What do ya'll think about the dynamic between "black music" and "cultural appropriation?"

What do ya'll think about the dynamic between "black music" and "cultural appropriation?"

It seems like the next progression is for black folks to start telling white folks they can no longer listen to so-called "black music," which is only unlikely because the white audience is larger and makes up most of the revenue.

And I use the scare quotes because I don't understand what makes "black music" black. First you would have to assume that it has no white/western influence (it does), then you'd have to assume that white people have never contributed to it (they have). The fact that Justin Timberlake makes authentic R&B demonstrates that there's nothing inherently black about it.

Then some say it comes down to white artists not respecting the origins or pioneers of said music. When has that ever been an issue? I think more white people listen to and appreciate blues and jazz more than do young black people.

I can go on really. I don't want to make this about black people. Just wondering what you all think about this appropriation shit.

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its interesting cuz there is legitimate racist issues going on but people want to focus on this and it just makes more people more racist.

this kind of logic insists that black people and white people are not the same, they are essentially different species.

they'd get mad if we had a whites only fountain but they want black only music? and when i say 'they' i do mean the retards, not black people as a whole.

appropriation is dumb. its not a thing. if you have a problem with invading other cultures that is fine, but its a little too late, were not personally responsible, and in a place like fucking america you can't just ban people from listening to an artist becuase he is black.

hell if you did that they'd just complain were racist for not appreciating black artist.

i mean how is it that YOU NEED MORE BLACK PEOPLE IN PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TV SHOWS but then they insist we arent allowed to enjoy black music? how is one appropriation and the other not?

stupid niggers

Lol, when they use the english language are they appropriating white culture? How about when they read fucking books?

If someone wants me explain ths quote and context I will, but I don't feel like arguing about race today, so don't expect a back and forth.

stereogum.com/1884856/justin-timberlake-upsets-twitter-by-commenting-on-jesse-williams-bet-awards-speech/video/

nah cuz america is the baseline. we arent a culture we are just the 'normies' of the world. its everyone else who is special.

except ice in drinks. that is ours.

nope cuz we forced that on their beautiful noble culture.

What a retarded statement.

Yeah, that's a pretty good explanation, thanks. Futuresex/Lovesounds comes to mind, mixing hip hop and R&B while also using black slang.

I don't really think there's an issue with cultural appropriation as long as its not really done in a mocking way.

It definitely is a thing but to treat it as inherently negative is pretty stupid. Cultural diffusion is impossible to avoid without extreme segregation.

I don't really think it's influences that piss people off, it's when white artists will put on a fake accent and use black cultural slang, while simultaneously not showing respect to the culture these things came from. Like by being openly racist or whatever.

But do people actually do this en masse? The only person I can think of as an example is Iggy Azalea and thankfully it seems as if she's fallen off.

>Futuresex/Lovesounds comes to mind, mixing hip hop and R&B while also using black slang.
Comes to mind as what? Appropriation? Exploitation? Colonialism? Racism?

The album was a collaboration with Timberlake and Timbaland, a black artists, and likely numerous other black writers, producers, musicians as well. Is it now racist for white and black people to make music together? Or is it okay as long as the black artists consciously make "white music" when collaboration with a white artist?

I just can't think a scenario in which JT is somehow a bad person for making the kind of music that he makes. I think it's just fallacy concocted by people who think whites are just devil by default and the only good thing they can possibly do is die.

desu I listen to way more black artists than white artists so I'd have to think about it, but it's definitely something that happens. Elvis immediately springs to mind.

I don't think JT is evil or anything. And it's a good point that it is largerly a collaboration with Timbaland. I would probably still consider it appropriative to a degree, but like, I'm not an expert on cultural appropriation or anything. I think you're kind of reaching/overreacting with the rest of your post. No one is saying people can't collaborate or anything. Also why would you bring up colonialism? Literally a completely different thing.

I meant in contemporary times
In the past yeah this shit was ridiculously rampant I don't think anyone sane would argue that.

>I am not allowed to create music derived partially from a certain culture because I am a certain skin color


Why are liberals and black Americans so spooked?

I mean there's Macklemore. You could also look at the fact that only like, 3 rap album have been nominated for album of the year, and most were made by white people.

But is that really the artist disrespecting the roots of the genre?
Macklemore almost seems disingenuous with the way he goes against it, like he actually (publicly) apologized to Kenny about his album winning over his.

I feel as if the cause is likely similar to the reason why white people have an easier time getting roles in movies: audiences just like to hear/listen to people they can relate to more and sadly race plays a huge part in that.

That sucks but I don't think it is the sinister active disrespect that it's being made out to be.

sounds like an issue with the music awards, artists dont necessarily have control over that, do they?

>Also why would you bring up colonialism? Literally a completely different thing.
lol I'm just sort of mocking the way activists talk and use words like colonialism in every sentence whether it's an appropriate context or not, like the way Jesse Williams used "gentrification" in his speech, as if it's just some big word that means "something that white people do that's bad and stuff, just to remind you that white people are evil."

>No one is saying people can't collaborate or anything.
Right, but if I white person collaborates with a black person who makes "black music" and the white musician gets accused of being a blackface minstrel because of it, then it seems like a no win situation.

That's typicaly what people mean by systemic racism. People have these ingrained beliefs or whatever and it helps create an environment where it's difficult for black people to succeed.

I'm not sure. I'm guessing most of the Grammy voters are old, white, men, so I'm sure that plays into it. My impression was that it's a bunch of seperate issues that play into each other. If black people were rewarded for their culture the same why white people are, I don't think anyone would be complaining.

>like he actually (publicly) apologized to Kenny about his album winning over his.
I think that was genuine, but I think it had to do with realizing that his album was legitimately shitty compared to Kendrick's, which is just God's honest truth, than any kind of white guilt.

Elvis actually gave credit to his black unfluences multiple times.

i dont think thats true. while there are issues on every end, and a lot more than people are willing to admit, the fact that people are complaining about 'appropriation' shows that they arent even aware on many of the issues, and they themselves are exempt from a lot of them.

people complain about the worst issues that effect them. this isnt some minor inconvenience they brought up inbetween black lives matter and kony2012

>hear/listen
hear/watch*

>That's typicaly what people mean by systemic racism. People have these ingrained beliefs or whatever and it helps create an environment where it's difficult for black people to succeed.

I agree with this, but attacking cultural diffusion itself is asinine and does not really solve the issue.

I just don't understand why he had to do it publicly

it's a way to control black people. even though everyone in the entire world is copying them, they still feel weak and that everything is taken from them when really nothing but good has happened. it's to keep them as sheep.

Yeah, but wouldn't gentrification be an appropriate word to use in that context? He's talking about how black styles are being adopted by white people and made palatable to a mainstream (white) audience.

>Right, but if I white person collaborates with a black person who makes "black music" and the white musician gets accused of being a blackface minstrel because of it, then it seems like a no win situation

Is this the case though? I'm not sure. I don't know if I know where people tend to draw the line. I'm sure it varies. I'm sure some people believe any instance of white people performing so called black styles is appropriation, whereas others would restirct that criticism to people like Iggy Azalea. Honestly it's not just a thing that white people do. I'd say Drake adopting dancehall influences and a fake patois would also count as appropriation. He's fucking Candian lol

How about stop appropriating my culture by using the internet to whine about celebrity.

Stop appropriating my language with your awful grammar ESL-kun

Elvis was also openly racist though.

people complain about the worst issues that effect them

That's not really true though. If you've spent any time with any type of activist group you'd know that they focus on multiple issues at once. Off the top of my head issues black activists seem to focus on include: police brutality and racial profiling, school to prison pipeline, food deserts and lack of access to resources, lack of representation in mainstream media, etc.

fucking this!

>our music
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? You can't take credit for making that music

The beef with Elvis had nothing to do with him mocking or disrespecting rock-n-roll. It's because he was successful and was known as the king of rock-n-roll, while black rock-n-roll artists remained unknown. That didn't last very long though. There were several successful black rock-n-roll artists by the 60s. So it's kind of stupid to keep bringing it up like it's still an issue.

I mean maybe if he was using gentrification in a metaphorical context, then fine, but it seems pretty consistent with how I've seen activists on Twitter and Youtube use words like that so I don't know.

>I don't know if I know where people tend to draw the line. I'm sure it varies. I'm sure some people believe any instance of white people performing so called black styles is appropriation, whereas others would restirct that criticism to people like Iggy Azalea.
It does and they do, but reading those Tweets and seeing people go hard on JT of all people, it seems like the former is becoming more and more acceptable, and I think that's sad.

>Sup Forumstards think cultural appropriation doesn't exist and isn't a serious problem

No surprises here.

Just because cultural appropriation exists doesn't mean blacks are victims of it.

A white guy singing with a drum machine is not the same thing as wearing a native American headdress to a frat party. Sorry.

>That nu-male comment section

Stereogum is a fucking disease

this is one of the greatest non-issues of our age, nobody has ownership over culture
this kind of thinking only leads to a bigger racial divide

Drake's mother is white and he grew up a rich child actor yet he's allowed to put on his fake ass hood nigga accent when he raps?

The left is so fucking toxic

I love when these degenerates chimp out, reminds the majority of the country that they will never peacefully assimilate into our culture and are inherently inferior

Even when nu-males like Justin try to be down with the cause, they'll eventually get bitten in the end.

These people hates whites, period. They will never be on your side. Never. They want to be be above you, not equal.

you're a racist, simple and plain

>implying there's anything wrong with that

lol

not really.
just that you're probably too chicken shit too out yourself irl. your parents would probably be disgusted.
you hide from who you are, and can only be yourself on the internet because you are a wuss.

>just that you're probably too chicken shit too out yourself irl

Blacks are violent, of course I wouldn't say this to their face. No shit, they casually smack around women for fucks sake.

> and can only be yourself on the internet because you are a wuss.

yeah bruh, im not a TRUE violent gorilla am i right nigga

just go and join the kkk

Everyone shut up and watch this

>BETAwards
>BETA

Really makes you think

>he can't think of a comeback

If I'm right, his mother's an Ashkenazic Jew, who are arguably not entirely white.

Then again, this might be b8.

They are both the same insofar as that they are both non-issues.

>slippery slope in the second paragraph
Stopped reading

How about your worry over things that actually happen

Are these people even able to argue their case or they just yell "racist" this "ad-homenian" that

It becomes an issue because black music, that has its earliest roots created by black artists, was in the past ridiculed, not taken seriously and literally used to be referred to white people as black music. Jazz, R&B, Hip-hop. Then once it becomes popular, white artists try to incorporate that sound. This is not the same because more often than not, this is the same racist culture just mimicking it for fame and money. Then these white artists are mostly the ones noticed and credited, leaving the real artists in the dust. JT isn't necessarily "authentic". R&B existed before JT, he only got big because he was in *Nsync, had the voice, and had Timbaland for Future Sex. You have white rappers all over the radio in these weird ass remixes when compared to actual black artists of merit, these rappers or artists are nothing. It's racism embedded. They want a pretty white face because a black artist is too "thug". Like how, in mainstream recognition, are there more white artists than black artists, especially in a genre essentially founded by black artists and the music itself based on black ideas, attitudes, and concepts?
It's not only with JT, though. I hear enough of fucking G Eazy or whatever and he's god awful. And for example, when a normie or someone mainstream thinks jazz they probably think Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin. Why? They had nothing new to bring to the table really. Sinatra even had a history of gang violence and that's not what people think about. Yet when it's someone black, there's an automatic attempt to make them look like some evil gang banging "thug" unless they're some perfect person with a completely clean history and even then people will pick apart everything they do.

"Cultural appropriation" is literally the advent of thoughtcrime. It's sad to me that critical theory turned into this dystopian hell somewhere on US campuses.

Racism today isn't so outright and obvious as it used to be. We live in a time of subconscious and passive aggressive racism because nobody wants to look racist, even if they are and/or don't even realize it.

I hope white retards stop pumping money into nigger music so they can come begging for whites to buy their music again like Mugabe's begging white farmers to come back to Zimbabwe.

But those are the extent of my thoughts on the subject

It's almost as if there's a very specific type of ethnic group that controls 99% of the media and is pushing it on society

Prob just a coincidence though

True

I think cultural appropriation is good because it brings cultures closer together.

>dream catcher created by Native American beliefs, used as unity within the people
>past racist white people mock it
>start seeing white people getting tattoos of it and dangling it off rear view mirror
>implying there's nothing wrong with this

It's like a classic white move to take from a culture and make it their own / call it their own.

not an argument. dumb sjw

But why is it wrong?

>a classic white move
No, that's how humans work. Have you ever read any history book? At some point roman women wore blond wigs made from hair that came from somewhere north of the limes, so fucking what?

Btw, are you from the US? Just curious. Because I think this is something that originated in US politics.

there are way more white than black people in america, it's only natural that the mainstream's attention is more focused on white culture since, as you have posited, black genres are made of black ideas, attitudes and concepts.

But there is nothing wrong with this. White people are not a homogeneous blob. The people who mocked dream catchers are probably not the same who think they look cool now.

to be honest, i dont feel like wasting my energy on you.
you actually identify with being a racist, yet you only can be honest about it on the internet because you are too afraid too fight your cause in the real world. you just sit there alone behind your computer, spreading your hate. I'm sorry, but I can't help you.

>Cultural appropriation is defined as a “sociological concept which views the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of a different culture as a largely negative phenomenon”.
>picking and choosing which parts of a culture you want to participate in, often reducing significant cultural wear or styles to fashion statements.
If someone is incorporating something from another culture, it ultimately comes down to "why?" Like it's almost meaningless for someone who grew up wealthy, dealt with no prejudice or oppression or anything to use something from a culture that faces that. I'm not Native American so I don't see any real reason to use things from their culture because I'm not Native American? I think people think they can use these things because it has no effect on them, but fail to see the negative effects it has on the culture being borrowed or taken from.

Idk about all that but because it happened in the past doesn't make it justified. Yeah, I'm in the US. It seems like a bigger problem here as this country is "supposed" to be so accepting, home of the free, blah blah, but it's all a facade that people cling to.

>white people create Sup Forums
>past dumb nigs mock us
>start seeing libkeks and sjws all over Sup Forums
>implying theres nothing wrong with this

Are bands like Body Count and Suffocation guilty of the evil bogeyman buzzword of cultural appropriation?

True, but ignorance doesn't excuse it.
Do you think the Red Skins should keep their name out of "preservation of baseball history" and what not?
Do you kind of see what I'm getting at?
People can't just jump onto some "cultural trend" they know nothing about just because it pleases them.

But hang on a minute here. I've always considered myself a pretty progressive and accepting person, but one thing about cultural oppression always nags at me.
Why is it only ever coloured people who seem upset?
I'm an Irishfag living in Canada, where loads of people of different races usurp all sorts of cultural symbols for St. Patrick's day and so forth, and couldn't be bothered any less by it.

a.k.a you dont have an actual argument and you know you're wrong.
>spread hate
id be hard pressed to find someone that believes "cultural appropriation" is a thing that is not extremely hateful

It's all about respecting people and their culture, but Sup Forums isn't known for being considerate and respectful, really.

>'m not Native American so I don't see any real reason to use things from their culture because I'm not Native American?
I'm sorry, but the idea that everyone should stay in their little box is not a recipe for a working society. Why can't I adopt things I like?

>Yeah, I'm in the US. It seems like a bigger problem here as this country is "supposed" to be so accepting, home of the free, blah blah, but it's all a facade that people cling to.
I honestly think you people are haunted by some ideas from the Frankfurt school that got turned on their head. Feel-good-critical theory.

> because black music, that has its earliest roots created by black artists
Again, here's that false assumption that "black music" has no absolutely no roots in European music. Did African Americans invent the chromatic scale? Did they invent 4/4? Did they invent the guitar or the piano? Did they invent the English language? No? Well then the "earliest roots" of music are in fact European.

>Then once it becomes popular, white artists try to incorporate that sound.
In the case of rock-n-roll, white artists made it popular.

In the case of other genres, white people haven't actively participated as much as they have with rock-n-roll, but black people are only about 12% of the population in America, so something can't really be popular in America unless it's popular with the majority, which in America's case, is white people.

Cultural appropriation as a concept is stupid sjw retardation

Why do they ask for multiculturalism but then get mad if whites try to adopt other cultures?

I mean yeah you might not feel bothered by it, St Patrick's is basically normalized. Idk i think it's fucked that days like St Patrick's and Cinco de Mayo are only drinking holidays and not celebrated for their actual meaning and significance.

Its funny how "we are one race" when its convenient for them but if some white person wants to sing black ""music"" its suddenly wrong

>And for example, when a normie or someone mainstream thinks jazz they probably think Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin
More bullshit. Nobody associates those artists with jazz.

I swear, every single sentence of your post is either a fallacy or a lie.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

I've heard people complain about black history month, saying black history is just American history, and I feel like music is very much the same. Hip hop is American culture.

>there are more white prove in America so we should be able to take what we want and get the credit

There's a difference between appreciation and appropriation

I meant to include in my original post that I acknowledge that the Irish were pretty hard done by for some time and all that, but I wasn't, and I don't think anybody is doing anything out of wrath, just trying to enjoy what they perceive as aspects of my culture.
I absolutely find nothing wrong with that.

culture isn't intellectual property, you can't "take it" you goddamn retard

What the hell, if you feel bothered that one fucking old and one not fucking old holiday have lost their original significance you might hang yourself immediately. How do you even deal with life? Do you have no resilience?

youre petty as fuck holy shit. most people dont care that you claim the egytians, greeks, chinese, etc civilizations as your own why should you throw a fit just because whites take credit for some music people barely listen to anymore. grow up

no really. i have lots of arguments.
i just dont feel like sharing them with you, i dont have to.

>id be hard pressed to find someone that believes "cultural appropriation" is a thing that is not extremely hateful.

bye user, i still wish the best for you.

so what? that doesnt excuse yours...

which is why this "grime" shit needs to be stopped as soon as possible

>i have lots of arguments.
>i just dont feel like sharing them with you, i dont have to.
well thats convenient

You mean there are people out there appropriating culture with malicious intent?
People running around with dreads and shouting "Ha, stole your hairstyle suckers!", or what?
Or do you think that suddenly people will forget about historical background in general and believe everything is made by white people? I don't get this concept at all.

i dont get it, segregation was literally satan but they want it back?

>often reducing significant cultural wear or styles to fashion statements.
I still don't see how this is bad.

I plain fail to see how it depreciates any cultural ties a group might have to whatever it is is being appropriated.

All it does is create a new cultural context for a group who previously did not know or care about the item. Cultures interact and change over time, just like anything else. And they do lose their significance, but that's got more to do generations losing touch or questioning those values and there's nothing wrong or unnatural with that.

Not the point at all.

White people, being the majority in America, determine what's popular there. This is true of any majority and has nothing to do with whiteness.

Also, white people didn't "take" anything from black people. American music is the product of American culture and all subcultures within. Nothing you consider "black music" would exist without white people nor would it have been created anywhere but America.

They don't want white people profiting off their music but fail to realize that'll alienate themselves in the long run. They only see the immediate benefits.

yes but im sincere.
it's really tiring, and we'll probably end up were we started, right?

> id be hard pressed to find someone that believes "cultural appropriation" is a thing that is not extremely hateful

also, i think their hate doesnt excuse yours.

you seem to be conveniently ignoring the points i make.

imo hate has never solved anything user.

>American music is the product of American culture and all subcultures within

like how the blues is a product of slavery right?

>when they read books
wut

>most people dont care that you claim the egytians, greeks, chinese, etc
lol, I forgot about that. Funny how blacks literally try to steal history then call foul when white people steal their twitter memes.