Smalltalk

>Smalltalk.
>Solidifies OOP, simple, powerful, lots of great resources from the 90s that will actually take you from beginner to intermediate (modern languages and modern books really fucking fail at intermediate instruction).
Do you agree?

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Other urls found in this thread:

smalltalk.gnu.org/documentation/books
youtube.com/watch?v=ubaX1Smg6pY&t=3597s
stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>Do you agree?
No. I literally disagree with all parts.
Also, are those Smalltalk and Forth shills the new generation of retro garbage shills? Couple of years ago it was all about Lisp.

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People have the mistaken idea that only functional programming is modern but Smalltalk style OO is equally powerful to FP and is in fact isomorphic to FP.

Smalltalk is still a language thats ahead of its time both the language itself and its integration to the OS. Of course the worse-is-better luddites stuck in enterprise tooling like will only use what the industry uses because they have a lemming mind.

>t. OP samefagging
worse-is-better garbage is another story.

I'm OP, I didn't say that. I took that from a thread in which the OP asked what's the best programming language for a beginner. Many people were saying python isn't.

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>I'm OP, I didn't say that.
I have no reason to believe and no way to check that.
>Many people were saying python isn't.
They are right. Pascal still is.

If you seriously want to learn Smalltalk, learn it text-only using GNU Smalltalk with this free book:
smalltalk.gnu.org/documentation/books

programming in graphical implementations of Smalltalk are very distracting as Smalltalk was orginally designed as a user-interaction systems as much as a programming language

I just want to learn programming with a beginner friendly language. Thanks for the suggestion and resource. Was the guy I quoted right? If not, why should I learn smalltalk today?

>They are right. Pascal still is.
How come? How long will it take?

Educate me please as to why

>Was the guy I quoted right? If not, why should I learn smalltalk today?
you started a thread about whether Smalltalk is a good language to take someone from being a beginner to intermediate programmer, I am saying it is.

why what?

>Smalltalk is still a language thats ahead of its time both the language itself and its integration to the OS
Why is that?

Alan Kay is so far ahead of current technology that I dont even bother trying to explain it to people
youtube.com/watch?v=ubaX1Smg6pY&t=3597s

How do I get into smalltalk in modern day?

Is it possible for OOP to actually be tolerable ?

some french guy made a ton of classic Smalltalk books freely available
stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html

>Solidifies OOP
No, it was actually Self.
The thing about smalltalk is that it's syntax was LISP-like in terms of power and flexibility.

What's Self?

It was designed as a programming language for learning good old standard imperative programming in a clean, ordered fashion, but it isn't aiming at kids, unlike annoying stuff like Scratch.
It is also excellent to implement as a first language. How long that takes depends on you.

another retro meme language where even its creators figured out that prototype OOP isn't a good idea

Do you recommend I start with Pascal or Smalltalk?

Smalltalk is dope shit, and more of the features it had need to be fully baked into modern languages and runtimes.

xerox wouldn't have been able to produce the GUI without it

Watched that Alan Kay talk posted, then another on youtube and read a bunch of criticisms and complaints about Smalltalk.....
Fuck now I want to dive into smalltalk, it sounds like utopia.

The way shit is currently is just so completely wrong, contrary to how it should be. Fuck man this shit fucked me up.

You're welcome

>>I'm OP, I didn't say that.
>I have no reason to believe and no way to check that.
Then you have no reason to claim samefagging, either.

this is thinly veiled python propaganda

Hi op!

That was actually me that said that!
Here's one great resource, just to further back up my argument that it'll take you from beginner to intermediate:
ISBN-13 978-1583484906

Before this book, I was absolute shit, didn't understand shit about programming. I could write a CRUD app using Rails, sure. But I had no idea what I was doing, just gluing together code I found on stack overflow mostly. 3 months later after working through this book, I wrote a CHIP-8 interpreter! A couple months after that, I felt solidly an intermediate programmer. Now I write compilers as a hobby.

Thing about programming resources -- they're either written for absolute beginners or advanced programmers. Think about it -- if you're a company that wants to publish books for intermediate programmers, why would you? A fuck ton of beginners wash out before they become intermediate programmers, and those that do become intermediate, only stay intermediate for a year or two tops. Intermediate books are much more difficult to write, but you're writing it for fewer people. Much better to just write an easy-to-write book and sell it to every fuckass that thinks he can get a job because he can write a shitty POF clone using Node and React. Books for advanced programmers also exist -- but that's because they're NEEDED so companies can actually make money. But they're often very topical and narrow in scope (i.e. just detailing one technology).

But the 90s? The 90s was a huge tech boom, and companies needed programmers and they needed them fast. I think the books reflect that.

Also ISBN 978-0134769042

this is so fucking reddit faggy i can smell the soy from here

And Python's not a bad place to start.
It gets shit done -- by no nature of the language itself. It got picked up by Google because 80% of code in Python ends up being basically C pseudocode, so because of that, it got used for A LOT of things, so it has libraries for a lot of basic tasks. This made it easy for most STEM people, which just fed the feedback loop more.

IMO, the most important part of a first language is that you can continue to feel motivated. This means being able to write useful/cool programs with minimal effort. This, IMO, makes Python a better language to learn than C. Sure, you won't learn shit like pointers, dynamic typing will spoil you, etc. etc. BUT 6 months from now you'll actually be writing real shit instead of having K&R sitting on your bookshelf with a bookmark 1/4 way through.

Pascal, Python, Ruby, Smalltalk, Javascript, they're all fine languages to start with.
IMO, the reasons you should start with any of them:
Pascal: Lazarus. Make desktop apps pretty easily.
Python: You want to learn Python for STEM purposes or just want to write stuff easy without caring anything more about it other than it works.
Smalltalk: Great, older resources. Elegant.
Ruby: You like the idea of elegant, but you actually want to program modern programs instead of being stuck in a VM.
Javascript: You want to build web stuff.