>Debian (netinst. only use if not using systemd scares you.) debian .org/CD/netinst/ debian .org/releases/ wiki.debian .org/SourcesList wiki.debian .org/ReduceDebian debian .org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html#s-apt-get
someone please post the arch copypasta. We need it close to the top for newfriends to read.
Ian Scott
If you don't use CRUX with busybox and musl you're literally retarded
Evan Perez
ok! ^_^
Arch has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible. Arch has *never* been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled at least when there's no non-bloat related cost, feature-packed/complex GNU tools, nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages, etc. Apparently the vim package used to pull in X at one point. It also uses (((systemd))) and switching to something else is hard. Debian, while using systemd, also has a more minimal kernel, and splits packages more, so it's kept around.
Despite its """minimal""" install state, Arch is actually very bloated.
Angel Cooper
Also here's that autistic minimalism rant
The thing for me when it come to this is that I'm kinda disgusted by the amount of bloat in popular applications and environments.
Let's take the picture viewer as an example. What does it do? That's right! It views pictures! We have also seen picture viewers that can run with very tiny amounts of ram, and do their job pretty well. Why then should we be using a picture viewer that does the exact same practical thing as this minimal picture viewer, but is 10+ times heavier?
I've heard this a lot, the whole "lel just get a newer computer grandpa!" I'd like to let you know that I use minimal setups both on a 2012 Fagbook Pro, and a Xeon workstation being used as a desktop. Both of these have 16+ GB of memory. What you have to understand is that just because we have the resources, doesn't mean it's right to use them to the limit. Why should we artificially use more resources for the same tasks just because we have the capability to do it. That's retarded. At that point we should just rewrite the kernel in electron because clearly anyone who has a problem with that just needs to download more wam.
Another key component for me is that achieving a high level of minimalism often involves switching to a vey terminal-heavy lifestyle. This is good as it provides a universal interface. The interface used to shitpost, consume content, and whatnot, is the same interface that would be used when administering a server, when configuring my NAS, when working with Amazon EC2 installations, etc.
Why do you hate keeping things simple? Why do you want things to use more resources than they have to to complete their function?
TL;DR: /minimalism/ is a very logical way of doing things, and provides a universal interface.
Eli Peterson
>no twm dropped
Nolan Allen
not my benchmark. >busybox and musl you mean Alpine?
Matthew Thompson
You can use it on CRUX too
Mason Flores
ftfy, faggy boyo now it's less "arch is bad" and more "it is what it is"
Arch has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible. Arch has *never* been minimalist... it has nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages. It also uses systemd. Debian use it too, but splits packages more so it's kept around even if it's not that minimal either. Despite its "minimal" install state, Arch is not as minimal as Debian.
Brayden Nguyen
how do I set searx as my search engine in qutebrowser? I just need to know what to enter in the settings menu.
Matthew Roberts
Daily reminder that the autistic minimalism rants talks about resources and number of packages are not a resource. More packages also means more tools who do their job and less packages who do anything and everything.
Aiden Sullivan
oh, I forgot to say hello to faggy op. hii ^_^
Sebastian Bell
Pale Moon vs QupZilla
Which is less bloated?
Anthony Lopez
id probably say qupzilla
although, frankly, you're probably better off with pale moon for add-on support
Nathaniel Young
In the older version of qutebrowser, you can change the default search value in ~/.config/qutebrowser/qutebrowser.conf. Be sure to have something like (address)q={} or query= or whatever just follow the example of duckduckgo and also figure out how searx's queries look syntactally.
Now the new config file is called config.py I believe.
Isaac Allen
What browser do you guys use? I obly ever use it for reading text and downloading shit from libgen.io and it would be nice to be ablw to override the css of every website to a dark theme All the global dark themes ive found on userstyles.org are trash
Joshua Jackson
seamonkey, it does what i want. i don't worry about personal CSS too much because websites would end up breaking that shit after a couple months anyway
Eli Foster
I dont mean having a css for each site, but having a global dark theme for everything Anyways I found something about 20 minutes ago youtu.be/tGPeJo7Liwg but apparently surf is shit
Jose Roberts
well i mean any custom CSS is likely to break shit nowadays. but i've never used a global dark theme so i may be wrong about that
John Cooper
OP here! Thanks for the rewrite. I may add to it, change a thing or two, and then use that next time. Hello nice person!! How are you? I use Pale Moon right now. It's comfy. If you want to go full autism, maybe try a text-based browser like links or w3m. If all you do is reading and the occasional download, that may work out for you.
Kayden Cruz
Very cute myaano
Xavier Cooper
AM I MINIMAL ENOUGH YET?
Landon Price
what music player?
Hunter Moore
cmus
Charles King
thanks
Brandon Long
Good idea
I use palememe with pentadactyl
Justin Carter
>sun ra and atcq
Jace Green
Which is better? cmus or that mpd thing?
Jaxson Butler
How do you cope with the fact that palememe (or any firefox fork really) is laggy on even just slightly demanding sites?
James Jackson
>be me >"ARCH IS BLOAT" >I gotta get a decent distro cuz... you know... fuck systemd. >Install Gentoo >Got bored of having to compile everything >Install Void >XBPS sucks sooooo much! >I can't wait to come back to Arch.
Gentoo is pretty nice but I don't wanna waste my time for such a minimal benefit.
Void is pretty decent but there are a shit ton of missing packages in the repo.
Jeremiah Ross
minimalism is a mental illness, as evidenced by all the anime and shitposting
Oliver Campbell
add them, faggot
Nathan Rogers
Add what?
Logan Roberts
packages??????
Liam Green
I don't have to, because it isn't laggy at all.
David King
Oh... alright.
Nolan Morris
what packages do you miss exactly?
Ryder Allen
scrolling is far from smooth
Gabriel Robinson
>XBPS sucks sooooo much! Only if you're not in US or EU. Or you can't get your mirrors right >Void is pretty decent but there are a shit ton of missing packages in the repo. Kinda true. But you can always add them and others repos.
Void repo tries to be more stable while Arch has a lot off broken packages. If you like Arch stay in Arch, If you don't like systemd there are Arch alternatives without systemd. No need for you to be distro hopping.
Matthew Baker
Any of you guys know why, when I open my VNC Viewer and connect to a headless server I keep having to change the environment or the viewer crawls to a stop. Example, I log in to command line only. log out, log back in to the command line - the VNC viewers wont refresh the screens. If I then log out again and login to xfce it works great, log out log back in to xfce - its all slow again, log into command line - works great Any ideas?
Opera and Thunar. I'm using Chromium and Ranger for now. >Why do you want Thunar? I use i3 and I like to have a file manager.
My problem is about packages, not about mirrors. I've been using for Void for 3 days now and this is the ONLY thing getting me upset.
Robert Reed
bump..
Nathan Cruz
You can bet anons are lurking the rice thread atm :^)
Evan Hill
cute and hot af, but she's so dumbly hateful
Christian Brown
So what does this thread think about microkernels and microkernel OSes? Are they /minimal/? Hi daddy!
Carson Jones
I would love the Hurd to have more attention, wish it were more like Genode though since microkernels are a good idea from a security standpoint as a granular control at what goes in the kernel (minimalism by definition). Meanwhile only linux-libre is the best bet at minimalist kernels.
Matthew Rivera
Kernels have nothing to do with minimalism. Anyways microkernel and exokernel are generally considered a better choice when safety matters.
Too bad we are stuck with monolithic/hybrid kernels.
Nathan Ramirez
I know very little about the highly technical details of this stuff, but I did give Minix3 and Debian GNU/HURD (technically just Debian GNU) a try in VMs.
a LOT of things didn't work. Minix being the worst in this regard. Suckless tools generally failed to compile, at least when I attempted to get them from the packaging system, and when they did work, they didn't really work, as none of the keybinds in dwm responded to my input. Maybe i'll try to see if they'll work when grabbed from the site itself. Also, the "Equinox Desktop Environment" the user guide said would work didn't work. The best I could get was JWM through pkgsrc, and then from there I couldn't get a browser. It came with top which worked, but htop segfaulted.
Debian GNU was a bit better. I was able to get a WM setup and all that shit. It seemed much more familiar considering it's mostly Debian Sid with a different kernel. Firefox wouldn't install though, claiming that it depended on a "virtual package" that didn't exist in the repo.
Carter Evans
The Hurd would advance faster to support more software if devs weren't spergs who try to implement the perfect theoretical kernel. They stopped because one meaningless thing didn't something like they wanted, literal autism.
Christopher Garcia
>They stopped because one meaningless thing didn't something like they wanted, literal autism. wew
what about seL4 or Redox?
Oliver Harris
How does fluxbox use less RAM than openbox? I thought fluxbox was just openbox with a panel.
Joseph Ramirez
>seL4 They almost implement it in the Hurd instead of Mach. Isn't NetBSD working on the development of seL4? Not interested in Redox though, I don't see the appeal beyond promoting Rust.
Lincoln Kelly
I remember seeing something where they were going to run NetBSD's kernel under the seL4 kernel as a means of taking advantage of its drivers as a placeholder. If they can pull that off, then that would accelerate seL4 development greatly, as NetBSD supports a ton of shit.
Jordan Martinez
i love microkernels even if they aren't practical. then again i'm a nut for security by isolation and "do one thing and do it well" philosophy
Aaron Hernandez
>i love microkernels even if they aren't practical They are practical, but they are not used for personal computers
Cooper Morgan
I feel you user
Joshua Gomez
OMG Im with you! I always thought microkernels made more sense in context of the Unix philosophy. Even if original unix didn't use microkernel, it just doesn't make much sense for this OS model to have all these separated utilities that do only one thing and do it well to have a big monolithic kernel. If the userland can follow the philosophy, why not the kernel? Yeah I think that's the key thing here. Microkernels are apparently used a lot for embedded stuff, but basically nothing else...
Jack Diaz
>If the userland can follow the philosophy, why not the kernel? the sad thing is, that's becoming less true because developers (especially in the RHEL world) care more about end-user simplicity and developer job security than they do about overall simplicity (both user and development side) and security
Julian Sanchez
>If the userland can follow the philosophy, why not the kernel? Practical software care less about philosophy and more about being practical. That's why most of suckless software are good in theory and bad when you actually try them.
Life is made of compromises.
Hunter Cruz
idk, suckless software could be decent if they could get their heads out of their asses and create modular software rather than "oh shid :DD edid gonbig.h and gombile :DDDD"
Hudson Phillips
>oh shid :DD edid gonbig.h and gombile :DDDD For them, this is the correct way of doing things and it matters more than efficiency and functionality. That's the main problem.
Julian Edwards
I installed debian and somehow ended up with over a thousand packages with no DE. Where'd I go wrong? My similar arch install had about 500.
Caleb Stewart
Use the netinstall and don't selected anything besides "standard system utilities"
Nolan Adams
That's exactly what I did. Also I'm pretty sure autoremove isn't getting rid of all the unneeded dependencies
Camden Cooper
package count isn't everything. Some distros will put a bunch of shit that doesn't belong together in one package. Having appropriately packaged libraries makes it a lot easier for the right packages to get attention when issues arise. It might feel more satisfying to have less packages, but apt-get does a fine job of removing unused packages, so as long as you don't have a lot of utilities and applications you don't use installed, you probably don't have a lot of unnecessary packages.
Mason Howard
>Some distros will put a bunch of shit that doesn't belong together in one package I see makes sense. However I just tested the other issue by installing transmission >apt install downloads 46 packages >apt remove gets rid of one packages >apt autoremove gets rid of 6 packages >deborphan shows one package
David Garcia
Also the packages are still clearly on the system since reinstalling transmission only gets 7 dependencies the second time around
Michael Long
Did you read the "reduce debian" article? it's in the OP now.
>the sad thing is, that's becoming less true because developers (especially in the RHEL world) care more about end-user simplicity to be fair, that's not exactly a bad thing to shoot for. I just don't see why that simple end-user frontend can't be built on top of a well and securely-designed foundation (not to say that Linux (the kernel) is highly insecure, but microkernel does have inherent advantages.)
Really? dmenu is really good. Does exactly what one would need it to do and doesn't fuck it up. st is solid. Only issue is no scrollback, which there's a patch for. dwm is a comfy wm. I use it now. They have some solid recommendations in their rocks section. They're redpilled on the systemd issue. a lot of their other stuff is autism, but when they get it right, they get it REALLY right.
Joseph Richardson
>Opera and Thunar dude. Opera is not FOSS. You have to add the nonfree repo. xbps-install void-repo-nonfree xbps-install -Suv xbps-install opera
And Thunar is in the base repo. Check the fucking packages before saying shit like that. ffs. voidlinux.eu/packages/
Jace Robinson
>GCC is the virus which has spread into nearly every Linux distribution and has added its language extensions to be not easily replacable. As of 2016 it is now written in C++ and so complete suck. Why can’t a compiler just be a simple binary doing its work instead of adding path dependencies deep into the system? >Clang is written in C++. If you don’t believe that it sucks, try to build clang by hand. I wonder if their project does even compile under tcc + uClib
>The following programs are broken (see rocking stuff for saner alternatives): firefox, ... >Saner alternatives: a bunch of shitty web browsers and some firefox addons Does it even makes sense?
>st is solid Make a comparison with something else.
And apparently they don't care if Xorg is bloated and basically broken by design.
Gabriel Kelly
Yeah he was kind of a retard for wanting opera. but the thunar thing I can sympathize with. Void has a habit of capitalizing letters in package names in a way that is completely different from distros like debian (apparently to be more consistent with upstream?). Fortunately xbps-query searches are not case-sensitive, so it's not that big a deal.
Gavin Reed
>Did you read the "reduce debian" article? it's in the OP now. I have but I don't see anything covering my issue; I've also tried searching it, of course, but to no avail.
Carson Garcia
>wonder if their project does even compile under tcc + uClib not sure about uClib, but I know it compiles under musl. >and some firefox addons vim is comfy ok! >_< >Make a comparison with something else. Sure! It does its job as a terminal emulator extremely effectively, and with patches has all of the same functionality as the rest, while still being far smaller and lighter. I used to use it myself. I only switched to urxvt because I fell for the daemon meme, but st is a good choice. >And apparently they don't care if Xorg is bloated and basically broken by design. Yeah that's kinda dumb. I mean I think they like OpenBSD, which has the Xenocara thing which is a bit better, but still, fair point here.
Aaron Bennett
wait, so you literally just installed it using the netinstall, unchecking all the boxes, got to your shell prompt, installed screenfetch, and ended up with 1000+ packages? because i'm here to tell you that that's fake news. I installed debian myself not terribly long ago and it came with a reasonable number of packages (somewhere in the lower hundreds). Eventually it did hit over 1000, but that was after a lot of use and installing a lot of packages, without consulting that reducing debian thing, particularly the part where it talks about reconfiguring apt to not install additional packages.
Aaron Myers
>wait, so you literally just installed it using the netinstall, unchecking all the boxes, got to your shell prompt, installed screenfetch, and ended up with 1000+ packages? No, after installing all my prefered packages it was at 1000. This seemed large due to previous experience with arch but this user corrected me. However I still seem to have an issue, as stated here
Brayden Morales
>not sure about uClib, but I know it compiles under musl. Using tcc as a compiler? You cannot build your own kernel with it, that's for sure. I doubt you can even do it with clang. Maybe it's not the best compiler ever, but "it's a virus" is a strong statement. It's a software that actually do it's job.
>vim is comfy ok! >_.< But my point is you cannot say >firefox suck and it is broken, do not use it and then >these firefox-only addons rocks! you should definitely use them
>The suckless way is to have a short usage and a descriptive manpage. The complete details are in the source.
>Harmful The cat-v guy was on a whole different level of autism compared to suckless.
Angel Miller
Suckless link them to it. At some point you have to realize you should make your own opinion. Some of the stuff they say and they suggest is good and other is just retarded, I wouldn't trust too much what they say.
>The more code lines you have removed, the more progress you have made >As the number of lines of code in your software shrinks, the more skilled you have become and the less your software sucks Line counts means nothing. Some software requires an high amount of code and they shouldn't be obsessed in shrinking it more than they should. Also, they are basically buying users by saying how much other software sucks instead of actually proving how their software is better. There are no objective comparisons based on something concrete like performance analysis, memory consumption or support. Why libzahl is better than GMP? They just say GMP is shit even if it's the de-facto standard like many other software they shills about.
Ryan Phillips
I use slock (laptop brought to school and regularly left unattended for a few minutes) and it does exactly what a screen locker should do and nothing more. Still, there's what they think an ideal IRC client should look like...
Carson Wright
>look at slock >it's another config.h meme yeah i'll stick with i3lock
Christian Hughes
Suckless takes some stuff the wrong way though, if they understood more complex software needs to be created they wouldnt have problems because you have the unix philosophy there telling you you can make complex combinations out of autonomous parts, is that simple.
Dylan Flores
OpenRC or Runit? Which one do you think is best? btw I'm not talking about the distros they're attached to. Just comparing the init/service management systems.
