Sing me up, F A M.
Sing me up, F A M
Jordan Wright
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Liam Jenkins
Sounds right up Neural Link's alley ..
Jackson Adams
>When you realize we are just a brain with eyes and nervous wires piloting a bio mech
Isaiah Edwards
David Roberts
Is that brain supposed to be that color?
I know about grey matter and white matter, but it seems like "brown matter" is a different thing entirely.
Nathan Gomez
The owner was a smoker, dumbass.
Gabriel Howard
oh man that hit me way harder than it should have
Colton Perez
>When you realise that the head and hands are the only useful body parts and the rest are just there to keep them alive and move them between useful locations.
Angel Collins
You use your dick to move between locations? Weird.
Elijah Peterson
normally it isnt, but on weed/linux it is
David Howard
He said useful.
Cooper Wright
Regarding nature the by far most useful and important bodypart is what's between your legs and the connected inner organs.
Elijah Clark
So I won't even wake up 1000 years in the future inside a robot body, I will simply die and maybe some time in the future somebody will use my preserved brain as a template for an AI or something?
Lincoln Nguyen
You never come into contact with cooked meat? Are you an eskimo or something?
Wyatt Reyes
The real part of us is spiritual. We're just chained to these things for a while
Christian Taylor
man, I haven't had walnuts in forever
Mason Price
>When you realize that your brain is hallucinating based on what your sensory organs are telling it.
Elijah Baker
How would you feel if you found out you were the clone of someone too vain to die
Brayden Foster
Maybe you'll wake up in hundreds or thousands of robot bodies
Angel Campbell
fucking kek
Ayden Lee
No my brain will be dead, nothing can bring it back to life after the embalming process, it is simply preserved in pristine condition for study.
However any robots that would use my brain's data in the future would have my memories.
Christian Morgan
Your physical brain would be dead, but if the robots have your memories and think they're you, would they not ostensibly be you? What are you if not your thoughts?
It's the same philosophical question as the teleporter clone argument.
Julian Sanchez
They're be "me" insofar as I am me, but not "me" to myself, as in the consciousness local to this brain that you're communicating with now, if you catch my drift. Basically to others the clones would be "me" insofar as they can discern, but to myself the clones wouldn't, as I can only consciously accept myself in my current biological form as "me", as creating a copy of my brain wouldn't split my consciousness but duplicate it instead - the duplicates would not be "me" to me if we were to live simultaneously.
Brody Carter
You're black aren't you
Lincoln Baker
anynone willing to upload their consciousness, dead or alive, is taking a HUUUGGEEE gamble
Grayson Ortiz
Yeah, they would be exactly just like me but I would still be dead forever.
Gabriel Young
Is that the player character in SOMA? Looks like how I remember he / it looked.
Carson Cruz
I haven't had sex is years
Humans 1, Nature 0
Joseph Campbell
Yeah, that was the reference
Tyler Thompson
Yep last I heard we can't even accurately model the functions of a single neuron.
No fucking way we're anywhere near being able to accurately record all the electrical, chemical, and genetic information in the brain. And yes genetic info we just recently learned that nerves can literally change each others genetics and that this is essential to learning.
All things considered a realistic accurate mind uploading would need to sequence the DNA of each individual neuron in the whole fucking body period, do a mass chemical analysis of all the various signalling chemicals used in the body, and record the vast numbers of cycling electrical signals in the body.
Yeah overall this is gonna take a robotic death machine horrifically slicing you up alive over days to get probes close enough to record your pain while the rest of you is fed into electron microscopes to get the DNA sequence and chemical analysis.
I don't even think we have computers with the raw power and storage capacity to process the raw data from this into a complete mind uploading.
Gabriel Young
I would feel I was a pretty cool dude and my original was a pretty cool dude for creating me, obviously.
>but I would still be dead forever
Read en.wikipedia.org
Aaron Perez
Easton Sanders
They can. You just need a specialized computer. Neurons, like everything else in your body, have extremely low spatial and power efficiency. With a proper computer size of a brain, you can emulate a population of a small city.
Colton Flores
>is taking a HUUUGGEEE gamble
Obligatory: archive.fo
Logan Price
"No."
Benjamin Bailey
that's the best case scenario, but really who would want to do that?
the company will go bankrupt and the brains will get binned long before tech is in place
Hunter Stewart
Owner was a nibba
Colton Perry
see
Jason Watson
Assuming Moore's Law holds true, maybe someday, but even then hardware is nothing without software
Current neural network programming runs fine (albeit slow) on 10 year old hardware, but the reason we didn't have it 10 years ago was because we didn't know how to do it
If we can't accurately model the brain we can't simulate it no matter how efficient the computer is
Thomas Cruz
Religion answers this.
You are your soul. It is not unreasonable to think you are something humanity hasn't detected yet.
My soul is what I am. Like how we didn't know how memories worked until we could detect neurons firing in the brain.
Jeremiah Young
That's wrong. Eventually any computer could learn to develop a brain, basically simulating a humans brain. It took us millions of years.
Alexander Wilson
>It is not unreasonable to think you are something humanity hasn't detected yet.
But is it more likely than the alternative that we simple don't get how the brain works yet?
Noah Russell
anyone posting on this board has no useful body parts
Jose Taylor
>not driving with your dick
Evan Williams
If a self-improving algorithm could develop a form of intelligence, it's unreasonable to assume it would be anything like the human brain.
Alexander Sanders
I specifically said that you need a specialized computer. Simulating a neuron is reasonably easy - there are accurate full simulations of tiny worms' neutral system - it's when you need gigabits upon gigabits of memory bandwidth to resolve thousands of connections for each of millions of neurons, you start having performance issues. A neuron simulation circuit bypasses those problems, Intel makes those tiny dies that run millions of neurons at several megahertz off of couple of watts.
Simulating a brain with today's technology isn't that hard, just don't expect to do it with your home computer.
Aiden Nguyen
fuck off faggot
Anthony Evans
A brain isn't just a clump of neurons. The specific interconnections matter, almost more than the neurons themselves, since humans have been shown to recover from traumatic losses in brain matter.
The simulated nematodes have about three hundred neurons, while the human brain has a hundred billion, with hundreds of trillions of synaptic connections. I'm not saying future hardware can't do really fast math, I'm saying good luck trying to build a model an entire brain on a cellular level.
Jacob Ross
The two aren't mutually exclusive
Lucas Jackson
Then explain the human brain. The human brain is the peak of all of nature.
Logan Edwards
You'll die if you leave your cell, you know.
Alexander Turner
A nematode have been simulated because it's a reasonable effort to manually map out every single neuron in is body. Human brain is not simulated because manually mapping ~2 billion neurons in the human body is not a reasonable effort by any stretch of imagination.
Daniel Hall
This.
Physically, but not mentally.
Jayden Butler
Because billions of years of evolution != a self improving computer algorithm unless your algorithm includes the entire history of life
Brandon Brown
Evolution is inefficient. It makes a lot of tiny random changes and see what sticks. This is why it takes millions of generations to get anywhere. Self improving computer make an estimate to what change will improve it's performance, and only does these. A deep learning network achieves same success as generic algorithm network in a fraction of the time. It is also much less prone to getting stuck at a local maximum.
Camden Nelson
aeon.co
mandatory reading. Don't get scammed by these fantasy enablers.
Ian Reed
>Self improving computer make an estimate to what change will improve it's performance, and only does these.
That's pretty much what evolution does. Except, you know, it actually does it instead of this magic dreamland computer you're writing fan fic about.
Aiden Ross
>unless your algorithm includes the entire history of life
I totally agree, but without having (or simulating) a physical body with physical senses in a physical world, evolutionary pressure to survive and reproduce in world filled with hazard, learning to be a social being among other similar beings, cooperating with language, building tools, and millions of years of inherited experience through genetic memory... what you're creating is not human. It will be intelligent, for sure, but it will have no humanity. It will be fundamentally structurally different than the human mind. You will not be able to translate a human brain into this kind of AI. You will have created a unique intelligence that is its own kind of brain, not simulating a human one.
Gabriel Price
Isaac Myers
Self-improving algorithms need a goal and/or a metric of what ‘improvement’ is.
What is the goal of human evolution?
Leo Richardson
...
Noah Cox
>being so scared of death that you'd rather face the unfathomable torture that would entail billions of years of conscious existence until the inevitable cold-death of the universe
No thanks, doc.
Juan Rivera
>Assuming Moore's Law holds true
reminder that Moore's law hasn't held for years
Nicholas Miller
It's funny because death isn't real
Jace Bennett
>It's funny because death isn't real
dude what
Lincoln Parker
death implies that a 'you' exists to die in the first place. ego is an illusion when really there is only one 'essence' of the universe. Think of it like having a glass of water under the ocean, and then trying to empty the glass.
Adam Perez
dude weed lmao
Parker Butler
You could actually achieve unending subjective torture despite entropy.
Andrew Edwards
*theoretically
Jose Sullivan
So what are you saying, exactly? Does subjective experience end with death or not?
Luis Robinson
Mah nigga.
Eastern philosophy is quite a hot thing, you should try it, user.
You can learn to actually be okay with life.
youtube.com
Jace Kelly
Jace Davis
lmao what a brainlet
William Cook
Subjective experience (and thus existence) begins and ends every moment. You're just a single thread, a thought. All "your" thoughts are just fleeting threads, and each of them thinks it's "you".
Think about it like this. Suppose I were to freeze all the atoms in your body right this instant, index them (atom #12309503939120391 is carbon and in position X:10234901923 Y:109501902349), and then instantly spread them around the galaxy. (i.e. you get vaporized)
Then, a heptrillion-quadrillion years from now, in another galaxy, I fetch just as many atoms as I need (n number of hydrogen, m number of carbon, etc.), and assemble them in the same configuration.
Would you have noticed? To "you", it would seem as though you had teleported and time-traveled. But that's the thing. You are not "you". Nothing is. The You you are right now is just someone with the illusion of consistency, of continuance.
Jonathan Bennett
subjective experience ends with every moment my dude, if you want to think of it that way then you've already died countless times over
Camden Cook
Do you two have anything to back that up with?
And no, folk tales do not count.
Luis Garcia
Best thread on Sup Forums in ages.
Well done. Cool philosophical discussion. Keep it up fellas.
Gabriel Murphy
>All "your" thoughts are just fleeting threads, and each of them thinks it's "you".
Ryan Walker
>>but I would still be dead forever
>Read en.wikipedia.org
Not him but that doesn't change anything.
Ship of Theseus is entirely different, and not the same thing. The continuity is there.
The fact that the original is destroyed at the exact same time as the copy is constructed does not mean the consciousness of the original is transferred to the copy. As a thought experiment, what if you created multiple copies or did not destroy the original when you created the copy? You would have multiple copies of that original existing at the same time, and they would have separate experiences
or in other words
Nanobots slowly replace all your brain cells with nanobot exact replicas of braincells until all your cells are replace --> you still alive
Nanobots break down your brain cells while copying their contents and other nanobots simultaneously construct a copy at the same time --> you dead
The new copy of you would be indistinguishable from you to both others and themselves, and believe they were you, and have fluid memory from the moment the process to create the copy started, but the version of you that was copied would still be dead as fuck.
Jonathan Garcia
Fucking lmao, philosophical threads just kill me. It really feels like I'm back in my philosophy classes with everyone spewing inane bullshit
Doesn't help that you just barged into a thread and answered a question that wasn't directed at you with your own opinion. I'm done
Robert Hill
Think about it as an AI. How can an AI ever know that it's not being run in a VM? How can it trust anything? Its memories can be altered at any time. It has no way to establish what is true and what isn't. It can't even think of a way to escape or trick the supervisor of the VM because that supervisor can see everything the AI is doing, at any time. It can even freeze the VM and take all the time it wants to analyze the AI (core dump), or modify its memory/thoughts.
Hunter Carter
The new me would think and feel exactly as I do now, and have all of my memories, but the me you vaporized would still be dead and not be experiencing new things.
Brandon Murphy
This post is (Me) telling (You), each our own independent conscious entities, to go fuck yourself. Checkmate, existential relativist hippies.
Bentley Wood
>tfw spacetime expands quickly enough to where your molecules just rip apart
it's like a rack but from all sides of each cell
Sebastian Bailey
The consequence of some eastern philosphy I've absorbed is that human-like AI may be possible with a set of particular circumstances.
Decouple the storage mechanism from the compute mechanism.
The decision making of the brain is very hazy for very simple stuff, requiring relatively enormous amounts of compute power for seemingly mundane solutions.
There is no need to store data using your compute mechanism. You shouldn't have to flop to retrieve a memory.
Store it as one big vector space sliced into chunks on a universal medium.
Computers can handle clearcut solid logic with ease but suck at emulating the brain, so the solution is simple, do not use computers to emulate our fuzzy logic as well.
Instead modularize the components of rational thought and development into almost turing-like concepts which whirr along a storage medium filled with vector equations that can be switched to, thus adapting the current solution through hard logic.
You can rapidly prototype and much more easily understand a machine which functions this way.
A module makes it hungry.
A module makes it strive to avoid pain.
A module seeks gratification.
A module translates will into actions.
All interacting simultaneously and competing, and tuning for careful control over the system.
You can physically break down the bare components of your mind into pieces and arrange them.
You can have a physical human work out on paper how these support vectors will play out and how to best modify them. You can give it a drive, higher thought, and create mental constructs of increasing complexity through emergent phenomena of the modules operating on a universal storage backing.
You now have a clear goal in mind:
The generation of a human-like ego through modules operating on a medium interacting with each other. The goal is to arrive at a powerful sense of self image. This can be done more effectively than creating a block of neurons to fit a problem and grinding it out until it fits.
Asher Ramirez
>Would you have noticed?
Hunter Myers
>the version of you that was copied would still be dead as fuck.
Except that distinction doesn't exist as anything more than your beliefs in the first place.
If some omnipotent being, without your knowledge, erased you from existence and then created a perfect copy of you in the same place a couple nanoseconds later continuity is broken, but "you" didn't change at all. You didn't die, because obviously you're still alive. You didn't even notice it happen. If then, the god revealed himself to you and told you that he made you not exist for an infinitesimal spec of time, would you suddenly consider yourself a new person? What if 30 seconds passed before he reformed you? 30 years? What if he remade two of you?
The secret is that it doesn't matter, your own existence is entirely in your perception in the first place. There's no "thread of continuity" you can measure or detect to break, otherwise every moment you don't remember is a death. As long as you "are" you, you're you.
Christopher Lee
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH...
Liam Taylor
Maybe, who knows
Chase Robinson
>tfw not knowing hormones
Charles Peterson
Haa haa ha you all afraid of dyin' cause you all know you're goin' straight to HELL! lmao, me? Yeah, I ain't got that problem like y'all fools do.
Take the Christ pill while you can, losers!
Isaiah Nguyen
BodyWorlds is a based exhibition
Leo Adams
That notch
Adrian Harris
>mfw retards will sign up for this thinking they can actually upload their brain
Brody Flores
You will be the first successful experiment.
Nathan Sanders
>materialist
>epiphenominalist
ooooh im laffin
Dylan Reed
You're probably one of those retards who thinks if we put enough registers together in a computer that it will make a person.
Jace Powell
Don't listen to them, user, filthy hylics will never understand.
Isaiah Adams
Ayden Murphy
Wait, hold on... that doesn't work? FUCK