Why is Discord and IRC still a thing when Riot is so much better?

Why is Discord and IRC still a thing when Riot is so much better?

Other urls found in this thread:

gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
totallysafe.website
banter.city
totallysafe.website/#/room/#general:banter.city
matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-irc
martix.org
matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-xmpp
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Never heard of it

now I have

Discord because soyim love gamerfag shit
Irc because its a nice way to get away from newfags

Get out shill, or give me a vouch copy

atrocious design not even developers like... how do they think is this supposed to be usable by the average joe?

discord has more chinkbux for shilling

>why do people use the social network with all the actual people and social interaction instead of immediately jumping ship to the new one with better technology
you thought google+ was gonna replace facebook and cripplechan was gonna replace Sup Forums too, didn't you

riot is simply a chat client for the matrix server standard
and it appears someone has written a "matrix-to-discord-bridge" which is currently in alpha
but for this to work you a.) need all your favorite discord servers to manually approve the matrix-bridge bot and b.) need a server of your own to run matrix and the bridge addon, or you need to find someone else with said server

and of course if you go through all these steps you end up still getting all your info logged and sold off by discord. but at least you have a free software client to get your info stolen through.

Riot depends on node.js

i like Riot, but it definitely needs a year or two to iron out issues

it's quite buggy and runs like garbage.

Riot is a bloated slow piece of shit that doesn't let me disable read receipts and Matrix server is also a resource hungry piece of shit.
I want to like it, I really do, but you should've really optimized this shit. Fucking Discord is smoother.

They are both fucking trash.
XMPP and IRC are the goat messaging platforms.

>giving proprietairy cucks access to your servers
Why do they keep doing this? All those modern foss developers port and bridge their stuff for proprietairy normies to use it because they want to extent their userbase but all they accomplish with it is taking away every reason for not-nerds to switch to foss. If things like firefox and vlc weren't available on window the people who care 'just a little bit' would switch to linux too. Matrix isn't very popular right now but if it gets more nice groups nobody will have to switch to it cus there's a bridge available for every fucking botnet. Sad.

you are confusing RMS's own "free software" with the lesser "open source"
gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
These are not principled devs who free and share their code for moral or political reasons.
They are just people trying to develop a product, who have for whatever reasons decided that an open source dev philosphy is more pragmatic and better able to achieve their goal. (In this case, the goal is to create an interconnected "standard communication protocol" for the web.) Mozilla was the same. They started off as a wholly owned subsidiary of AOL, developing an open source browser FOR AOL based on the Netscape code that AOL also owned.

Also fyi that bridge doesn't give proprietary cucks access to your servers. It is your software running on your server, ferrying messages back and forth between matrix and a (non-proprietary) discord bot. There are similar "bridge" modules for other communication protocols including slack, plus free and open ones like irc and xmpp. Their goal, of course, is to keep the matrix network alive, because if using a matrix server means you can't talk to anyone except the dozen other nerds running matrix servers, nobody's gonna bother to do it and the network will be stillborn.

I wish there was a feature complete client for Matrix that wasn't web-based shit like Riot.

their website claims there is an emacs client but doesn't link to it anywhere

I doubt it's feature complete since none of the clients I've tested are.

discord is fine for what it does, there is no valid reason to dislike it besides Sup Forums memes

Yeah ok I chose the wrong examples (their intention is indeed not very stallmanian) but it's the same for all GPL-licensed stuff. It's basically in the core of the free software mentality that everyone should have access to it but I think it's working against it at this point.

Because they failed to compete with the big guys it changed into this pretty desperate "please use our software you can have it you don't even need to support the idea pls pls pls" kinda thing where it's considered top priority that you 'don't even have to leave windows 10' and in this case that the discord community 'doesn't even have to leave their proprietairy client'. I'm sure it will attract (a small amount of) new users but it also takes the spirit out of foss.

I think it would be good if foss was more targeted at its own community. That we have our own software and our own chats etc that aren't being whored out for normies who aren't gonna use it at this point anyway. It would give neckbeards back their spirit and makes it easier to focus solely on improving linux and it's software so it gets better. Thanks to all the N*A leaks privacy is getting an issue for more people and I think the 'elite group of botnet-free people who you can only join by using free software yourself idea' would attract more edgy teens to use it than the failed normie bait they're offered today.

Trojans are fine for what they do, there no valid reason to dislike them besides Sup Forums memes

...

>Riot
looks like utter shit

facebook probably does the same shit, the usebase simply doesn't care. It's too convenient

So does everything else

>js

Lack of marketing. Nobody has ever heard of it. If you want people to use Riot, shill shill shill.

Looks fucking shit.

Next time actually think about the UI before you ship it, freetard software never does well for this reason alone, I guess any good frontend designer doesn't work for free lmao

...

Nah Discord has far more polish than Riot. If you can't tell then you're either blind or have never used Discord.

Riot looks so much more polished and streamlined than Discord.

What are some of the things that's bad with Riot

Riot/Matrix needs communities (what Discord calls servers) like Discord does.

if the theme was black, and if the UI was a bit more polished to look like Discord with all of Riot's features, it'd pretty much be the 10/10 chat client.

out of curiosity, who is hosting Matrix?

t. Riot dev

You are delusional if you think it looks better than Discord.

>if the theme was black
There's a dark theme but it's more grey than black.

>who is hosting Matrix?
Matrix is a decentralized network of "homeservers", users on any homeserver can talk to users on any other homeserver (unless one of the homeserver admins disables that feature obviously). The main matrix.org homeserver is hosted by the Matrix project afaik. There are others run by various individuals/groups, I run one for my family and friends.

>What are some of the things that's bad with Riot
It's still in alpha, the user interface bugs out sometimes as does making initial connections or sending images very occasionally.

I use it daily though and it's fine, the issues are usually of the "try it a second time and it works" variety.

>looks is everything

t. sub 80 IQ retard

well that sucks, so anyone running these servers can see everything you say

Welcome to the real world, where cognitive overhead will make and break your web product/service. If you developed software you'd value an easy to use UI long before you consider performance.

Software is useless if nobody wants/knows how to use it.

command line for lyfe

IRC is love and life

No.
1. Only servers involved in a room are privy to that room, so if you're on serverA and talking to somebody on serverB, only those two servers get the messages, not some serverC.
2. There is end-to-end encryption available which removes the server's ability to read your messages.
3. The infrastructure owner being able to read the messages is the status quo on Discord, Skype, Snapchat, Kik and almost every other messaging platform out there, except they don't provide end-to-end encryption as an alternative.

what's preventing someone from logging it though

Who logging it? What threat model are we talking about here?

is it just me or does the logo look like an axe

Purple-discord for pidgin is way easier to use than that.

>it would look good if it looked like discord
That would be retarded. Both clients look bad, discord looks even worse.

Discord looks like utter garbage, stop being a fanboy.

See above. You most likely think discord looks good because "muh dark theme xD", underage faggot.

Show me something you think looks good.

...

>Discord looks like utter garbage,
So Riot looks worse than utter garbage? Glad you agree with me.

>See above. You most likely think discord looks good because "muh dark theme xD", underage faggot.
I never said Discord looks good, I said it looks more polished than Riot. Maybe you should learn to read before you start developing software.

Give me a reason a VoIP client needs to look good at all. Mumble, teamspeak, Wire, Riot, Discord, FB Messenger, they all look just as good as they should. They look bad, but they're functional. The list of all contacts or servers is where I need them. After I'm connected I don't need the UI anymore. Except in case of sharing files or texting, in which case there's absolutely nothing wrong with either client, except Mumble/TS which aren't made to be instant messengers. If the edgy dark themes are so important to you then make one manually. They're all shitty electron apps so it's easy.

Looks even worse than discord.

>can't read
>tells others they need to learn to read
See >Both clients look bad, discord looks even worse.
Glad we at least agree that discord looks like utter garbage. Show me this HUGE difference between Riot and Discord then. Because I don't see it.

>Give me a reason a VoIP client needs to look good at all. Mumble, teamspeak, Wire, Riot, Discord, FB Messenger, they all look just as good as they should. They look bad, but they're functional.
Uh, this is serious some projection. I don't give a shit about the philosophy of UI attractivenvess, I just want to know what somebody who thinks Discord/Riot are bad thinks is good.

>wtf is RIOT
>Discord uses hyperlinks
>No Dedicated server

>>wtf is RIOT
>>Discord uses hyperlinks
>>No Dedicated server
What the fuck is any of this meant to mean?

Agreed. Normies don't want to be saved.

lmfao what is facebook convenient for retard?

people keep their facebook because they feel like they need to or they're dumb as rocks or someone's auntie, that's it

>Give me a reason a VoIP client needs to look good at all.
OP wants people to use it.

>can't read
"No you"

>Show me this HUGE difference between Riot and Discord then. Because I don't see it.

1. Virtually no consideration of visual hierarchy or primary/secondary actions.
2. Tiny icons with no context, how is the user supposed to know what these mean? The icons at the bottom right have hover states so why are these special?
3. Why is this disabled content? What is it bringing in terms of value here?

>Why is this disabled content? What is it bringing in terms of value here?
It's not.
The Matrix protocol has a presence feature, those icons should be lit up or grayed out depending on whether or not the user in question is online. However for the alpha phase of development the idiots wrote the homeserver reference implementation in Python and the presence feature produced too much load for the Python implementation to take.
This is an issue, but it's not a UI issue, it's a backend server issue.

Cluttering the UI with irrelevant or unactionable content is a UI problem as well. Are you actually a Riot dev or one of the spergweebs whining because Discord isn't IRC?

>Cluttering the UI with irrelevant or unactionable content is a UI problem as well.
Agreed, I think the UI could be a lot better.

>Are you actually a Riot dev or one of the spergweebs whining because Discord isn't IRC?
I'm just a Matrix early adopter who wants to see the protocol take off.

where's the daynk maymays in you're pick related'`?
is there a dark theme availabile to used?
can take to spenger kukundu then send mp4's to friend or no?

Oh, so you're retarded.
1. Goes away once you log in.
2. Icons are self explanatory. 1st shows members, 2nd files shared, 3rd your notifications.
3. Disabled content? What are you talking about? You can hide this entire section if it bothers you so much.

>OP wants people to use it.
How is this an argument?

You haven't even used it and you're complaining, so your opinions are irrelevant.

Some us (and some from 8ch too probably) have our own dedicated server at banter.city.
Just make sure that when registering your account (if you haven't done so already), make sure to use matrix.org for authentication server, but for the actual matrix server, use banter.city or any other server that allows online/offline notifications, since by default matrix.org (and riot.im?) doesn't. When you do, join #general:banter.city or make your own specific rooms for your own specific needs.

But you can disable them, when was the last time you used it?

They technically have them already in the code but not properly implemented (like Discord), so soon™

It has a dark theme+next update will get customizable themes.

But they have encryption, using the Double Ratchet algorithm popularised by Signal.

use Wire

>Why is Discord and IRC still a thing when Riot is so much better?
Use telegram

Use Matrix

1. Once again you've missed the point massively. The problem highlighted is lack of visual hierarchy not the fact there are login/register buttons.

2. No they aren't. The fact that you're explaining them to me proves this.

3. Talking about UI states don't bother.

What is riot?

>The fact that you're explaining them to me proves this.
It only proves that you're dumb as fuck

There is no point.

The open source web-based client for the Matrix communication network. Available in-browser and as a desktop/mobile app for all major OSes.

Literally never heard of it before. Go shill somewhere else.

>create a similar looking and more privacy focused "alternative" to a already estabilished thing
>it's not used
wow who would've thought? how many times has this happened again? oh yeah five hundred million times

Instant Messaging is technology and Matrix is the best protocol for it.

Anyone who wants to check Riot out can try out Sup Forums's own Web Gateway at totallysafe.website and register a banter.city account there.

totallysafe.website/#/room/#general:banter.city is where everyone hangs out.

except it isn't, the spec is shit and the client implementations are shit

>the spec is shit
why

What a surprise, no response...

>JS
>Electron bs
Tell me... How is this any better?

Just use a different client.

>open source client
>one client of many options
>for an open protocol standard
>for a decentralized network
>with end to end encryption
If only I could work out what's better about it...

So... basically xmpp but with shitty electron implementations only?

>The infrastructure owner being able to read the messages is the status quo on Discord, Skype, Snapchat, Kik and almost every other messaging platform out there, except they don't provide end-to-end encryption as an alternative.
Devil's advocate here: a proprietary system where one central authority (plus NSA) has the power to snoop is FAR better than a decentralized system where arbitrary peers can set systems up to snoop.

This will theoretically be less of a problem once their encryption system is less buggy (?) and they upgrade it from beta opt-in to on-by-default with opt-out. Servers can still see metadata of encrypted messages (like destination and time sent), but can't read their text.

hey Sup Forums lets make a chat server+client system where server owners can themselves decide what type of content can be sent along with messages.

I'll make the logo

Possibly? I don't know a lot of about XMPP, I mostly picked it because it had a shitty Electron implementation (when you're trying to convince people to move over from Discord it's a must).

which retard invented the giant ugly speech bubbles in messaging clients
they've been terrorizing me and my phones for years

Why do all these shitty flavor-of-the-month chat services keep popping up and dying over and over again when irc still works totally fine?

IRC clients don't really have good support for media content. There's also no way to publicly exchange media content either without employing other services. It's built for text and at this time it's not exactly enough for most people.

>a proprietary system where one central authority (plus NSA) has the power to snoop is FAR better than a decentralized system where arbitrary peers can set systems up to snoop.
I can certainly see the argument for that, but I would infinitely rather it was one or two neckbeard weirdos than an organization with the capability to store the data indefinitely, analyze it and persecute people on the basis of it.

>This will theoretically be less of a problem once their encryption system is less buggy
What's theoretical about it and what requires it to be less buggy? Are there outstanding unpatched attacks against megolm that are feasible for and known to your local system administrator?

>and they upgrade it from beta opt-in to on-by-default with opt-out.
Not sure this will happen. End-to-end encryption in Riot is complicated (requiring approval of every device you use from every other device you use, as well as approval of every peer you talk to's devices from every device you use) such that I think it would seriously hurt their adoption if it was the default.

It's not really a service in the sense that Discord is, more a bag of open source components. As for why, they believe IRC is shit:
matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-irc

matrix is irc compatible :^)
the devs even say on the faq that they coordinate most of their development through irc rather than their own product

>what requires it to be less buggy?
The devs.
>We are deliberately keeping E2E opt-in during the beta as there is a small risk of undecryptable messages, and we don’t want to lull folks into a false sense of security. As soon as we are out of beta, we will turn E2E on for any room with private history by default. Another consideration is to give other clients a chance to catch up with E2E support before it’s used by default.

>What's theoretical about it
It's not yet mandatory or at least default-on and has no clear timeline for becoming so, other than "when encryption is out of beta".
If encryption is not mandatory or default-on, norms will not use it. If 90% of people do not use it, and you want to actually interact with these people or their communities, your conversations will be unencrypted and thus vulnerable.

>As soon as we are out of beta, we will turn E2E on for any room with private history by default.
I'm surprised by this honestly, but okay.

>you want to actually interact with these people or their communities, your conversations will be unencrypted and thus vulnerable.
I have turned it on in conversations with several "norms", all have coped. Groups are more of a problem, but past a certain group size we get into "no reasonable expectation of privacy" territory anyway. I don't expect privacy when I speak into a thousand user IRC channel no more than I do shouting in a crowded street.

>HTTP, WebRTC, UK Based.
>All functional implementations are made on memescript.
IRC is fucking outdated with text-only support but it is highly superior to this piece of shit.
Just use XMPP.

>buttons not immediately obvious
i dont see a problem here. test it, use it, no problem.
but i guess everyone is used to being spoon fed every tiny bit of information.

...

>soyim
Nice.

just use martix.org

People settled into a product and won't jump ship until it becomes unusable, even if something ultimately better is available.

It's why people held onto skype for so long.

It is very different from xmpp. I would enumerate those differences for you, but luckily the matrix devs did already.

Go read this: matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-xmpp

>UI before working code
Whoah, so this is why proprietary software is all wheezy garbage underneath.

Foe Riot itself, e2e crypto could be handled better.
The Synapse server daemon is a horrific pig whale that can bring a dual socket Xeon to its knees. The faster, more scalable replacement (Dendrite) isn't done yet.

Room admins can force on e2e for a room.

riot is fucking shit though.