Whats the difference between goth and post punk?

is it that goth is more angry whereas post punk is more romantic? is it the other way around? is there even a real distinction?

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Goth is darker and slower.

goth is for depressed cunts, post punk(most of it) is for cool motherfuckers

goth isnt a style of music dipshit its a fashion. your pic related is an post punk/new wave band who dress in goth fashion like how every other act you term as goth is ( yaknow, unless there not playing post-punk, like fucking marlyn manson who he also call goth but is in fact an industrial metal musician who dresses as goth)

A lot of post punk is goth.

and that's how you spot a the cure fan

case in point...

Go ask Brandon Stosuy, he's the expert on what is goth.

Marilyn Manson is more black metal in regards to culture than goth. he goes for shock value (with corpse paint type makeup and anti-religious shit)

B8

Manson is shock rock glam metal.

youtube.com/watch?v=AbiCIwAAIP4

90s Swans is peak goth.

>shock rock glam metal

better way of saying what i was trying to say

you dont consider black metal people goths? if anything its the 90's stage of evolution for goth. Also goth came with/from punk, i dont really think shock value is only typical to 90's black metal

youtube.com/watch?v=ywEcW-uZjts

Black metal is goth.

m8 is this b8?

manson came in with bands such as NIN and rammestein, all these bands sound and look somewhat alike and all come under the umbrella of industrial metal music.
shock rock is literally a buzzword

Maybe the great annihilator

Goth is more a style and Post-Punk is more a certain era of music, a zeitgeist. They can overlap.

Manson's band is more rooted in 80s metal, the industrial influence was purely Reznor's.

Best goth album.

i mean, goth still existed in the 90's to some extent, but i wouldn't have ever called Norwegian black metal kids goth. you're kinda right though, it is an evolution

Neofolk was the goth of the 90s, for the most part.

Yeah Goth fell off into cheesy crap like Blutengel or Bloody, Dead & Sexy after the '80s.

The Soft Moon seem to a good goth/post punk revival band.

Insides
youtu.be/jILV2bOemmg

It was also industrial / industrial rock too, and a bunch of other genres.

no

It's listened to by a lot of goths.

wouldnt reznor also be rooted in 80's metal?

i think when manson deicded he was going to be influenced by reznor then manson became a part of industrial metal.

i mean if something sounds like industrial metal in a period where industrial metal as a scene is existing, wouldnt we have to say that this something is industrial metal also

that doesnt make it goth

it does a bit, defiantly in the context of today

There's always been good industrial if you know where to look. Good stuff on the Tympanik label.

Reznor was more influenced by industrial, and synth pop like Gary Numan, and also David Bowie.

Grouper is goth.

...

Goth is just post-punk with spooky skelingtons.

I dunno what goth and post punk is: the thread

Dude you're so hilariously wrong.

The only connection between Manson and black metal is that during the mixing of Antichrist Superstar, he watched Begotten on repeat, which is a movie that MIGHT have been inspired by the apparition of the 2nd wave of black metal.

The reason why Manson wears corpse paint is as a reference to Alice Cooper, and as a morbid parody of the heavy makeup put on by models and glam rockers.

NOT as a reference to black metal.

Same goes for his use of shocking imagery: he was just doing what soccer moms thought all shock rockers were doing at the time, as a commentary on the state of glam rock and the public's perception of it.

Black Metal dudes do it just for theatrics within their own scene, not as a social commentary.

And let's not forget that Laveyan satanism has absolutely nothing to do with the breed of mystical satanism that appeared in Norway. As for the 1st wave of BM, none of them were seriously into this shit.

If you want to discuss the connections between the goth scene of the late 80s and the 2nd wave of BM, they're tenuous at best; some 2nd wave guys said they listened to some goth rock or new-romantic shit but it's hard to tell how it influenced them and their imagery since most of it is merely a more radical take on crust punk and thrash/doom metal aesthetics.

Gothic Black Metal exists but it only appeared in the LATE 90s with bands like Cradle of Filth, AFTER goth became a mainstream subculture, and as a combination of goth rock/neoclassical shit and BM.

Manson never wanted to be influenced by Reznor.
Manson's first two albums were mostly inspired by White Zombie and Alice Cooper. The industrial rock sound was Trent's idea and Manson originally fought against it.

BUT he was also a fan of Gary Newman: he covered Down in the Park, and Cryptorchid was originally written as a pastiche of that song before Trent fucked with it.

And on Mechanical Animals there are blatant references to Bowie all the time.

So ironically, Manson was more influenced by New Wave when Trent WASN'T there to mix his albums.

Post-punk is people say they listen to instead of goth because it doesn't make them look like an "emo faggot".

But yes, there are miniscule differences.

Black metal is more rooted in hardcore.

crust punk, to be precise.
I'm pretty sure the only difference is the amount of eyeliner and aquanet used by the musicians.

>crust punk, to be precise.

D-Beat

About Black Metal, you could rightfully say that it's gothic, but in a very specific way:

Post-punk/goth rock is inspired by pre-raphaelite art and dark romanticism, which itself was inspired by "gothic" medieval art.

Black Metal is inspired directly by gothic medieval shit, to the point where it draws a lot from a caricatural vision of pre-christian barbarians (wisigoths, ostrogoths, all that shit) as seen through a catholic filter.

So there's like four layers of goth here, historically speaking.

>D-Beat

Motörhead with shitty production.

Which has only become more and more obvious with each new Darkthrone album.

>I'm pretty sure the only difference is the amount of eyeliner and aquanet used by the musicians.

Mark E. Smith didn't wear eyeliner so The Fall isn't goth

Nick Cave wore eyeliner so The Birthday Party is goth

damn

Both are inspired by German expressionism to a degree tho.

It's not just aesthetic, there are certain chords, or chord progressions that are typical of goth.

For instance, Night on Bald Mountain is goth.

Finally, a goth thread
Post your favourite songs

youtube.com/watch?v=gdSwqTuCICg

youtube.com/watch?v=yB7skSswqDY&list=PLBDEAA5C068C7E771

the birthday party (specifically the album junkyard and the single release the bats) is often considered to be a proto gothic rock act user

Prayers on Fire too

>the birthday party (specifically the album junkyard and the single release the bats) is often considered to be a proto gothic rock act user

Junkyard is the greatest post-punk album.
youtube.com/watch?v=mJ1pJzjsPco

The way the two guitars interact with each other on this song, in stereo, is probably one of the coolest things I've heard in music.

They are not playing on each other, they're playing around each other's notes, like two magnets repelling but drifting close.

>Post your favourite songs

Christian Death - Tales of Innocence
youtu.be/bcohcmNXVf8

Even the drummer isn't keeping the time.

Tracy Pew's bass is the only thing that holds this song together.

Any vocalists similar to Nick Caves Birthday Party years? I just really like how dirty and seedy the Birthday Party is but haven't really found anything like it, which is weird seeing how many bands they've influenced

I can't find any.

Cave during that era sounds like a criminally-insane escaped mental patient, which is awesome.

I love that by all accounts, Pew only ever picked up an instrument when he was playing with the band. No one ever saw him practice and he would just leave his guitar wherever. Man was a savant.

He came up with so many catchy basslines. He was the driving force of the band.