>me: "systemd isn't that bad, it doesn't seem to affect me really" >cat /var/log/messages >cat: /var/log/messages: No such file or directory >cd /var/log;ll >README >cat README >You are running a systemd-based OS where traditional syslog has been replaced with the Journal. The journal stores the same (and more) information as classic syslog. To make use of the journal and access the collected log data simply invoke "journalctl", which will output the logs in the identical text-based format the syslog files in /var/log used to be. For further details, please refer to journalctl(1).
WHO THE FUCK WROTE THIS SHIT. I DON'T MIND THE MESSAGELOG BEING SUPERSEDED BUT I WILL NOT BE SPOKEN DOWN TO BY SOME SOY ERROR MESSAGE.
Or Void Linux. Runit is comfy, and they have a musl install
Angel Allen
Welcome to 21st century.
Tyler Morgan
I remember running with my first problem with systemd, fuck no I move onto another distro. Recently I was using a server with systemd because Debian was the only distro supported, got an error with the fucking package manager. Later I found I could replace systemd with Upstart, what a change.
Colton Moore
Why don't you fucking listen when we tell you to install gentoo?
Aaron Gonzalez
step up op the future is waiting
Kayden Johnson
>no LUKS or LVM
Colton Ward
How can you in good conscience just spew lies like this? What's most upsetting is that a fair number of people who saw your post immediately internalized it as unquestioned truth.
Jace Nelson
Prove it gaffot
Noah Myers
Install Crux. It's a OpenRC based distro.
Noah Hughes
Journalctl is fucking great, though. Anyway, if you need a "traditional" syslog for whatever stupid reason, you can just install one (rsyslogd probably) and it'll run alongside the journal just fine.
Isaiah Sullivan
>Journalctl is fucking great No it's annoying as hell.
Adam Cooper
Devuan "dev one" it's Debian without the systemd nonsense.
Carter Flores
>systemd doesn't seem that bad >hey user a minor thing changed for the better >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Hudson Myers
>for the better no
Lucas Collins
GuixSD or Gentoo children. They are Systemd-less
Hunter Ward
>is more efficient and logs more information >interoperates just fine with old traditional logging system >somehow worse
Ayden Flores
Systemd is fine outside of its complexity. Have any of you actually tried working with it without stuttering over everytiny thing that is different from other tools? I seriously doubt anyone who posts shit like OP actually amounts to anything in life outside dominating their local engineering department.
Camden Nguyen
>is more efficient and logs more information [citation needed]
Elijah Evans
I have dealt with systemd and is fucking shit, kill yourselves.
Hudson Rodriguez
dmesg ur welcome
William Perez
...
Jason Miller
That's odd. I have dealt with systemd and it was very nice. I guess you must be objectively wrong.
The systemd journal can be tagged with arbitrary data/extra fields. I don't think a huge amount of programs use this, though.
Cameron Brown
People who like Systemd don't like traditional UNIX philosophy, they want a windows clone which "just werks lel". Basically macfags in denial
Christopher Stewart
This, microcucks btfo
Levi Sullivan
>use debian for years >solid as a rock, everything just works >they move to systemd >everything slowly starts falling apart >switch to systemdless distro >everything just works again I'm no init expert, but this happened.
Connor Watson
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Brandon Gray
yeah, of course they want something that works. Not sure why you have to mock people for wanting software that works..
Matthew Morales
Dud, he meant things worked on the systemdless distro not debian, why are you even pretending?
Henry Hill
...
Josiah Lewis
...
Christopher Ortiz
No, read what he said.
Easton Smith
lennart poettering is as many hops away from analingus as he is from secure coding on wikipedia. in fact, if you start reading lennart poettering's wikipedia page theres about 20x more ways you will arrive at the analingus page than the secure coding page
Carson Barnes
doesnt linux handle efivarsfs and it has nothing to do with systemd or is that the joke
Ayden Butler
Just stop pretending. Why are you even, do you get paid to defend systemd or something?
Camden Sanders
Nope and nope. Systemd is just that fucked
Easton Foster
I am asking a genuine question. Ignoring the pointless comparisons, he is essentially saying that People who like Systemd don't like traditional UNIX philosophy, they want something which just works. as if this is a bad thing, to want software that works. Why does he not want software that works?
Daniel Ortiz
WTF? Did you now linked to the wrong post because that makes no sense!
ARE YOU REALLY PAID TO DEFEND SYSTEMD!?
Dominic Sullivan
Read what said. >People who like Systemd don't like traditional UNIX philosophy, they want a windows clone which "just werks lel". Basically macfags in denial >People who like Systemd >want ... which "just werks lel" Why does he not want software that works?
Hunter Watson
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW IS THE SAME POSTER AND WHAT THE FUCK HAS TO DO WITH THE POST I WAS TALKING!?
Are you are paid to defend systemd? Yes or no.
Charles Brown
you should have listened to us and installed gentoo
Ryan Miller
HOW THE FUCK CAN THEY KNOW WHO IS POSTING WHAT AND WHY ARE THEY DEFENDING SYSTEMD!??
Bentley Mitchell
>HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW IS THE SAME POSTER Do I know what is the same poster? I was only referring to one poster, other than you. >AND WHAT THE FUCK HAS TO DO WITH THE POST I WAS TALKING!? What post were you talking (about, presumably)? If it wasn't then I think there might be some miscommunication. >Are you are paid to defend systemd? Yes or no. no >HOW THE FUCK CAN THEY KNOW WHO IS POSTING WHAT AND WHY ARE THEY DEFENDING SYSTEMD!?? WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?
Hudson Perry
>logs are now indexed >can search for shit per service or per VM without running potentially gigs of logs through grep
Grayson Watson
You are evading the questions, you evade my commend on the original post I was commenting out of nowhere with an unrelated post, you don't answer if you are paid to defend systemd. FUCK YOU!
Jace Brooks
>I LEARNED LINUX FROM A BOOK PUBLISHED IN 2005 AND I LITERALLY DON'T WANT TO EVER LEARN ANYTHING NEW AGAIN >REEEEEEEEE
Ian Phillips
This century sucks
Christian Diaz
Let's break this down..
This post was not to anyone. It was just a post. a statement out into the wind. I, confused by the statement upon seeing it, inquired about why he was mocking people who want software that works. This is where you come in. Seemingly misinterpreting what I said, as what you said has nothing to do with the posts above. So I told you to reread what he said. Then you start accusing me of being paid to promote systemd, for some reason. I then make my first attempt at explaining my intentions and what the question was about You then start saying very confusing things and get really angry all of a sudden. I then explain again, even linking to the original post to make it even clearer, as well as greentexting the relevant parts. You then seem to lose your grasp of the english language momentarily, and then ask whether i'm a paid shill and I assume this is you too? Hard to tell, but since you're both posting in allcaps, I assume that is the case. I explain again Now you accuse me of evading a question and being a shill again.
we on the same page now?
Jayden Russell
SYSTEM D PISSED ME OFF TODAY
like literally it really did, this isnt some philosophical grudge on the design of unix systems. Real life fuckery
Was using my Macbook Air with Debian and was tethering my iPhone via usb cable so it could charge too - no wifi allowed
Anyhows i have a conky script i wrote to monitor my internet usage ... and yep it totally broke. Instead up the standard "eth0" i typed in it got changed to "enxea802eee2714"
I totally get it now. System D is increasing in scope and changing things and people are pissed. Its an init system and i thought id never bump into it with my csual use but here i am just looking at why the fuck i needed to call my network adapter the wonderfully semantic "enxea802eee2714". It seems an init sytem has been used to change alot of things a few people didnt like with linux.
John Garcia
>Instead up the standard "eth0" i typed in it got changed to "enxea802eee2714" Pretty sure this isn't actually a systemd thing. I forgot what exactly changed this convention, but that was many years ago.
Hunter Powell
This pretty much sums up my hate of systemdicks. Thanks for reposting my image.
I made that image and no, Linux does not handle the EFI variables. Systemd is so invasive that it might as well be half the kernel too. At this rate, 10 years from now you'll just be running Poettering OS which will be pure systemd.
It's also not a joke. I had one of my MSI motherboards get bricked because I wiped the disk on a running system in preparation for installing another OS. Luckily I had a copy of the entire contents of the BIOS chip, so I got out an SPI clip and reprogrammed the boot ROM. I've made a habit of dumping the boot ROM on all my machines as soon as I get them. Not once have I ever come to regret such autism.
Jason Perez
>Thanks for reposting my image. you're welcome. Gotta keep it alive! >Systemd is so invasive that it might as well be half the kernel too at this point, It wouldn't surprise me if it started getting into the kernelspace. >At this rate, 10 years from now you'll just be running Poettering OS which will be pure systemd. Doesn't matter. I kinda want to go for a microkernel OS anyway once it's actually viable to do so.
Lucas Ortiz
>4 is the same as 3
Carter Turner
Well yeah, I'm not autistic enough to use any other shit, i use arch btw.
Thomas Jenkins
Its a system D thing says on the very first line of the link
>Starting with v197 systemd/udev will automatically assign predictable, stable network interface names for all local Ethernet, WLAN and WWAN interfaces. This is a departure from the traditional interface naming scheme ("eth0", "eth1", "wlan0", ...), but should fix real problems.
Aaron Gray
Oh it's technically udev then not systemd.
Hunter Young
udev is a part of Systemd.
This gif isn't an exaggeration
Jaxson Jackson
What do you use now?
Bentley Garcia
and the only reason we can use udev outside of systemd distros is because the Gentoo project forked udev. I believe they had to do this with a bunch of other things as well.
Jackson Walker
Yeah but I'm pretty sure they did that before it got absorbed into systemd.
Thank god for the Gentoo devs.
Luis Richardson
I'm 99.9% sure that the kernel implements a filesystem called efivarsfs which you can mount using mount -t efivarsfs efivarsfs /efi. No shit that you bricked your motherboard by deleting all of your efi variables retard. That has nothing to do with systemd.
Cooper Evans
as someone who just added self made db, KEK and PK and made my own kernel/initramfs/cmdline PEs, this is a pretty normal and fine unless your firmware is retarded or you are a retard. one or the other.
Camden Flores
it's replacing it with the mac address.
predictable yeah
fuck yeah.
these idiots make it simpler for them and remove ourselves the opportunity to write simpler programs
potring anhero when
Charles Davis
he doesn't know what a computer is.
Andrew Ramirez
Then:
>host not booting correctly maybe after patching >tail -f /var/log/messages >view /etc/init.d/appropriatercscript >manual/ldd/strace processfromrcscript >see where bombing >remediate >booted
NOW >can't login because systemd won't start sshd because problem with DNS config >journalctl -whatwasitagain fuck man journalctl >nolinewrap >service is flapping >kernel panic
I've literally seen both this year.
Nathan Clark
You can enable journalctl to log to disk. Problem solved. Systemd is a godsend when it comes to archaic unix hacks, e.g. daemonizing. With new-style daemons, you can simple log to stdout, and systemd will handle logging for you.
Brody Bell
>Doesn't matter. I kinda want to go for a microkernel OS anyway once it's actually viable to do so.
so systemdOS? because a lot of systemd projects are trying to bring microkernel features to userspace. the most recent one seeks to tackle the ambient authority problems of linux that result in confused deputy issues.
Gavin Howard
>networkmanager >what was once eth0 is now enp0s6 THANKS REDHATE
Nathan Edwards
journalctl --help it's not so bad. you might have to learn a new command and it has a lot more features
for one it's a compressed binary that is easily manipulated to get the information you want better than traditional tools. 0pointer.de/blog/projects/journalctl.html
and it will never change again.
>I wiped the disk on a running system I've never bungled that shit. How do you do this? If you're wiping a disk you're writing strictly to the disk?? WTF does that have to do with your motherboard BIOS? Did you do this?? How can you even do that? How are these things not read only to the kernel? >cant start sshd because problem with DNS ??? sshd will bind to interface not any DNS configuration >no line wrap you realize you can scroll left and right in journalctl, right?
Cooper Jackson
>for one it's a compressed binary that is easily manipulated to get the information you want better than traditional tools.
Oh fuck off. The entire history of Unix has been simple tools which can quickly and easily be crafted to perform complex operations on text files. There is literally zero merit to changing this and certainly negative merit having to learn a new non-Unix method for this specific case, often in the heat of battle.
Kayden Fisher
>Did you do this?? (You) >How can you even do that? How are these things not read only to the kernel? Not him, but systemd would mount efivarfs rw because it needs to write to it sometimes. It should really remount it rw before using it, then remount it back to ro.
But, there is never a reason to rm -rf /, it makes no sense to wipe your system from itself.
Levi Jenkins
was thinking seL4, Redox, minix, or the inevitable ungoogled-fuchsia.
Sebastian Peterson
>The entire history of Unix has been simple tools which can quickly and easily be crafted to perform complex operations on text files.
you make this sound like it's a good thing.
Evan Reyes
nothing is stopping you then boy. but shittalking systemd and then throwing out "muh micro kernel" just makes you sound like a moron.
Josiah Smith
Did you even check out that link? There's an entire set of data not displayed by /var/log/messages that the journal can capture. Unified journal with metadata is a good thing.
>With the -o verbose switch we enabled verbose output. Instead of showing a pixel-perfect copy of classic /var/log/messages that only includes a minimimal subset of what is available we now see all the gory details the journal has about each entry. But it's highly interesting: there is user credential information, SELinux bits, machine information and more. For a full list of common, well-known fields, see the man page.
Grayson Collins
chill out. I think systemd is a piece of shit, but I have no issue with you if you want to use it.
Chase Mitchell
Fuck off to windows then you cancer faggot.
Elijah Parker
>System fucking up >Binary journal gets corrupt >journalctl stops working Yeah nah, you're fucked mate.
Luke Butler
if journalctl stops working then you've got bigger problems than the state of your journal. you can't even execute a binary. if your journal is completely corrupt then journald isn't working either because it would move the corrupted journal aside and do it's best to read it
Eli Perez
The difference is a text file is readable by many different utilities, whereas you only have journalctl for the journal.
Josiah Collins
wow. are you running out of ideas?
Easton Harris
the difference is a backup exists unless you don't care anyhow. even with text logs, you should probably have some ELK bullshit or basic forwarding to some central location if you really care about your precious retarded logs.
partially readable corrupted text logs is a red herring at best.
Camden Sanchez
>Journal corrupted >journalctl dies trying to read it vs >Text log corrupted >Everything reads it fine Seems like you have to prove why journalctl is a better solution here. That assumes a perfect world operators have log forwarding set up. Let me assure you, this isn't the case in a lot of organizations. Text logs that you can read are better than binary data that you can't.
Charles Price
lmao, truth hurts?
very difficult to test or verify. most retards who think they know how shells work, don't and write garbage code. "complex" might as well be a shoe in for the word "fragile" because that's what most shell pipelining ultimately becomes. nearly impossible to handle errors in any sane way since multi-io will likely require complex graphs of fd's of pipes. there is virtually nothing positive of the "UNIX" pipeline composition of old except for extremely trivial cases.
David Bennett
GuixSD >dedicated wholly to free software, gnu sponsored and fsf endorsed >no terrible systemd or kernel bloob nonsense >lisp (guile[scheme]) hackable on every level, entire os, services, and all packages are just normal lisp declarations >functional package management, roll anything back (including the entire os) to any previous [working] state, basically impossible to break beyond repair It's basically the best thing ever.
Joshua Robinson
Why don't you try to convince me that a syslog is better than journald? Oh wait, that's right.. i'm not complaining about syslog corrupting my computer because I don't understand what a fucking disk drive is or how fucking commands work
Blake Hughes
>Text logs that you can read are better than binary data that you can't.
lol at this kid. If you have partial bit flips in your text file, it's probably not even accessible without a deep ass dive into whatever, hopefully still readable, disk.
Austin Lee
imagine believing system critical logging should be store in flat files instead of a relational db
Colton Miller
That could all be stored in text, where the skilled admin could use their own tools to monitor trends and alerts.
Lincoln Sullivan
this. literally it's all about shit like Elasticsearch right now, and that's a binary database as well.
literally who are these morons? journald already is fullblown syslog and can literally log transport to plaintext files anyhow.
Sebastian Phillips
>Company has an ELK stack setup I envy you.
Nicholas Phillips
>SOME SOY ERROR MESSAGE
Adrian Bailey
so carefully manipulating sed ed grep and pipes to get something as simple as journalctl -u httpd --since=yesterday is better how?
Because if I'm using journalctl wrong it well tell me. good luck debugging your shell script when your program changes how it generates log files
Jaxson Powell
no its not the mac address its the network chipset name and because i was tethering an iphone over USB gosh dolly darn it was a big weird one.
I read the predicable system name documentation and it makes sense in a data centre but not on a desktop with usually just one or two network adapters
server OS on the desktop were a mistake
Zachary Ortiz
> or the inevitable ungoogled-fuchsia. > ungoogled > fuchsia
oh boy you are just a special kind of naive arent you ?
Jeremiah Young
Kids and pajeet could still use their journalctl tool, I don't see why it couldn't just be made to work with standard logfiles.
Isaiah Murphy
> GuixSD > It's basically the best thing ever.
Never Heard of it user. Drawbacks ? im guessing it cant into .deb ?
Some guys think quad barrel carburetors and free flowing exhausts are the best thing ever too :)
Lincoln Roberts
>9 not any of you guys but heard the plain text vs binary argument for years but no one explained to me the binary was actually a relational database.
I mean storage for log files has been a non issue for decades. Can someone explain to me why they couldnt just implement a PRIMARY binary DB and SECONDARY plain text file for basic fault tracing ?
Colton Cox
>oh no, something new >whaa whaa go read a different book