Thoughts on Riot Grrrl punk scene

Hey Sup Forums
I was just wondering what do you think about 90s riot girl music and culture
What do you think about feminism
What are your opinions on punk girls
Are there any fem anons here
And do you like the music beyond the feminism
This can also include bands similar like Hole

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=3hEx1BBdkq4
youtube.com/watch?v=v-xUwDARVb4
youtube.com/watch?v=UP8vraSTJSk
youtube.com/watch?v=CtsRhe58P1c
youtube.com/watch?v=qWUe0laLPg4
youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrq4ZBWlh4
youtube.com/watch?v=xgBRjqDE-24
theguardian.com/music/2016/may/07/never-mind-bus-pass-punks-look-back-wildest-days
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Riot girrl as a current is massively overrated. Most of it is really second-grade punk music for the time that strived thanks to its image rather than its music.

I've heard Sleater-Kinney are good, but them and Bikini Kill are the only groups I'm aware of, and I haven't listened to either yet.

Fuck riot Grrrl and everything it stands for.
Tumblr-the scene

Save yourself the trouble, most of it is three-power-chord-punk that would have been instantly forgotten if it didn't have the "girl power" factor.

Riot girl isn't super tumblr I mean tumblr I would say exploits it just like how they make lgbt look dumb by making all these new labels
Riot girl focuses on real issues like rape sexism and body image its not like its okay to be 400 lbs and sit on a throne just cus your a woman its more of an action to get more female punks and fight against social pressures There's a difference between activism and SJW

It's very passionately made. That's the big attraction to me. I don't know if it's really a genre, but the DIY that permeates the culture of that era is very inspiring to me.

What young person doesn't relate with the urge to rage against their own helplessness?

11/10

youtube.com/watch?v=3hEx1BBdkq4

I liked it years ago, bit worn out now.

Damn straight

The ones I've heard were pretty mediocre even for punk.

If it has to be feminist, I'd rather listen to crust punk.

I'm not really a fan. I don't really have a problem with "le SJWs" as much as some ppl on this site, I just don't think the music is that great.

>This can also include bands similar like Hole
bahahahahahahah
youtube.com/watch?v=v-xUwDARVb4

>Even remotely suggesting that S-K is bad

Where should I start with Sleater-Kinney?

The Woods is pretty good, if not entirely like their older material. I'd suggest that and Dig Me Out.

fem user here. I absolutely love sleater-kinney. They're one of my fave rock bands. I like bikini kill as well, although the music is pretty dated. While not riot grrrl, I like Hole a lot too. I think they're actually better than Nirvana, especially "Live Through This".

I am a feminist but feminist themes aren't enough to get me to listen to music. If I like the music too, then great. War on Women is a newer feminist punk band that's pretty cool. Some of their riffs are pretty thrashy (think early metallica). Punk isn't really my favorite genre tho, so I don't really listen to all that much of it, riot grrrl or otherwise.

Depends on what you want. They've changed their style drastically numerous times, even just album-to-album, so it's hard to recommend something as a sample for how they are overall. You want punk? Their self-titled and Call The Doctor. You want late '90s indie pop? Hot Rock. Hard rock-ish? The Woods. Aggressive new wave/indie rock/whatever labels? Their new album, No Cities to Love.

Start by turning off your pc.

Then T-TURN IT ON T-TURN IT!

Modern Girl is one of the catchiest songs of all time

The consensus seems to be riot grrl is a bit dated but whatever, and sleater-kinney is really good.

lol if you actually read anything from the riot grrrl scene at the time you wouldn't be saying any of this

Do KFC Murder Chicks count as riot grrrl? I won't lie, I'm new to the genre, but starting to get into it. I haven't heard any more electronically-oriented acts.

Riot Grrrl was a specific punk scene in the early-mid 90s. Idk that there were many electronic acts. Le Tigre was a bit more electronic (Kathleen Hannah of Bikini Kill's next band) but they aren't really riot grrrl. It's possible to have aggressive, female fronted, punk with feminist lyrics and not be riot grrrl.

is The Woods even riot grrrl by that point 'cause it's the only Sleater-Kinney album I like

Not really. Honestly, everything after like, dig me out no longer resembles riot grrrl, and even that's a stretch. Riot Grrrl was more of a specific time than anything. Later Sleater-Kinney is just punk/alternative rock with feminist leaning lyrics.

okay, I like Bikini Kill too but man The Woods is really good.

I think that it's okay to express your beliefs in your music but shit like this is basically the advertising jingle of youth politics.
It may be worth mentioning that I probably wouldn't like many of the associated artists or their fans on a personal level.

The Woods is my favorite too

>'90s
How about now?

Any band getting so much hate must be doing something right.

I think she's fascinating.

Riot Grrl is a joke in itself. I'm not a feminist, but if they were really trying to advocate feminism, then why were there mostly only white women involved in the Riot Grrl movement? Isn't feminism about including all types of women? Always thought that was sort of backwards. Music wise, it's also shit. The only decent band I can think of is Sleater-Kinney, they are actually not that bad except their first album.

The definition of white feminism.
70s punk women > 90s punk women
I respect them both but the former is overall superior .

I like the bands though, just not the whole ethic behind it.

A faux scene created my Ian from Minor Threat to "empower" women but turned in on itself and became a cancerous wound in the already dying punk scene which fails to acknowledge that IT WAS CREATED BY A MAN AND HAS NO DIY ASPECTS TO IT. The only good band from this (who weren't heavily tied to it as they didn't rely on 100% gimmicks0 was L7.

litrally whom

What you're thinking of is called intersectionality, and no, not all feminisms actually employ it. The suffragettes for example only cared about white women getting the right to vote, and in many cases women of color didn't earn the right to vote until decades later. There were probably only white women involved in riot grrrl because it was primarily concerned with the issues of upper middle class white women (not to say those issues are unimportant, but yeah).

It's like when marriage equality was treated as the biggest issue facing gay people in the US. Maybe if you're white upper middle class, but for many gay people of lower socio economic status issues like homelessness, AIDS, and violence were a lot more pressing.

>100% gimmicks
is making good rock songs a gimmick?

Sleater-Kinney are the embodiment of "we are posers and embrace it", they're miles better than any other riot grrrl band but they're leagues below any punk band before them.

yeah but they wrote good songs, who actually cares about the bullshit ethos?

People care as they give the impression they had them.

yeah this

Tbf, they're really only tangentially associated with riot grrrl. They kind of outgrew the scene after their first few albums. Also, how are they posers?

this.

cus carrie sold out to the jewgold at IFC xd

They weren't really, they latched onto it to gain more fame.

From the top of my head: Bob's Burgers. Total poser move to do that. Plus the use of a faux scene to gain traction when they otherwise would be dumped as a second rate Alt-Rock band is a poser move.

Also:
"Sleater-Kinney's musical style sprang from and was rooted in Olympia, Washington's fertile punk and independent rock scenes of the early- to mid-1990s, forming around the last years of the riot grrrl movement, and with Tucker and Brownstein coming from veteran acts from the beginning of the movement. "

Typical apologist knowing nothing of integrity and relying on demeaning other's beliefs.

I meant to say: they didn't really outgrow it.

punks are literally the crabs-in-a-barrel of music

look at these giant sell-outs with no integrity

Okay, except they didn't latch onto it. Heavens to Betsy and Excuse 17 were both part of the scene, and the first couple SK albums certainly fit that mold as well. And like, it's not like they ditched their feminist leaning lyrical content, which is like half of what defined riot grrrl in the first place.

Punk has been dead since The Clash, everyone knows this. Post CBS The Clash is mainstream rock.

>it's not like they ditched their feminist leaning lyrical content, which is like half of what defined riot grrrl in the first place.

So are you trying to say "you're wrong but you sort of have a point" or that I'm right? Either or; the popularity of riot grrl enabled them to reach an audience they wouldn't have gotten otherwise as their aesthetic suited the mainstream of the time.

Soooo it's been dead since '77? s/t isn't even that good.

I'm still saying they were a part of the scene for a period, and then moved on. I don't necessarily see how that's them using the scene for fame? They still seem to hold the same values they always did?

Ultimately I think we might be coming from two different places w/regards to punk. I don't place much weight in the concept of "selling out". Whereas it seems you do, so under your definition did they sell out? Probably, I guess. I just sort of see it as a non issue. Just because they got more popular doesn't mean they compromised their values.

Pretty much, yes. The only sub-scenes in Punk post 77 are Anarcho-Punk/Crust Punk (early wave) and Hardcore (early wave), other like D-Beat and Powerviolence had integrity also as for the most part it stayed true to the scene. The Clash are trash so yeah you're right, it isn't.

They used the drive at the time to capitalize, that's the most anti-"punk" thing you can do, if they stayed indie and did it, sure, the way they did was like any pop rock band which is what they became.

>They still seem to hold the same values they always did?

So? Bono holds the same beliefs he had when U2 started as Post-Punk do you see anyone say he stayed true to the scene?

They never sold out, they were always a pop rock band and continued to be. You can be a popstar and never compromise your values, the problem with them is they were never punk and never will be.

S-K is definitely example of where Sup Forums's inherent mysoginy makes it impossible to discuss a legitimate artist

yeah the riot grrrl movement was kinda forgettable but they really put out some great albums, especially dig me out, the hot rock and the fucking woods

I've literally never seen one decent discussion thread about their music here that didn't descend into Sup Forums-tier bullshit about the fact that they have vaginas

corin's voice is cool and the interlocking guitar/ vocal thing never gets old for me

also the woods is just the most ridiculously great in-your-face rawk album ever

they shoulda left S-K dead tho instead of doing that lame comeback

Okay, I see what you're saying. I guess I just don't see it as a big deal whether or not they stayed true to the scene.

Why do you type like this.

Is it to emphasise your point and that you have the moral upperhand?

As it isn't working it makes you look insecure about your opinion.

I can use ad hominems too: you come from tumblr.

See I did it.

Monosyllabic sentences don't justify or nullify your stance, they only make you look passive aggressive.

Did I make my point or are you going to call me a misogynist pig for not liking your favourite "alt" band that only you like?

yr funny :)

Yeah, it bums me out sometimes. There are so many good artists that mu just can't discuss without descending into slurs and pol level alt right conspiracy theories. This thread's been okay though. I tried to start a thread about feminist punk once, but it seems most people can't listen to it without getting angry. I don't get it, if I, as a feminist, can enjoy music with sexist themes, why can't these guys enjoy music with feminist themes?

>I've literally never seen one decent discussion thread about their music here that didn't descend into Sup Forums-tier bullshit about the fact that they have vaginas
most everyone here is having a simple discussion about whether they like or dislike it based on the music, bub

Music that's overtly political tends to be bad, look at RAC, would you enjoy a thread of RAC and have a sincere discussion about it? More than like not. If you can't make good music whilst being subtle in your political stance then you are using it as a crutch to get money from those who otherwise would ignore you.

Yeah, this thread has turned out alright, barring a few anons at the start. Let's not ruin it.

Bob Dylan?

I've never really listened to RAC, but I'm not opposed to discussing it. And like, some would argue that punk is inherently political, and there's lots of good punk out there.

There are so many artists who are political and also make good music.

>tends to be

Plus, even though I dislike his music, at least Dylan makes good use of metaphor and symbolism whereas most feminist music/ political stanced music does not.

I would say that would change if you say "1488 kill all the naggers heil Hitler" et al throughout, in the same vein when someone sees they're not going to let it slid, they'll call the person out. Punk doesn't fully correlate with politics, further to this a lot of punk bands make good use of subtly tackling politics without resorting to outright rhetoric attack.

all I know about riot grrrl is that sleater kinney was a part of the genre and sleater kinney are fucking incredible

as for its political qualities, I generally think the core message is positive and one I would support but I don't really give a shit about politics in music.

You ought to check out New Glory. The most passionate Patriotic Oi! band ever:
youtube.com/watch?v=UP8vraSTJSk

>sleater kinney
Can't say I've heard anything from this band, but in my experience, Riot Grrrl! is fucking shite. I especially hate Bikini Kill. Babes in Toyland is alright, but hardly what I call Riot Grrrl! 7 Year Bitch has some okay tunes, but tons of duff shit.

If you ask me, Crust Punk does feminism better:
youtube.com/watch?v=CtsRhe58P1c

>punk has been dead since the clash

You're retarded

You're just delusional, Crass (undeniably one of the most "punk" bands ever conceived) talked about this already. Once Punk became an image it lost direction. Having a mohawk, camo pants with boots and sewn patches does not make one punk.

>all bands after the clash were only as punk as their image


Still retarded

No really.
youtube.com/watch?v=qWUe0laLPg4
youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrq4ZBWlh4

"Their music was no better than your average rock’n’roll, but their politics were archetypal trendy leftist whitewash, which for all its bravado did little but dis-empower and disillusion a body of youth who deserved (and expected) better."
Penny Rimbaud, on The Clash

You should actually listen to punk before forming opinions about it

>all bands

Never said this, obviously your reading comprehension needs a touch up Mr. Sup Forums greentexter.

"Year that's right Punk is dead / It's just another cheap product for the consumer's head / Bubblegum rock on plastic transistors / Schoolboy sedition backed by big time promoters / CBS promote the Clash / But it ain't for revolution, it's just for cash."

youtube.com/watch?v=xgBRjqDE-24

Sleater-Kinney jams hard.

> one band sells out
> an entire genre and ideology is somehow discredited
>thinking the opinion of one junkie musician is the authority on a movement that involved millions of people

Rollercoaster is the best S-K song and The Woods is obv their best album, but I'm beginning to think this album is a close second

Btdubs crass along with most other European punk blows

Cool it lad, you may get TOO many girls running after you with those hot keyboard skills of yours greentexting.

It wasn't just "one band", there were several big names that sold out andthere wasn't a real "ideology" it was music for the working class that became more. This "junkie musician" you speak of has more integrity and importance than any of the mainstream bands at the time but nice downplay. Perhaps you'll argue how true the grunge scene was and how it was revolutional, yes?

How much integrity is there in selling off stolen equipment for smack? The more "tru" a punk is, the more obnoxious.

If that stolen equipment is from an upper middle class "punk" with a mohawk then it is very integral. If you can't appreciate your favourite "punk" band's music and realise that they weren't as punk as those record execs led you to beleive then kudos.

crusties will rob anyone, they're junkies.

Steve Ignorant isn't a crust. Besides, this has devolved way beyond the main point; punk is dead, move on.

>Steve Ignorant isn't a crust
He's actually a decent bloke in real life:
theguardian.com/music/2016/may/07/never-mind-bus-pass-punks-look-back-wildest-days

He found his calling as a lifeboatman.

>Getting btfo
>better focus on the color of the text in his post

I hardly count a Sup Forums tier post of ad hominem and use of "autism" to undue an argument as being Sup Forumstfo considering I explained how my reasoning isn't as he presented it, however I'm sure you know this already.

I don't think comparing a white supremacist punk band to riot grrrl bands is really fair. I'm not opposed to checking it out though. Even if I dislike it, I'm sure it'll be an interesting experience. Plus, even if I can't get behind the ideology the melodies/riffs/whatever might be good.

Someone posted this in a thread about political punk music about a month or so back.

>I don't think comparing a white supremacist punk band to riot grrrl bands is really fair

It's perfectly fair; both are polarized extremes which do not represent the majority of their message but use music as a front to gain more listeners.

No, they really aren't. We're speaking specifically about the brand of feminism that riot grrrl promotes, which is in no way comparable to white supremacy.

The bran riot grrl promotes is third wave which has many contradictions in it, the brand of nationalism RAC promotes is also a loose interpretation of the original idea woth contradictions. The shoe fits.

There are problems with third wave feminism, but they aren't the MRA nonsense you've been fed by the internet.

Who said anything about MRA? Are you angry that it's being compared to White Nationalism?

No, I'm not angry. I'm just assuming the contradictions to which you're referring are the same kinds of MRA talking points (i.e. the wage gap doesn't exist, false rape accusations are an epidemic, ect). If that's not accurate I'm sorry for assuming. It's just that I've had conversations like these many times before, and they tend to be frustrating.