An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This will differ from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music.
Post clyps, and please post accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
is this worth reading or am i better off reading some contemporary counterpoint textbook
Ryan Clark
i love it, its helped me alot. Can you really refuse to read the book that Beethoven trusted?
new ideas always help (though this is technically an old idea)
John Long
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Colton Lewis
use this to make chord progression (remember to break the rules whenever you feel like it)
Easton Howard
This sounds like a good idea for a general. Even if I don't compose it would be interesting to here your stuff and get different ideas and theories on Classical music.
Bentley Diaz
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Benjamin Parker
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Zachary Price
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Hunter Young
How do you pronounce Fux?
Thomas Hernandez
fooks, long -oo like shampoo
Levi Smith
dubs
Xavier Ramirez
>Posting this bait
Ryder Rivera
>the intros and solos are the job of the lead guitarist
Parker Lee
could anyone explain linear counterpoint to me?
Ryan Murphy
>counterpoint >harping about progressions that dont include goat ii- V7 I >no blues, no rhythm changes, certainly no latin >what are changes even doe >what is the diminished mode >what are modes even >what is harmonic minor >what modes come from whoah you flatted the 3rd >what is super locrian >what is a 7th chord >what is a flat 9, sharp 11, flat 13 dominant? >what are all these numbers >in how many keys do you find c major 7? >what is comping >what is polyrhythm
>not knowing your jazz theory >still harping on about sonataallegro in 2016 >intro chorus bridge chorus trade 8's chorus outro >what is the piano
>mfw lydian is the true center or tonal gravity, and C is a lie >mfw i know literally nothing about music
Noah Mitchell
hate the fact that this got buried. I'd post my compositions if i w-w-w-w-w-weren't unconfident desu. y'all can post yours though and I'll tell you what I think of it. c'mon, don't be shy, I won't even call you a fag if I hate it, I promise. keep in mind that this coming from someone who's been composing classically for a year and a half, so I may be a bit of a newbie
Henry Flores
Jazz is art music, too, your compositions are welcome
The harmony is especially interesting, do you have a good resource to add to the copypasta?
Chase Ortiz
Can you explain how to write a solid musical period and sentence?
Nathaniel Morgan
you mean like cadences & melodies? you really have to learn how to construct melodies, you could probably be taught that perfect fifths and fourths "feel" pure and that tritones "feel" weird and that major/minor seconds "feel" tense, but that will only serve clarify what you're already likely to learn naturally. as for cadences, you can do what you like. traditionally one will end on the tonic, but you can end with a specific melodic line that's repeated throughout the comp, or with the fourth or fifth degree, or even with some dissonant tone. it's all about what fits & what sounds good. btw I'm bad with music theory terminology, sorry
Camden Peterson
best theory is jazz theory. ive had classical teachers that just do not understand that there is a universe beyond the planet of the 7 major modes.
levines jazz book. post a torrent theres tons of em. i recommend a pastebin.
but this is all presupposing you all can read the black dots on lines and between the lines. and know at least your major scales. and considering the abundant raping of the guitar that goes on around here, something tells me nobody can play me a rootless 251 in drop 2 around the cycle.
all the books i have are for piano. but essentially know all your modes. "minor" is almost always the natural minor built from the 6th mode. which is lol still "major".
flat the 3rd degree, you get 7 new modes. welcome to jazz. add a passing tone between the 5th/6th degree, woah u get a world of new modes. whole tone harmony, coltrane changes, all based off augmented chord tones (stack major thirds, they cycle after the 3rd iteration). diminished chords are stacked minor 3rds,cycle after the 4th iteration.
diminished scales, 3 total. from each scale you can derive 4 dominant chords.
a -7b5 chord (minor triad w/ 6 in the base aka HALFDIM) is a rootless dominant chord with a b9. each major/natural minor key has 2 major chords, 1 -7b5, 1 dom7, 3 minor.
this guy. this guy knows shit about music. i dont. i can barely fucking arrange a standard.
Blake Hughes
Trained composer here. I support this thread
Posting a few maqams for those interested in microtonal music
You can find more info here on what the microtonal symbols mean and how much to retune notes (all DAWs will let you fine tune notes to at least the nearest 10 cents, if not the nearest cent): hinesmusic.com/What_Are_Makams.html
Jose Bennett
whaddya think of Alois Haba famalam? he's the one who got me into microtonal music
How does a jazz musician compose? It must be difficult to leave enough room for improv
William Richardson
How did you guys memorize your scales? One major/minor per day?
Ryder Scott
the fuck are you on about Levine's book is outdated af, modal playing is not exactly new, and classical music teachers past your undergrad intro to music theory are certainly at the very least aware of the concepts you outlined because serialist and post tonal music has been around for nearly ONE-HUNDRED YEARS.
its hypocritical to criticise the classical music theory and analysis school for being outdated or backwards when academic jazz theory has fallen into the exact same situation
OH, and the lydian chromatic concept is basically a hippy conspiracy theory
Lucas Bell
Haba is fucking great. I have respect for any composer who manages to make microtonal music sound good! That particular piece you posted doesn't even sound microtonal, only towards the last minute or so.
Angel Lewis
there's something about the violin that seems to work with microtonal music. played on piano it usually sounds like shit, but on violin, at its very worst, it sounds like regular dissonance. btw the only really good microtonal piano piece I've actually heard is by Alois: youtube.com/watch?v=s7vZURdhucM
Chase Gonzalez
nah man, lamonte young's microtonal piano stuff is great
Camden Ortiz
damn, you're right. it's always fun to find microtonal music that isn't just trying to be edgy or something.
Jonathan Price
>My favorite circle graph
Question, can a balanced knowledge in theory be attained through online resources? It's been a difficult journey learning and I find it hard to connect the dots when I try to create. Most of the time I create with intuition and edit with theory
Jace Harris
>Most of the time I create with intuition and edit with theory same t b h. most of what i do is intuition. my intuition is shit tho
Angel Jackson
ive gone through so many books dude what the fuck why cant i play a standard
Jose Allen
How do you explain to a tone deaf girl the difference and similarity between g3 and g4 (an octave)
Jacob Butler
That is the most confusingest chart I've ever seen. TMI
>tfw last composition workshop JP was my mentor. He's such a nice guy! amazing music as well. Omnifenix is the best saxohpone concerto yet.
Ayden Gray
Weird and probably stupid question, but are there "scales" that aren't part of the 12 main notes used in most music? All scales, even non-western ones, are all playable by western instruments (usually pentatonic), and there are those weird ones like hexatonic and so forth, which are still describable through A#, A, Ab, and so on.
But can you forget all that and remove one note from the chromatic scale, so that the 12 evenly spaced intervals in an octave become 11 evenly spaced intervals, and so forth? What would that sound like?
If she's actually deaf, the difference between a sine wave with one frequency and another with twice that frequency.
Jayden Thompson
The last mode of Messian's modes of limited transposition is a mode with 11 notes from memory
Easton Cox
tone deaf, and what good does that do? Who the fuck hears via sine wave. Just an all round terrible response
Jackson Perry
You're retarded, you can't explain something to someone that they can't perceive. It's like trying to explain the color blue to a blind person.
Oliver Howard
you're basically describing some types of microtonal music
Nicholas Martinez
>12 evenly spaced intervals
THEY'RE NOT EVENLY SPACED DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND
Think about it, there's an infinite amount of notes between a semitone, we humans just can't hear the differences very well.
Brayden Powell
what if people yelled at 126 db (which is about as loud as a jet engine)
Lucas Bailey
i'm pretty sure those are MIDI numbers, not dB measurements
Luke Clark
They are in equal tempered music
literally the point of post-baroque western harmony
Thanks. The piano hasn't been tuned for years. I stopped playing for a good 4 years, only came back to tinker with it a bit.
Leo Barnes
So do I really have to read fux? I want to into counterpoint but I'm looking for alternatives.
I mean, I can into the theory and stuff, but I wish he just listed the rules systematically or something instead of the whole student teacher story shit.
Also, unrelated, but I see people posting cheatsheets and such, do you guys have /wg/ versions?
Nathan Cruz
>write two or more melodies >hope they go well with each other >they don't >try to fix everything >it's more terrible than before >cry
>This will differ from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. Do I get a pass for this? youtube.com/watch?v=IampNk-k_Ag
Elijah Smith
>How did you guys memorize your scales? One major/minor per day? That's not how you memorise all the scales. Learn the rules of why the notes are there and you only need to really learn one of each. You can just transpose it to whatever key then.
Andrew Flores
They are evenly spaced after about 1750. Thats what the "Well Tempered Clavier" was all about, showcasing the stability of the new tuning system by having preludes and fugues in every key (in the non-standard spaced tunings like pythagorean and mean tone, keys that weren't C, D G or A tended to sound strained and weird)
>I want to into counterpoint but I'm looking for alternatives. University. That or read through a modern harmony textbook. Fux is pretty good to be honest, if you work through his exercises diligently and check your work, you will understand counterpoint.
Salome unrelated
Aaron Anderson
Somewhat old and simple things i would have posted in /comp/ if it existed at that time
>University nope, too late for that >read through a modern harmony textbook. I guess I could do that, Any suggestions? >Fux Maybe if I can't find anything else
Thanks, user
Aiden Long
kostka-payne is pretty commonly used afaik. my local half price books has a ton of them, so yours might too
Andrew Edwards
Dude wtf are you doing to those poor guitars?! Don't lean them on the neck like that, you'll fuck them up. Especially the semi acoustic that is leaned OVER A FUCKING RADIATOR! Jesus I'm triggered so hard by this. Lean them on something where the weight is rested on the body of the guitar so the necks don't warp. And not over a fecking radiator where the heat will make it worse!
Juan Moore
>inventing new triads >new triads >new
u wot
Joshua Campbell
>ER A FUCKING RADIATOR heatings not on
I tak ethem on 10 mile walks without cases, they'll br fine, donmt sweat it
Camden Sanchez
>I tak ethem on 10 mile walks without cases, they'll br fine, donmt sweat it Seriously dude, it won't do it all in one day but leaning them on the neck like that will fuck the action and intonation after a few years. I seriously hope you don't do this.
Nicholas Rivera
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Ian Long
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William Cox
It was a Gibson les paul they are notoriously unbalanced
Jeremiah Watson
If it was a Telecaster I would have been more upset.
Dominic Bell
How do you compose with modes when there's no clear chord progression?
Benjamin Watson
>re's no clear chord progression? it was rained on?
Gavin Morgan
don't bother
Mason Ramirez
Dont know if there are any Singaporeans here, but I wrote this for a compilation of local songs. Thoughts? Once again it's largely improvised, so mistakes are aplenty.
Is there any kind of site for creative composing challenges?
Like, I read a text about Morton Feldman where it mentions he gave his students creative composing challenges, such as a work for soprano and orchestra where the soprano sings an article in the newspaper. Is there some kind of place for shit like that?
I can't check out the video now but I will do it when I have time. Anymore Japanese pianist I should check out?
Brandon Hernandez
>csq no feedback am i this bad /comp/ ?
Josiah Sanchez
Not Japanese, but another of my favourites is Erik Satie.
David Lopez
Are there some books I could just read on this shit instead? I prefer books to online resources for this sort of thing.
Brody Barnes
focus on the tensions and finding some way of resolving them I guess? like 6 to b7 on Mixolydian for example
of course that could imply things like add6 -> 7 chord in whatever the key is, but it could mean something else depending on what the other instruments are playing, etc. so it's ambiguous, but sort of still functional
Julian Perry
Not really good on theory and stuff but I've been playing around with my guitar and muscore for a while I think I sort of get how the notes work, etc ( but probably still suck at reading).
Anyway, I'm not really sure how to continue. Any tips?
Michael Ramirez
pic related if it helps at all lol
Jordan Flores
I can't really provide any constructive criticism, but it's pretty good.
I think you should work on the second song, the part that you've already written coupled with some other instruments could make for a very interesting rhythm section
Austin Collins
Could you provide the .mscz file?
Jonathan Lee
wow, this is really embarassing. how can you deduct from the easiest and most basic classical music theory charts that classical music theory doesn't go any further? all the points of your post are covered very thoroughly in classical music, and in a much more constructive way than in jazz. Jazz musicians always try to explain why something is brillant after the wanked on their instruments, listen to something like Ravel, such raffinesse, and you ask "what are all these numbers" as if composers where idiots that couldn't think about it. Do you even compose?
Michael Lewis
After the second volta, instead of writing out the flat A's and D's you should change the key to F minor
Henry Cruz
filedropper dot com slash untitled-4_3
Thanks, I'll try to see how to do that in muscore
Jack Martin
the 12 tones are derived from stucking perfect fifths with a small difference in the end, which is compnesated by the temperation. A 11 tone system would be completely arbitrary and not built on musical tradition.
Connor Sullivan
depends on how he's going to continue. If you change the key you imply a change in the ductus of the piece, but mostly it's just for some bars. In the development section classical composers hardly ever change the key, also the second theme is always written with accidents to show that there is some kind of tension there.
Jaxon Adams
>Is there some kind of place for shit like that? university / college composition classes are 100% "write x piece for y instruments"
look at renaissance music. They focus on voice leading, and melodies. When the modal melodies interweave in polyphony, it creates tension and release, which is what chords do anyway.
Also modes can and do create chords, your chords are simply made up of the notes from the mode. (see pic)
I mean look at this, entirely in one mode (some raised notes around cadences) and yet some of the most beautiful music ever written: youtube.com/watch?v=BRfF7W4El60
