>There has been no attempt to move the smallest parts of the ecosystem, to provide replacements for base POSIX utilities.
>There is a rampant fiction that if you supply a new safer method everyone will use it. For gods sake, the simplest of concepts like the stack protector took nearly 10 years for adoption, let people should switch languages? DELUSION.
>Adding such a toolchain would take make build time from 40 minutes to hours. I don't see how that would happen.
>Are they POSIX compliant? No.
>Such ecosystems come with incredible costs. For instance, rust cannot even compile itself on i386 at present time because it exhausts the address space.
>Consider me a skeptic -- I think these compiler ecosystems face a grim bloaty future.
HOW CAN RUST EVER POSSIBLY START TRYING TO REMOTELY EVEN BEGIN RECOVERING?!?!?
Unlike the sensible language Kotlin, Rust is not truly crossed-platform, since years they have said it will be but there is no support for architurctures rather than x64.
Joshua Gomez
jesus christ
hipsters need to fuck off
like what the fuck do they think they're doing campaigning for meme languages to contaminate everything
Jaxson Wilson
>rust cannot even compile itself on i386 i agree with most of what he said, but i don't understand this criticism at all
Bentley Davis
>How can Rust ever possibly start trying to remotely even begin recovering? easy, ignore OpenBSD existence until it dies out (soon)
Gabriel Barnes
C can compile itself even on microcontrollers
Alexander Cook
Why does Rust code need to compile on i386? It's not like Theo de Raadt expects OpenBSD to compile on an Intel 4004.
Jaxon Kelly
Rust isn't truly portable, is what he's saying, since the minimum memory required for it to build itself (above the 4GB limit x86 has) is exorbitantly high. Whether you agree or disagree with him is fine.
Carson Edwards
still doesn't fully explain the criticism unless he's worried rust is somehow taking over
it isn't
Angel Morris
>t.
Jonathan Evans
>For instance, rust cannot even compile itself on i386 at present time because it exhausts the address space. Wow, it's like languages with strong safety guarantees and opportunities for optimizations require complex code analysis!
Brayden Fisher
>you need at least 4GB of RAM just to compile the most basic aspect of your language
Theo is absolutely correct about this being a pajeet-tier webdev thing.
Ian Young
By that logic, OpenBSD isn't truly portable because it can't compile on an Intel 8086 (the original x86 processor). Don't get me wrong, I think OpenBSD is great, but you can't expect all future software to run on ancient legacy hardware like i386.
Isaiah Green
You need to explain this.
Jonathan Gonzalez
When he says 'build itself', he's talking about a compiler. OpenBSD is not a compiler, it's a fucking OS. Imagine if gcc needed a fucking supercomputer to compile
Jacob Long
Oh, I myself disagree with him, even though I wrote that paraphrasing. I totally agree with you. Truly, I hope that at some point, even amd64 is considered legacy, while risc-v is the normal architecture for desktop use.
Jonathan Powell
Rust does run on 32-bit x86 though.
Carter Powell
Please explain why Rust needs to compile on i386, in the context of OpenBSD, an OS which is mainly used on servers
William Jones
>java shitlang >sensible
Robert Brown
gcc and clang can't compile themselves on an 8086 either. A modern x86-64 processor is hardly a supercomputer by today's standards. At some point you need to drop support for legacy processors.
Carter Bailey
Rust does compile for i386.
Lucas Hughes
That's not possible if it needs more than 4GB of ram.
Luke Wood
>an OS which is mainly used on servers I don't think you understand what OpenBSD is about. How about reading about the project's philosophy first?
Anthony Morales
Academically, if you run software you haven't compiled yourself, you show you trust the person who compiled it for you. In such a situation, it means all people who solely have access to x86 machines trust someone else for Rust binaries. They should move to 64 bit already, but that's a separate issue.
Oliver White
You can cross-compile, brainlet.
Thomas Powell
I mean what's the point of Rust? I'm not an expert programmer by any means but whatever Rust is doing C++/C can do well enough and both languages have plenty libraries, too. I hear people say that Rust is safer but if you can't manage memory yourself then you might as well use Java.
Justin Richardson
Does the philosophy include running/compiling on an 8086 processor?
Asher Ross
That's if you have a cross compiler, building those requires special configuration steps and is twice as hard
Anthony Fisher
>I don't think you understand what OpenBSD is about Like this matters. I understand why he doesn't feel the need to cater to the whims of the users, and has no control how the OS is used. But if he wanted to focus on supporting deprecated hardware, he probably should have never left NetBSD.
Daniel Bell
It does include running self-contained on a few legacy architectures, since that's beneficial in several ways.
Carson Baker
>Rust does run on 32-bit x86 though that's different than the process of compiling it's compiler toolchain. keep lurking, adults are talking
Michael Cox
You're moving the goalposts, the fact of the matter is rust does run on 32-bit x86. Just look here, there are many 32-bit builds available: static.rust-lang.org/dist/ >if you can't manage memory yourself then you might as well use Java The "managed code" meme turned out to be a poor solution to C's drawbacks. And memory management isn't as easy as you suggest, even experienced, competent, knowledgeable, seasoned developers commit buffer overflows constantly in C. It's just a bad language.
John Morales
>if you can't manage memory yourself so literally a large chunk of C/C++ developers then. There's a reason why FireFox leaks memory like a motherfucker, and why Mozilla was the one to back rust.
Mason Ward
I was replying to posters who were implying it can't run on that platform, not that it can't build itself on that platform. Adults read the entire conversation, kid.
Cooper Hill
He got kicked out of netBSD because their other devs are retatds There is even a quote of one netBSD guy years later saying they fucked themselves over by running theo out And where is netBSD now?
Nathaniel Nelson
On toasters.
Caleb Smith
>It's just a bad language. I guess that's true but imho Rust isn't much better. Yup, not a language for brainlets like me.
I thought this was the most informative of the mail.
Jonathan Harris
I was about to post that People dont realize that with competent programmers (which openBSD is completely full of), C and Rust's only difference is speed
Adam Kelly
>There's a reason why FireFox leaks memory like a motherfucker
Because Firefox devs are highly incompetent? Modern C++ offers multiple memory management solutions, you can even add a full fledged GC into your C++ program if you're pajeet enough.
Mason Ramirez
>supporting deprecated hardware so you didn't read about the philosophy then. It's less about actual "support", and more of a litmud test to ensure code bloat is kept to a minimum. Nobody actually gives a shit about the handful of i386 users, but if the code can't run on what was a perfectly viable computer less than 20yrs ago, it better have a damn good reason for being there.
>he probably should have never left NetBSD and then what, sacrifice all the improvements OpenBSD has made because NetBSD wouldn't merge them? You're just talking out of your ass.
Logan Gonzalez
Exactly Like 90% of people writing code are incompetent as shit when it comes to security, they just apply whatever they learned in CS or on their own, and dont even get started on Pajeets
Dylan Price
>Because Firefox devs are highly incompetent? Was there someone capable left working at mozilla after 2014?
James Fisher
nobody said they weren't incompetent user, you just have to accept that that's the case for most C++ devs.
>I'm on Debian but OpenBSD looks wonderful you should dump debian right now and go for it
yeah, the transition is totally smooth
Logan Sullivan
Please explain why a programming language needs >4GB to compile. I have rarely went over 4GB when running make -j 4. If this Rust can't be set up to compile with the entire address space of i386 then it isn't ready for prime time yet.
Charles White
It's a backdoor way to insert a CoC into any project's cunt
Angel Morgan
>It's a backdoor way to insert a CoC into any project's cunt
Sup Forums was rigth about CoC of Rust and shills
John Taylor
Fucking CoC is the cancer of the entirety of FOSS
Joseph Edwards
calm down Sup Forums
Brody Rodriguez
>OpenBSD >mainly used on servers If it's a good OS it will be used But nothing on the project goals specify servers >openbsd.org/goals.html Just read those goals and tell me if there is another OS as based as OpenBSD Truly the last good OS
Jeremiah Wilson
Not Sup Forums, and you should at least be a BIT aware that when semantics are more important than code quality, is when things go south I like openBSD, ive used it for a decade and it is as stable as they get I wouldn't want that ruined over some retards sense of """justice"""
Jayden Price
Rust developers need learn No means No
Thomas Moore
pretty much, though it's a bit outdated now, since it doesn't include FeministBSD's Social Justice Coding design philosophy.
Jack Rivera
I fear what might happen to openBSD after Theo is gone
Carter Parker
>Hah GCC needs more 1MB to run. It's not unreasonable for a compiler to use more than 4096MB!
Nolan Martinez
don't worry, unlike with Linux, there are plenty of based developers on the OpenBSD team to go around.
Nathaniel Nguyen
I've seen it said here that Linus has already picked his successor. Do we know anything about his leadership style?
Dominic Perry
>Kotlin >cross platform JVM is literally the least portable thing in existence
Matthew King
>Linus will die in your lifetime Do you think people will jump ship to BSD in droves afterwards? Or will things be too fucked by then?
Jeremiah Watson
>Don't get me wrong, I think OpenBSD is great, but you can't expect all future software to run on ancient legacy hardware like i386. Intels ME runs on an embedded i486
Joseph Stewart
>And where is netBSD now? Where is OpenBSD now?
Nathaniel Lewis
The forces that look to tear apart free software projects from the inside don't scare most people away. That's how they operate. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. You won't see a a huge coordinated movement to the BSDs. If the project starts to turn the software to shit you will see a slow migration as different camels can't support different numbers of straws before failing.
A good portion of Linux users are just going to ride it out. Look how many people on this board put up with Windows to this day. Ever since Ubuntu bundled amazon software with their distro I've known I should have a plan. Ever since Firefox started it's shenanigans I've known I should have a plan. Firefox plan has already went in to action due to the universal backdoor.
Jordan Green
On all my machines for one
Alexander Evans
Even OpenBSD songs are good How can an OS be so based?
Wyatt Morgan
Rust is far from a pajeet brainlet webdev language tho
Chill out faggot from Sup Forums is a free speech zone
Leo Bennett
then why did Rust hire Ashley Williams after her NodeJS scandal? :^)
Xavier Butler
I had no idea of this "incident" and omg, this is crazy Clearly the Code-of-Conduct is code-word for "discriminate against all white straight males" One more reason to hate rust I guess
Jordan Collins
Social support
Christopher Ramirez
FreeBSD just adopted the Geek Feminism CoC.
Jonathan Jenkins
wasn't that old as FUCK and then they kicked that bitch out anyways?
William Cox
I hear Rust foundation is replacing all the white male coders with rainbow haired black genderless webdevs with purple hair.
Benjamin Johnson
Great
David Taylor
yeah, that's how bad it is. They had to remove the line about specifically stating white men couldn't make complaints but never actually clarified a new interpretation.
Samuel Gray
What about not having a CoC
Adam Wood
but then how do you witchhunt people you don't like for vague political labels while simultaneously #KillAllMen'ing?
Eli Myers
>#KillAllMen'ing Hey you also means #KillAllJewMens
Zachary Brown
NO, ONLY WRONGTHINKERS.
Kevin Lee
Reminder that Redox OS, a microkernel + OS, is itself unused by Rust programmers. That speaks volumes alone, because it Rustfags had any conviction, they're be using Redox.
Elijah Bailey
Instead they beg everyone else to write their code in rust lol
Colton Cruz
easy, be stuck in 90s (both mentally and technologically)
Angel Carter
>BASED FOO BTFO BAR OUT OF THE GODDAMN FUCKING WATER >HOW CAN BAR EVER POSSIBLY START TRYING TO REMOTELY EVEN BEGIN RECOVERING?!?!? >2017-12-03 Look, I agree with the lad, but this is old shit and there's no need to embarrass yourself with such MLG-tier posts tho
Thomas Moore
The battle of the irrelevant.
Henry Wright
OpenBSD is not really used anywhere, user. I agree with their aim and all that, but they really have no presence anywhere. (sadly)
Bionic is a distant fork and their ssh used everywhere. This is all the fame they can have thanks to their narrow mindedness
Isaac Smith
Stop infecting technology you piece of shit, we all know all of this is just to destroy projects
Cooper Bell
>rainbow haired >with purple hair
Hunter Fisher
I hate freebsd, the cuck license also George Neville-Neil is fucking liar, but they still don't deserve all the shit because some crappy text pasted from a site that triggers some manchildren. Also fuck back to plebbit with your bullshit.
Ethan Sanders
>fame > good code with good security their """narrow mindedness""" is the reason OpenBSD's a solid piece of tech in the first place you imbecile
Alexander Nguyen
>didn't read the core team's responses and defense of that bullshit you're the one that needs to go back /r/eddtard
Jonathan Sanchez
Its nowhere near usable. It just became capable of running the rust compiler like a month ago.
