Tfw you love Swans but you start thinking what if Gira really did it

>tfw you love Swans but you start thinking what if Gira really did it

Don't really care tbqhw/ufam

But he didn't, so it's fine

A: No
B: Why does it matter?

Look in his eyes and tell me he's a rapist

Has this been the most Reddit day ever? Jesus H.

Are you like posting this in every thread or something?

even if he did (which he didn't, it's a fact lul) i wouldn't care at all unless it somehow affected the music

Frankly I don't care whether he did it or not.
They like to say there is one kind of rape but that's not true.
Sure one party doesn't want it but what's happening in the
suspects head matters too. I think he was probably very
sensual and passionate but misunderstanding. Intercourse
with a drunk person can be seen as normal happy sex
while both may not be comfortable in a sober way. He made
a mistake and took the wrong message so no he doesn't have
the eyes of a rapist.

Did you literally just excuse every single drunk man who has ever raped a woman? Kill yourself. Seriously.

Yeah he didn't cuz he said so! Because rapists are known for being the kind of people that would ever own up to their actions and not total cowards!

I'm not saying he did it but there's no way to say it's a fact that he didn't. No one admits to rape.

EXTREME MUSIC
EXTREME PEOPLE

>tfw you realize all his songs have been autobiographical

Why do you faggots just automatically believe women? They're people too, they can pieces of shit.

The same reason you automatically believe Gira

because he's not a crazy shit?

Michael Jackson was probably a pedo, and Sid Vicious might have stabbed his girlfriend. I've stopped caring about the bad things musicians have done a long time ago, and just look at the music they make.

Thank you for posting this. This really puts me at ease. I can go back to listening to Swans in peace

>h-h-he seemed like such a nice guy, there's no way he did it!!!

Sociopaths tend to build up a facade.

What a coincidence that the women in these scenarios are always "crazy" huh...

Did I ever say or imply that I automatically believe women? No. That poster literally made an excuse for men who rape people and the world would be a better place without people like him. Because he's probably a rapist. Why else would anyone say "you know, some rapists are okay, rape isn't that bad" other than if they were a rapist themselves?

>if

Look I've said it before but I'll say it again: to deny any rape allegation is demying the existance of rape. Rape serves as a way for men to control women as there are a majority of men who feel they need to control women to feel better themselves. Every rape allegation is a true allegation as for every allegation made more than ten don't go noted, so it's justice.

lmao for real I can't believe that post at the bottom talking about how everyone believing Gira is somehow evidence that he didn't do it. And then dumbfucks like are like "why do you automatically believe women?" They're so quick to believe the man and call the woman a liar, but don't you dare even insinuate the guy might have done it!

no, but some women can be crazy you fucking retard. Kill yourself.

>B-but she made a song about it! That obviously means it didn't happen!

"She was lying! She admitted it! Oh screenshots? Proof that she admitted no intercourse happened other than straight up hearsay which means absolutely nothing? Oh uhhhhhhhhhhh idk talk to you later!"

I've suspended judgement on the matter. We're never going to know definitively anyway.

Mentally ill women are far more likely to be victims of violence than to be perpetuating it (false accusations being considered violence here)

Are a bunch of alt-right virgins on this board who think women owe them sex and would probably rape someone if they knew they could get away with it the best judges of this kind of situation? Idk.

How can you say that false accusations count as violence? What evidence do you have to back up this statement?

False accusations can send someone to jail (though rarely, usually only black men) and rapists are typically subjected to violence in jail.

How can you prove that people who are mentally ill are less likely to make false accusations?

Larkin is more likely to have been raped than to falsely accuse someone. Those Facebook posts mean nothing as they contain absolutely no trace of any proof of legitimacy. All were made by people who have extreme biases and will say anything, true or not, to defend the person who cashed their paycheck.

I honestly stopped listening to his music and sold all my albums. If there's even the slightest possibility he raped her, I don't wish to contribute to him in case. There's plenty of other music I could be listening to instead of his.

Why is she more likely to have been raped than to have falsely accused someone?

i can't even tell who is trolling and who is genuinely against gira anymore

congrats on not being an actual music fan, then

also nice job lining your pockets with rape money lmao

Because there are vastly more rapes than there are false accusations? That should just be common sense to start with, and all reputable studies show the rate of false accusations for rape is about the same as every other crime, which makes the fact that there are so many people who automatically leap to it as a conclusion pretty fucked. Rape is just by its nature more difficult to prove and unlikely to have witnesses.

now connect this statement to her being mentally ill

i doubt that mentally ill women have a higher chance of filing a true rape accusation than a false one

also, larkin grimm didn't even file a report to the police (apparently because she didn't want to ruin his career), so she is out of the statistics entirely

it is purely a marketing gimmick and attention whoring to get into the limelight

>i doubt that mentally ill women have a higher chance of filing a true rape accusation than a false one
That's because you misunderstand that "mentally ill" is a pretty broad spectrum that can encompass many different things and that, across the board, those mentally ill people are far more likely to be the victims of crimes than the perpetrators of them, as said by that other user and as backed up by statistics.

>also, larkin grimm didn't even file a report to the police (apparently because she didn't want to ruin his career), so she is out of the statistics entirely
What does this have to do with anything?

>it is purely a marketing gimmick and attention whoring to get into the limelight
The fact that you and other people think anyone does this as a fucking "marketing gimmick" is mind boggling and sexist as fuck. You think this has made her life better in any way? You think people in her personal life aren't calling her a liar just like people online? You think she isn't receiving hate and death threats from Gira's fans? You think it isn't a massive fucking stigma to be thought of as a rape victim even from the people who DO believe you? Fuck off.

...

> nice job lining your pockets with rape money lmao

kekked

>and as backed up by statistics.
literally 0 proof in this thread, and as i said no statistics for accusations not filed by the police

>What does this have to do with anything?
statistics for rape are only valid for cases that are filed to the police
cases which are not, we have no statistics to show whether they can be true or not
if i accused you of rape literally right now, this case can't be supported by any statistics

>The fact that you and other people think anyone does this as a fucking "marketing gimmick" is mind boggling and sexist as fuck.
you are the market she is going after

> You think this has made her life better in any way? You think people in her personal life aren't calling her a liar just like people online? You think she isn't receiving hate and death threats from Gira's fans? You think it isn't a massive fucking stigma to be thought of as a rape victim even from the people who DO believe you? Fuck off.
yes, that's what being mentally ill means
you fuck off back to tumblr friendo

>to deny any rape allegation is demying the existance of rape
denial of rape is not the same as withholding judgement until there is sufficient evidence to justify the accusation.

>Rape serves as a way for men to control women as there are a majority of men who feel they need to control women to feel better themselves
rape accusations, on the other hand, are a way for women to regain a feeling of control in a world where their anxieties about toxic masculinity are perpetually reaffirmed by the media to the point of delusion. Rape culture is a malicious narrative that not only blurs the line between regretted consensual sex and actual instances of sexual violence, but it also means that these accusations will ruin the lives of millions of men, regardless of whether the accusation is true or not.

>Every rape allegation is a true allegation as for every allegation made more than ten don't go noted, so it's justice.
so what you're saying is that ruining a man's future, eduction, social life, job prospects and ability to participate in society as anything other than a monster, even if he didn't actually commit rape, is wholly justified?

Whomever took the time to collect and create this rape apologia is fucking creepy as shit.

You seem to think that false rape accusations occur far more often than they actually do.

>Rape serves as a way for men to control women as there are a majority of men who feel they need to control women to feel better themselves. Every rape allegation is a true allegation as for every allegation made more than ten don't go noted, so it's justice.

This is fucking deranged.

If he raped that cunt it only makes his music better to me . Every nigger loving SJW deserves to be raped.

Can you Imagine Gira raping the slut while screaming " YOU FUCKING PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK. That would be so based

Go back to Sup Forums.

Sorry hun, it's not women who have positions of power, do you know how many judgements are made by women? Oh next to none, so who are making them, oh middle aged men who would have guessed. Even the "judgement" that's done is in favour of men and the women is accused of being a slut, hence every rape accusation is a just one and brave as the woman is rebelling against an unjust situation knowing full well she'll be hated by MRAs for it, like what happened with Grimm.

Yeah the patriarchal society we live in is deranged.

lmao this is shitty bait, you're too obvious

>mfw when I strongly identify with the left and progressive thought
>these are the people I'm working with

So innocent men should be punished for all the guilty men that aren't

in what universe is this ethically acceptable because god knows I don't ever want to be there.

>So innocent men should be punished for all the guilty men that aren't
That's literally what they're saying, and they see no problem with it.

I am a right wing person but yeah its funny how liberal tradition discovered this amazing principle of presumption of innocence, the single most important idea in legal theory, period, and as soon as it doesn't fit what they view the world is like they happily ditch it

Yeah the "innocent men" (v few are) should, it's called justice for a reason. If they raped a woman they need to face the law, as I said for the odd case that genuinely is false (1/1000000) it's worth it.

That's clearly bait.

that would make his music even more enjoyable

If I reported you raped me today would you agree with being jailed because of the slightest chance that it actually happened?

daily reminder that some people actually do believe this

I'm a woman so that can't happen to you.

>tfw a female teacher has sex with 30 students and gets treated better than a man who's merely been accused of rape

but I am only 12 user

The burden of proof is on her m8

And what proof do you expect her to provide.

that's why you are supposed to believe gira
there's no proof
it's presumption of innocence, a pretty basic concept

So you're saying that any woman who got raped and didn't go to the hospital immediately afterwards shouldn't be trusted when she says she was raped?

nobody is trolling because this board is a bunch of tumblr nu-males

>So you're saying that any woman who got raped and didn't go to the hospital immediately afterwards shouldn't be trusted when she says she was raped?
exactly?
that's how law works user

definitely some trolls here, but yeah you're right

>Sorry hun

So you're cool with having the vast vast majority of rapists get away scot free? That's a bit fucked up user.

Not if she wants to take legal action, no.

its a fucked up world man
but jailing innocents is more fucked up than freeing criminals

Reminder that 92% of men are rapists.

>So you're cool with having the vast vast majority of rapists get away scot free?
no, but im cooler with it compared to innocent people getting jailed with zero proof
it's how the world works
presumption of innocence is the way of law, without proof your accusations mean literally nothing

97% of rapists see NO jail time. Even the most liberal studies show that "unfounded" (NOT false) rape accusations are extremely rare (we're talking 8% here).

You live in a world where women are constantly falsely accusing men of rape. That's just not reality.

How come your type doesn't rally against protection of accusations of other crimes? Why is it that men accused of raping women get the most attention? Hmmmm....

>97% of rapists see NO jail time. Even the most liberal studies show that "unfounded" (NOT false) rape accusations are extremely rare (we're talking 8% here).
try to refute my point next time

>You live in a world where women are constantly falsely accusing men of rape. That's just not reality.
try to refute my point next time

>How come your type doesn't rally against protection of accusations of other crimes? Why is it that men accused of raping women get the most attention? Hmmmm....
what type of person am i? im giving no type of attention to anything, ive never given a shit about politics. however, ive studied basic logic and my brother is a lawyer, so i know quite a lot about law

the false accusation rate could be 0.00001% for that matter
an innocent person getting jailed is morally more unacceptable than a criminal getting away with nothing
this is one of the fundamental points in which modern law is based on and you can't refute this
but you can try, so go ahead

exactly. do you understand that presumption of innocence is key factor in our law system, right?

rape and sexual assault is notoriously hard to "prove," I'd assume you know this considering you've studied "basic logic and your brother is a lawyer"

statistics show false rape accusations are exceptionally rare and that most rapist don't see a day in jail. this is because of the way the justice system works.

it's a good and bad thing, on one hand, we don't try people unfairly, unfortunately, a lost of scumbags get off

i dont believe you're here to argue the integrity of the law or anything like that though, you'll point to statistics when topics like rape are brought up, but what does it mean?

if we're ever gonna progress past this, we need less ppl like you

Rape, for some reason, is considered some weird special crime that is worse that anything that can be done to a person now, so people like him think it's morally acceptable to suspend the presumption of innocence for this particular crime. Of course this is reprehensible, retarded, and generally repugnant to the moral sensibilities of anyone that isn't insane.

>rape and sexual assault is notoriously hard to "prove," I'd assume you know this considering you've studied "basic logic and your brother is a lawyer"
yes it is and ive never claimed the opposite

>statistics show false rape accusations are exceptionally rare and that most rapist don't see a day in jail. this is because of the way the justice system works.
exactly

>it's a good and bad thing, on one hand, we don't try people unfairly, unfortunately, a lost of scumbags get off
exactly again, it's cool that you are agreeing with me

>i dont believe you're here to argue the integrity of the law or anything like that though
so you are here to say that presumption of innocence is a bad thing? well, common sense doesnt agree with you friendo
this argument is over famalam

political correctness carries more strength than presumption of innocence nowadays, no wonder

Presumption of innocence is critical to a free society.

But because rape is so hard to prove, we can't really "attack" it via law, though we should try.

In general, work must be done to educate and prevent these things. It's impossible for any given case to say who is "truthful" or not...

but what's gained by spending time slamming and shaming someone like Larkin? It's highly unlikely, statistically, that she's one of the few who are "faking" it... but this stuff comes up ANYTIME a male is accused.

If you care about justice, would you not care about the general idea that, without incarcerating people without evidence, we ought to work towards stopping and preventing rape.

Gira isn't on trail. He's not in court. Hell, I could even give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that maybe he didn't understand that what he did was wrong... but we gotta have an open dialogue about this shit, ya know?

i agree that rape should be prevented, along with many other crimes
i never stated i was encouraging rape

this is moving the goalposts though, this doesn't change the fact that i should assume gira is innocent, because common sense demands so

im not shaming either party here, but i WILL be shaming people who assume gira is guilty, because it's flawed logic.
though this does result in me shaming grimm, because she wants us to assume gira is the one at guilt, thus breaking the first rule ive set

in the end i dont care about larkin grimm
i also don't care about michael gira, only his music is important for me

anyways i wont be wasting time here anymore, we are just going round and round
have a good day m'lady

Honestly most of Sup Forums will try to convince you that there's no possible way he did it and Larkin is a filthy lying whore, but the fact is there is no way to prove it either way.

Gira's friends/family can say what they want, and Larkin can cash in with songs and shit but there were no cameras, and there were no eye-witnesses, so unless Larkin actually ADMITS she was lying, then there can't be proof either way.

That said, even though I felt weird at first, I have realized that whether or not Gira did it has not affected my enjoyment of his/Swans' music, so I don't really care what actually happened. It seems like that's how most rational people feel as well. For example, Fantano praised the shit out of The Glowing Man, gave it one of his highest scores of the year, and didn't say a word about Larkin/the allegations. And that's because he's a fan of Swans' MUSIC, not a fan of Gira's personal life.

Why not take a more neutral position? That you don't know if Gira is guilty or not? As le law man, that's no admission of guilt.

But then you called me a woman for daring to take a position that isn't blaming Larkin.

wew lad this thread, new commenter here

lets clear things up

>thousands of rapes of women go unreported and without legal sentencing
>rape and 'rape culture' is definitely entwined with patriarchy and ideas of masculinity. defining it in terms of power is accurate
>false rape accusations happen at an incredibly small rate, especially compared with actual rape
>false rape accusations are bad and deserve punishment, i don't agree with locking up innocent men, (i'm also a prison abolitionist, but im making this point in the context of prisons existing)

roman polanski, michael gira, bill cosby, whoever else - sexually deviant stars should be boycotted and condemned.

the onus is on teaching MEN not to rape, not teaching women rape prevention, which is heavily paternal, removing their autonomy. if a girl wants to go to a party in a bra and panties she should be able to without the fear of sexual assault or rape, that is a no brainer

the fact that false rape accusations even remotely features in the larger discussion about rape shows just how dominant the patriarchal voice is. false murder or theft accusations do not feature in the general discussion of those crimes.

i can't help but think that if you disagree with this you have literally spent far too much time being 'redpilled' or whatever, than actually developing compassion, empathy and listening to and understanding the lived experience of others in the world.

signing off, straight white male with a massive dick who has had consensual sex with lots of girls

sexually abusive not sexually deviant I meant.

>teach criminals not to commit crimes
this is a meme

>Why not take a more neutral position? That you don't know if Gira is guilty or not? As le law man, that's no admission of guilt.
presumption of innocence is the most neutral one can get
i of course don't know whether gira is guilty or not
im agnostic, so i know very well when to take neutrality and when to not

>But then you called me a woman for daring to take a position that isn't blaming Larkin.
im just using a meme m8
do you really think the m'lady phrase has only been used against women? if this is the last thing you can criticize about my argument you don't really need to try anymore

I would have been more surprised if Gira did not rape at all desu.

Holy shit, this better be bait.

why do you even care? i really doubt that Gira raped Larkim. Did you see that bitch? She's ugly as shit. She isnt even rape worthy.

rape is a complicated crime that is affected by sex education and our societies view of sex. there are numerous things that can be done to raise greater awareness of perceived rape culture

lmao why did I bother venturing off of /fa/ and /lit/

the majority of men who browse Sup Forums are pathetic.

can't believe ive had so many 'discussions' with incels

Sure, open a dialog, but not on a case by case basis. As of now Gira is innocent and shouldnt be slandered.

what about you go back to tumblr?

>tumblr
Why do we let women on Sup Forums?
Women never have good opinions
Also don't remove my autonomy by preventing me from raping shitlord

ITT: Trolls trolling trolls

>standard feminist lines that convince no one because there is no evidence for any of the claims presented

Why bother?

>xe browses /fa/
>calls the rest of Sup Forums pathetic

kek

Women shouldnt be allowed on Sup Forums but its impossible to keep them away from here

I see you claiming to be neutral but here you are taking a pro-Gira approach in this thread, unless I'm wrong. I'll gladly apologize and admit I'm mistaken.

As for the meme argument, I'll quote another meme: ironic sexism is still sexism.