When will we invent FTL?

Conventional rockets are useless in deep space. Can anyone give an estimated timeline on when FTL travel will be developed?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
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physics.stackexchange.com/questions/203831/ftl-communication-with-quantum-entanglement
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Never. We have more important shit to worry about here, like making sure technology is 50% femalr and sending resources to Africa

Never. That is not possible due to the laws of the universe (without breaking causality),

FTL never.
0.99 c is already here. Just takes a while to get started.

Look outside at the starlight. How far away do you think it comes from? Hundreds of millions of miles? Dozens to billions of light years? Wrong. Their measure is all equal and zero. They are not stars, but events: emissions of light, among other things. They only look far away because you trust your sense like the fool you are. The reality is that they are no further apart than your mind from your body. Distance is an illusion suffered by those that move. Light, which does not move, is but the aspect of the Law, which we call Electromagnetism. Useful to us in such a state as we are in, but not particularly prestigious in the grand scheme of things. What we call the speed of light is not a speed at all, just a conversion constant between two arbitrary units of measurement. The speed of light is not a barrier that could, even hypothetically, be overcome, because it is just the acknowledgement that there is a well defined past, present, and future: a ring of events which condition, or cause, your experience, and another which you may affect, and that the structure of that causality is a universal constant.

You're asking if we can move faster than that which does not move, nor experience time. You're asking if you can act on things which themselves conditioned your action. A body cannot act on itself, and we will never move faster than light.

Except most of the accepted 'theoretically possible but needs exotic matter' methods of FTL don't actually violate causality.

The reality of the universe is already nonlocal.
All points are reachable directly from any other.
If you could just vibrate in the right way, you could pop out anywhere or anywhen in the universe.
Meditation and psychedelic drugs are more likely to hold the key to this than any top down technological conception.

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It's impossible, the most humans can achieve is 20% light speed.

The term FTL itself is impossible, because even if you find a way to bend the universe, or slow yourself down on the time axis or any other sort of similar bullshit, you're still not moving faster than light.

This methods always require negative mass, and it's really a bit of a trick. We've known for a while how mass affects the geometry of space time(or affects the interaction between objects exchanging light, pick your poison, they're equivalent), and it is always to increase the local curvature. In layman terms, it is slower to move between two points if the path you take is curved, and it is no different for the apparent path we see light take, although wrapping your brain around it in 4 dimensions is a bit tougher.

The trick with negative mass is that it's just flipping the sign in those geometric equations: instead of increasing curvature, you decrease it, which brings two points closer together. It's not as easy to understand as positive curvature but it is like folding a piece of paper to bring two points closer together.

The thing is, like you say, you're not violating causality. So you have to question if you're really doing anything more than what you could have done anyway. From what I've seen, those schemes don't actually allow for anything different than conventional travel, or they require a topological change in space-time which is much more drastic and exotic than negative mass and we have even less reason to think our current models would hold up in such conditions.

Assuming that our current physics are correct - yeah.
But that is huge assumption.

Except the wildly guessed calculation my TQD Professor at Uni did when we were talking about that possibility came out to about 200 years worth of the sun's energy output to facilitate a sudden local gravity spike that could possibly lead to negative mass.

If you can get from point A to point B faster than lightwave (theoretical one going in straight line - basically max speed and no cheating with blackholes in path) - you are moving faster than light.

A Hotwheels died for this thread.

>When will we break one of the most fundamental laws of physics guis?
Uh...

These equations all work out if you simply accept the fact that time goes backwards when you go over that curve in to FTL territory.
Equations already show this, but people forget to apply it for some dumb reason.
Causality isn't broken.

Think Star Trek or some shit.
You see people talking about subspace message from blahblah or such a lightyear away.
That's happening, in our real and actual reality, a year ago.
But when they go towards that star system at FTL speeds, they arrive a year ago! (+ maybe a few extra minutes of travel time)
No casual breaking.
There is no jumping in wormholes and going back around and beating overlapping yourself. The dumb-ass wormhole time machine idea was always horribly flawed and EVERY FUCKING TIME someone uses it to shit on everything related to FTL despite it being the most flawed view of FTL and time there IS!


As for OP, at present, the closest we have to working warp engines is a generation 3 fusion reactor. Keyword fusion
It'll be a while away for now.
We know space can be warped. We've literally measured it from powerful lasers.
What we lack is _sustained_ power at those levels required to bend space enough.
And that is also depending on the fact that we can even push the ship if we do create a "warp bubble".
If you are under your 30s, you will likely see it by your 60-80s.
I'll be dead. You, try not to.
DO IT FOR ME! BECOME A SPACE TRUCKER, LIVE MY DREAM!

Underrated post that is nothing but the truth

>faster than light
are you a fucking literal retard?

>Dude I'm 100% sure we can never break lightspeed even though my knowledge of physics consists of highschool and wikipedia

You got any facts to back that up?

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Can confirm. I took salvia one time and I went to Mars. It was some crazy shit.

the spice is life

The problem isn't traveling faster than light, it's accelerating over it.

This.
All current laws prevent acceleration to and beyond c, but it doesn't prevent suddenly being at those speeds or via some other method.
The expansion of the universe is already faster than c itself. Everything is rapidly acceleration away from everything else.
Eventually we'll never see a single star in the sky. (I say we, our galaxy will likely not even exist by then)

Worse yet, it seems to be gaining even more speed. It isn't a linear acceleration, it is a CURVE. That's extremely worrying for all kinds of reasons.
If it continues at that rate, the universe may very well rip itself apart at the atomic level before even all the galaxies burn out.
brb moving in to a blackhole.

I read somewhere to think of it like a wave heading towards a shore and then breaking on a rock. The wave travels at X spead, and hits the rock and the vertical spread the remainder of the wave splashing off the rock will be traveling considerably faster than the wave originally was.

What if exceeding c would result in a buffer overflow and crash the universe? Do we really want to risk that?

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Quantum entanglement already laughs at c.

Yeah, that's basically it.
It's not so much information that is there, the information itself is a secondary facet, it s more inferred than a quality it has.
Same with moving a shadow across the moon, you could make the shadow move across the surface at FTL speeds, it just won't be FTL light.

Whether we can abuse that by warping space is sadly going to have to wait until we have a few generations of working fusors.
We can't produce the sustained power needed to even test it for a second.

Don't worry grandpa, neural upload to android bodies is much closer than warp drive.

But that will just be a clone of me, not me.
I don't want that faggot having fun without me.

The fermi paradox goes from a minor curiosity to WHERE THE FUCK IS EVERYONE if you consider ftl possible. It very likely isn't possible.

We already did.
Take a flashlight, turn it on and walk forward while pointing it in the same direction.
The light from the flashlight will travel at FTL speed because your own walking speed is being added to it.

If we both have a mile long circuit but I find a shortcut which allows me to get to the finish line first, I don't need to go faster than you at any point. I can travel at 5mph while you travel at 60, and still win if the shortcut is right, but I never travelled faster than you.

dude i just lit 7 incense sticks and 100 candles and moved my cardboard cutout of spock back into the room

Havent any of you morans ever watched star trek? It's simple to travel faster than light.
All you have to do is build a warp drive engine and then fold space around you. That will get you to light speed if you go up to ten on the dial, but if you build your ship with a dial that goes up to 11.... you got it. You just need a space ship with a dial that goes up to 11 not 10

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this makes way too many assumptions. it assumes we are worth visiting, that our system is worth visiting, and it still ignores that space is really really big. it also ignores timelines in that we have no idea when other places would have spawned their life : maybe we are first...maybe we are last and there's no one else left?

let's say that even c was attainable, now it takes years to get from a to b instead of hundreds. about half the trip is just spent speeding up and slowing down at about 1g to keep your passengers happy.

you only will go visit other systems that have things you need, minerals, etc you determined from optical spectrum their star emits.

while most stars have planets, a lot are too violent of a orbit, radiation, or other issue that gets in the way

Nope.
The speed of light is so fucked up, it don't actually add up.

>All current laws prevent acceleration to and beyond c, but it doesn't prevent suddenly being at those speeds or via some other method.
i don't even know where to start with how wrong you are. the fact you think something "suddenly" happening doesn't break the laws of physics, the fact that you think if it didn't it would some how not constitute infinite acceleration, the fact that you don't understand the causal implications for any FTL travel, the fact that you're conflating accelerating to c with accelerating beyond c, the fact that you don't understand what curves are, or the fact that you don't understand what "linear acceleration" means (possibly you don't understand what acceleration means in the first place)... if this is bait then bravo because it's pretty fucking good.

come up with an argument that at least takes something beyond a highschool education to counter

you know, they explain it in the show properly. they are not traveling FTL, and it's theoretically possible. the main issue being you need a massive amount of energy to fold 4space without time effects, or for long distances. you would need more energy to send a single person pod than all of humanity has ever created.

even their matter antimatter reactor is reasonable scientifically, but antimatter is insanely hard for humans to generate. all told we can't even fill a thimble with what humans have made.

Explain this to me like I'm ten

>our personality is only made by neurons in the brain and not also heavily influenced by all the other cells interacting in our body

Unless your android has the capability to emulate every single chemical reaction in our body (not only the ones happening in the brain) it would still be a different "person" acting differently from you. Only memories are somewhat preserved

>and sending resources to Africa

You mean sending Africa to white countries.

You made the stupidest assumption of all when you assumed aliens would need to visit us for us to see them. If ftl was possible, we would see aliens everywhere we looked.

generally speaking, scarcity of resources is unanimous across species. laws that govern more primitive animals still govern more advanced ones.

boldly going without a reason is not bold, it's asinine. if you are going to be stuck on a ship for possibly generations you need to have a reason to go there.

fuel efficiency, cost to build your ships, your crew, all make exploratory or pointless space endeavours increasingly unlikely as distance from home increases.

space is not the lake District that you feel like taking a jaunt through on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

Not necessarily.
We could be surrounded with FTL communication everywhere, but unable to detect it as we can't into FTL.

When the Emperor wills that we will do so.

I will take your argument, turn it 180 but still reach the same conclusion.
When you have enough technology to travel to space easily like that, the resource scarcity is pretty much gone, as you just can go there, fetch whatever you need and go back.

But due that, you don't need to go very far or explore the universe to get all you need, which makes space exploration pointless.

and for direct observation, even with Hubble, you would need a massive ship to be seen. given the vastness of space, it's unlikely you would see a ship before it gets to you.

if it's going FTL, it's not going to have any em spectrum to detect before it's arrival either. unless there is some hawking radiation like emission from FTL we don't know about, basically you sit in the dark wondering who will ring the doorbell to earth.

not sure that helps you any, if they have everything they need on their own rock, why would they bother leaving it?

a lot of theoretical astrophysics people have a pretty unified veiw if aliens were to show up. the most reasonable reason based on our observation and history as man for moving across great distances is we need resources. typically you take those resources by force from the natives of the land. if a ship shows up here we would be so primitive they might question even our sentience, much less our intellect. like humans, or a virus, they would most likely be here to take what they need, and move on when nothing is left. it's grim and bleak, but it's the most logical. usually human explorers did not show up and give the humans there new stuff...they generally plundered and enslaved.

This is why i said i would reach the same conclusion.

missed that part, it's hard to be distracted by a tiny phone screen in a early Friday meeting

Everything in your first paragraph is wrong. It only takes a couple million years to colonise a galaxy the slow way. Add ftl and you get a full gakaxy colonised in a few hundred years. Resources are not scarce at all. Stars themselves can be mined, as can planets. A space fairing race does not look at planets as places to colonise, but as the local lumber yard. They live in space stations built of these planets. You can't miss that on a galaxy wide level. Everything we see up there looks like it should. Nothing is playing with the stars. Ftl is probably not possible.

I don't think that technological advancement happens on a descrete scale to allow a logical timeline like that.

humans took millions of years to move past hunter gather, roasting rats over fires. progress was stagnate. technology in the 1200s was no better than some other dead cultures at 3k BC. then tech exploded in the early 1800s again.

nothing says it won't take another million to colonise things like the moon or mars most likely you would do Lagrange 3 and 5 stations to serve as a path to the next closest object, much less further out.

I guess if you want to play semantics, no basic elemental resources are never scarce. it's a logistics problem that you still have to mine, refine, distribute etc. the reality though is time and effort are still commodities you have to account for which will make items scarce.

rsync could solve this.

tl;dr of it is the faster you move, the slower time ticks.
Eventually when you hit speed of light, it is zero.
Above the speed of light, it flips. Time-reversal.

Causality being broken would mean you were able to reach a point in time before an event took place and interfere with it.
The reason it doesn't break causality is when you travel out a lightyear, you are literally travelling back a year in time as well.
They are both linked together.

Of course, you think, "well why not just travel at FTL speeds in a circle in orbit, you could travel backwards in time that way!"
DON'T ASK ME, FUCK, HELP, I BROKE MY OWN POINT.
I dunno, magnets.
Congrats, you just invented time travel.
See Self-correcting closed timelike curves.

nah, we are close to solving aging too. Just hang on as long as you can and soon everything but the brain will be easy to replace with cybernetics... So just don't let your brain quit working before we find the cure to aging.

I believe he's following the interpretation that the past is fixed as the time travel already happened. This avoids any causality issues, but it's a boring as fuck interpretation.

Never. You cannot exceed the speed of light. The very concept of "speed" breaks down as you approach c.

The only way is to circumvent space and time (see wormholes), but this is only a science fiction idea at the moment. If you managed to do so, you would break causality and completely fuck the universe anyway.

The curvature of the universe is valued by Omega. The Omega value, if too high, will make the universe expand into a big freeze. If it's too low, the universe will eventually crunch itself into a fiery hellfire unimaginable. However it's been established the omega value is at a value where it's scarily perfect and the universe will just keep expanding forever.

screencapped for next time i get high

who gives a fuck, if we invented this waifubots would come way before it. maybe catgirls even

I was just saying the exact same thing yesterday.

Incorrect. The value was recently updated.
It's way off where it should be.
The acceleration itself is accelerating.
Everyone is currently freaking the fuck out and trying to figure out why.
It's very worrying.

We goin for that big rip. Where we're going, we don't need atoms.

Solution: Don't fucking make rockets OR ships in the first place.

More people should realize the convinience of space PLANES. Airplanes are the dominant aerial vehicles, and it should be the same with spacial vehicles. We need to make a Jet/Rocket hybrid aircraft which uses it's jet engine to fly up high into the atmosphere, and then deactivates the jet engine and activates the rocket engine when it's approaching the airless vacuum of space.

I would make arguments on why we should do this instead and why it's more effective, but it's so obvious that you should figure it out on your own.

>tl;dr of it is the faster you move, the slower time ticks. Eventually when you hit speed of light, it is zero.
>Above the speed of light, it flips. Time-reversal.

This is some retarded high-school logic.

The closer you get to c, the slower your clock appears to the observer in a "stationary" reference frame. Your time, as observed by you, doesn't slow down at all. You might think that this implies exceeding c (despite requiring infinite energy) means you are going back in time, but it doesn't.

>Your time, as observed by you, doesn't slow down at all
It's been measured.
Fuck up.
Stop arguing against known physics.

>omega value is at a value where it's scarily perfect

No, this is survivor's bias. We exist in a stable universe because if we didn't, we wouldn't exist to observe it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

What's been measured? Time reversing above c? Then post a link you fucking mongoloid.

No, time slowing down.
It's literally been measured for decades, several times across a range of experiments.
It's been measured in planes for crying out loud. In the 70s. Not even near speeds of light yet.

Fuck sake.
You are arguing against time dilation.
Dying here.

It causes issues even at our pathetically low-energy lives, although still not hugely significant unless you fly or go to space regularly. (or underwater too I guess)
And in that case, it's not the speed that is getting us, but the gravity, which also slows us down.

We can colonize this galaxy in 100,00 years regardless. Leave the FTL for intergalactic shit.

I await the day we just use a massive fucking laser cannon to etch a 3D printer on planets remotely that then prints humans.
EZPZ

I also await the first time we try it and end up doing a Star Wars.

20 years after we develop FTL communication.

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Resources are really the biggest hurdle. We should just forgo it until we figure out time travel.

not in our lifetime obviously if we start colonising other planets we might have a chance otherwise nah..

Test

>Engage warp drive
>Forget to point the destination pointer somewhere
>End up in null space

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Light goes in straight line. That is why I said no cheating with black holes. If you find shortcit in straight line... well I would still say you are faster than light.

ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2013/07/esp-extrasensory-perception-key-to.html

is this why i always wake up in a cell after i go drinking?

yes it slows down but not fukcing reverse you dummy

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shortly after we get an energy source that is neigh on infinite and which doesn't require a giant building to function

In every equation, even unrelated ones, it does.
If we DID reach FTL speeds, that's 100% what happens, otherwise the rest of our physics is utterly broken and wrong.
Every law we have is reversible. It's a fucking foundational part of the entire damn system.*
The chances of time NOT flipping in reverse beyond lightspeed is extremely slim.
We just can't reach those energy ranges required for it.

However, those energy requirements were brought down by recent research by a bunch of teams in uh, 2014 I think it was. Considerably brought down. The expected energies required to bend space were through the roof previously. Now it's just a few generations of expected fusor designs ever since new lasers have been produced over the years that are massively more efficient. (particularly the ones being used in the laser ignition facility)
BUT! We can't even get a stable and profitable working fusor yet, so there is that!

* It's also one of the reasons why people are still seriously confused over matter not being in equal proportions to anti-matter. The equations are all sound, but something is missing. This is why they are desperately trying to figure out why.
For all we know, we might never reach FTL speeds. The universe may very well be asymmetric and we are stuck in this boring shit-tier universe doomed to failure in a few trillion years.

>Conventional rockets are useless in deep space
Why though? Even without traveling faster than light, we can theoretically travel any distance in any duration we want. At least, duration for us as travelers. We might just have to get very close to the speed of light, which is still difficult. But less difficult than exceeding it.

I think they mean more the propellant based ones that are typically used to launch shit to space, maybe less so ones using exotic thrust methods like light-sails and such.

A light-sail could easily get us to a tenth of lightspeed and faster.
Biggest issue with them is also slowing down.
A new test platform is being built now to test these ideas out.
Huge issue with these is rips in the sail.
We are seeing more and more that space is in fact extremely dusty.
How much shit can it collect before the sail rips under the weight? Especially when you consider it moving at a tenth of lightspeed, that cloud of particles will weigh several buildings. Might need to make some holes to allow stuff to get funneled out.

EmDrive, as weird as it is, still has measured thrust despite several different groups attempts to squash issues.
Some solar panels and a heatsink of the fucking gods and we could get sustained thrust on solar for a while.
WOOPS, solar, we'll still need to beam energy to it because solar energy drops off dramatically as you get further out.
But that's another one.
And on the mention of the heatsink, it will require a stupidly good heat management system since it overheats like a motherfucker even on Earth. Space is so fucking difficult to cool things in because it is inert, you can't use conductive or convective cooling like you can down here, the only way to lose heat is radiation which is horribly slow.

Ion Thrusters, on a similar scale to EmDrive, are very efficient consumers of fuel sources (since it is just accelerating ions of its fuel, it can be almost anything) and capable of longer sustained output, but also require heavy power demands too.
Also requires good cooling too.

Very doable.
And at the rate humans are going, we'll very likely cure death in a century, making the time trivial. We can already inject instructions directly now via CRISPR. We just need to figure out the commands of the language DNA.

400-500 years

We already invented FTL travel, we just need to implement it. It is called a wormhole, and it will probably take us a few million years to create one. I predict we will have it right after we finish to build a Dyson sphere around the Sun.

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For data transmission lookup quantum entanglement

Not one you are arguing with.
No. Time doesn't start going backwards according to our current physics. They are likely wrong bit there is no time revelsal BECAUSE according to current physics it is NOT POSSIBLE to go ftl. And once again - our current physics might be wrong.

>implying humanity won't blow itself up before then

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
physics.stackexchange.com/questions/203831/ftl-communication-with-quantum-entanglement

> mfw we measure light with light.

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Yes, yes and ducks go quack.
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