Why does Sup Forums and reddit shit so much over dadrock but then defend Kanye West and other hip hop artists with...

Why does Sup Forums and reddit shit so much over dadrock but then defend Kanye West and other hip hop artists with tooth and nail like it's important art?

Dadrock takes technical skill and knowledge of music to create, and that's much more than Mr West can say. What's more is that many "Wrong Generationers" often go on to learn an instrument and dive deeper even into music. Dissatisfaction with pop is a first step toward serious musical analysis that will lead people to artists inaccessible to Pitchfork drones with no sense of musicianship e.g. Ryley Walker, Cevdet Erek, Ingrid Laubrock, Max Neuhaus.

I respect the opinion of somebody who feels detached from modern pop music (which indicates intellectual independence and critical thinking skills) infinitely more than somebody who mindlessly embraces it.

Other urls found in this thread:

vtimdon.bandcamp.com/album/in-the-lantern-curls
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Yea but the le wrong generation kids embrace the pop music of the past which is still the same to what is coming out now

not exactly....

Pop music is way more formulaic than it used to be.

Nice meme faggot

There is literally nothing different with today's music than the "old days"

I hate to burst your bubble but there was formulaic drivel released back in the day too, see disco music or acdc cock rock. Most if it did what the current music will do: the uninteresting formulaic stuff will be lost to time such that only the "gems " will be left and all that will be remembered, leaving a positive slant to the "old days"

You won't hear "Fancy" in 20 years on the classics stations.

40 years ago, we had great music.
Today, we have great music.
In 40 years, we will have great music.

More music is always good

AC/DC cock rock involved musicians who knew how to compose a pop song and play instruments competently. Iggy Azalea is on the same level as Kanye West in that they both do not know how to compose pop songs or play instruments, and in that they both are heavily reliant upon studio musicians and other artists to create their music for them.

Formulaic drivel existed in the past, but it was a formulaic drivel of a higher quality (sorry to burst your bubble).

So what if they can't play an instrument?
The end product is what matters and the end product is the same.

>waaah waaah they don't play guitar so they don't have talent

Most people with hands can play a piano

That doesn't mean they have talent

I doubt Mr led zeppelin or Mr acdc can spit a technical verse like Killer Mike can

Or produce and rap over beats that push the boundaries of an entire music genre like Mc Ride can

Apples and oranges kiddo.

>b-b-but muh geetars

It's much harder to produce a good beat than it is to write a I-IV-V song

Or if it's Beatles inspired I-IV-iv-V

delivering an interesting fun GOOD piece of music is a skill, just like playing a guitar, and in fact probably a more important one.

Mu is trolling Reddit is serious because they're nigger lovers.

No, the end product is not the same. The end product of AC/DC's music was that of a gut-wrenching rock band who espoused a coherent set of ideas and had a unique grasp on the rhythmic potential of rock music. They were able to do this because they understood the basic framework of pop music composition. Iggy Azalea is indistinguishable from the dozens of other plastic and corporate made celebrities for whom musical ability is secondary.

The ability to play an instrument isn't the only thing important in quality pop music (which is why I listed several other factors in my post), but it indicates dedication to the art of music and a level of musical competence and knowledge totally absent in today's commercial pop.

Killer Mike isn't a musician. He's at best a performer, a cross between an actor and a poet who fulfills the celebrity image of a revolutionary man of the people for progressives. He doesn't know how to play to music and he doesn't know how to compose a pop song; he is an empty artificial image which the audience projects their fantasies into.

>MUH GUITARS
How much Kanye West have you heard? he can create a song that's just as technically complex as anything you can find on your dad's old records, and doesn't need to pick up a guitar. Plus, if he really needed to, he could easily master any instrument.

Am taking music theory right now

This is so fucking true

I can write a nice sonata but when I sit down and try to make a rap beat or EDM track it is fucking hard

Because Sup Forums is another place on the internet where shitty teens hang out.

According to this guy vocalists are not real musicians :^)
Who woulda thunk it

older people try to appeal younger even while ridiculing themselves

younger people try to appeal older even though they are clueless still

people try to appeal the oposite of what they are

this is a law of life

>kanye can create

Lol ok he has all ghost producers

Don't know if you are trolling but Kanye is an actual accomplished musician and I'm sure Iggy knows some basic music theory

You guys are totally ignoring the first part of the post which says incredibly clearly "musicians who knew how to compose a pop song"

I don't know why you're ignoring it, maybe you think you can refute to my argument with a clichéd response to its secondary focus on instrumental ability (which is essential to composition), but you're failing miserably.

The voice is an instrument, please learn something about music before contributing to this thead.

lol20225

>he can create a song that's just as technically complex as anything you can find on your dad's old records
Bullshit, show me right now a technically complex Kanye West song.

I think production and composition are pretty much the same thing, but that's definitely different from mastering individual instruments.

Once again
>muh guitar
It is harder to throw a beat together that sounds good than to make an instrumental pop track that sounds good.

They are not automatically better at composition just because they can play guitar

Because Sup Forums, like the people they make fun of, is full of teenagers who want to prove how smart they are because they listen to mainstream western music.

Please make a beat similar to No More Parties in LA that sounds as good as it?

Wait hold on you don't know jazz theory well enough to pull samples that sound good out of your ass like Madlib can?

Once again, instrumental ability is only one part of composition, but competence is essential for truly creative music. An artist who's working with a canvas as small as that of the musical illiterate is incapable of challenging the boundaries and conventions of music and will only create another derivative product

What's not getting through to you? I want to help you. Nowhere have I said anything about guitars. You have pulled this instrument from your unoriginal imagination in a desperate attempt to criticize my hatred of clichés with yet another.

Sorry, you're trying to defend your position by arguing that because I don't have any interest in creating a hip hop beat in the middle of an argument on an anonymous image board, the said hip hop beat has value.

This doesn't follow. My musical abilities have no relation to Kanye West's music. Judging a criticism by an attack on its propagator rather than responding to his claim is fairly lazy, but it's to be expected of hip hop fans

Madlib isn't Kanye West, by the way.

>don't know jazz theory well enough
Madlib doesn't know jazz theory, he just picks out cool parts of jazz tracks. if he could actually come up with original jazz influenced beats, that would mean he knows jazz theory

Yes you can apply theory through guitar

You an also apply it to virtual synths

Yes there are people who can't compose who are on virtual synths

There are also people who can't compose but can play (instrument)

My point is all of these people existed, you just forgot about the bad ones. Most disco is literally the same chords being pumped out of a synth with a sassy black vocalist, most rock was the same 145 progression.

The cool music back then is as cool as the cool music of today because both push boundaries.

It takes talent to make good music, it always has, but now we have more mediums to express it, if they choose to shred a guitar or rap catchy tounge twisters over fire beats, that is talent.

The formulaic music of yesterday has been forgotten and the formulaic music of today will be too.

It's past your bedtime

Whelp, thread over. OP proven wrong

>it's a music is only good if it takes technical traditional skill thread

>My point is all of these people existed, you just forgot about the bad ones. Most disco is literally the same chords being pumped out of a synth with a sassy black vocalist, most rock was the same 145 progression.
The simplicity of pop music throughout history is not being questioned; you are missing the point entirely. Most if not all pop music is clichéd in varying degrees, but in modern culture it is more clichéd than ever and less essential for an artist to have musical skill. Whereas a sassy black vocalist had have a unique timbre and swing to her voice which can rightly be considered a talent, it is now possible to manufacture a celebrity with no musical knowledge or originality whatsoever through studio trickery, a team of revolving musicians, and an expensive media campaign.

What I am saying is that the sassy black vocalist or the I-iv-v cock rocker expended more effort at their craft, developed a skill, and it showed.

I notice you still have not responded to my refutation of your post, and I'm beginning to think it's because you're incapable of doing so.

No, not really. Wrong generationers are just going to keep listening to their dozen artists and never branch out.

How's 7th grade OP?

Technology put more people with less talent int the limelight

That Is true

It also introduces many new sounds and means of producing music that is allows talent to be punctuated as well.

My point is that iggy will get weeded out with time such as disco artist number 402 and the amount of effort put in won't matter because it's formulaic hot garbage regardless.

Also the more people that have access to the tech to make music and the more stuff that comes out, the more good stuff that will come out. There will be more bad stuff too but it's worth it to have more good stuff.

Nah, because I couldn't care less. There's no point in arguing with underage who's firmly stuck in his opinions.

t. someone who used to be exactly like you

i love hip-hop but fuck kanye

>Killer Mike isn't a musician

Your voice is an instrument, retard. You don't know what you're talking about.

The thing most people overlook in Hip-Hop and club music is that it is an art of pastiche.
Tou take things, cut them up and put them together again.
Or if you don't do that, you have to make your own sounds, own instruments.

Mastering synthesis is something that takes far longer than learning how to strum some strings.

Not on his first album.
Not on all the things he produced for other people.

Before College Dropout Kanye West was already was an established name in the hip-hop community.

>An artist who's working with a canvas as small as that of the musical illiterate is incapable of challenging the boundaries and conventions of music and will only create another derivative product
>A canvas as small as that

If you think hip hop is "a small canvas", then you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. There are tons of subgenres within it and hundreds of underground and experimental rappers pushing the genre everyday. The fact that you named Iggy and Kanye as examples shows just how small your scope really is.

Also, if you don't think the guitar/bass/drum setup is a small canvas to work on, then you're not really thinking critically here.

>Will only create a derivative product
You serious mate? Dadrock is much more of a circlejerk, shit is almost predictable.

>m-muh obscure subgenres being indicative of depth

If you surround something shallow with enough pseudointellectual bullshit, it'll appear intelligent. Pitchfork once sorted through the cesspool of modern pop culture in search of albums with lasting value. Then it got all inclusive and shitty so now its at the point where they waste time listening to shit like Nicki Minaj. Hip hop audiences don't want to believe the truth, that they're listening to shallow trash with the psychological complexity of a Rambo movie. So they intellectualize it and when they find 10/10 reviews for their favorite ego-worshipping idol, they feel validated.

>chugging out butt rock riffs and noodling around on a guitar takes skill

lol no, there were literally thousands of rock bands in the genre's heyday. Playing guitar takes only a minuscule amount of skill, that's why there were so many clones of popular rock bands around

Kanye is dad rap.

If you called your dad up and said "name a rapper right NOW" he would probably say Kanye West

truth


who else is dad rap?

I vote lil wayne

Bruh, you even heard College Dropout? It's mostly exclusively Kanye produced.

You're mixing up actually good rappers with this new meme shit where everyone pretends Future is a genius.

I agree, pretending mindless shit like that is good isn't helping anyone. But you need to understand that there's more to rap than what's on the surface. There's a whole plethora of rappers with lyrical complexity that isn't found in any other genre and that takes skill, much like a good guitar solo takes skill. The problem is that the most brain dead ones are the ones who get the most recognition. Although, hedonistic party music has its own place in art, too.

le right generations are a 1000 times worse than le wrong generations

anyways have you ever said "le wrong generation" in real life and realised how stupid it sounded? lol almost as dumb as the worst sjw

Is this all you do?

>He is literally unironically a stereotypical "wrong generationer"

What the fuck are you talking about? Kanye is a great producer and writes all of his tracks

you're a fucking idiot

underrated and objectively correct statement

Right, which is why it's almost entirely plagiarized soul songs with the pitch slightly altered and a drum track added

that's not right, there is way more layers to the tracks, although the strongest ideas usually play off or are based off the soul samples

>Iggy Azalea is on the same level as Kanye West
fucking sigh you clearly hate hip-hop, good for you.
anyway, probably the dumbest comment i've read all week, congratulations retard

kanye WAS a ghost producer you spastic

t. never touched an instrument in his life

t. just took his first guitar lesson last week

tripfag wrong again. 8 years of guitar retard

I agree with what you've said so far in this thread but I've heard the first album on your bandcamp and you very clearly don't know how to play guitar

The fact that you just said that playing guitar is hard already is proof that you probably really mean 8 days.

t. multi-instrumentalist, can play guitar, bass and piano

If you knew anything about guitar or experimental music you'd understand where my playing style on that record came from and what it was trying to do.

It's completely different from how I normally play either way so that's not even a close to accurate representation of my playing

shhh go listen to radiohead

playing guitar to a high level is hard. you're a fucking tripfag so fucking kill yourself

t. multi instrumentalist guitar, drums, saxophone, cello and clarinet

>almost as dumb as the worst sjw
word*

nice post

here have a (You)

>playing guitar to a high level is hard
Haha oh boy

Little babby is now pulling shit out of his ass to try and look impressive.

Anyone with over 2 years experience on the guitar and even the slightest bit of experience with another instrument knows that guitar is easy as fuck

I figured you'd say something like this

Its pretty obvious that you're just using it as an excuse
>b-but its supposed to be minimal and abstract!
no, you would create something greater if you had the talent but you don't, and you're so egocentric that you feel the need to make a pile of shit when you lack the talent and you have the balls to stand here and call it a piece of art

makes me sick

>Little babby is now pulling shit out of his ass to try and look impressive.
>makes up a load of nonsense about guitar being easy

just put yourself out of your misery

>you decided to pursue an uncharted route and not follow your strengths therefore you have no strengths

This is you right now.

It is easy. Cry harder dadrocker

>I can write a nice sonata but when I sit down and try to make a rap beat or EDM track it is fucking hard
the reverse for me t b h

I'd love for you to display to me that you have any sort of talent whatsoever

This is the "tits or gtfo" of guitar playing lmao

>unironicaly using dadrocker

>it's a tripfag says retarded shit episode

how original

How does proge mon manage to be so obnoxious in every thread when his taste in music is so shitty

That's literally what you are though.

Nice

You're so far up your own ass and you won't even back it up?

one question: why are pop music fans so defensive at all times and against all reason ? What pushes a man to write a two-paragraph rebuttal to the oldest bait in the world, a bait he has seen and answered to at least a hundred times already ?

I know most tripfags here are naïve teenagers, but you sound unusually immature and insecure.

Why do you keep trying to be passive aggressive?

>waaahhhh how is it possible that someone i don't like is good at something
>if you don't waste your time to win a pointless argument against my insecurities you're up your ass and pretentious!
Good job

>buzzword buzzword buzzword insert umlaut over naive buzzword
Cool

The word passive isn't true user

hello Sup Forumsddit

this is his playing

vtimdon.bandcamp.com/album/in-the-lantern-curls

>I can't play guitar so I'll play drone and act like it's art

You actually just did it again you're completely retarded

kek guitar truly is easy lmaoing at that faggot. try something that's actually hard and then come back

See And them keep crying

Fantastic post

If you were to display to me that you have talent then I would admit it. However you haven't displayed that and you refuse to for some reason, I wonder why

this

LMAO

See And then keep trying to anger me into doing it. Emphasis on trying.

>Taiwan
makes sense

This reeks of samefaggotry.

tripfag BTFO

wouldnt say its bad desu. you faggots are just riled up because the tripfag challenges your fragile egos

You would love that wouldn't you? Keep trying. Wow, this is a great post.

Fantastic!