>go to Sao Paulo, Brazil with an open mind >billion dollar high rise apartments overlooking homeless niggers and favelas >shitty gang graffiti on ever square inch of building or infrastructure >homeless people everywhere >favelas everywhere >on edge worrying about getting robbed 100% of the time >can hear fireworks which signal the favela has new drugs a couple of times a week >cracolandia is a thing >river smells like absolute dog shit >see pic related >"why do they allow this, they built houses on the fucking highway" >"because if they take them down, the favelados burn down buses and destroy things"
God bless America, I have seen the light and have seen the potential future of the United States if corruption, lack of police care, and leftism takes over the country.
Yeah, São Paulo is a fucking trashy concrete jungle, I hope you weren't there for tourism.
Dominic Brown
This is the future you chose
Oliver Brooks
not for tourism, if I went as a tourist I think I would have been killed desu. Also I have to admit the people are really nice from what I experienced
Easton Perry
An American witnesses the effects of poverty and is still convinced that leftism is the problem and not socio-economic inequality. Definitely causes you to ponder.
Brandon Gonzalez
>"I drove by marginal tiete and must tell the whole world about it"
You shouldn't be in São Paulo for tourism.
If it's for business. Get used to it. This is what an emerging market looks like. If you don't like it go do something else.
Jeremiah Sanders
He's right though.
You can't talk about income distribution when a country's income per capita is low.
Businesses create wealth, not a welfare state.
Nolan Clark
>distribute wealth >now everyone lives in favelas bravo
Blake Cruz
13 years of a party that has a communist red star as its symbol, ex-president that was literally a Marxist guerrilla fighter that helped tank the economy of a promising and potential rising power
Justin Howard
>he actually went to Brazil Idk what you were expecting.
Oliver Lopez
yes cause before the commies things were much better!
Nolan Mitchell
...
Gabriel James
well I got the beautiful mixed mulatto women i was promised. I've never seen so many wide hipped and fat assed woman in once concentrated place
Adam Morgan
yes business want their employees to earn more also they want too to pay more taxes to develop their country haha
Jacob Young
Goods and services come from businesses. Not the government.
Government disrupts market strategies and create uncertainties, meaning less businesses.
Less businesses means less things. Meaning increased cost of living for citizens and less income the government receives.
If there are more businesses, employee salaries have higher purchasing power (meaning they get to buy more stuff) and government income increases, meaning more to spend.
It's a win-win with more businesses. There you go, have a free economics lesson.
Grayson Wood
There are plenty of wife hipped "white" women as well.
Justin Jackson
make all the jokes you want, but I live very close to, and work in NYC. I don't have to play search and destroy on favela in real life like you mother fuckers do everyday
I'm not saying its all leftists fault that led to what Brazil is today. I'm saying its what will help America collapse. Brazil is fucked with way too many problems to single out a single one, but honestly corruption from politicians is probably the biggest.
Evan Hernandez
It's worth pointing out that our government is already disruptive as fuck, it's one of the worst places in the world to open a business.
Successful businesses here did it despite the government, not because.
Samuel Gutierrez
yes every business just want the best for its people! They will never ever create more poverty for their own profit!
Xavier Cox
They have those shitholes everywhere, just hiding it better. And even worse, they have entire cities turned into slums, it's not just a hidden spot here and there. The United States has an HDI-M that's literally third-world tier. They also have "white trash" shitholes in the south with swamp niggers and trailer dwellers.
Nolan Taylor
nobody gives a fuck about the US tho, your culture is too different from ours
Jordan Murphy
No they don't create more poverty, did you just not read what I wrote?
I took like five minutes out of my time for you to understand that business create wealth, FOR EVERYONE.
Literally the only thing government can do is pave roads, open ports, do things regardly infraestruture and maybe services.
The government doesn't decrease the real price of goods. Businesses do. Businesses decrease poverty.
I know that's something hard for you to understand considering you were raised with a leftist mentality.
Christopher Hernandez
FUCK YOU CUNT!!!
I WENT TO SAO PAULO AND IT WAS AWESOME.
IF YOU GO THERE WITH A NEGATIVE ATTITUDE LOOKING FOR BAD SHIT ONLY THEN YOU WILL FIND IT.
THEY HAVE AWESOME ARTCHITECTURE, AWESOME PARKS AND MONUMENTS AND THE FAVELAS ARE ALSO AWESOME IF YOU'RE NOT A PUNK ASS BITCH WHO IS TOO SCARED TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE FORM THERE AND ACTUALLY HANG OUT THERE AND PLAY SOME VIDEO GAMES AND EAT AT PEOPLE'S HOMES AND KICK SOME BALL WITH THE KIDS AFTER SMOKING WEED.
YES, I HAD A FUCKING AWESOME TIME BECAUSE I'M NOT A RACIST CUNT.
PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHY THE WORLD HATES AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chase Scott
Based finbro.
Nolan Wright
>cracolandia is a thing
Lucas Baker
I HATE THESE KIND OF FAGGOTS WHO COME ON HERE PRETENDING LIKE THEIR COUNTRIES ARE PERFECT
YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE AND FIND SHIT AND BEAUTIFUL STUFF.
OBRIGADO BRASIL. YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING AWESOME TO HANG OUT WITH.
Evan Ramirez
>blasts the most right-wing place in the country >blames the left
Zachary Jackson
>hanging out in favelas >awesome architecture >awesome parks
You're either blatantly retarded or a troll
Dylan Rodriguez
>most right-wing That's not SC or PR.
Blake Evans
yes they dont I mean all business just want the collectively good of everyone else.They will never EVER group themselves and do the measures the benefit only themselves in spite of the rest, cause you know every capitalist has this ideal of free trade and competition and they will never EVER do things that only benefit themselves. That isvwhy they are 100% trustable meanwhile the government which has no function whatsoever, cause business are the real thing, only creates poverty and exists only to stop the business good deeds. God capitalists are saints, the government is sinful!
Oliver White
I DON'T EVEN NEED TO GOOGLE SHIT TO KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN AND MY SPELLING WILL DEFINITELY BE WRONG: PARKE IBIRAPEURA >>>>>> ANY PARK IN ANY AMERICAN CITY
Gavin Sanchez
If you come to São Paulo a next time post on /luso/, we could definitely go out for a beer.
He wasn't talking about the favelas.
There really are nice places in São Paulo.
Praça da Sé, Teatro municipal, a lot of places in the city center. Higienópolis. Your reality got hit really hard by one place...
Ok. How does the government reduce poverty?
Jeremiah Morales
you are the one that wasted a opportunity to discover good things here and instead chose to pander to your Sup Forums ideals
Hunter Stewart
Wow you're retarded.
If a company impoverished people, who would be left to buy their products?
Rising tide, you naive faggot.
Jack Wood
by regulating business
Nathan Rodriguez
Lad. Just don't. You might catch stupid.
Triggered/10
Julian Jackson
Weak cunt
Fucking grow a pair
Owen Sanchez
I have a good friend there who's Brazilian Japanese. He told me he went to Japan for a few years to see if he would like it there but he preferred Sao Paulo over Tokyo.
Logan Garcia
>right-wingers are exclusively Aécio voters
uh...no.
and btw, this chart comes close to proving my point.
Lincoln Hernandez
guys, I know I shit on Sao Paulo, but I did visit all of the major tourist areas worth seeing. Literally everything you listed I've seen and have pictures in. I almost got robbed by junkies at praca da se, the tents everywhere really add to the vibe of the center of the city
you're objectively wrong I'm sorry
Aiden Sanders
>redistribute wealth >everyone lives in a favela, but at least they live in favelas together Way2go
Gavin Jenkins
I live in Rio Grande do Sul and I work in São Paulo every once in a while. I've been to nearly every corner in that state and I've never been robbed or felt remotely threatened in 28 years. Swallow your shit and shart it, cause it's spilling out from your fingertips. São Paulo as a whole (not just the city, but the state itself) is a wonder, and I love them to death.
Wyatt Myers
Ibirapuera is pretty nice.
Sorry m8.
Gavin Cruz
Poor people consume more, it's econ 101.
Liam Roberts
maybe because you're used to seeing homeless crackheads in all corners of your country, but I don't think its a good look for a city to allow people to line busy street corners with tents to live in. Like I said, I enjoyed my time and the people were great, but the city itself is a dump. If you have ever left Brazil to visit a prospering first world city and return to Sao Paulo and think its a "wonder" go get your brain examined
I never said it wasn't, but to say that its better than any park in any american city is retarded
Bentley Green
>he thinks redistribution harms the economy
Yeah, let's give all power to the capitalists and wait for them to make their free market magic. What could go wrong?
Julian Evans
Relative to their own income.
But if they don't have income they don't consume.
Sebastian Adams
How do businesses create poverty?
Nolan Moore
Nigger I've seen more shit in Texas and Louisiana than any part of São Paulo. Tone down your superiority complex and quit sharting yourself already.
Matthew Russell
you are retarded tbqh, USA is proof that a mostly free market is best while Brazil is a socialist abomination that doesn't work.
Nathan Turner
Oh sure they will, they'll just buy things on loans and payments. See: USA.
Nicholas Gonzalez
whatever you say Joao
Brandon Sanders
you're lying, if you were there for tourism you'd avoided nasty places, which is quite easy in brazil
except if you are outright retarded
Connor Allen
They still use credit to buy nice things, like TVs or cellphones, but in absolute terms someone who makes a BRL 6.000 is spending more than someone with BRL 2.000.
Charles Gomez
every picture in this thread I personally took with my own camera. I wasn't there for tourism, i was visting a friend
Michael Rodriguez
>this is what lolbertarians think
Owen Gutierrez
The American is either still too free or regulated the wrong way, otherwise it wouldn't be in the process of turning into a crumbling service based shell with exploding debt and income inequality. Back in the glorious 50s the US had more workers leverage and a top income tax rate that would be called communist today.
Noah Thompson
>they literally don't know about the decline of the American middle class that has been going on for four decades.
Jayden Torres
>United States >paying something Have a look at their debt bubble and go figure how they're going to pay that with all those Trump-likes going nuts with China, and now apparently with Brazil as well considering our current relations with China. They're overwhelmingly butthurt because there's a rise of threat to their national industry so it's a matter of time before you see the Sup Forumsacks flooding Sup Forums with Brazil hatred, which is already becoming a thing among Shartposters.
It's mainly a projection of their own insecurities, probably too afraid of losing their jerbs when their national industry go to shambles.
Adrian Lopez
Answer my question.
How does a free market create poverty?
Adam Flores
Theres something delicious about living in the richest and most prosperous country in the history of HUMAN CIVILIZATION and seeing favela niggers across the world arguing about capitalism and free markets.
Daniel Wright
look at Victorian Era UK and you will know your answer
Austin Thompson
How does a free market today create poverty?
Jacob Murphy
By concentrating wealth and power. But I already know what you're going to say: "it's the state that does that!". You people are immune to facts.
Landon Collins
the same way it always did, people veing greedy and not giving a fuck about others. Also free market doesnt exist
Caleb Jenkins
20 trillion dollars public debt, doubled just in Obama's period, very prosperous.
Aiden James
Hong Kong USA UK Australia
Those are some examples of free economies, and guess what, they are rich as fuck and enjoy great quality of life.
Now feel free to post examples of successful socialist economies.
Eli Hernandez
>AUSTRALIA >FREE MARKET omg you cant be that stupid
Joshua Mitchell
Hmm? >Australia, which ranks as 82.7% free, has very low tariffs and strong private property rights. The government provides businesses with lots of flexibility and does not constrict them with overly complicated regulations or licensing procedures. capx dot co/free-market-success-stories-2-australias-rise/
A quick Google search could have saved you the embarrassment.
Jordan Young
>"it's the state that does that!" That's not what I was going to say.
You're thinking monopolies. For which I agree there needs to be regulation. Regulation that promotes competition between businesses.
No one, serious, in the world is for 100% free market.
Wealth doesn't come from the government. It doesn't create wealth.
Jaxson Cruz
>one banking city that acts as the gate to a country of a billion mostly poor people >two former empires that are desperately trying to prevent their downfall >one hilariously empty desert shithole that happens to have a lot of mineral resources for relatively few people
Nicholas Cook
yes yes those rankings clearly state the freedom of market! I am sure that Australia doesnt have one of the biggest regulatory states of the world! Also one of the highest taxes and company costs in the world
Owen Turner
Detroit is notoriously shit though. No other place even comes close.
Nathan Hernandez
no it doesnt, wealth comes from the people, also yeah companies do generate wealth but they also have the power to concentrate wealth for themselves and fucking the rest including the whole country generating poverty
Nicholas Wilson
Ngl I think São Paulo os a shithole too, its HDI must be extremely bumped up by a large group of millionaries. Multiple monkey cities with less than 500k people can be very comfy and far more enjoyable than São Paulo.
Logan Jackson
I'm not sure why you are posting against economic freedom, Germany is rank 17 (USA is 11 and Brazil is fucking 122). heritage.org/index/ranking
Brody Turner
>But if they don't have income they don't consume. You'd be surprised.
Luis Peterson
Feel free to post some examples of that happening.
John Diaz
>Brazil is 122 >India is 123 >Russia is 153 >these three countries have rich regions but with extreme poverty and inequality everywhere too
Makes you think.
Luke Campbell
China too, 144th place.
William Watson
Because it's only a tool that needs to be well managed, it's not a guarantee for wealth or a goal in itself.
>Wealth doesn't come from the government. It doesn't create wealth.
Wow, did you figure that out for yourself, or did you read it in an Austrian economics book. I bet your mates are very impressed by this kind of coment.
>No one, serious, in the world is for 100% free market.
Free market doesn't exist, either integrally or partially. Modern economies are inherently collectivist, and when you apply "free market policies", what you're really doing is giving plutocrats power over society.
Nathaniel Clark
>and when you apply "free market policies", what you're really doing is giving plutocrats power over society. Some examples of that?
Blake Carter
Wellcome to cyberpunk age, murica.
Alexander Phillips
Well, privatization of roads, of the electric grid and of telecommunications are some examples. But there are dozens of others.
Jaxon Turner
I agree that these essentials shouldn't be private but you still didn't give an example of plutocrats fucking over society because of free market policites.
David Davis
>>one hilariously empty desert shithole that happens to have a lot of mineral resources for relatively few people
Brazil has tremendous resources as well, still it isn't doing very well. In fact, most countries with lots of natural resources are not doing well, just look at the middle east, Africa or Russia. To do well you need to have a good leadership, e.g. Norway.
Cameron Collins
>Wow, did you figure that out for yourself, or did you read it in an Austrian economics book. I bet your mates are very impressed by this kind of coment.
That was a reply to the other user. Who doesn't understand that.
So yes, you have to say it in baby terms to some people.
Colton Ross
Why don't YOU tell me what are "free market policies"? I bet you have some imaginary measure in mind that no capitalist actually advocates.
Gavin Hill
No supply and demand regulation, low barrier to entry (less bureaucracy), just less governmental interference in general.
Of course a 100% free economy might be problematic but that's not what I'm advocating for, I just want Brazil to adopt tested and true policies that worked before.
Luis Collins
Watch out for that edge user
Angel Ward
> I just want Brazil to adopt tested and true policies that worked before. >doesn't propose a single specific policy, only generic complaints and nonsense.
Joshua Powell
>I will insult him since my arguments were completely dismantled, that will show him! You are way beyond help, please leave Brazil so we get one less retard voting for communists.
Zachary Myers
I went to Sao Paulo a few years back and had a fucking blast. People are generally pretty nice, Vila Madalena was awesome to walk through, and the food was amazing.
8.7/10 would visit again if plane tickets weren't so expensive.
Ethan White
As I expected, all you have are empty slogans and no real proposals. You free-market types are all fake.
Camden Perry
>arguments were completely dismantled
I haven't even presented any arguments yet, because you don't even know what you're defending, all you do is say "free markets good, state intervention bad".
Hudson Roberts
I will just post a few problems Brazil has, just for you.
>Brazil has one of the highest tax burdens of any major economy, at around 37 percent of GDP. Firms spend about 2,600 hours a year, equivalent to three and half months, filling tax forms in Brazil. Firms are charged a total tax rate of more than 67 percent, according to the World Bank, which is 20 percent higher than the average for the rest of Latin America and the Caribbean.
>Another big issue facing businesses in Brazil is getting construction permits. Companies spend nearly 470 days completing 17 procedures to obtain a permit, which is over triple the time it takes on average in OECD countries.
>Bureaucratic hurdles remain common, including lengthy processes for launching a business and obtaining permits. The non-salary cost of employing a worker adds to the cost of doing business, and labor regulations remain stringent. In 2015, surging state-administered prices for gasoline, electricity, and transport—all heavily subsidized before the 2014 presidential election—caused inflation to reach its highest level in over a decade.
>Brazil’s average tariff rate is 7.8 percent. Brazilians may not import used consumer goods like cars and clothing. Government procurement policies favor domestic companies. Foreign investment in agricultural land is restricted. Brazil has the region’s largest financial services market. The state’s role in credit markets has grown since 2008, and public banks now account for over 50 percent of loans to the private sector.