/classical/ general - german music is a waste edition

Post assorted non-German pieces

youtube.com/watch?v=2-Bjp9jptbM

youtube.com/watch?v=mNI8iLWGyFU

youtube.com/watch?v=u3MqFP0-ekU

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=mXIltZCAaxE
youtube.com/watch?v=0mnrHf7p0jM
youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
youtube.com/watch?v=EzZltbtAl4c
youtube.com/watch?v=k3tvtdnkwQI
youtube.com/watch?v=AUlLo6xUb5c
youtube.com/watch?v=1-UERSppbqQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

wagner was a wonderful husband to cosima.

>implying Friedrich Chopin wasn't a German composer and the most assiduous student of Bach and Mozart after Beethoven and before Brahms

>Debussy a better husband than Wagner

youtube.com/watch?v=mXIltZCAaxE

youtube.com/watch?v=0mnrHf7p0jM

>I know how to copypaste links tihi

OP seems to be a massive faggot.

what makes you say that?

Newclassicalfag here.

What are some essential avant-garde or dadaist composers worth checking out? I only know of the veeeeery entry level American John Cage.

Where to now?

Wagner does not in any way appear to have a dinarized skull shape like that drawing, even the forehead slope is wrong.

Compare to an actual dinaric like Mussolini.

Also, what does german mean in this context? Specifically Saxons and Weimaric composers or does it also include Austro-Hungarians?

It's pretty self explanatory.

Apart from the sincerely devout Olivier Messiaen, the strangely völkisch Alban Berg, the truly academic Xenakis and the reactionary Partch, modern and post-war music is quite worthless.

Listen to Mozart.

thanks friend. I'll check these out.

>Implying Neidhart von Reuental and Walther von der Vogelweide weren't the GOAT Minnesangers of the middle ages
Only Classical era to modern era German music is shit

Relevant video.

youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY


Mozarella and Bach are alright though, being a based austrian and hungar respectively.

Can anyone post the pastebin link to the classical archive?

nevermind, found it.

>grouping Berg and Xenakis together
???

He was asking for simply "avant-garde" and I already mentioned that this includes both modern and post-war music.

I also simply picked the composers of this time I think it's worth listening to, which is as you can see very few. Maybe I would also include Grisey, because he was, albeit unconsciously approaching some of the same neo-primitive ideas Partch was.

Man, with your political sympathies, how could you forget Varese?

The Wagner one is accurate as fuck, and by no means stereotyping. Egocentric, smeary chads will look like that. Trust me, I have experience. Yeah and Wagner is shit, too.

Sincerely saying "chad" and using that category to make sense of reality is slave morality, my friend.

No small wonder you can't see Wagner's genius. :)

>The Wagner one is accurate as fuck

apart from the fact that, by all accounts, wagner was a wonderful husband to cosima?

He is far too nihilistic for me.

Don't post le edgy mustache man on here again

Thank you

Just because most people get him terribly wrong doesn't mean he's not essential reading.

fair enough

*tips fedora*

if only for his wonderful prose. terrific writer.

Yeah, he's also a better Hegelian philosopher than virtually all self-proclaimed Hegelians in the 19th century.

They worked for me.
Except that Wagner's head looked nothing like that and he was a good husband.

If anything, Wagner should be shamed for being a terrible friend and an ingrate in just about every respect.

>supports Nietzsche who autistically hated Wagner for not following in his fedora, atheist footsteps
>calls Wagner a bad friend

Controversial opinion: The magian Wagner of Tannhäuser and Parsifal is in every way superior to the faustian Wagner.

He denigrated Wagner for shying away from the problem of modernity by taking refuge in a a bad-faith Christianity and Antisemitism - and rightly so.

As for the "fedora, atheist" thing, Nietzsche's attacks scientism as a symptom of a degenerating Christianity that overcame itself in "On the Genealogy of Morals". To Nietzsche, fedorite Dawkins fanboys are, ultimately, crypto-Christians.

wagner actually discussed nietzsches masturbation habit with nietzsches physician behind his back. not very nice.

>the jewbag views antisemitism as a bad thing
Of course.

Wagner's best movements and motifs are overshadowed by the countless overstreched parts in his operas, one spends waiting for something interesting to happen. For all his genius in some moments of his work, he ultimately fails to translate his musical expertise into something actually worthwile listening most of the time and to empathize with his audience. Therefore he is in the shit tier of the big composers.

To be fair, Wagner wasn't truly Anti-semitic. He just thought their culture wasn't compatible with European culture. Also Nietzsche is still the bad friend for hating someone with an opposing viewpoint.

Poly, put your trip back on.

those 'overstretched' parts are filled with variations and manipulations of the leitmotifs anyway and make for very entertaining music imo.

Yes, I fully agree that Wagner's Antisemitism is still cultural and not of the exterminatory, biologist kind as espoused by his wife Cosima, HS Chamberlain, Hitler, et al. This is clear enough from "Das Judenthum in der Musik". Nonetheless, his response to capitalism may be described as "Antisemitic", since it is essentially a moralist critique of the phenomenon, which is one of the gateways to Antisemitism as a full-on worldview. I'm pretty much with Postone on that matter, though I would stress the continuities of extant anti-Judaic sentiment as another necessary precondition - you can't fully explain Antisemitism by means of the value form.

Have you considered that operas, by necessity, need large stretches of respite in order for some music to emerge as climactic?

What's not nice about worrying about your friend's health and mental wellbeing?

well, nietzsche clearly didn't appreciate such talk behind his back !!

>wants to explore music
>lel hes so such a fdeora xD

the moment when you realize that the only discussion you can have on /classical/ is about Wagner bio, gossip, trivia and antisemitism.
>mfw

We could also discuss Wagnerian harmony and counterpoint, orchestration, etc. if you like!

Everything that you don't like isn't fedora. People can have differing opinions too.

Yeah exactly that. He is undeniably good in handling musical theory, even innovative at times. He still doesn't manage to sell any of that,
as it is just unbearable to listen to and not feel indifferent towards it, if you aren't in for hours of musical arrangement and harmonic anylisis.

I have. It could be jst me, but those parts did the exact opposite to me, as I found them anticlimatical and predictable. It's still exaggerated and could be cut shorter most of the time, like any other decent composer should be able to do.

people who can draw like the second bottom guy on the right are genius

but then how come Weber could do it

analysis*

I find Weber's operas pretty boring compared to mature Wagner.

>He still doesn't manage to sell any of that

to you maybe. obviously plenty of people are completely sold by wagners operas. so am i.

>Freischutz is more boring than Die Walkure
how the fuck can you defend that opinion
Freischutz is consistently interesting and clever while the ring just spends HOURS wanking about

Great homage to the Tristan chord or greatest homage to the Tristan chord? I'm strongly leaning towards the latter, Berg's Lyric Suite notwithstanding.

How is the Ring boring? You can literally listen to a composer completely revamp and enrich his harmonic vocabulary in its course.

If anything, most recordings of Wagner's operas are done too fast.

Forgot the pic :^)

Go back to your grave, Reginald. Wagner conducting has become irresponsibly slow in the course of the 20th century.

Does that pic imply that Beethoven was down to earth?
Is that pic completely retarded?

>Is that pic completely retarded?

of course & so is the premise of this thread.

The heads look nothing alike. The Beethoven one being compared to is mishappen.

>How is the Ring boring?
der rheingold and die walkure just have tons of long stretches of music where there's nothing happening melodically nor harmonically nor dramatically

>der
Das Rheingold is by far the most fast-paced opera of the whole Ring. What do you think of the preludes of those two operas?

No, the facial strucure is definitely similar for Beethoven.

And Beethoven certainly was a very profane composer, after all he was a revolutionary and atheist, you can even tell from his ugly faustian music.

Prelude to DAS Rheingold (can you tell it's been a while?) is beautiful!
Prelude to Die Walkure I can't even recall

bear in mind it's not an anti-Wagner thing because I enjoyed Tristan

>can you tell it's been a while?

it's painfully obvious in fact you have no idea what you're talking about. more listening for you !!

>And Beethoven certainly was a very profane composer, after all he was a revolutionary and atheist, you can even tell from his ugly faustian music.
You might post memes that incorporate vulgarizations of Hegelian terminology, but you have no clue that the Weltgeist of Beethoven's day by necessity took the form of secular revolutionary ideals that were the consequence of man realizing he is spirit, right?

>implying anyone can ever forget the beautiful, primitive sound of the bass instruments in Das Rheingold's prelude.

I do not believe the revolution was an affirmation of man's spirit, but a denial of it and degeneration to atomism. Beethoven's music carries this ugly and profane character, music for the head, not the heart.

>Hegel
>Wagner
>Judaism
Nice to have you back SDF.
What's everyone been listening to recently?

>man trying to change the world he made is a denial of HIS spirit
Nah. To paraphrase Adorno, Beethoven is Hegelian philosophy in music, except more true because it manages to reconcile the particular with the totality in ways Hegel's thought can't.

Hungarian Peasant Songs

t. second viennese school scholar

Mozart operas (particularly Don Giovanni)
Schutz's Matthew Passion
Lots of Josquin

Schoenberg hated Adorno's guts. :D

Mostly metal, for scholarly purposes.

Great stuff, the four Schütz passions are some of the greatest minimalism in all of music.

What are you dorks even on about

>listening to classical music without having a full command of philosophical and political history
Whew

>tfw not as many Luke passions

oi fatty, what are your favorite works by webern please?

String Trio Op. 20, Symphony Op. 21, Piano Variations Op. 27, String Quartet Op. 28, Orchestral Variations Op. 30, Cantata No. 2 Op. 31. I tend to like the slightly more expansive Webern.

Debussy confirmed husbando

He was the qt-est anyway

nice one.

All-time favorite is probably the Symphony, mostly because it's the Webern piece I connected with first. Also because there exists a Kegel recording of it, which is still unparalleled in my opinion. Pity he didn't get to record the Variations afaik.

>Sudden attack of some whistling demon 20 minutes into this Busch Lohengrin

Old recording meme strikes again

yeh, it's a masterpiece. i actually own the kegel legendary recordings boxed-set, will definitely listen to his recording of op.21 soon!

That's one wise decision, it's a real treasure chest. The Moses und Aron recording on it might just be the greatest opera recording of all time, if it were to be judged only on how well it masters the challenges of realizing its score - it's definitive in absolutely every regard, including one of the greatest choral performances on record.

Bump

Modern classical confuses me. Why is it so distant and stubborn?

Wouldn't know. I actually find moderm stuff (the several compositions I've heard) to be more accessible than older shit (I'm new to classical).
Although... I've read this study that says that atonal music is inherently more difficult to enjoy. Maybe that's the problem.

schulhoff, antheil, varese

what shit have you heard?

Older or modern?

Either.

>modern
Several piano works by Cage, an awesome partly atonal string quartet by Papandopulo, some stuff by Prokofiev and Carmina Burana
I'm pretty spotty when it comes to modern classical
>older
Vivaldi's op 8 and Gloia, Beethoven's piano sonatas 8, 13, 14, 21, 23 and 29, violin sonata 5, symphonies 3, 5, 6 and 7, Mozart's piano concertos 20, 21 and 22, symphonies 35, 39 and 40, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition and Night on Bare Mountain (orchestral versions) and ~1/2 of Smetana's Ma Vlast

How do I get into Beautiful Mountain? I like A Survivor from Warsaw, his Piano Concerto and Gurrelieder.

What the fuck is that pic lmao, phrenology?

Also some non-Germanic music
youtube.com/watch?v=EzZltbtAl4c
youtube.com/watch?v=k3tvtdnkwQI
youtube.com/watch?v=AUlLo6xUb5c
youtube.com/watch?v=1-UERSppbqQ