presence in East Asia
- the BBC World Service budget increasing and trying to push into new even hostile places such as North Korea, against the wishes of their government
- the UK economy moving upwards in the world rankings
- London successfully making the pivot to East Asia, now the City is the largest overseas clearing centre for Renminbi after Hong Kong, beating Singapore

The Cold War meant that European countries had to focus all their military power on European defence, and you wonder why America does all the heavy lifting in your part of the world? Firstly it takes a hell of a long time to chance the military posture from Cold War going Hot to Expeditionary, we're talking decades. Secondly the USA (their government at least) likes it that way. Do you know how hard the Americans worked to push British influence out of East Asia? They never entirely succeeded thank goodness, we kept a small military presence there after all this time

Doesn't matter how often you make these denies, we are eventually going to leave the EU. If the British government doesn't do it the electorate will punish them. I don't know why you think the public will suddenly forget the vote ever happened

It will take many years but we are leaving the EU. Theresa May will be in power until at least 2025 guaranteed if she wins the 2020 election. She has NO incentive to play for the short term

Canada is also a country that is not currently in the EU. I would assume things such as product safety guidelines are different in Canada than they are in the EU, while ours are the same. I don't see it taking as long as that.

Do you have any idea about British party politics at all? I don't think you do.

I'm not sure you know the meaning of Machiavellian either, or you don't know Theresa May. If she's going to fuck you she likes to tell you before. Give me some examples of what you think a Machiavellian character does.

Like I said, just watch what happens and when it does either rejoice that you believed in the woman, or curse your naivety.
I personally wouldn't be able to believe in an unelected head of state that wasn't in favour of your vision of Britain.

I love how brits talk like they're not part of the EU anymore
Face it, even if article 50 is triggered you get AT LEAST 2 more years in the EU and you'll probably just join the EEA anyway

Why was the referendum non-binding anyway? Why even hold one at all then?

>I personally wouldn't be able to believe in an unelected head of state that wasn't in favour of your vision of Britain.
She's elected by the party we elected in to government. I didn't vote for David Cameron I voted for my local conservative MP. This is not America.

>rio pool.jpg
Wat bedoelde hij hiermee?

Machiavelli, not Machiavellian.

>the electorate will punish them
might, its your opinion not a fact.

Brits vote for parties, not meme presidential candidates like the yanks. Isn't it the same in the Netherlands or aren't you old enough to vote yet?

You talk about our "naivety" and you're the one saying she's our head of state. You're pretty stupid aren't you. I didn't even vote Leave, but I understand that has to happen now the public has voted.

Also since when has Britain even directly elected the Prime Minister? You're fucking clueless about this country. You should know how a Parliamentary Democracy works.

>Why was the referendum non-binding anyway? Why even hold one at all then?
Because in the UK only Parliament is sovereign. Things can only happen via an Act of Parliament. It's impossible for a referendum to be binding, in fact it's impossible for an Act of Parliament to bind future Parliaments.

Fine. The electorate is VERY LIKELY to punish a government that ignores the referendum.

>you'll probably just join the EEA anyway
Hopefully other countries follow suit and we get a real two-track Europe instead of just one in name. And then the countries that do want to federalise can do it without trying to force those that don't.

>You should know how a Parliamentary Democracy works.
I think you should, because the Neth have one but you have a chimera of a system that defies classification or democratic mandate. the fact that it works at all is a testament to british civil society, not the british system.

I never claimed any British PMs were elected though.

EEA is a tricky one. I don't think it'll happen unless the EU or Britain give-in to the other side on movement of people. It's hard to tell at the moment but I'd prefer not if we can't restrict EU immigration.

To make the conservative party and a lot of the country happy. They thought they'd win by a good amount but as you can see they didn't.

Machiavelli is a person not a character trait or ideology. Someone is not a Marx, they are a Marxist. Nice dodge though.

>I think you should, because the Neth have one but you have a chimera of a system that defies classification or democratic mandate.

Sorry, how is the UK *not* a Parliamentary Democracy?

youtu.be/dWhtPByViJU

>EEA is a tricky one. I don't think it'll happen unless the EU or Britain give-in to the other side on movement of people.
I think we'll give in on movement of people. The Tories want it, and they can easily spin it as "Oh, we left the EU, the British people aren't racists after all :^)"

No, I mean they're literally different.
Machiavellian is a trait that defines people as seeing all people as bad.
Machiavelli implies the political book Il Principo, or other smaller writings.
Machiavelli and Machiavellian (which he of course was himself, but alas) are connected in name, but are two very, very different things.

Read chapter 18.

>I think we'll give in on movement of people.
Don't think so desu. The plebs are angry and the Tories don't want any more of them voting for UKIP.

Some of the Tories want it, possibly a majority of them do, but it'd be tough for them to be able to rationalise it to most people.

>Because in the UK only Parliament is sovereign
Geez I always forget you're not a republic. Can you even call the UK a democracy then? Or is it more of a democratically elected aristocracy of five years?

To cut the hair splitting short, what exactly are you saying about her then? Do you have any reason to believe she lives by that book?

Well hmm, let's go back to basics and look up the definition of democracy

>a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

>typically through elected representatives

The UK elects representatives to a place called Westminster. Not sure how you can call MPs an "aristocracy", many of them are pleb as fuck

BTW always love it when other Europeans shit on our system of government. Take a look at your own histories before you laugh at us. How many of the continental European countries have managed to sustain a continuous democracy as long as us?

None of you.

But when the people are not the sovereign how can you hold parliament accountable? You have the right for a vote every five years that's it. It's not even this bad in Germany and we never even got to vote on our constitution.

Atleast we have

FOUR WORLD CUPS

That flag can be interpreted as a symbol of German identify. I reported ths post to the local antifa chapter.

I don't live in a city with a university so I don't have one.

>try to make a joke
>get cucked by autocomplete
*sigh*

when are we getting our global financial sector lads

>Another Brexit hurts the EU economy thread
How is this news to anyone? Just look at the import/export countries and ratio.
There won't be a downfall, but there probably won't be a BOOM™ either.
UK's possible "difficulties" are going to be longer term, and not all easily quantifiable.

It'd be fun to have alternate realities to take a peek at and compare our own to them. Then we'd know for sure what the pros and cons are.
Even some (if not most) economists are just guessing. Absolute madmen. Usually the most boring ones are right.

The global press is just fucking up our minds and altering opinions with balderdash. It'd be wise to disconnect every now and then.

>keep being our bitch because muh geopolitics!

>bongs this obsessed about yurop

you poltards are really retarded

You do know there was something before the EU?