New programming languages that have a bright future

Noah Cruz
Noah Cruz

So do you guys think Nim has a chance to become something great in the coming years?

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All urls found in this thread:

ponylang.org/
my.hipster.com/webapi?call={args}")
nim-lang.org/araq/destructors.html
docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/tutorials/type-providers/)
flutter.io/)
crystal-lang.org/2013/11/14/good-bye-ruby-thursday.html

Brody Rogers
Brody Rogers

So do you guys think Nim has a chance to become something great in the coming years?
In order to do so, they really have to get their shit together.

William Powell
William Powell

fantastic addition user, really great job there pointing out something that is universally true for any new group/project/language/company/etc.

Levi White
Levi White

I think C++17 has an astounding future.

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Jaxon Jackson
Jaxon Jackson

Contra example: every too-big-to-fail company ever

Xavier Price
Xavier Price

I give you: Crystal. Extremely comfy to write programs in, safely yet dynamically typed, con throw it through the llvm stack to get extremely fast binaries. What's not to love?
crystal-lang.org btw

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Jeremiah Sullivan
Jeremiah Sullivan

safely yet dynamically typed
it's statically typed and statically type checked, which is what you probably meant when saying "dynamically typed"
What's not to love?
- state of the GC
- state of the IR generator
- state of the windows port
- state of the language spec/implementation about concurrency assumptions
- state of the error message frontend
until those are finished, see t. occasional Crystal user

Kayden Carter
Kayden Carter

I just wish it gained the traction of Go. The world would be a better place than.

Rust and C++ can have their 'muh no GC ree11!!' followers, but Nim beats Go in everything except Google usage. Language is clean, performs well, works on almost every platform under the sun, readable and you can get started after 2 days(just read the tutorial and get to it).
Stdlib needs a bit of a touchup and more pure nim libraries are needed imho(C / C++ libs are really easy to bind).

Ryder Lopez
Ryder Lopez

Jai looks pretty fucking neato and the progress on the compiler is seriously impressive, but it’s not getting a public release until some time later this year.

Connor Cruz
Connor Cruz

I meant that you don't have to specify types of you don't want to or don't have a reason to. The overall state of the language is not bad at all, also
windows port
Yeah no we don't need that

Cameron Phillips
Cameron Phillips

I meant that you don't have to specify types if you don't want to or don't have a reason to.
Actually it's only partial type inference - for good reasons - and flow based type inference gets annoying often enough. Ideally they would made function/method signatures forced manifest, but I can understand that this would drive away Ruby weenies.

The overall state of the language is not bad at all
as long as you do fizzbuzz/web shit, that may be true, but as soon as you do "advanced" stuff, a lot of things break in surprinsing ways, like type inferrence.

windows port
Yeah no we don't need that
Ironically this is probably the first thing to be finished.

this

Josiah Flores
Josiah Flores

What about Julia? Is that shit the bomb, seems pretty fast at least.

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Samuel Murphy
Samuel Murphy

The only newish langs I'm hype for are purescript and Elm.

Henry Nguyen
Henry Nguyen

I love Nim!

Caleb Edwards
Caleb Edwards

Seems like a feasible way to fill this particular niche, at last. That said, I'm a little bit worried about the implementation itself, like all scientific software they will find a way to botch it.

Levi Hill
Levi Hill

Julia is nice, but they mainly focus on scientific computing. Main problem will be convincing people to fuck off from Python or R. They have great arguments to switch but their ecosystem is weak.
Nim's biggest contender(currently Go) will be Kotlin Native

Ryder Bailey
Ryder Bailey

Main problem will be convincing people to fuck off from Python or R.
This. Scientist give less than a fuck about the quality of their tools until one of those tools make them publish false data that will make their pyramid citation system crumble.

Jeremiah Johnson
Jeremiah Johnson

we could use more monitors

Austin Anderson
Austin Anderson

Why would I use it instead of R for statistics or Python for machine learning? Being serious, I'm really interested but don't see the advantage yet.

Brandon Moore
Brandon Moore

How is it for learning to program ?

Jace Harris
Jace Harris

If youre just a casual programmer youre not going to see a huge difference between Julia and Python. Julia has better higher order functions, better module system, cleaner syntax (no double underscore built-in functions everywhere), its all about reducing friction and making data programming easier and more intuitive. And since most data science jobs are centered around web data, using R is no longer practical as it is very clunky to use in a web context.

Grayson Brooks
Grayson Brooks

Nim's GC is not thread safe, you have to use generic bdwgc to accommodate this. Good luck.

Kayden Perry
Kayden Perry

Has anyone tried Pony, I saw it mentioned and I dont know if it is legit or just another experimental language
ponylang.org/

Levi Anderson
Levi Anderson

In theory, unlike R it doesn't look like a shotgunned face and unlike Python it isn't slow as fuck and doesn't require you to drop to C and take performance hits every time you call a binding or write shitty just-in-time compilers for special DSLs.
In reality, most scientists probably most likely won't care, but Julia could pose an advantage to some fields like the machine learning meme, biocomputing, computer vision and geospatial modelling.

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson

any zi/g/ fans here?

Angel Diaz
Angel Diaz

using R is impracticle in a web context

library('jsonlite’)
payload = fromJSON("my.hipster.com/webapi?call={args}")

OMG so hard

Landon Murphy
Landon Murphy

If you start with c# or python it'll be a great second language, for beginners its not there yet

Julian Morris
Julian Morris

why is everyone trying to make and shill c++ replacements recently

Carson Martinez
Carson Martinez

1. Obviously people are dissatisfied with C++. From what I am reading though C++14 (or something like that) is a nice lang to work with.
2. Compile times only should make you want something better
3. Nim isn't for C++, I think. Nim is for people that want a performant lang, fast compile times and expressiveness(with it's almost Lisp macro system and templates). Currently using a realtime gc so you can make games etc without dropping fps. So unless you're working on _really_ constrained embedded stuff, you'll be aight.
Nim might drop it's GC in the future: nim-lang.org/araq/destructors.html

Liam Hernandez
Liam Hernandez

Can someone tell me what the up and up on
Scala
F#
Ocaml
Haskell

are?
I guess as you can tell the functional bug has bit me.

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Joshua Sanders
Joshua Sanders

Common Lisp already exists. All these new hipster languages are unecessary.

Leo White
Leo White

I can import web data into Excel
btfo huuuur

Eli Cook
Eli Cook

Because C++ can't get better.

Anthony Young
Anthony Young

I tried all of these except Haskell.
Between Scala and F# you're basically choosing between the JVM or the .NET environment. Scala also has more jobs. I prefer F# because it's cleaner and has a lot less concepts and in repos I've seen it can get messy unless you're a Scala-master.
If you know F# the learning curve for Ocaml is like 6 hours or something max. ReasonML makes OCaml a lot more comfier. You'd choose OCaml/ReasonML if you want to webdev(Bucklescript and it's community is great!)
Can't tell you much about Haskell sorry I do not want to go full functional, cause I noticed myself writing less code and more arguing bout monads etc.

Quick shill for Nim: nim has some nice fp support and third libs that provide fp data structures. Try it hueheuhe.

Dylan Bailey
Dylan Bailey

too-big-to-fail
new
are you retarded?

Gabriel Cruz
Gabriel Cruz

no, you are
Not every company is a shitty startup at day one.

Jacob Martinez
Jacob Martinez

this comes pre-sjwd so no

Samuel Campbell
Samuel Campbell

I give you: Crystal. Extremely comfy to write programs in, safely yet dynamically typed, con throw it through the llvm stack to get extremely fast binaries. What's not to love?
Its a compiled version of Ruby...like why would anyone use a compiled scripting language. Crystal was originally interpreted, if they would make a fork of Crystal that ran interpreted the language might actually take off

Kayden Evans
Kayden Evans

They don't have a CoC, hell even the BDFL can be a rude dude from time to time(he's reasonable though), so can you tell me what drugs you on so I can be retarded too?

Jaxson Jones
Jaxson Jones

Haskell is the best
Scala is almost as powerful as haskell but is bogged down by its standard library and language design making some things that are simple in haskell painfully complex in scala.
I've never used ocaml.
F# lacks typeclasses and some of the other higher level abstractions of scala and haskell.

If you're getting into stuff now and don't have platform constrains haskell is the easy winner.

Kind regards from a professional scala developer.

Justin Hill
Justin Hill

Can someone tell me what the up and up on
Scala
failed experiment to combine OO and FP

F#
subset of Ocaml that runs on .NET, whats not to love

Ocaml
Haskell
Rust has all the features of Ocaml, type inference, optional types, immutable variables by default. Using a FP language that forces you to use recursion for looping is just idiotic. Extra autism points for anyone who thinks that monads actually do anything.

Owen Campbell
Owen Campbell

Anyone here have an opinion on Dart? Ive heard it can compile to binary

Luke Moore
Luke Moore

Doesn't F# have type providers( docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/tutorials/type-providers/) that somewhat compensate the lack of typeclesses?

Also most of those `higher level abstractions` in Scala I've seen in the wild lead to spaghetti code.

Sebastian Nguyen
Sebastian Nguyen

Underrated language somewhat(it does Java really well). If you know any OOP lang you should be able to learn it in a weekend. But you'll probbly won't use it for anything beside client-side webdev or flutter(flutter.io/)
Flutter is awesome.

Jace Garcia
Jace Garcia

That's mainly owing to how I referred to things as being needlessly complex to express.

I've seen some serious abuse of the power of scala too.

Type provides sadly aren't on the level of true type classes.

Andrew Carter
Andrew Carter

Crystal was originally interpreted, if they would make a fork of Crystal that ran interpreted the language might actually take off
what did he mean by this

Alexander Sanchez
Alexander Sanchez

My bad, get your point now.

Jonathan Gonzalez
Jonathan Gonzalez

I want to learn a fp programming language but I have trouble deciding

Haskell, idris, agda, scala, common lisp.
It's all so nutty
Maybe I should just learn bash

Oliver Barnes
Oliver Barnes

name one single company that was too-big-to-fail within the first quarter of its conception

Levi Foster
Levi Foster

Several mining companies. Heavy metal works factories. Canonical.

Julian Moore
Julian Moore

Haskell.

It teaches concepts perfectly. Moving to the others means only learning how to implement those concepts.

Trust me on this. Haskell is way easier to learn to do things and do them well than scala for instance.
. Again for context I write scala for a living. We might be bringing in haskell soon though.

Colton Lewis
Colton Lewis

In that case yeah Haskell.
Maaaaaaaaayyybbeeeee OCaml first but I think Haskell will be better.

Mason King
Mason King

Is haskell really used in industry ?

Gabriel Turner
Gabriel Turner

lisp>haskell.
Lain uses lisp.
Haskell is for brainlets

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Luke Butler
Luke Butler

Not widely but there is a growing community and general recognition of what it offers in terms of static analysis and maintainability.

Julian Price
Julian Price

what's with the pic?

Angel Martinez
Angel Martinez

what did he mean by this
this is what I meant:
crystal-lang.org/2013/11/14/good-bye-ruby-thursday.html

Jaxson Morales
Jaxson Morales

What makes lisp so much better

Nathan Rivera
Nathan Rivera

Lain uses it.

Jacob Scott
Jacob Scott

I like it. Wrote a small program last month.

Xavier King
Xavier King

Lisp is a metaprogramming language to the extreme, its homoiconic syntax allows very deep levels of macro programming. Most people who learn Lisp, especially Clojure, never bother to learn how to metaprogram in Lisp and use Lisp like a regular scripting language, hence the Lisp/Clojure hype died out

Ayden Johnson
Ayden Johnson

Rust has all the features of Ocaml

And a shit syntax.

Eli Nelson
Eli Nelson

You act like recursion is bad.

It's so much simpler.

Also confirmed for having no idea what monads are or what they are for.

Carson Sullivan
Carson Sullivan

Scala>Haskell

Ryan Jones
Ryan Jones

It really isn't better at all. Once you do a deep enough dive into scala you'll see.

Fucking trampolines and shit yo.

Josiah Ward
Josiah Ward

what does your program do?

Alexander Collins
Alexander Collins

Haskell is for spoiled academics, soyboy language

Scala is for real workers, real true hackers.
Lisp is for geniuses true OG

Angel Evans
Angel Evans

You act like recursion is bad.
It's so much simpler.
Its not, its even more complicated and error prone than for/while loops with explicit iterator variables. You should avoid recursion the same way you avoid loops by using iterator/mapping functions

Juan Morgan
Juan Morgan

Scala is for real workers, real true hackers.
what little use of Scala there is will be completely erased by Kotlin

Angel Reyes
Angel Reyes

D is the best C++ killer

Ayden Miller
Ayden Miller

professional scala developer.
So how about those compile times?
I keed, I keed.
What are the parts you love and hate the most about working with picrel, and how long have you been doing it?

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Juan Murphy
Juan Murphy

Kotlin is too hard to learn

Dylan Perry
Dylan Perry

Lisp is a metaprogramming language to the extreme, its homoiconic syntax allows very deep levels of macro programming
Is that a good thing? Doesn't that lead to the problem of unreadable codebases where every source file is essentially written in its own domain specific language?

Thomas Phillips
Thomas Phillips

Haskell is way easier to learn to do things and do them well than scala for instance.
Not claiming this for everything, right?
I'm thinking the impedance mismatch between a lazy, pure language and most (messy) real life tasks might give a more pragmatic (and less pure) language an advantage quite often.
Conversely, CS papers and Haskell compilers are definitely better served by Haskell than by Scala.

Jaxson Ward
Jaxson Ward

google "haskell tax" for a hint
shit b8 m8, they've each got their pros and cons

Eli Cook
Eli Cook

t. russki
Scala is for real haslel wannabes, real Java++ pajeets
Lisp is for true le wrong generation autists
ftfy

Isaiah Thompson
Isaiah Thompson

Nothing, it's a meme.

Jacob Foster
Jacob Foster

I can't tell if lisp is a meme or not
Ahhh

Do I learn kotlin or haskell if I found java intolerable

Nathan Scott
Nathan Scott

Python implicit bracketing style
Ruby 2-space indents
Unnecessarily obtuse keyword and syntax for no conceivable gain
Nim has potential but it has a lot of really fucking stupid decisions.

Jaxson Garcia
Jaxson Garcia

metaprogramming does have practical application, pic related is good at explaining how to take advantage of it in a language like Ruby. But Lisp is just pure metaprogramming, very few people say theyre Lisp programmers really understand this

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Andrew Howard
Andrew Howard

Good things are that there are pure fp libraries that can give you the majority of the tools you need to do things.
Bad thing is that the lack of purity in the language and the level of bullshit that's possible leads to some really nightmarish codebases when written by people who aren't as principled about their design choices.

Giving myself nightmares again about our one html parser.

Once well versed and practiced in fp there is real problem to solve messy problems in a pure way. It's no harder than the nature of the problem itself.

Most of our code is strictly pure scala that could easily be expressed haskell much more succinctly.

Tyler Nguyen
Tyler Nguyen

Clojure is neat but I personally would say to go the route of a language supporting solid static analysis out of the box.

Haskell is still the king here for usability.

Kayden Jones
Kayden Jones

can't tell if lisp is a meme or not
protip: if Sup Forums's meeming it, there's a pretty decent chance it's a meem
kotlin or haskell if java intolerable
give kotlin a shot, to make use of your pre-existing conditions^Wknowledge - their sales pitch is that java pajeets can be productive in it in under a day/afternoon/whatever
learn haskek for the same reason you'd learn Lisp or Prolog - to get a more well rounded education of the different points in PL design space, and get access to different POVs for solving shit. Don't expect it to be a pragmatic language, although it's the most pragmatic one out of the academic wank roster.

Nicholas Torres
Nicholas Torres

Oh yeah, if you lads are going strict purity, it does seem like Haskell would be the better choice.
Hope you can gradually (and successfully, business-wise) transition.

Dominic Jackson
Dominic Jackson

ctrl+F pony
no discussion
It looks unique, at least. Any thoughts?

Wyatt Hernandez
Wyatt Hernandez

Seems to be a rust tryhard

Jack Cooper
Jack Cooper

where the /kotlin/ shills at

And does the future look bright?

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Christian Taylor
Christian Taylor

To be honest we should all give up, the next gen languages are Go and Rust

Luis Ross
Luis Ross

I get the feeling that with "worse is better" in full swing decade-on-decade for over half a century now, the best proglangs will not reach significant uptake and be left to iconoclasts and mad geniuses.

In that case you should learn them because they're the best, not because they'll get you a job. Or if they get you a job, it'll be a rare job but a better job. Who wants to compete with the literal army of third-world Java programmers?

Tyler Barnes
Tyler Barnes

Unfortunate name.

Gabriel Morales
Gabriel Morales

2-space indents
stupid decision
say that to my face in real life

Andrew Bennett
Andrew Bennett

Please, share

Nicholas Gomez
Nicholas Gomez

I really hate that it uses unions types where it should use sums.

Austin Johnson
Austin Johnson

Maybe when it's stable... I'd miss RAII a lot though.

Lucas Johnson
Lucas Johnson

It borrows a lot from Pascal and Python.
Those aren't stupid design decisions, you just can't handle change.

Parker White
Parker White

New programming language
Bright future

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